and what kind of ukraine is in nato if the hostilities are on the territory of ukraine yes, ukraine does not recognize the loss of its territory and without the logical conclusion of these hostilities, nato becomes such a illusory perspective, who can this and there is a change in the world architecture when the hostilities continue or territories are all uncontrolled, ukraine is already in nato, we couldn’t expect much after february 2022, well, i expected, we waited . maybe it’s just on the threshold of some kind of such a security revolution. he is a person who can see such revolutions . i don't know, i'm not ready to say. i know that with the eu it's easier to solve the issue there, because we have a precedent of cyprus. yes, it's divided there, and they promised victor to hold a referendum and join the turkish part. they simply deceived the european union. we can no longer

deceive the european union from each other. that is, you can do it once in your life, once or twice. well, i don't know, of course, maybe we are so lucky, but i don't really believe it, then you know one way or another. the so-called republic of turkey it is controlled in northern cyprus turkey, not turkey, not russia, in any case, there are negotiations, delegations , meetings, a process. what is this? you see how it looks. well, i think that it is very interesting processes. i will start it literally at the end of january, at the beginning of february, and i still hope so that we will win strategically, we will have time to do something very painful in some direction, and this was quite clearly stated in the interview of zaluzhnogo , and i just know some things, well, but i can't

tell you on tv. i know all these tricks. thank you oksana viktor, then we will wait for the end of january, victor yagun, major general of the service of security of ukraine, former deputy head of the security service of ukraine and now we are in touch with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009, the head of the russian research center, volodymyr hrytsk. greetings, mr. volodymyr. greetings, mr. vitaly . good evening, i have already started discussing with viktor yegon, who was before you on the air kissinger's so-called plan. i don't think it's a plan at all. it's just sketches and considerations. but i think we should analyze it in detail with you. we have opportunities because there are contradictory points, so before we analyze it plan, i'll tell you what i noticed, what i consider to be a historical event, realistically, i would tell you, tell me i noticed that the singer was the first time in history, the first time , i'm telling you, i say this responsibly, i called ukraine a state of central europe, i always

said that as soon as ukraine shows that it is capable resist russia seriously and they will immediately stop being considered an eastern european country and will be considered the same country of central europe just like poland or the czech republic or slovakia and do you remember that in the years of our youth , poland was also the czech republic and slovakia and hungary countries of eastern europe, no one even mentions it anymore. this is central europe, and i always thought that we were also central european. but for this, we need to say that we will never be russia, and this fixation took place. maybe we can now also call ukraine a central european country with you. why should only cysts do this, well, look, do you remember here, then the question is purely geographical. well, of course, what can we proceed from that, but you asked about our youth and youth that europe, er, ends somewhere at in the urals, if we take it purely as a biography, and if we talk about politics, then what is europe

in the urals, there is a solid asia, asia, even i would say so on ukrainian soil. well, you cannot be a central european country without the center of europe, an eastern european country, that's right. well , here we are with you again let's take the geographical aspect. yes, if we take the political aspect, then of course there are certain moments, i would not consider russia, even the european part, to be europe, because what kind of europe is there? believe me, after what we are already seeing, i think uh, you have to forget about it a little bit, but after all, it’s a theoretical excursion, as they say, a geography excursion. and what seems important to me, uh, what, uh, what comrade pischinger once again suggested to me seems to me to be one of the last attempts of moscow at least in some way to find support for this smooth thing and somehow

turn the situation around, because you and i see and understand that it is becoming catastrophic for the kremlin, so now they will involve everyone who is possible and not possible in order to try. well, somehow, at least under cover there is already oxygen by the kissingers, there are uh-uh plugs, whatever you want, try to return to that dream pause and then you will see. i think that putin does not have any strategy, he does not have any understanding, uh, what to do strategically next. therefore, now, such tactical steps can be taken something, somehow, somewhere in the future, for which it will be possible to get caught , in my opinion, this is the same case, well , look, kitziger says that ukraine should become part of the north atlantic security system, that is, in fact, a member of nato. i very much imagine that putin is ready to exchange such a illusory pause for

ukraine's membership in nato. because it is not at all clear here from which positions to interrupt the pause with nato to fight, but to me, putin does not seem like a person ready to fight, well, mr. vitaly, you are again, uh, looking at the situation from the point of view from the point of view of a decent western person who fulfills what he promises is already a man, you and i know that putin does not make any promises that he makes or signs bargain now namely pause namely well the ability to reformat something somewhere, wait to see, and so on. now he can promise that ukraine will become the first nato country. well, why not, and then he gives a stem , he didn’t say, and it’s all lies and all provocations of the american special services. well, we’ve already done this

many times we passed and we know how to trust putin well, i would say that trust putin no no, i'm talking about something else and ukraine was accepted into nato, what to do after that, what to do if ukraine is accepted into nato, it will determine that russia ends at that moment again well, russia which is no less in today's form and in today's configuration, so to speak. this is obvious , so i think that here is more. the west as moscow's game. it seems to me that this should be perceived very carefully and through the prism of the same things that we

just discussed with you. do you think that the very assessment of ukraine as the most influential state in central europe favors the interests of moscow? i think that the question here is not about those say good things what kind of baits are there in this proposal, you rightly emphasized that central europe is actually central europe, although it is so, these are things that, i'm sorry, you won't take in your hands, this bait is much more weighty relative nato is just to the point that ukraine is part of the western world and so on and so forth, but again, you understand all this under the condition of fair play. well, um, uh, you were uh, and you had a lot of experience working in russia, even though i never lived there but

i had the misfortune to communicate with this audience for a very long time and i just understood one banal thing the truth is that everything that is signed with russia makes no sense. if it cannot be ensured by force, then actually it can be some kind of certain guarantee that one day it can be concluded with russia. although, on the other hand, why do we proceed only from the fact that russia is something permanent and that is unchanged. by the way, this is a topic that the west does not want to take into account and understand that there are also many peoples who have the same right to independent existence as the conditional french, germans, spanish or portuguese. and why do they not have such a right peoples living in russia federations and why? are they

actually denied such a right in the west, as they were denied to us , in particular, before the collapse of the ussr, from the mouth of the former elder or the same magician of the caves, the story of their truth was not listened to because what other political figures claim, and what we are the objective factors in the development of this history, and so on. in my opinion, not only in my opinion, russia is exhausting itself in this uh, current position. membership i think that in order for the west to support the very idea of ​​self-determination of the peoples of russia, at least some of these peoples should talk about this independence at the institutional level, ukrainians, as you remember in the late 80s and early

90s this is an insectoid level, they had a declaration of sovereignty praised in our parliament. of the national congress, which also spoke about the sovereignty of kazakhstan, this will be the case. i apologize. the verkhovna rada of tatarstan also adopted a declaration of sovereignty then. these were institutional matters. now, even at the level of the state, which was essentially the only russian republic that declared itself institutionally , we do not see such statements. we do see strong national organizations, and i have quite serious fears about the moment until the peoples of russia themselves will not assert their rights. no one will do it for them. no, we will not the west, well, this is the truth, which is actually, uh, what kind of

parentheses, vladimir, because two wars and uh, carpet bombings, oh, oh, hunting for activists in all countries of the world, this is a special story, i’m arguing here. well, i agree with your reservations, but we never say, but because everything can be, you know, there are very serious internal contradictions , everything is wrong in chechnya itself, it clearly seems from the outside that kadyrov created the image of an invincible match, but this is far from a fact that he is so invincible there are a lot of people in emigration of chechens who are doing a good job in the sense that the world

community will turn towards the independent chechen republic and so on, but it seems to me that the question is not even that. the question is how quickly moscow will begin to lose its influence on the regions and you know these circumstances to me. it even seems that here it is possible that the first violin will be played not by the national formation on the territory of the russian federation, but perhaps by the territorial ones, which, feeling that the center no longer controls the situation with the huge they will be happy to say why does moscow continue to feed us? we heard this slogan in the early 1990s and late 1980s, so it continues to go through the territory of the russian federation, and when the same urals or siberia or the far east will understand that he will be able

to live quite well economically without the instructions of the tyrants from moscow, so i think that there will be a combination of both territorial and national aspects that can undermine this very pseudo-russian unity. very casually and then for myself it has been punished repeatedly that there are 2,000 territorial disputes between the subjects of the russian federation, let's imagine what this means for the territorial integrity of russia when the federal so-called center, that is, the moscow colony, ceases to govern under the mandated territories, this is a very large pot to count, and here it is even small chechnya or small adygea or big yakutia can play, well, i don’t

see the difference in principle, it can be an extremely powerful internal russian explosion . the armed forces of ukraine will remain. i am convinced of this and i do not see any other better stimulator of these processes. thank you, mr. volodymyr volodymyr hrytsko, the former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, the head of the russian research center, with such a well- founded analysis of what can happen on the territory of the russian federation itself as a result of putin's adventures against ukraine now we will talk about world ukrainianism, first of all an important topic and our guest on this broadcast, the president of the world congress of ukrainians pavlograd, welcome to the communication of the council so, the delegation of the world congress of ukrainians was recently in ukraine to meet with representatives of the military command, with the leaders of the orthodox

church of ukraine, the ukrainian greek catholic church, what were the results of your visit? what did you agree on with the army and the church? uh, we need equipment that we uh, how many congresses of ukrainians together with all our organizations in the world collect uh and collect funds for the armed forces of ukraine we have already transferred more than 40 million dollars worth of equipment to this aid. we just transferred it in those days when we were in ukraine and it is constantly passing. what are their needs, and the second is, and they should announce that world ukrainianism we stand together with the 65

million ukrainian people. we stand behind them and we will constantly stand up for them. ukraine and that we care about them and will protect them, support them in any way possible, then our visit was aimed at handing over this equipment to them, to give them a big thank you and low except for the division of the world ukrainian and from the first frankly from the whole civilized world in the bush that stands behind them e and also to hear from them, to hear from the rank-and-file soldiers , is it in the military? is it the eyes that fail the training, how do they have a sense of what they need, and i have to say to vitaly that i was very pleased to hear even at the combat positions where we went out to communicate that it is not easy for them, far from easy, but they are

motivated, they are disciplined, they are positive and our military has a very positive culture . did anyone meet, well, through the military bloc or from the diplomatic bloc, with the minister of foreign affairs, purely with the head of the church, to hear the real situation in ukraine and give him a sense of how people are, how people are, he was very important for us to communicate with those people, how can we, like all of the congress of ukrainians, if you are ukrainian, additionally help them, because every facet of the phases of this war is changing, the first phase was the need for bulletproof vests and fairy tales, today, we need something else, we need armored vehicles, we need something else, that's why we constantly list which ones are the most

there are needs for ukraine, on this very day you announced the company, winter is near, it is a sacrifice just like donations for equipment for the defenders of ukraine, could you tell in more detail about this company, how in any sense it should be adapted to the collection of funds for the situation we have today, that is, in most of the war. we want our donors , ukrainians and friends of ukraine in the world to hear what is most important. i am hearing today that it is winter and that we need to help our military could not only withstand but win during this wartime and what they specifically need and therefore it was very important for us to feel again from the rank and file from the leaders so that we continue to collect funds so that we can strengthen our armed forces because they are on the front lines there it is cold there

it is difficult and that's why they have to get our help, we brought warm boots and drinks to keep warm and next we have to call to help them in the next offensive, this is again armor armor cars so that we can help them on the battlefield just like this. this yura company is a kind of ukraine , winter is with us, to call on them to be generous with their donations, tell me in general how you evaluate the activities of the diaspora to help ukraine, in particular, what ukrainian organizations in various countries of the world are doing today for those e- e refugees which were forced to leave the territory of our country due to military danger. i am very happy to present that wherever i am, whether it is poland or belgium, great britain, canada, the united

states, australia, argentina, portugal in every country in every country without exception our communities are very actively involved in supporting refugees in each country, a little differently, one thing was very important, first of all from a political point of view, that we ensure social protection on the part of the governments of the countries where we live more than 60 countries of the world in order to be social and humanitarian e support they fell into the mess of the russian measure, which is being erased and, by the way, is very actively working in all countries, in particular in europe, we see that ukrainians are being drawn into

this russian russian mess, where they are trying to create this russian measure all over the world, and this also includes work of the russian orthodox church, which is very active, as we all know, the department of the fsb, to attract those ukrainians to itself , that is why we met with our hierarchs, er, with the more nutritious pyphans and the blessed svyatoslav, to discuss this issue, because we see it every day er our countries and we see how the church can help how our church can help and that it is needed more they just discussed how we can strengthen the work of our churches and religious organizations because as we know e-e brotherhood - this is very important and specially those who have suffered are those who are grieving for their relatives who are at home. they themselves may be

going through psychological trauma, and therefore the church and public society in today 's work to strengthen and support refugees and tkach to create conditions so that they can return to ukraine is also very it is important even with schooling for young people, for young ukrainians recently received information that a russian citizen, igor kutin, was executed by odesa residents who spoke in the city of abakando. he lives against russia's war and is accused of treason from ukraine. and this i am once again talking about what is happening with ukrainians in the russian federation. how do you assess the current situation with the ukrainian diaspora in russia and what can be done to help those representatives of this diaspora who express a strong reaction to the activities of the russian state and to russian aggression, as we have already mr. vitaliy spoke more than once

about this case, it is very, very serious. we saw before the war that active ethnocide was committed against ukrainians and ukrainian organizations, as an unwanted organization, all of our constituent organizations had criminal cases filed that is, it is, it is not. it is a new matter for our community, not for our community. since the 14th year, today they are completely living underground now, and this is a very difficult situation for them, including the ukrainian community in belarus. we keep in touch, but very carefully very discreetly so that they know that we take care of them and the most important thing is that we also so that the world understands and knows that this is not what this is one russian bombing genocide against ukrainians in ukraine but it also happens in russia well , what can we put on the light

to shed light on the fact that this ethnocide against ukrainians is going on inside russia is very harsh. what can be done in principle now so that the world congress of ukrainians helps in the plans for the revival of ukraine and economic recovery? what are the possibilities of the

canadian government? friends of ukraine made similar assemblies so that ukraine would also have ukrainian business, well , access to uh, low funds, uh, financing, so that they could continue to rebuild, rearrange their own factories, in order to help today's situation, this is one of the many examples that we continue to work on to strengthen today's economic economy, the economy, and most importantly, the most

important thing today is that the world does not relax regarding the guarantees of loans that are given today , the 18 billion dollars that the european union has submitted will be constantly needed and it is possible that the public society everywhere in the world supported ukraine, because without this and support from civil society, it will not be given to the native, it is our role that we could ensure high and high support among citizens of those countries so that politicians are forced to continue to help ukraine both militarily and economically and politically and please tell me in principle how much you can now talk about the contacts between the ukrainian diaspora and the ukrainian authorities, what needs to be done in order to identify these contacts contact contacts exist and i i say that at the highest level we are constantly in touch, including with the office of the president, including with the office of the prime minister , and a series of ministers, that is, the door for us is

always open, we are open to cooperation we don't agree, we don't use their time in vain, the most important thing is what we did, we didn't come to the meeting with him, we came to try to understand and move on, is one step, for example, is it the main priority with which we returned from of ukraine and immediately began to work. this reconstruction is suddenly the reconstruction of the restoration of the energy energy infrastructure and we are starting the energize ukraine duck come project, we will work it out with the ministry of energy and ukrenergo so that it actively works with producers of electricity and equipment all over the world to urgently provide ukraine with this equipment that is needed to update transformers, such different things, so that they

understand what the need is and that we can immediately deliver this equipment for the reconstruction of infrastructure today for ukraine thank you mr. pavlo pavlo grot, the president of the world congress of ukrainians, killed us on the air after the trip of the sgu delegation to ukraine and we perfectly understand how important it is now to consolidate world ukrainianism for assistance to the ukrainian state in this difficult situation in which it is at the moment of confronting russian aggression, there are many other tasks that need to be solved, and the military aid that we talked about, and assistance in the reconstruction of the infrastructure and the need to help ukrainians survive this difficult winter, we we know that the russian political military team below has many plans aimed at destroying a state hostile to vladimir putin, and vladimir putin is ready to act here, we see that with the zeal of a fanatic he

hatred of ukraine while he has the strength and resources, he will do everything possible to destroy this state and bring it to complete economic degradation, everything possible must be done so that nothing like this happens, and this is also the task of our compatriots abroad, the task of all people of goodwill who will now understand to what level of crimes has russia's war in ukraine already reached? we perfectly understand with them that this is not yet the final level of escalation, and it will rise with every new day of vladimir putin's understanding that he cannot achieve his ambitious plans which he has set for himself for february 2022, we will talk about all this in the next hour, and now we will pass on the words of my colleague ani eva melnyk, who will provide you with information in the last hours together with the news service from the press, please