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next guest to this studio, this is andrii vigirinsky lawyer , political analyst, mr. andriyu, we invite you to come in. good night to you, good evening, bright as day, congratulations, it really works, minimum lighting, yes , the minimum possible, yes, because they ask for your documents but of course, we will talk about serious topics that concern our present and we will start with a discussion of what we partly talked about with mr. shakerman, in particular it is about the supply of patriot systems to ukraine that is potentially possible, ukraine can receive the patriot system in the shortest possible time, said the advisor to the head of the president's office, mykhailo podolyak, according to him, it is not worth speculating on the topic of weapons transfer. and it will be possible to talk about the effectiveness of the patriot systems only after they enter on combat duty that he wants

to receive all the information about whether ukraine can fully use these systems or are our guys ready to use them from the point of view of understanding techniques. will it really help to do some work there to close the sky over ukraine? well, there are still a number of technical issues that i think will be resolved again within the framework of effective negotiation processes. so, mr. andrii. if before we could only dream about patriots we can only hope that someday we will have them in ukraine, because we know how much they can help us and close our sky, then here we are already talking about the transfer of such installations to ukraine in the shortest possible time, why so abruptly changed their mind, and that became the starting point when the western countries decided that these installations should be in ukraine. well, let's do it. well, in order not to be excessively optimistic , the chances are practically 50 to 50, because so far

. well, because we can either get them or not , even mr. podalyak actually he said that there are chances, but for now they are not with us and when the decision is announced by mr. biden about the supply, then we will tell you that it has already been accepted and it is only a matter of time when they will arrive to us and about the reasons for the need to strengthen the ukrainian of anti-aircraft anti-missile defense well, it seems to me that for the entire civilized world there are at least obvious facts, e.e., videos and photographs of those injuries that were inflicted by russian missile attacks that continue, including with the use of e-e shahed drones manufactured by iran, which continue on the territory of ukraine and those the means provided to us by other countries as of today, they are insufficient to ensure safety . wars directly. it is certainly

necessary to strengthen this aid, and the systems that the united states owns can strengthen this aid, so the reasons are obvious. the war continues, and since it continues and the ugliness of ukrainian critical infrastructure remains, then this vulnerability must be minimized. well, apparently, other countries have exhausted their options. so the time has come for the biden administration to take this step. moreover , they are taking eternal long-term steps related to financial support. well, if we we are talking about financing the deficit of the state budget. well, they supply the ammunition and weapons that we need in the shortest possible time. but nevertheless, they can do more, and since they can do more, and they want the same thing that we do, this is the advent of peace on the territory of ukraine, so here is more they should transfer, and it seems to me that there is actually nothing unusual here in terms of reasons, the key reason is the continuation of the war, and even after the end of the war , you and i remain adherents of that concept

guarantees of the security of ukraine, which were developed in the office of the president and which provide that at least the creation of prerequisites for the ukrainian airspace to be safe must be provided to us by the guarantor countries, and the guarantors of these countries should be those countries that currently supply weapons, therefore opening the possibility of supplying the patriot system at which a decisive step yes, which perhaps earlier someone would have interpreted as a form of escalation well, which could be interpreted in this way by russia, it is the beginning of a long-term of the process of forming a full-fledged, integral and capable of ensuring the security of the entire territory of ukraine air anti-missile defense system that will continue even after the end of the war . what american journalists wrote that in the united states in the white house they believed there in march at least that the

transfer of the petri systems could lead to an excessive escalation of logically, i.e. in the old one. now the transfer of petri is undoubtedly an escalation or how to interpret it precisely in this plane. well, for example. so i will offer my version and i will plus or minus be based on certain facts. and you will correct it. this is when mr. stoltenberg uses the concept of war should not go beyond controllability yes, what does controllability mean, controllability is most likely the use of certain types of weapons and in a certain territory, that is, where active hostilities are taking place, well directly on the front line in the east, in the south of ukraine, a certain type of equipment is used there, well, let's understand with you that the iskanders are hardly used there, what concerns the territory of ukraine, which is not covered by direct combat operations, is used here , let's say, other weapons systems and controllability of the process - this is more likely than anything else assume a certain form of communication that exists

in one way or another between the special services of the countries of the nato bloc and the russian federation, but what means can be used in relation to what goals and in if these means are superior or, well, let's say certain others are used, then a different weapons system is provided to ukraine, for example, ben volos , if i'm not mistaken, said this week that if the attacks on civilian infrastructure continue , what will happen in great britain has the opportunity to provide ukraine with longer-range artillery for that to strike back can we say that this is a response to the violation of certain unspoken rules of non-public forum communication rules that exist admissibly at the level defense departments of the united states and nato member countries, i admit that i can and most likely when the russian federation continues to bombard our energy infrastructure and plunge the civilian population into suffering, it received some form of warning from the

nato member countries that look, we are telling you conditionally about the following, you are talking about what is in the event that ukraine receives a medium or long- range possibility of hitting your territory, do you perceive it as an aggressive step on the part of nato, we we are telling you about the following. continue to fire at civilian infrastructure or certain objects in western central ukraine. we will provide these types of weapons. this is also a certain form of control over the use of certain types of weapons. russia precisely in relation to that part of the territory of ukraine that is not directly covered by hostilities, they precisely provoked the possibility of such a decision, and i think that most likely when our partners talk about controllability, when they talk about new supplies, about improving the quality of supplies, they just testify to the fact that russia goes beyond the limits, not that even a conventional war is not beyond the limits of legitimate objects for military purposes, that is,

energy objects of critical infrastructure, they are not legitimate goals. and this, in turn, is a violation of the geneva convention, which means that it goes beyond the existing rules and establishes the level of the three conventions that establish the rules for conducting hostilities, and it seems to me that fair, logically, it is possible that over time we will learn about a completely different version of events, but for some reason it seems to me that from the point of view of pragmatism and rationality, well, the actions are exactly like that. well, somewhere like that. and if in relation to ukraine patriots, then russia is already threatening what it says may be unforeseen consequences, then this says are these just threats or what will happen? look, piskovsky noted that in the case of supplying patriot systems, they will become legitimate targets. well, there is probably logic in these words because, in principle, this is an object of military the capabilities of the country you attacked and you want to hit these military targets. well, they also want to

hit the himars systems, in fact, the reports they offer to their audience, they hit them, the himars missiles, they shot down more than the number we will sell are traditional. well, they maximize the negative effect of their actions, yes, but in the media plane, fortunately for you and me , there is an asymmetric response. what they are currently using nuclear weapons , this is this topic, remove it from the agenda, how did they try to return to it, if they did not try to actualize it, we see in general the capabilities and capacities that are used in a coordinated manner in relation to not using the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant as an element of a nuclear miner and regarding the use of tactical or strategic nuclear weapons, political agreements, political obligations under which russia has already signed, also because, according to the results of the g20, it has been agreed upon by russia and an official

the position sounds so that it suits them well, it is written in black and white in english on a white sheet of paper or in electronic form that china and the g20 countries, which include countries friendly to russia, india, saudi arabia, believe that the 21st century is not the century god is with him, where are wars going on, wars are going on, but nuclear weapons cannot be from conflicts, that's why, well, switch to something to do even after the g20, the territory has declined sharply, they say, in fact, it has disappeared from the public plane. well, because it has been removed, it is at the moment it was removed from the public plane because of that. well, the whole consolidated world, which is a conditionally economic consolidated world that gathered at the summit of indonesia, represents both the country conditionally and the j7 and the coalition that supports us, as well as the brics countries that are loyal to the russian federation or neutral as it perceives them in their internal legislation and everyone subscribed to the fact that no one wants the planet earth to turn into a

place, let's say, in which the survival of the human race is extremely limited or impossible, yes for sure no, they don't want that from the audit, one last thing about petrii, it's not enough that this is the main anti-aircraft system used by nato countries, as far as i know from open information that can be found on the internet, that one petri battery costs a billion dollars and the launch day of the rocket costs 3 million , but it is also a very valuable system for nato and the west in general, which is planned to be used at least until 2040, and that the very fact that if it happens, the transfer of these weapons, in your opinion , is evidence of the relations about the relations that are now is between ukraine and our western allies about the level of trust is possible because it is a very valuable thing , obviously. moreover, if this thing is used incorrectly, then the conflict can really go beyond the

controlled ones that the west wants to see, well, look, first of all, we are talking about the fact that the systems petriv will be used for defense and not for offensive actions. well, no, it is not the same , yes, a dialogue is being built about the fact that we, as a means of converting them, we will use them to launch in the direction of the enemy, we are talking about that it will help protect us from enemy attacks once before about the escalation component in terms of supply piskov can speak, the official kremlin can speak, but it is meaningless from the point of view of the purpose of these systems for us. yes, to our allies and ukraine, from the point of view of the symbolism of the supply, you know if you move away from this rhetoric that we are lacking. patriots, yes, we understand that there is an order queue and some countries are waiting for the supply of these systems,

in which conflicts do they participate directly from the point of view of immediate threats of a military nature and military conflicts, road accidents, weapons are used, there is a war in ukraine, and since you have signed up as allies to help ukraine recover justice and restoration and establishing the values ​​of a democratic world. that is your global goal. it meets the challenges of security in our territory, that is, accordingly the priority of supply goes where these systems will not just stand in anticipation of a possible conflict by the 40th year, but go where they will be used, well, the logic of actions is approximately this is what their goals are, they coincide with our tasks, well, there is also a global question, yes, this is a question the potential retention of these systems in service if, in the event that they are delivered to us, they will be used for a long period of time even in the post-war period and they are part of the collective

anti-missile anti-aircraft defense system countries of the european union. that is, it is already global. chancellor of the federal republic of germany, pancholts, in his program article for the creation of the federal security service, noted that one of the components of the collective security of europe is the creation of a collective system of anti-aircraft missile defense, and it seems to me that every time the enemy is on the territory of the continental as of today, only the russian federation is seen in europe. well, maybe belarus, yes, but it is considered as a part of a whole, a part of a whole body, yes, and we have directly the borders with this country with these two countries, then we cannot be outside the boundaries of this joint air defense system, so yes, i think that in the strategic security plan of the european union, we are also expecting another document, let's say a strategic document on the national security plan of the federal republic of germany ukraine will be listed as one of the partner countries of the allies, we hope and more about scholz,

then he made a fundamental miscalculation by sending troops to ukraine, so the german believes chancellor olafsholz noted that the head of the kremlin achieved none of his goals, he failed to divide europe, damage democracy and quickly seize ukraine. putin underestimated kyiv and the eu states. he was wrong about the courage of ukrainians, the nature of european democracy and their will to resist. it is interesting to say that the shaltzians said that how do you who do you think he did it for? well , i mean, we probably understand here that what he says is true. but he didn't just say it like that. well, to whom do politicians usually address their words, well, the contours, yes, this is the internal contour and the external counter, the internal contour is the electorate of the population's voters, well, the external contour is the same subjects of foreign policy activity, which

are you, other countries, leaders of other countries, those leaders of other countries, which are allies, they repeat approximately those well, the words themselves well, it is hardly possible to say that biden, er, well, he will not sign under every word in scholzem exactly in such and such a form. yes, there may be contradictions in them according to the anti- inflation law in the united states, here they are for sure spears will be broken, but in these matters they will be uh allies uh, these words can be addressed directly to the president of the russian federation, but he has already heard them, so from the point of view of the value of these words, they are important for us, yes, because they somehow raise our morale spirit , including because it is our merit that she will not achieve any of the goals set by the president of the russian federation, primarily because the countries of the west during the 10 months of the war, during which it lasted, had a rather specific and different position in on the questions of whether to support ukraine and whether ukraine will stand and preserve your sovereignty, let them not deceive you either, they supported us not from the first day, and it should not be forgotten either, yes, that is,

they watched resistance and resistance and as the blood of our soldiers was shed on they made a decision for themselves about how to build strategic plans in relation to the support of ukraine well, the same thing did not immediately become so categorical that it is not necessary to idealize the politicians who speak today beautiful words that impress us, and forgetting about how they behaved until the summer, that is if we are talking about shol, he really watched his country watched it, actually, will the ukrainian and russian delegation reach acceptable agreements in istanbul, which in turn will not made it possible for them to make decisions about the supply of certain types of weapons that are now entering the territory of ukraine for some reason. he did not do this in march or april, of course he changed his decision. well, he had no other choice, he today, he realizes that he is losing his economy, his country is actually losing its

industrial economic potential, and if he wants germany to be the country that defines the policy in the european union, he needs to take a radical position in relation to the issue that leads to negative consequences for the economy of his countries. this issue is a question of war, in order to minimize it, it must be removed from the agenda as soon as possible by its termination. there is only one way to terminate it, while the country resists and is effectively prevented, it is possible to achieve a victory over or that result in which ukraine is preserved and in germany the factor e.e., let's say migration , infectious and other destructive things that are connected precisely with the war, and he takes an active position related to the fact that this factor minimizes again, i say that it is not necessary to idealize them, it is not always and not completely at the value, so when he talks about not achieving the goals, let's decide on the fact that he himself drew up a list of goals, yes, in those words that he himself wrote in

specifically, the goals of this article will not be achieved. as for putin , what were the goals? well, we were not. we will seriously consider the things that were announced on february 24, because he himself says that the so-called special operation in quotation marks can of course take on a protracted nature, that is, he has to some time to decide how to act further. putin is so. he realizes that the conflict can be indefinite. from the point of view of legal formalities for his country, he is like that, he will be like that and will remain under putin and after putin in the village which legal formalities they followed when holding a quasi-referendum and in the adjacent room, including a part of the territory of ukraine in its constitution, even with the physical reconquest of this territory, the de-occupation of this territory by the ukrainian armed

forces . it will always be a problem for russia, because part of its territory, which is written in the constitution , is occupied by ukrainian troops, well, from their point of view, accordingly, it prepares its population well not to a protracted war, but to a state of war that will exist for a very long period of time and over time they may even be called the sbu, yes, that is, a special military operation, it will already be a change of a certain , partly a change of propaganda, partly a change of goals in which he will articulate what we do not we can relax with you, you see the whole west against us nato countries took our valuable lands of kherson region of zaporizhzhia, although we wrote them into the constitution not so long ago but we always felt a moral and psychological connection with local residents who did not participate in referendums but we told you that there were referendums, we can't go back, in order to go back on this issue, to change the constitution, the social structure, political opinion and the regime as a whole in the russian federation must change completely.

he is preparing his country for protracted restrictions with which they will have to live, under which the west is closed to them and the spaces of the east are open to them, let’s say, all the doors, well, although it is unlikely that mass migration will take place in china. it will be comfortable, well, i admit, and maybe on the contrary, the citizens of russia will like stricter discipline there even more than in their historical lands, even if it is to believe that the cells in which putin and his henchmen will end up after the investigation of all war crimes, crimes committed by them will be let's say so not so comfortable for them, as if they might want it, and because the process aimed at ensuring that they end up in these cells or at least receive sentences is gaining momentum, the russian leadership will be tried within the international the tribunal has no doubts about this, according to a certain adviser to the head of the president's office mykhailo podolyak, it is also proven that certain countries, in particular the

netherlands, already say that they have platforms for holding court hearings in the cases of representatives of the russian political elite . they said about russia that it was a war, that it was very bad, but they spoke very carefully about putin himself, but today practically everyone says that putin is, in fact, a war criminal who must necessarily go through the tribunal as such must be legally responsible for its actions and they talk about this as an absolutely objective process that will definitely take place. great britain is preparing a group of ukrainian judges to conduct trials regarding russia 's war crimes in ukraine. judges have already attended a meeting in a secret location, and in the coming months others will also be trained for this, the

fraternity allocated 2.5 million pounds, according to the attorney general victoria prentice, the program will ensure large-scale prosecution of the perpetrators of crimes while the war continues, it is known that most of the trials in the country will be carried out by ukrainian judges, it is worth noting that the training is conducted by howard morrison, a british judge who worked at the international criminal court and international criminal tribunals for yugoslavia and rwanda, why do ukrainian judges need such information the special training of britain, in your opinion, is a difficult question because podolyak spoke about international arbitration and this is a completely different story. the training of ukrainian judges is a completely different story, they are not completely connected, yes. although they all relate to war crimes and to the military aggression of the russian federation, that means look at what is within the competence of the

ukrainian judicial system, its war crimes for which prosecution will be carried out in accordance with our criminal procedural code, this is a matter of competence ukrainian courts as well as their courts of individual countries that recognize the so-called universal jurisdiction. that is, you and i know that there are baltic countries and individual countries of the european union that are independent, also due to the fact that war crimes have, let's say, the possibility of being prosecuted under the laws of all countries . to our judicial system. they undertake to prosecute these criminals, ordinary military personnel, according to the laws of their own country , that is, they investigated a certain episode, and conditionally representatives of lithuania or estonia came there to the territory of the kyiv region documented the crimes committed, well, in the future, the investigation is carried out on the territory of the relevant countries and court decisions are made on the territory of these countries, understanding that for ukrainian judges there will be cases

within the boundaries of the entire territory of ukraine, so much so that the judges simply may not be able to physically cope with it now, well , this here is the mechanism of universal jurisdiction, we put it aside a little now, now we return to ukraine, how extensive is the practice of applying legislation on bringing to criminal responsibility for committing war crimes is not so great , that is, they are prescribed in our criminal code as crimes for which punishments are provided. the time of consideration of the case and directly listening to the parties examining the evidence establishing the subjective side of the crime and the personal psychological attitude of the subject to the commission of the crime is, well, it is a composition a procedural mechanism without which, or not having practice in applying the relevant norms, a judge may or may not be able to consider cases so quickly, yes, or there, when, or make decisions that will be canceled in the future, yes, because any decision of our court of general jurisdiction

, it is so or otherwise can be challenged in the european court of human rights and accordingly, we want with you the high-quality application by judges, including international legislation on war crimes, and such that in the future these decisions resisted in the european court of human rights, so i allow it because, after all, we would certainly like to hear comments on this matter from the state judicial administration, and not from sky news journalists. training is taking place yes , and it gives and continues, a lot of procedural moments are already layered on top of it. well, when our official bodies confirm that this training took place, i believe that it is simply happening, let's say, the actualization of knowledge and individual procedural moments so that the judges who will consider these cases on the territory of ukraine do not make mistakes that in the future may lead to the fact that such decisions will be reviewed at the level of international institutions, that's

about it. the task of any training should sincerely be analogical. what do you think it will depend on will he fulfill the mission that he undertakes, that is entrusted to him by western politicians, let's start by letting him be created, that is, already at this stage there may be some problems, no, they are problems, yes, we have a permissible problem because here is the parliament, the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe , nato, the osce, they supported this idea, france has already started work on the creation of this special tribunal. in relation to the persecution of the top military-political leadership of the tribunal - this is not about the military serviceman, it is about the top military-political leadership, what is gerasimov and putin and so on. and these countries have to determine to sign a certain agreement that they will ensure the prosecution of these persons in relation to whom an investigation will be carried out and

a review will be carried out after the sentence is passed by, say, this court, so what is the problem with the permanent functioning international criminal court in the hague, but he does not carry out, let's say, the consideration of cases in absentia in the absence of the relevant person, and as a result, he is not an effective state today, well, we do not talk about him and do not appeal to him at all, practice rulings in the last two decades , in my opinion, the decision was made, but only in the presence of a person who stops before the court, and a special tribunal can be held in absentia , a special tribunal. conditionally includes frameworks or codes according to which justice will be administered, and one of the forms is the implementation of prosecution in absentia, because it is possible. yes, within the framework of absenteeism, a warrant pri- priz- sufficiently collected evidence base

in relation to the specific