a lot depends on how this war will end, and it will definitely end with the victory of ukraine, but i would like to say that today many people say that the victory of ukraine is when we liberate the donbas, when we are from a free crimea it is not the victory of ukraine, it is shifting the future problem onto the shoulders of one's grandchildren and children . the head of the erzi society in ukraine, the co-founder of the social movement free and the day of the urals and indeed, i think that it is a great danger when representatives of

russian nationalities who live temporarily. if putin said that she would then return to her national districts and start inciting the national districts there so that they would mention in her language the culture and customs and so on and so on and that's the story, you know. i think she is very unpleasant for putin and putin is afraid of her and we remember literally a year ago there was this conversation that in russia there are thousands, it is putin himself who recognized the problems of the borders of the internal borders of the borders of the autonomous regions and the cars of some districts and there are claims against each other and he was terribly angry at the time, when the director was not russian, i would have forgotten the name, he brought up this topic and made putin very angry. and it has to do with the economy, with the economy mykhailo gonchar, an expert on international energy

and security relations at the center for global studies strategy 21 namely today international energy and security relations they are together energy they are safe safe they are honorable and energy thank you mr. mykhailo for joining us very glad and it is very nice to see you and i would ask this very theoretically i don't think so many ukrainians think, or even many europeans in general, but when i am after a conversation before a conversation with you, preparing for it or thinking after a conversation slava she often happens conversations, i say to myself, there is so much gas in the soviet union and so much oil in the world and the economy works based on this amount. if you remove some five percent of 7% of gas or 2%, 3%

of oil, you have to replace it with something. that is, it still has to be somewhere, and when i say limit, when everyone says that russia must be limited, i also need to limit two with my hands i raise my two hands and show behind, but i sit and think well , can the world of humanity quickly fill the shortage that arises because of these sanctions against russia, or will this not cause some other fleeting results that are undesirable for the world and the world says yes, we feel sorry for the ukrainians, but we do not we love russians, but we don't we can limit nothing, because we will all have food, and ukrainians and russians and us europeans, americans and arabs and all the africans in the world, what do you say? well, here is the question of speed, if not in

our understanding that today a decision was made, tomorrow someone was taken and cut down from the world there is an oil or gas market, of course, this is not done. well, when we now look at 30 prospectively, we will count down to may 30 of the current year. and just the oil sanctions, we see that in principle, if the preparations were going on until december 5, the preparations should be continued until the beginning of february. when the perga regime will work, russian oil products, that is, the market was naturally under the influence of this entire period. in principle, i would say yes, this is such a soft suffocation of russia, soft, of course, we in ukraine would like it to happen

quickly, well, the concept of speed on a global scale can be said that this is it and it happens quickly, the effect i think we will already see somewhere else quarter of the next year, it is clear that there is a balance sheet equation, you correctly said that how much oil was extracted somewhere, oil products were produced, how much should be sold when supply and demand match, well, actually, then the market is stable, prices are stable and everyone is fine, but this practically does not happen to anyone e- the oil and gas market is always volatile, especially when certain political and geopolitical factors have an influence.

of the verkhovna rada committee on the issues of exactly what we are talking about. thank you very much, mr. oleksiy, for finding time for us on saturday, so you were a minister, that is, for you. circumstances are the same as always for ministers. i don't have gas, or something isn't burning, and i asked mykhailo goncharuk, i think you know each other, do you know each other's questions, do you know the world by punishing russia? not to run into various dangers, this is an important question, because i'm sitting, i'm just sitting so that the world functions as far as i 'm concerned. i remember 100 million barrels per day it is necessary in russia, as if there is little something there yes, but 5%, and this is 5 million and there are 5 million somewhere else to take and for

the economy to function and for energy to help the economy to function out of respect for mr. mykhailo, he really considers him a specialist in the work of these global markets. i don't even consider myself to be such, i enjoy listening to him because lately i have been concentrating more on our vocal market and i see how he reached a dead end whether gas or electric that is communal and this is today for me a clear conclusion, i concluded that this model is a market model that exists today and not only in ukraine, but we are actually trying to integrate into the european world market, accordingly we accept their rules of the game, it drove itself into a dead end and we saw this is primarily based on the example of the energy crisis in europe, in fact, it's not

a tragedy, it's a mistake of the market, it's a market failure in europe, and i assume that the europeans themselves now to first of all have to understand for themselves as well as the world. and what model should be replaced by those that did not work? we saw how europe and russia really held oil. it can't buy much there, but it held gas somewhere in europe, if i'm not mistaken, and sometimes 40 and 50%. it began to occupy a dominant position there, and in fact we can see that this has caused some kind of price increase, as a matter of fact, panic, and the basement is full, they feel normal, what is the tragedy here for us? in the first place the weapon that he pointed out is flying

at us from the side of our enemy and we demand it. it's just that sometimes even such a hostile hostile position towards the europeans is urgent, it must be stopped, stopped. there, despite the gas, the consumption of russian oil, others, still others, well, we see that something is not working out. i'm not saying already about hungary, which in general rests. because it has its own strategic one there, and you can even see that it is ready for your dependence on the russian energy carrier for a different time. i am convinced of one thing: the energy models that have recently developed in the oil market, the gas market , they have created opportunities for the dictates of the supplier and now they need to be radically changed, which was there in the first place, the dictates of the consumer, who pays, who buys. he

pays the money in the end. rest for gas for electricity for oil and so on. he should dictate just those matters to a certain extent unconditionally his position and his demands so that this market does not enter such a dead end as it has entered today. and to me i apologize to oleksiy and mikhailov when you said that russia will feel it for the third time in the second quarter, that is, from april 23rd, what will russia feel, what does it mean, how will it be reflected in the everyday life of the russian x on ivan ivanovich ivan, he was something will be more expensive, something will be missing, something will be less paid for something, how can it look like in the second quarter, it will not be reflected on ivan ivanovich, on the contrary, there may even be a reduction in the whole of oil products, because there may be stockpiling of those warehouses

free reservoir parks and oil and petroleum products that will not find sales, so if there could be an auction, generosity is not visible, but what is happening already is a decrease in income from the received export operations with oil, and from february and petroleum products, you will go, that is this is what will reduce the income for the war, let's say yes, the financing of the war will decrease but it will not stop , of course, and this is the main problem. to export oil and pay the corresponding profits here, pay taxes, the federal budget, and accordingly, this is the financing of the war, precisely the polish proposal, the ukrainian proposal of the baltic countries was to make this ceiling as

low as possible somewhere at the level of the cost of oil production at the well well, uh, with our western partners another was the understanding that the cost price should include taxes and there should be no sudden movements in the oil market so as not to cause turbulence and not get the opposite result of an oil jump uh, what's missing. here i completely share the approach of oleksia. what's missing is that our western partners lack one understanding that russia does not operate in the energy markets according to a commercial market logic. but according to the logic of the theater of war, it acts, does it break the rules of the market, and react they are trying to use market means, and that is why this is where it comes from. this is the mismatch of tools, well, figuratively speaking, when they sit down to play chess and another player takes it, so to speak, there is a chess board in the

player’s head and he thinks everything, well, not according to the rules, yes they don't play, but it turns out that's how they play. thank you, mr. mykhailo, we just don't have enough time for the last question. and the last question for oleksiy. i'm sorry. you don't have one minute to answer about the situation in the energy sector of ukraine. is it critical or are we on the contrary recovering? are they really helping us ? will we have light? i understand that this is a question for three years to answer. but you only have 60 seconds. the situation is difficult - it's unequivocal. unfortunately, people today are me. well, i'm surprised by such nervousness . irritation, even hatred, where are the energetics? dear ukrainians, please stop the energy workers are doing this as much as possible, this is war, this is the energy front, and therefore extinguishes this

panic. they take a victim like this, they take odessa, i don't know what it has to do with this, they use odessa as an example, or with the monument to catherine, or with the fact that they think that there are russian measures or that vaccination is taking place in odessa now, but in the morning they beat people with chess pieces substations are very key in odesa as well. the situation is very difficult there, there is electricity supply, but only critical infrastructure, what is the main problem? chess, which cost 30,000 unfortunate dollars, which at a speed of 170 km/h destroys a transformer, which costs 7, 8, 10 million dollars, unfortunately sits there i do not fully understand why it is not possible to protect these ukrenergo substations with engineering concrete structures, and why it is not possible to create a normal reliable air defense system

specifically against drones, these are machine guns, these are simple anti-aircraft installations, these are searchlights, these are acoustic locators , nothing has changed there, 170 km and a height of 400 m, everything flies, you understand, it is shot down by a trivet weapon. kucherenko, ex-minister of housing and communal services, member of the verkhovna rada committee on just about all issues. who get here. yes, but the minister is absolutely right, and i want to join him in the last word. well, regarding this part of the program, what is there to really complain about the power engineers, all this is simply

dishonest, they are unique people. we we wish victories , health, strength, victories to the soldiers we talk about doctors ourselves. we do the same about volunteers. we talk about many, many people in the same way, but in this list of heroes, i would boldly insert and represent people who provide at least some energy supply, at least some heat, which if its there is no, it is not because someone does not want or because someone cannot, but because there is not enough strength to repair everything today, for today, i can already feel the quarrels that will begin, why is there no light on this street, on this one, there is one in this house there is no such ukrainian fashion to complain about the neighbor. if there is, then it is there for some reason. i have

friends in lviv who have electricity and why. because there is probably something important nearby . it was created like this not today and not yesterday 20 years ago, this line somehow goes like this and it goes somewhere , where it needs to go, just keep this in mind, gentlemen, i went along it, and the european parliament next thursday plans to look at the resolution when they removed muru with genocide, why are you leaving now, during the bloody war, the europeans began to recognize our tragedy well, in recent weeks, you agree greece , germany, romania they wanted to avoid annoying the russian federation earlier mr. mykola is writing to me whether they considered the famine in the world and what should happen so that israel finally recognizes our genocide, we are the voice of kos long ago we recognized him, we have a bunch of

memorial signs that condemn the crimes of nazism , so everything is very simple here, everything is very simple . we have been talking since 1991. we have been talking about various things, including the fact that our most important friend is russia. talk about it out loud well, then let's find out now whether the war started and even after the 14th year in ukraine, parties that did not recognize it entered the parliament, then let's ask the jews who

will answer us representatives of the state of israel who will say listen to your parties that continue to speak that beautiful russia and russia does not recognize the holodomor that you are leaving us why should we recognize and you do not recognize - you are friends with someone who does not recognize categorically now we have moved from love for russia to love for the west, what is it for first of all, they constantly criticized the wars, oh, they don't give weapons, but i'm sitting in the white house or in brussels, and ukrainians say to me, please give me such and such a weapon. and i sit and think. i'm smiling. i'm a decent person . and whether russia will redo the blueprints and whether or not it will be able to produce such weapons, because yesterday this person who told me now give me weapons, this

colonel i am not talking about the minister thank god we have a normal minister, a normal commander-in-chief , a normal president, but some colonel yesterday when i suggested to him from brussels, listen, you should do this in order to get closer to nato, he says that we don’t need too much, we need to be friends with russia, and this is a challenge to the ukl, yes, this is a secret somewhere in the heads of europeans who, seeing from the 91st 998 to 2014 for a year, they looked at kyiv as a great friend of moscow from the 14th, they changed it a little. well, maybe not a little, but they seriously changed this position, but there were still discussions . instead of off and immediately like this french and polish, german, american

minister. i forgot everything about all the years from 1991 to 2014 , and in this situation, it will not be like that when ukraine has shown concretely that it is getting on the rails of civilization, on the rails of the transition from post- soviet to european, if you can say so. romania and greece and germany are beginning to recognize show yourself prove to yourself with your behavior that you are worthy of what you want is an important moment nobody in ukraine is to blame nobody nothing well the state of israel has a kind of strange and tragic history and sometimes it's terrible, sometimes it's successful, there's a separate story,

we'll see what kind of relationship we'll have, er, i think that putin is doing everything to throw the citizens of israel, not the citizens, into the arms of the citizens of ukraine, but the citizens of israel, who occupy the highest levels, so that they too somehow they began to look at the world around them differently and i think that putin, as they say in russia, sings, he succeeds here in order to get one more enemy in the form of now it may not be an enemy but such and such a substance will be some kind of suspicious it is important to look at the kremlin, is it necessary to put a christmas tree during the war, i spoke about it to ms. anastasia there two or three weeks ago, and we had a lot of such discussions about this very thing here. i know the position of many people, there was just some story, i don't remember

where it came from, but and in the plot it was said that well, we decided not to put up a christmas tree, i gave many, many, many arguments that this is precisely putin's dream, that nothing would work for us, that it was dark, that we would all be so gloomy and terrible, and that we would forget about holidays so that we forget about smiles, so that we don't go to cafes, so that we don't dress nicely, so that theaters don't work, and so on . how can many children do not understand what is

happening , why is there no light, why is there no such thing, why is there no heat, why is there no water, why ? the children saw some kind of world and light at the end of this tunnel in which in which in which in which ukraine is located thanks to the russian federation. therefore, now i think parents have the opportunity to buy a christmas tree for a child and a prostitute candy . it's not so expensive, listen, it's not so expensive, when i read the numbers , how much does a large christmas tree cost in the center of the city? well, it's not such millions of hryvnias, so decide for yourself. i don't know, but what i say is what i say. how do you evaluate the information that ukraine still exports? electricity abroad is great, electricity

cannot be hidden in a suitcase, you understand. if it is produced somewhere, then it must be consumed. if there is no possibility to consume it somewhere in ukraine, for example, i say . give it away immediately, there are no such batteries, there are some such places where you can accumulate, you know , then ukraine would have accumulated energy for 100 years ahead and would live peacefully now. and i know what he sells, moreover , russian oil is transported through ukraine, as far as i remember, to europe at the same time as the hungarians and so on , that is, the hybrid war started, you know. and the hot war did not cancel the hybrid war. the war continues simply from february 24.

a hot war, that is why it is hybrid, that is, here we are fighting here, we also have our own territory, we pass some goods, well, in the form of gas, oil from russia, and here we sell electricity, earn money and spend this money to buy western goods, by the way about this, too, this too, and the russians can shout, these pseudo patriots what, how is it that we pass oil from gas , i don't remember what is more, what is less. somewhere and they get tanks that shoot at our heads, say the russians, criticizing the government

. to purchase what we need during the war is that the representative of the security council of the united states does not approve of strikes on the territory of russia because they do not want an escalation, it was reported that the u.s. is modernizing the hi-mars for ukraine so that they cannot be used to launch large-scale missiles range, you can give your comment, i can, first of all , ms. galina, after that there was already a statement by some high-ranking americans that they are not against ukrainians shooting on russian territory, and the high-mar son is a smaller territory of unverified i can't comment on the information, i just don't know. no, i don't have any friends or acquaintances who could explain it to me. what kind of experts are we? i should ask. can it be done so quickly and is it really done? well, when you know someone is bad

a- and he smokes in wengels well, it means that something ukrainian can fly somewhere to something russian, because i somehow in my head, i don’t know, maybe it’s a mistake , the roots of the cities laid out in it are combined with russia’s war against ukraine and with strikes, what with strikes on russia’s critical nuclear infrastructure, as president engels erdağan intends to spend december 11. i'm just looking at my watch here to hold telephone talks with the president of ukraine and the president of russia. he said that politics are not ignorant at all. a conversation if it comes to that well, if berdyan said that it would happen so i think that such things

can and will be true this is what you have to believe ardigan would not have said if it was so you know maybe yes or maybe no maybe he had them maybe he told his aides that this is a long enough procedure that you just understood when the president wants to talk it doesn't take one second and that's what he says and that's what he's saying and that's what he's saying and that's whether he's going to be there or not this president is busy and that and that one and when and when it's convenient for them when it's convenient for them when it's convenient for them it would be convenient for the two of them, what topic will we talk about you you you you you this is a long long long procedure so i think that all this can be and i think that the war will introduce its corrections anyway i think that a will talk about grain will talk about transportation from ukrainian ports, they will agree on something, erdogan has very strong cards in his hands against putin, he does not like putin,

obviously, but they are similar in many things and they understand each other, so something will happen, but it will not happen without questions of war, no it will be fine, but what questions will be discussed i don't know i don't know i'm not among the people who make decisions from putin's entourage, not zelensky's, or ordan's, i live my life and look forward to the news on the espresso channel because they are always fast because they are news and well read by nice people, for example , make sure iryna koval, she will now start talking about the news, it will be fresh, it will be great , i'm sure, thank you, mr. mykola, so you can live your life today and have a little rest this evening and i will tell you literally in a moment about all the events that took place at that time