have they still left their influence on the processes inside the country, let's talk further with us live, political scientist oleg seak, congratulations, my congratulations, i'm glad to see rinat akhmetov in the last interview, i'll note, it happened through one of the messengers, he wasn't there via skype or live, he said that he is not an oligarch, do you agree with his words, taking into account his current influence on the processes in ukraine or the lack of this influence, well, first of all, he needs to say that he is not an oligarch, since there is a law on oligarchization and most of it assets, they are one way or another on stock exchanges in the west, respectively, if he were to admit that he is an oligarch, then this would have negative consequences for the capitalization of the company. if we talk about whether he is really an oligarch or not, until recently he really fell under the classic definition of a doctor of enrichment at the expense of the presence of political influences , the presence of media assets, etc., so we can really

say now that akhmetov is no longer an oligarch in the classical sense , but he still leaves certain of his wider influences than, say, the great businessman no in general, the process of further archification is taking place now due to the russian-ukrainian war already before the war it started organically because these old industries etc. were losing their weight akhmetov was one of many who could survive as long as he had monopolies of critical critical energy infrastructure but the war is now making its adjustments and russia is striking precisely at the objects of the energy infrastructure more a significant part of which belongs to the group of children and accordingly akhmetov is really now one of those who is losing from the russian strikes uhu, well, first of all , he said that he was never an oligarch , this is an equally important detail, here you have already partially answered this question, that in fact, in fact

, he was like that, and well, again anyway, returning to the title at the end of the time post, where the interview with akhmetov was published, ukraine got rid of this quote from the oligarchs because of the war, if we still talk about their influence, in your opinion , who of those people who we usually call oligarchs in ukraine now has such an influence as for example, before the war, well, look, first of all, i don't think that ukraine is undergoing a process of total deligarchization due to the war. no, before the war, a new a class of oligarchs began to form in us, these are primarily agrarian oligarchs, also a little from other sectors, the it sector, and further down the list which also had their own, including political influences, and i think that the logistics sector match. i think that these oligarchs from these sectors have the opportunity to move into the future if deep

institutional reforms, which were impossible, are not carried out, the very phenomenon oligarchs, that is, enrichment due to participation in state resources during the distribution of the region. well, participation in monopolies and further down the list of the use of political influence to enrich the oligarchs, they can migrate here, there are no 100% guarantees. and the soviet legacy, these oligarchs are really dying and there are few chances for them, so i would say that here it is just the oligarchs of the 90s, they are really becoming archivists, and the oligarchs are from the 2000s ten years, it is quite likely that they can be preserved and well, i understand that these agrarian oligarchs are not public, but if they are, for example, you can name the first three of these agrarians, well, see if i name

some surname now with the prefix oligarch based on the current legislation in ukraine, i may come across the fact that such a person will say that i am calling for them and this will be a summons because, after all, it is not so easy to prove that a person is an oligarch in a court of law, because the concept of an oligarch does not exist a legal category, it is a political category. but nevertheless, if we simply depart from the thesis of the oligarch and say potential oligarchs or big business that has political influence, then we remember mr. kosyuk, for example, you can remember people from other sectors, from logistics, this is a whole series in business in which a-and and e could potentially have political influence, and from the same, from nova poshta or from large businesses of other system businesses , people who will have serious political influence in the event that there is no the inevitability of punishment and an independent court in

ukraine, and here we have serious problems with the legal system, then any large business, even from the point of view of simply needing to protect itself, protect its assets from unfair attacks from attempts to raid this business, it is forced to resort to political patronage. therefore, or he becomes a part of the political game of others and hires him to protect himself from politics or actually to politics , and thus we in the first case, in the second case, acquires the meaning of certain features of an oligarch of an oligarchy therefore, the agrarian sector, therefore, other large businesses, in the absence of systematic fundamental changes in ukraine , they can quite potentially become or acquire the properties of oligarchs. well, if we talk about the topic of oligarchs and large entrepreneurs in the context of president volodymyr zelenskyi and his role , now due to the war, has greatly increased but is it necessary within ukraine? these are the oligarchs, big businessmen, for actual political

stability, as, for example, it was before for political stability. no, to have a certain consensus and we will have to communicate with them after the end of the war, because today president zelenskyi is really both the president and the supreme commander, and the ratings we see are primarily the ratings of the supreme commander and the fact that he meets the expectations of society today, and judging by what level of support for him. ukrainian society is united in that he performs rather well or well the functions assigned to him by ukrainian society. but if we talk about the policy of zelensky, president zelensky, who will be reborn again and will appear after the end of the war, after victory, of course. there we will see a slightly different actual picture, we will see a slightly different discourse and requests in society to him, and that is why there will be a real need to communicate with the main business, rather, the processes of post-war recovery

development of ukraine, it will somehow be connected with the inflow of serious capital of western capital entering the courts of other players, and in fact the state will need to support in including national capital in order to balance external influences and so that ukraine does not turn into just a supermarket where different players enter and invest their money under their own people under their western companies or eastern companies and thus simply scroll through ukraine money and here from infrastructure appears, roads appear, but ukrainians simply do not have the money to use them, history knows why even a competent and correct state policy will require a dialogue with national capital, so that oligarchs or potential oligarchs would simply become a big business that would capitalize on themselves and ukraine. without political influence and without foul play. thank you for your evaluation on radio svoboda. political scientist oleg

sokil was live. this year, the nobel committee awarded it to two human rights organizations in the ukrainian center for civil liberties and to the russian memorial liquidated by a court decision, as well as to a belarusian human rights defender it is spring for the founder of the center, alesi beletsky, who is currently imprisoned by the lukashenko regime. this year's decision of the committee caused an ambiguous reaction , primarily in ukrainian society, because the award was divided between representatives of russia, which is waging a full-scale war against ukraine, and belarus, which, from february 24, became one of the springboards for russian aggression in the nobel committee is indicated quote laureates of the 2022 nobel peace prize represent civil society in their countries and that they have for many years advocated the right to criticize the government and protect the basic rights of citizens. last year, the

nobel peace prize laureates were the editor-in-chief of the russian novaya gazeta, dmytro muratov, and the filipino journalist maria resse. when the full-scale invasion of ukraine began, the russian novaya newspaper stopped its work after warning of an excavation. and the government itself sold its the nobel medal and the raised funds were handed over by the united nations children's fund, unicef, to help ukrainian refugee children. well, tomorrow will be held in oslo the official ceremony of the awarding of the nobel prize is working. my colleague zoryana stepanenko is with us live. hello star, did you have time to talk with the laureates or, in the case of the belarusian human rights defender, their representatives, before the official ceremony, i will tell you about everything one by one, you know that this award is often really criticized, questioning a the dignity of certain laureates. that is, it is not

that there is some special situation this year. well, if we really talk about this year, although among the laureates, the ukrainian human rights defender the organization of the decision of the nobel committee caused such a controversial and contradictory reaction among ukrainians, because the center for civil liberties shared the award with the russian memorial and the chapter of the belarusian spring, also human rights defenders. well, the country of origin confused many today, the laureates spoke with journalists in front of the press, they all appeared together at the same time together accordingly, they gave a press conference. well, you know the first question that sounded in the hall was precisely about the award for three representatives of the nobel committee emphasized that the noted efforts of civil society, and not the states, namely these human rights organizations, which really make

a significant contribution. protests after the last presidential election in belarus said his wife, who accordingly is now here for services and will receive an award on his behalf for of the russian memorial that researched the repressions of the stalinist past, to be precise. and now it documents the history of the current award, as the director of the organization said, it has become a kind of symbol of hope that further work will bring results. the ukrainian organization laurat is now documenting potential war crimes, collecting evidence and focusing its attention on returning to ukraine only peace and justice, how will a prestigious award help in this? i spoke with the head of the center for civil liberties, you can watch now an exclusive interview with radio e svoboda from oslo, well , i'll just briefly say that the solemn award ceremony is planned for tomorrow, it will take place in the city hall in the traditional presence of the king of norway, after a solemn banquet to which

many distinguished guests from scientific, diplomatic, and political circles have been invited . by the way , the russian ambassador they didn't call, the reason is obvious. well, i'll say this: in monetary terms, the prize is a million dollars. now, watch the interview. we've been documenting war crimes for 8 years, from the moment when russia began the occupation of the crimea, luhansk , donetsk regions, and with a special focus on illegal detention, torture, sexual violence, the killing of civilians, as well as political persecution and imprisonment of people in the occupied territories, and all these eight years we sent dozens of reports over there in the osce, in the council of europe, the european parliament, but they didn't listen to us, and this really started to refute us, because when you are now interviewing a person who survived captivity and

they are telling you very scary things that happened to her, which she became a witness, and you understand that in this very second the same things happen to other people, you can't stop it. and in fact, that's how we moved to global companies like seivolach sentsov, leitman, pipan gow, and others who attracted massive numbers of people in various countries were given such an acceleration of energy by international mechanisms that did not work as they should, we fought for attention, and now the nobel peace prize gave us this attention and we will use it. i always look at sociological surveys and that is why i i understand that putin did not watch them when he was planning this war in the 14th year, when he was planning a full-scale invasion in 2022, well, he would have known for sure that in the first place for ukrainians are the values ​​of freedom , we will fight for our freedom in every sense , but there is more the second sociological survey it was

released not so long ago, it seems that a commission did it, it was recorded what will be the greatest disappointment of ukrainians after the end of the war and in the first place was if justice is not restored and war criminals are not punished by the ukrainian people now there is such a powerful and demanding justice that i think it should not be interfered with, you are conducting a series of negotiations, meetings with individual on the international arena in the world, from among ukrainian partners, it will not work out, so this request for peace, take the mountain, we have to survive in a very interconnected world in which many things do not have national borders, so what country am i not going to when i talk about the things that we document, well, they are understandable to everyone, well, they are understandable to all people, regardless of their political beliefs, religion, any social origin, age, property status, and any signs, too. solidarity, it also has no

national borders. if we have any misunderstandings with the leadership of the country, who will consider that justice is not a value worth fighting for, we will turn to the people and people will support us, and we we remember that when you learned about the award from the nobel committee, you then emphasized that you were happy about the fact that ukraine actually received this award together with the russian human rights organization memorial and also with the head of the belarusian human rights organization spring, well, actually, contradictory assessments of this act were heard in ukrainian society, i will give one of the examples, the adviser to the head of the president's office was ironic on this topic. he said that it is interesting that the nobel committee understands the word peace, which actually the russian and belarusian organizations could not to prevent let's say that the war well, he questioned what they might have done at the time and not enough having heard this criticism. what is

your attitude to the fact that you share the award with by two other organizations. and this is how you evaluate this understanding of peace, and i always explain it to my colleagues abroad. and where are you coming from? irritation of a part of ukrainian society because it can look like this old soviet narrative about brotherly nations when we know that in the soviet union there were no brotherly nations, there was one nation that dominated its culture, its language was everywhere, and all this was a fiction, and of course it causes irritation, but what kind of peace prize is it, not for countries, the chernobyl peace prize for people, for people who are jointly resisting the common evil that wants to assert itself again in our part of the world, and in this context it is a very interesting repetition of history, because i remember the slogan for your freedom, i heard it from my teacher, the dissident philosopher yevgeny sverstyuk. this was the slogan of the dissidents of the soviet

union, who also fought against a common evil and now we are repeating this story . verkhovna rada commissioner for human rights dmytro lubinets said that for the sake of the release of ukrainian civilian hostages, he from the kremlin is personally leading negotiations with tetyana moskalkova, the russian commissioner for human rights, he also talks about the possibility of considering putting representatives of the uoc mp into the exchange fund in the event of receiving court verdicts, he also talked about the activities of the red cross in ukraine in an exclusive interview, correspondence of radio svoboda sofia on wednesday, listen excerpt not so long ago mykhailo podolyak and today you said that such organizations with such a history that did not prove themselves effectively during this war a should have been even disbanded, i.e. reformatted, do you think this is realistic, because i recently spoke with oleksandr matviychuk, for example, and she says

that this is not a completely realistic scenario in her opinion , my thesis is that they should either change or disappear, that is, i give them a chance to change, i am clearly aware that the international committee of the red cross is a well-known important organization, they are registered in the geneva conventions, it will not be an easy process, we understand it, i am here ready to confirm the words of oleksandr matviychuk, it will not be it will be easy for ukraine, it will not be easy for the world, but if they understand that they are not fulfilling their mandate, and they are not fulfilling it, the russian side does not allow ukrainian prisoners of war and they do not want to do anything about it, they do not condemn it publicly, they do not seek it new approaches, they do not attract any new partners, they do not try to put pressure on a country that does not comply with the geneva conventions, so the mandate is not fulfilled here, or you change your work, your approaches, or you arise, so we move in parallel we are from one

on the one hand, we demand that the committee change something in its activities, on the other hand, we officially told them that we are looking for an alternative and we want to create an alternative, correctly . the best side did not happen, for example, they changed the official definitions, so they started using the correct term, what i am talking about. when i came to this position, it turned out that for 8 years, the international committee of the red cross had used in their official reports the term conflict or even worse worse crisis in ukraine i raised this issue several times and finally with the arrival of the new president for the first time about a month ago they

first used the correct term russian-ukrainian international military conflict super this is already progress why are you afraid to come out publicly and say yes, ukraine allows us, we check the russian prisoners of war, yes, the russian federation does not allow us, what is the danger for you, none for the prisoners of war yes , there is, because i think that no matter what we say about russians, you know, are very sensitive to public condemnation, and they themselves do not want this issue to be taken to such a very serious level , and another question about the exchange of prisoners of war in general. will you consider exchanging representatives of the moscow patriarchate against whom there are official suspicions or official verdicts, how was it, for example, with viktor medvedchuk, who was exchanged, how do you, as an ombudsman , feel about the prospect of such an exchange fund, if you can say so, i would not like

to sharpen the issue right there on there on representatives as a church i can say that ah any citizen of the russian federation you know i will do this separately for the russian federation who are interested in the russian authorities we are ready to consider any options for returning them to the territory of russia for the return of our heroes pope in his sermons, francis of rome increasingly actively supports the ukrainian people, who, according to him, have suffered from the war before. francis was accused by many ukrainians that he often expressed sympathy for russia or said about the horrors of the russian-ukrainian war without specifying who is the culprit of this war, but this week during a general audience in the vatican, pope francis recalled the war in ukraine and compared it to the operation of nazi germany against the jews

during the second world war, the pontiff said again and again on thursday on december 8, during the traditional commemoration of the virgin mary in rome, the pope, remembering the ukrainians, cried and could not speak for half a minute. look how it was . what could have influenced the position of francis. and what role

will the pope play in the war between russia and ukraine ? let's talk with us live. philosophy and religion from a skill . remembering when he mentioned the prayers of the ukrainian people . what kind of emotions did you have when you saw this for the first time? well, we saw a person who was sincere, he didn't play anymore . you know this empathy, and i think that he presented to us how you know a real christian, and not how a functionary and you know it very well, this appeals to the pope . and you have your own idea. the whole world is changing its idea. even we ukrainians, when we started this war

in the 14th year, thought a little differently about ourselves. i will correct you a little bit, yes, without doubt. i say that all people go through certain changes, and the pope is simply a very public person, and we can see from him that in his head, in his soul, these changes take various forms. well, his last interview is probably everything- you know, there is a certain demand when he really demonstrated that ukraine is in his soul, that he prays every day, we know about ukraine , well, i would say so. and there are many people in europe who cry over our fate. one of the figures who, you know , was worried about it, how do you do

it ? conversations, for example, with macron, that he can turn to president putin and call on him to stop this spate of military events, that is, he still cannot free himself from waiting for some special expectations that he places on the leaders of russia, but you know about him all the time ukrainians travel. recently, a gardener died in lviv, who brought him, well, such a one. i would say heartbreaking, eh, it means the memory of the cross that was placed, that splinter that killed a small child through well, go on, you already and he will to continue to pray for the ukrainians, this is such empathy, on the one hand, it causes us

sympathy and perception, and on the other hand, you know, i looked at it with my own eyes . i want to say that you can see how tired he is, that is, you already know that his nerves probably cannot withstand this endless grief, these murders, these sacrifices that we make for ourselves and for europe and for the whole world, e-e, filippovich, do you think that he could just be tired, that is, this wasn't any kind is the change idealistic, or is the change in essence, he still wants reconciliation there? in his opinion, so is russia, ukraine, er, and he just emotionally reacted to it like this. you understand the factors that

influence a person, not just a mummy. he still retains this vitality, as we say, and age is already showing. well, let's not forget that the main purpose of christianity and a christian is to be a peacemaker. yes, he can change, he can influence the fate of the world, he can convince the russians stop this war, what will he be able to bring to the negotiating table in ukraine and russia, the truth is, he does not say on what conditions such negotiations can take place, but he cannot think otherwise, he thinks in the christian paradigm, and any christian parody, to reconcile the two warring parties, to reconcile the peacemakers, this is peacemaking is the main as they

say, the message that was given back in the first e-e centuries is by jesus christ himself, we are his followers, that is, these are people who did not fight with some kind of system, did not fight with enemies like this they called for peace, for mutual understanding, for understanding, yes, i apologize, is it possible to talk now, after such a rather emotional step , about the possible visit of the pope to ukraine earlier , as i understand it, the conditions were not discussed, but now, what do you think? i think that he has there is a desire to come to ukraine, it just doesn't work out, so the circumstances for him to be able to come here now, for sure, and his health may not allow it, although we know that he went to kazakhstan and was in canada, dad still doesn't want to, if it wasn't there he doesn't want to quarrel with moscow he wants to pacify the aggressor, and again, this all

falls not only into the concept of the christian a and b, the so-called island of tik, which was developed at one time by the apostolic capital, the vatican, with such approaches to dangerous aggressor states by their nature a peacemaker means to stop , to try to convince, that is, to act not by military or force methods, but by persuasive methods of conversation. look , it is a completely christian position. philipopych filofosa - er, philosopher and religion expert was on radio svoboda live, thank you. well, that 's all. subscribe to radio svoboda on facebook , instagram, telegram, youtube, and twitter. there you

will find exclusive materials of our correspondents from the front, as well as unique stories of people who they tell what they experienced in the war, in particular after the russian occupation, and on saturday life will return to the air already on monday happily let's see how people who suffer from rheumatism and arthrosis live smeared with dolgit now let the dolgit cream anesthetize, reduce swelling and improve the mobility of the joints because it already breaks the joints. dolgit is the only yellow cream for pain in the joints and back, ask at the pharmacies, good day pharmacy and one social pharmacy dolgit cream 100 g with a 20% discount. it happens only once every four years 32 national teams will meet on the fields of keter to find a new winner in ideals see all 64 matches of the championship