uh, it's true that all the large ships of the soviet fleet were built in mykolaiv . with the possible exception of nuclear missile cruisers of the kirov type, they were built uh. well, then leningrad, then st. petersburg. and we, the city of mykolaiv, really have unique natural conditions that allowed us to build there over the course of several centuries, such a very, very developed and convenient construction base, and the quality of these works was very serious. i know that, for example, the indian naval forces had kashin-type frigates, this is the 61st project, i once met with the commander of the ministry of the interior of india, and he was the commander of the first ship, so they still use them until now, that is, technologically, there really were a lot of people who were not

like that. the need for aircraft carriers for the future is, first of all, money, and the budget for one american aircraft carrier is 3 billion dollars per year, that is, 3 billion dollars for 5,000 people, so that this aircraft carrier can be used at sea, we need it . the annual budget was 3-4 billion i. before the start of the war it was very good because we crossed the threshold of a billion dollars somewhere in 2011, for this it was even less, here is the aircraft carrier, then what tasks we have to look at, what are the prospects of ukraine as a country where its national interest is, that is, in my opinion, it is very serious now to ensure control in

in the territorial sea of ​​ukraine exclusively in the maritime economic zone. we know that at the beginning of the 2000s, mineral resources of gas were found in the northwestern part of the black sea, and they were estimated at two trillion cubic meters of gas, if even assume that we will use under 50 billion, how can we use gas so generously when it was cheap, then we will have enough of it there for half a century. well, there is a very serious one there, and we need to protect it, and one of the reasons why russia has become so active in the northern the western part of the black sea why does it need an island of change just to give it to ukraine and romania and otsi to extract minerals because it will be a competition for them to talk about

andria i apologize mr. vladyslav is forced to interrupt you because we still have ivana klympush sensadze and we need to talk about diplomacy not only about military affairs but i thank you very much mr. vladislav, mr. ryzhenko vladislav , because the very large discussion calmed me down and i feel about what is happening in bakhmut and here are some such reassuring words. thank you to both excellent experts and we will move on to the international international order of the day ivan klympush-sensad from the people's deputy of ukraine, the head of the committee on the integration of ukraine into the eu mrs. ivanna good health thank you for finding time on saturday evening with us i'm asking to talk. good evening. look at the first question. all the questions will be rather theoretical and such. well, we don't hold a candle. we can only guess. we can only guess. we can only guess, but we will start with

macron's statement that ukraine will not join nato soon. but we remember let's go to march of the same year, when it is faster that ukraine does not get such and such weapons at all, then suddenly it does. the european union, that is, macron is simply deviating in his diplomatic work, trying to please putin, trying to somehow restrain ukraine, and in fact, it is too early to talk about joining nato, about the decision to join nato, tell me your point of view. well, you know, we have already heard various statements by the french president, which are over those who are quite skeptical from the point of view of

our european euro-atlantic integration, but as you rightly noted, the candidacy also seemed impossible, even i will tell you not only in january or february even in march, and even at the beginning of june, it wasn’t there. exactly. we have this on the table and we all had to work very hard to make it happen, so i am convinced that it is the statement is today's perception, and hmm, which unfortunately remains so, mr. president of france, regarding the future of our membership and the european, er, north atlantic alliance, but this does not mean that we have children and fold our hands or simply have to say well, you see us, they say that they are not waiting for us again in the alliance, it's good that the government i took this serious step when i applied

for the alliance in the next round. well, many people have forgotten this, but three years ago, i could have said that we should apply and they said that this step is not necessary at all, and that is already the case. it is clear that we submitted it by our decision in 2008 and they say that we laid it in the constitution. well, but it is good that times are changing, the only thing is that it is necessary to work very, very seriously in this direction with partners and, above all, what would we do now it was necessary to focus on it prioritization and internal, including the agenda in order to fulfill all those things that, in addition to military compatibility, to which we are just taking drastic steps through the e-e efforts of our defense forces, so that we do our homework with regard to the

political e-e political part of the obligation "things that are fundamentally important before the introduction of balsa, but so far i do not see this work on the part of the ukrainian authorities and the insistence to our partners that let's define there a clear list of those things that we need so that we can calculate after the end of the war on the first day of the adoption of a political decision similar to the one that was adopted in relation to finland and sweden for ukraine to join nato, so there is much to work on both inside the country and obviously with such skeptical partners as the faction we remember that in 2008 it was france and germany that played the role that did not allow georgia to receive an action plan regarding membership, and only a promise was made that one day we would become members of the alliance and the next step would be providing us with an action plan regarding membership,

we see that today it is possible to become members of the alliance without this action plan. therefore, we need an internal action plan agreed with our partners that would simply allow us to work on those changes which are fundamentally necessary in the rule of law and in order to ensure real control and supervision of the security and defense system, which is fundamental and from the point of view of observing democratic rules and freedoms , many, many other things, ms. i have exactly you at the end of the answer, thank you just for her they touched on my next question that i wanted to ask, and the question is the nation as a whole. it seems to me that it does not understand these non-military components of joining nato, that is, it is possible

to complain about the government, but you can also complain about the opposition, that is, some kind of explanatory work for an ordinary person it's not clear, just an ordinary person says, oh, nato is a war, oh, we know how to fight, western weapons are coming, oh, we learned, oh yeah, we understood the task here, it's clear that there were a lot of troops, that they should be trained and that there should be a lot of weapons, there is no questions, everyone understands this. and this rule of law is such an abstraction for an average citizen who is now walking down the street of lviv or kyiv and he is sitting. and what should i speak ? what should i say during sociological research there? oh, i am too much. i don't understand. weapons, and the other half, this is supremacy, this is supervision, which supervision, who should supervise, how should he supervise - simply, these are all institutions that are not understandable for a ukrainian, do you not think that it is necessary to somehow, well

, involve society in understanding, discussing , precisely these problems and the power of its positions when we were in the government. when i worked in the government , we started such an information campaign. we allocated funds as a state to clarify and gradually increase our understanding of that . of the north atlantic alliance between it is a pity that in the 19th year these programs were essentially curtailed. such an approach that they say the leadership of ukraine does not enter where they are not invited. well, it was roughly like this, and this was blackmail, regarding what they said, why, why, why

are we still not in nato, and it was wanted it's time for president zelensky to ask president bayten, he did it through, through, through the american media, not the most effective way, as far as i'm concerned. hmmm, i think you're wrong when you say that ordinary citizens don't understand what the rule of law is. everything is very, very clear to me it seems to be precisely for the rule of law precisely for this sense of justice and equality of all before the law, and ukrainians went to the maidan at least precisely in 2014, and these are the things that ukrainians are very well aware of, we want to achieve that a-a hmm it would be impossible if you are not guilty and because of some corruption schemes you will be sentenced to prison and if you are guilty it is impossible to find so that it is impossible

to find those ways and those loopholes or bribes by which you can turn away from responsibility it is so simple and it is about the rule of law that concerns others things in relation to supervision in relation to control of transparency i think that precisely the war additionally er-er ukrainian society because our tolerance to any abuses er-er our tolerance and perception of er-er possible abuses they are not just equal to zero minus yes and this means that as public supervision should be based on the system of defense security, as well as parliamentary supervision here, unfortunately, we also need to work in order to return the parliament to its proper place in principle, according to the constitution, and so that it is the center of acceptance decisions and the center of influence in the state, because the ukrainian parliament has repeatedly played such a

serious role during our recent history when it protected the state, when it gave it the opportunity to preserve democratic power, that is why i believe that it is fundamentally necessary, but positive and civil society, which is now actively included in the volunteer movement is included in the assistance to the armed forces and territorial defense forces on law enforcement officers who are also fighting today and border guards or national guardsmen or policemen and they everyone understands that they they very clearly supervise those expenses and those donations that are given to them by other citizens or other international organizations, well

, it will work for a long time in the same way. the question for the federation before such negotiations is that biden will determine how you and i are in general. well, you might be able to do it better. and here is how i understood that putin is ready . are these his words or are these his activities or the cessation of any active hostilities? shelling of ukraine, that is, if biden had already said i am, well, how do we figure it out, what is it , what is it supposed to be, what kind of dance with sabers should putin dance, what did the world say, and biden said, and ivana kalympush sensation and mykola he, and this is exactly now putin is ready to win ah well, i am convinced that it is not about any words because the words of the kremlin leader are worth absolutely nothing, he says one thing but means something else and does an absolutely third. therefore, it is definitely about actions, it is about actions. of the russian federation in relation to

in relation to precisely these military actions of this war and the so-called special operation that they are conducting against the ukrainian population against the ukrainian people against the ukrainian state against ukrainian society and what a list of those specific things to testify to the readiness for victory well, it is difficult for me to say what i mean the united states of america, but i am convinced that this is a large complex of things, that it is not a single thing, starting, for sure, with some steps to demilitarize the zaporizhzhia territory, the zaporizhzhia npp, the cessation of shelling of the civilian population throughout the country and this horror of terror that the russian federation is sending to us every day in different ways in different cities and this is ah well, for sure the real ability to withdraw its troops from

the territory of ukraine is obvious that none of we do not see this readiness for victory today. thank you ivan klympush sensad for the people's deputy of ukraine, the head of the committee on the integration of ukraine into the european community and we from the united states will now try to move to iran, well at least how to move without contemplative not physically but and even contemplative ones do not come out yet because oleksandr samarskiy, a diplomat, the ambassador of ukraine just went to the islamic republic of iran from the 10th to the 14th year, an expert center for the study of russia. do you evaluate zelenskyi's visit to the usa just to the previous topic , will it have a real declarative result, do you understand in diplomacy and in the work of the first persons

, uh, every declarative result is a real result simply of the mood of the opinion of the congress of congressmen if zelenskyi with try to convince one congressman or one congresswoman or one senator or one senator alone, this is already a great success, this is exactly the real result, because tomorrow they are going to vote for some budgets , the day after tomorrow for some weapons, the day after tomorrow they will call on the world for some help by his decisions , etc. can become an absolute reality, that's why it's easy to weigh here, it's not worth it. and i congratulate oleksandr,

a diplomat from samara. ukraine sent him to the islamic republic of iran from the age of 10 to 14. he is an expert at the center for the study of russia. good health, mr. oleksandr. thank you for finding time on saturday. the first question is important. how you assess the situation with the so-called revolution at least a month ago, and two months ago they said it was a revolution, now there is some kind of more or less silence around it all, how active is civil society there and how high is the activity of the guardians of the islamic revolution who oppose this society and how strong is the regime there, mr. oleksandr, and the turbulence that we are currently observing in eurasia from my point of view well, it more or less regularly accompanies

domestic political life in the country , dozens have been on sale for two years now, we see a sufficiently significant protest potential . of course, from the point of view that this protest potential that exists in iran is very difficult to erase it on some ideology that united the society, the only ideology that exists now is the ideology of islam, the religion and its adherents. there are extremely many there cannot be something like anti-communism as it was uh, in the former ussr and the ideology that began to be professed in the larger republics

, all this does not work there, the country has quite a lot of sanctions in order to maintain uh, this repressive apparatus of resources in the country , the authorities still do not have enough. so i don't think what are protest actions despite the fact that they are still intensifying. if we consider over these 20 years that they will lead to some revolutionary changes in iranian society in the near future, it is an authoritarian state. at night, i would add, i was in the morning several times and thought while walking there on different avenues, which is worse in a stalinist

communist country or in an islamic country, i will tell you frankly and i am not telling you this i have come to the conclusion and defended this opinion since these days that it is much better to live in iran because in iran you can correct me later if you are an orthodox shiite if you have a persian gut, as it were, a persian psycho you are a persian and a shiite and you go there like you have to walk you learn how you have to study you support the government you actually have no chance of going to prison you are a normal normal loyal citizen unlike the stalin era and the communist era in general as long as you can be orthodox communists you can love the party you can shout glory to the great stalin, you can slander predatory imperialists. but the nkvd or the kgb will come and

ask you to be arrested for any opinion you have . in the soviet union or even modern russia, much more than in the islamic republic, where if you don't go out into the street, don't shout, don't say go away, then go ahead and buy bread there. well, there is not much to eat. so in the soviet union, too, they ate so much. people who you will say to that, mr. oleksandr well, that's it your assessment is absolutely absolutely correct , moreover, i would say even so, well, at least during the time when i was in the middle class of iran , its standard of living is much higher than the standard of living of the middle class in ukraine, you understand

, the junctions and roads that we see in tehran are higher there were many things that they did not dream of, well, the country is really rich, it is not state capitalism, as it was in the soviet union, it is a monopoly, it is a developed market economy, developed private business , very few, many private businessmen, and yes next and what's more, this is not the soviet union, you can take it and go abroad n about 1 million iranians live and nothing is normal and more and more regularly go there to study, especially doctors come back and have their practices and so on and so on and so on but people, with the standard of living they have, the way they manage the country is not satisfactory. as they say, well, yes, yes, yes, i was there in

the 90s, when i was there, i said then that our , uh, older people and young people, i am with them they said that we definitely were we are against shakha, we are against short skirts , but we never thought that the hijab would become the norm, and we don't want hijabs either. well, whoever wants to, let them wear it, but we are not for compulsion, and we would like such a soft islam, and not the one that exists now. this what i remember from the 90s are these conversations with local citizens, which is now, of course, i am weak, the religion is famous all the more from the point of view of studying islam, but if you look at the cultural heritage and wound, then this islam has very little in common with what was islam in iran 100

200, 300, 400 years ago, he is different, when islam turned from a religion into an ideology that is planted by political methods and force methods and force methods , all this is followed. at the top, who are the iranians married to, are they persians or muslims, what is the top priority? what kind of people do they put first, muslims ? at the top, they tried to put the persians first. we are the first. and then islam is to eat. we have islam. we have a very large, deep culture

. there are many, many stories. we must come out of it and not just with words. or persian culture of two or three thousand years ago, this is not something that the opposition can rely on. i have not yet seen an ideology that would help the opposition precisely in the ideological struggle against the current government, the lyrical government. i would suggest that you tell me about what are you sumerians and as an alternative to both the first and second options, mr. oleksandr, but this story with the help of russia and modern iran, who can really help ukraine so that russia does not receive from iran the fact that it receives those weapons, those missiles and so on the next

country i know is israel, but it is still well, the bombs are indeed there, they fall somewhere, but not so actively, but it is really possible to do something . the supply of some components of these missiles, these drones, and there is no advice for it, what can you say almost from the end, such a replica is a black market, a bottle of vodka on this black market costs somewhere around $70-100. and this black market is overseen by the same guardians of the islamic revolution, and the top, first of all, receives all the excess profit. with this, these trade transactions, this is the first, second, i don't like your

question, well, your question has been asked, i explain why it has been asked, who will help us, what should we see, what are you lysans, this is israel but the united states howled sanctions against those companies for the supply of drones to the eurosoy station britain bicycle and they themselves did it again when it turns out like under poroshenko you remember the european union imposed sanctions against russia and ukraine joined them so do they need it or not let's figure out the president declares that they put or then they bought more than 2,000 drones, which are now killing our citizens, immediately the foreign affairs minister submitted a submission to the president well, not immediately, three days passed before diplomatic relations were broken, i explain to the audience what a discharge is

diplomatic relations, this means that we do not have friendly relations with this country. this country is hostile to us. diplomatic relations have been broken. no , our head of the gur is now declaring about the main intelligence department about what else is going on. was the 1700 bought ? sanctions what have we done so that they would protect their lands as a passenger that we p oleksandr i understand now we only have one minute left but we will make it and what can we do besides diplomacy we have some the circulation of goods, we can stop something, hit the business in some way and in this way say hello to the iranians. you will be like that. rubik

's has now fallen for us because of the review of these sanctions. by the way, i will say that the sanctions were those that were previously introduced. the game with them was pushed by an iranian employee from russia. there is no pro-russian sentiment in the society, but the turnover is now somewhere around 700 million, and this is their 50, our 650 is the supply of various scarce agricultural products to zhytomyr, this is our a140 plane, which is iran's 140, this is the supply of compressors, this is in fact, the nuclear power plant where they work and which we were not allowed to build, where ukrainian specialists work. maybe they got russian passports, but we can impose sanctions against them. this is the embassy, ​​which was bought here for pennies, and there are precedents in international practice. when they changed it, and we have no dishes there we rent, we throw money to the wind, there is international practice that is possible