the invasion said everything is not, now we are against war , everything is like that. there is no such thing. of course, there are certain tendencies to strengthen the peaceful moods of such people. i asked the bottomless, what are the moods , but this tendency is not very obvious. всё заметно очень now you know. let the fact that they seem to have re- established this mobilization, the population somehow got a little bored . they say that they are so against it. i think that in order for the population to really understand what it is all about, it should be necessary to have another, more likely, large-scale defeat of the russian army in ukraine and new waves of mobilization. that is, this fear and anxiety to it was converted into such sharp active anti-war today it is still necessary

for the quantity to change to the quality called for it to be even more affected even more mobilized even more to enter from the war from the fronts oh, what a terrible state they are in these are mobilized yes and somehow everything is bad so that the end of the russians is not just provided for, but they said that they will not drink. at the beginning of the new year, it will happen. and here's what, by the way, the number of contract workers wants to increase to 1.5 million, and it is possible that the base of people is interested. they lured everything with graphic buns of russians in the army under the contract and indeed, well, many of them gave in. regions went to fight with me

. such a feeling, but based on information, that is, on open sources, including that they could not use the text in the conditions of the war. - they have already gone, and there are very few ideologues for people’s unity, so we don’t count on them at all, so who, that’s why i think that there is no well, they will increase not at the expense of the contract, but at the expense of the mobilized and it will happen, not too much vremenitaet, thank you for this conversation , thank you to our guest igoreydn, a russian sociologist, political expert, publicist, was on our program at this hour, we will now return to the air. literally by number, we will listen to people suffering from rheumatism

. and arthritic, it is impossible to get used to it, it does not allow to move. i have tried everything a at the pharmacy i bought yellow cream dolgit, it saves me from pain in rheumatism, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility in joint and back pain christmas is a time when the usual things acquire miraculous properties, it is time to gather together to celebrate and we will decorate our christmas trees even in times of war, our christmas trees will become places of strength, we will celebrate christmas together with our military, all together we will become even stronger, and as in carols, light defeats darkness, so in life, ukrainians will defeat moscow's zayas, look with a sincere eye , in the son of god, on our land, on ukraine, a gift came down

from heaven, brought to glorify it forever, merry christmas, no matter what ukrainians think about, no matter what they talk about in the first place it still comes out war war and our victory seven days a week from monday to monday seven different spheres of human activity sports culture politics eight presenters espresso journalists experts opinion leaders in real time about the most current events through the prism of war every day author's projects nayspresso let's listen to people suffering from rheumatism but it is arthritic, it is impossible to get used to it, it does not allow me to move i tried everything

and at the pharmacy i bought a yellow cream dolgit, it saves me from the pain of rheumatism dolgit does it relieve pain or swelling and improve joint mobility dolgit is the only yellow cream for joint and back pain let's continue the saturday political club program anzhelika zozulenka and vitaly portnikov so let 's start with the first topic, today you already mentioned the interview of mineel macron, the leader of france, where he essentially stated that the entry of ukraine to nato is unlikely because of moscow and me and vitaliy, it actually outraged me, although we know macron's position, but it seemed to me that

after 10 months of a full-scale war , it's strange to be afraid of russia, because ukraine demonstrates such a small country, the army was small, it is comparable to france in comparison with the russian federation, and like we are beating the second army of the world, maybe this should have changed the position, you know, it should also be remembered that now 20% of our territory occupied by macron can come from that he needs to achieve the liberation of this territory. i simply believe that all this is utopia. that is why, from a logical point of view, if we say that it is necessary to provide guarantees for the security of ukraine and the security functions of russia, then we are going into a false russian logic, why ukraine is obvious needs a security guarantee why did russia attack it attacked russia destroys and destroys critical infrastructure russia occupied crimea and donbas in the 14th year russia occupied kherson zaporizhia oblast in addition to

donetsk luhansk oblast occupied if russia is really telling the truth and it started a special operation to liberate eh of the luhansk and donetsk people's republics, this is also absolutely idiocy, but let's at least go with this logic, why it annexes the kherson zaporizhzhia region and demands to recognize the real realities on the ground, well, from this point of view from this point of view, of course, if we want to provide security guarantees to ukraine, then so that it does not lose its sovereignty , does not lose its territory , now let's look at russia. and who is russia? i would like to know . russian territory. i don't see it. russia , uh, now really believes that it is too threatened. but why then did france vote for the acceptance of donations from finland? shvets

makrom should have said then, you know, i'm against the president of croatia is saying that he is in favor of finland and sweden being part of nato, and it's somehow strange, you know how these old and soviet jokes are played here, we're not playing here, we're turning the fish in if nato really threatens russia, then in principle it cannot be expanded, if possible to expand nato at the border in russia, then in this situation, of course , we cannot talk about the fact that ukraine, in its acceptance into nato, has something to scare russia. it is also a reality that macron knows, that macron harbors some plans to attack russia, or maybe scholz is just supporting putin, in this case, putin. he believes that if

putin is satisfied from the point of view of his rhetoric, then putin will calm down, but putin is not an idiot either, his rhetoric is not he uses this rhetoric to achieve specific goals on the ground, because rhetoric is what he says on tv, what he writes in some documents, the ministry of foreign affairs, and he achieves specific goals on the ground, this is the occupation of crimea, donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia region, the attempt to occupy kharkiv in the north of ukraine when they were in kyiv, near kyiv, in chernihiv oblast, in sumy oblast , this is on the ground and this is reality, and the aggressor cannot be given security guarantees because he does not need them, the aggressor needs to be expelled from the occupied territories, this is the first point, the second point is i honestly, i don’t understand why macron still hopes that he will agree on something with putin, for what reasons did macron try to agree with putin several

times in a row when there was a meeting of the group themselves in bereans, i remember it well because i was just there covering all these events, he suddenly invited putin that putin visited his residence, the bezoson castle, putin came, no real agreements came from this, there was no exit of russia from africa, which macron was counting on through these all gestures diplomatically did not take place, russia only sends its influence in africa, when putin came to macron, then russia had influence, first of all, on the central african republic, now it is already in the small second moment, macron was the initiator of the summit of the norman four in poland really wanted putin to come there well, not only he wanted volodymyr zelensky to be the president of ukraine, they both wanted it i didn't

always remember the eyes with which they looked, i already told you what merkel's angels told you about these two young people people are just like children who just put, you know, their hands in the wolf's mouth and watch it bite, don't bite, it's some funny dog, it's not a dog , emanuel, it's not a dog, it's a real wolf, and that's all, their behavior reminded me of both well, let's play around with the program, we played around , nothing came of it. i generally believe that the parisians are the normandy four. i don't blame macron for this, and i don't blame zelenskyi for this, 2019, and already on the 20th, i don't blame zelenskyi for this, because they are both possible they wanted to agree, they are not very experienced politicians, they had some illusions, you can't blame people for wanting to agree on something, but it ended in a fiasco and

by and large accelerated the big war. because putin in paris was sure that zelensky is not going to capitulate, he is convinced that merkel is supported by macron in this . let putin not tell fairy tales that he just read merkel's interview in dietside and found out that they wanted to deceive him , the kingdom is running away. only now, it turns out that he needs to read a newspaper, he has held the position of president of russia for 22 years because he learns about the news from german newspapers well, well , nothing came of it either, then if you remember on the eve of the war, macron flew to putin, do you remember this table putin time oh mahron also told him something about putin, for like two and a half or three hours, he read a lecture about the history of russia, nothing came of it. why does he think that he will succeed now? what did he come out of? he has a

positive experience. he succeeded here, he didn’t succeed, he doesn’t succeed all the time, if ukraine is taken over, then putin will start the third world war or something, i also wonder what putin will do, on the contrary, he will have the idea that if he continues military actions, then in principle he risks a conflict. the truth is, the only thing that needs to be said is that, as far as i understand, i have never discussed this issue. that ukraine can become a member of nato until the very end of the conflict, but there are options if ukraine becomes a member of nato, but the fifth article is not applied. actions are also an important option, but when bahron says at the same time, i carefully read this text that we can not give ukraine, let ukraine join nato in order not to annoy russia, but we have to

give it such serious security guarantees because she was attacked. but i want to know. are there serious security guarantees? they don’t annoy russia. well, i don’t understand such ones either. i think it’s all an illusion. we saw these offers by yarmaka groups, and it’s confusing. well, the offers are clear in order to have real guarantees . security, one of the nuclear countries should sign a formal agreement with ukraine, let's say there is a set of obligations that the united states has to the republic of china to taiwan that in the event of an attack on ukraine, this country is ready to fight together with ukraine back to back, but with putin for sure understands that he will meet here with the army of the united states of great britain. i generally believed that the most acceptable security model in order not to annoy anyone is ukraine's submission of ukraine's application to nato. this is what

finland did to sweden. its adoption is a donation, and unlike finland , sweden, the very process of ukraine's acceptance into nato can be slowed down until the end of the war , this model is all other models, but they, well, the russians still won't calm down, we need this to understand, we see it as empty, now putin said it so much. in this war, dana is integrated and he really has no other way out except to win, that he can fight as long as he wants, as long as he has enough people's resources. vitaly, there is another thesis that ot if in 2008 france and germany had not objected to the accession of ukraine and georgia then to nato, then russia would not have occupied south ossetia , abkhazia and the donbas, crimea, and now there is already 20%

of the territory of ukraine. we sign association agreement with the european union, then we immediately have a real perspective of european integration there, it turned out not to be the plan of actions for nato membership , after all, it is not an introduction to too much, well, let's imagine that in 2008, ukraine and georgia receive a plan for a clean nato, and this it could have been. i also believe that it should have been. and russia is taking over and attacking georgia, and the country is a member. they say that we will help georgia as a nato member. well, she has not yet fulfilled the plan. to attack if at all this process is more integrated in taking away some territories, that is, it remains. there are two approaches. the first approach is to transform an enemy state into a disabled country so that it cannot join nato,

the european union, but there is also a second approach if the enemy country is already on the way to nato of the european union maybe we need to bite off as much of it as possible, because then it will not be possible to bite off, this could accelerate the intervention in both of these countries and not stop it, we do not know how the head of the crimea will be, the kremlin would i tried to understand again, for example, with georgia, will the nato member countries fight, do you think they did, well, no, of course, this is not even provided for in the document if the kremlin starts to fight with georgia, as a member or as a non- member of nato, as a country that received a military coup and does not receive a real blow from nato, you are opening the way to the fastest possible invasion of ukraine, at least to take crimea, other goals may simply be set. if now the goal is the elimination of ukrainian statehood, then the goal could be, say, the occupation of the southern slopes

ukraine, then i would like to remind you of one more thing. are you sure that even if we received a plan for members and in 2008, somewhere in the 10th year, viktor yanukovych did not win the presidential elections, most likely not ? well, you understand that yanukovych did not give up i refused this plan, well, that's all, i don't want to just wonder what would have happened, because it 's very easy for us to blame france, germany, and i think we need to think about the fact that we had historical chances much earlier, the expansion of nato took place in 1997 and then continued until the third the fourth and if we found ourselves in the first wave of countries that were ready to join nato, let's say they said that yes, we are ready to give up nuclear weapons, but not for the budapest memorandum, but let us then be accepted into nato, and then we

did not have such a position and such a desire. no, we did not have society was against nato until 2014, the test must also be understood, you are a politician, viktor yushchenko, let's say, was a convinced euro-atlanticist well, what was left to answer as a result, people did not support this, the majority of ukrainians, even the patriotic ones, continued to live in to the soviet world, where nato is an aggressive block and only when it becomes clear, so you know, we can simply disappear from the political map of the world. people wanted to join nato not because it is about values, because they reconsidered their attitude to nato and to the aggressive block, because they realized that otherwise there will be rockets flying at my head, i remember these myths that oh , our boys will fight in some country, but in reality there are very few such situations, and even i. maybe you remember. of course, but we still take part in this in our peacekeepers in different countries are serving and now we are fighting on our own land regarding

medvedev's meeting with edinpin , mr. vitaly wanted to talk to you, and in fact, why did medvedev go at all? some international experts believe that putin does not want to speak zimpin because that leader of china demands from putin a specific plan for ending the so -called special military operation, i.e., the war in ukraine, and then he cannot provide it, and therefore he already refuses, so he treats it in isolation. as far as i understand , medvedev was in the kataba there were some colloquial conversations, including with the chinese, are already a lot of colloquial conversations. medvedev went to beijing, and he went with a closed visit, and this visit was announced only after it became known that zelensky was going to washington and russia, you immediately needed such a counterargument. here is your place and ours the united states supports you here, and china supports us. in general, i believe that this is a completely wrong approach to the matter. if i were a russian pr specialist, i would

do everything possible so that no one would find out about medvedev's visit, because we we understand very well that the size of ukraine is not comparable to the united states. the united states is the only superpower in the modern world. ukraine is one of the european countries with a territory not comparable to the united states with an economic potential that is not comparable , but russia also claims the status of a superpower. the president of russia wants to speak with the president of the united states on an equal footing. and why then russia is equated with ukraine in this equation, this is a mathematical equation, china is where the united states is and russia is where ukraine is talking to them from these zzempin, like a senior comrade, this visit was supposed to mean this is the first choice, the first dimension, we have a great ally, the second dimension, this bell , pin gave the order to intensify cooperation with russia, he may be against this war, he would like it to end

because it is now against the interests of the chinese economy, we we do not know at all what will happen to the chinese here, that china is now getting into such a mess that it is not known how it will end, by the way, even with you now, we have no idea what situation we are in in the world, to me this the situation is reminiscent of the first weeks of the coronavirus , do you remember when it started, and we were still with you, what were we thinking? maybe we should go somewhere, a trip in a month. in china, how many people are there now, they are saying something there, something is either 300 million or 30 million. i think that 300 million is simply that everyone has already forgotten about the coronavirus, then they did not mention it, if this number of people are sick, if at least one percent of these people die this is an account

goes to millions of people china simply gave up zero tolerance to the coronavirus means that new strains will appear, it means that in two or three months there may be a new epidemic of unknown scale in the world, but the center of this epidemic this time will not be europe or the united states, but itself china, and the damage to the chinese economy in this situation can lead to unforeseen consequences for the world economy, for the chinese economy, for the world economy. yes, we are on the threshold of this tsunami, we can already see it according to statistics, but we do not feel it yet, but i do not i rule out that we will feel it sometime in march or april, i am not sure about this, i assume that the coronavirus staged the disease so that it will not be a fatal disease, but if it turns out that this is not the case, then i am wrong, then in

the months of march and april, no one will especially remember about russia's war against ukraine, because people in russia will die by the hundreds of thousands , not because of the war, especially because their satellite is five o'clock in the evening, and such a person may appear to work against these new strains, china's problem is that there are no vaccines in china, we why are you and i talking about it like this? fell ill and were vaccinated, who how many times do we have a certain immunity from this from what is there and the chinese have nothing, do you remember we had a corona virus at the first stage, some kind of disease went somewhere, but it was not the panacea when all these first appeared no chinese, because at first and then there was an indian one when we bought a chinese share. this was the story of this minister of health, so famous stepanov, it turned out that it all does not work and chinese vaccines do not work effectively, and western vaccines should be zimpin not

wants to bury, that is, in fact, we are facing a new turning point in the life of civilization , when we said that hundreds of thousands of people would die, when it started now, yes, moscow two , 2023 may become the year of the great funeral, but, first of all, in asia, there is now a shortage of medicines in asian countries, in china there is no medicine before people who are chinese who get to some place in singapore or something else bury themselves with boxes of fever-reducing drugs, well, that is, we just don’t feel it, but there the apocalypse is coming and why is it all about that i am telling you that against the background of this apocalypse, all the calls are being met by the bear, and he absolutely does not want the chinese economy to die, that is why he does not want this war to end, to at least remove this negative canopy from the agenda, this is the second moment, the third moment from the domestic political bear

came to beijing the chairman of the united russia party to the general secretary of the central committee of the party by the chinese compact, this is a signal in moscow that medved is the second person in the state , that he meets with e-e city and gives putin's letter to him and he talks to him as an equal with an equal as the head of the ruling party with the head of the ruling party and not just some official from the entourage because recently medvedev is simply equated there, called an alcoholic , equated with someone who is a fool of putin, this happens all the time in our country for some reason it is accepted it is a good tone to tell that medvedev is an alcoholic and that he does not affect anything at all. it seems as if alcoholism prevented someone from killing people, even the russian media read and wrote about what putin is sending medvedev with some delegations, incomprehensible

diplomatic meetings that do not have such a regular character. yes, of course. and when medvedev came to luhansk, he presided over a meeting where all the security forces were there and they told him how they were going to occupy all of this, build all of this, it was a large-scale meeting, that's enough. before the meeting, medvedev spends enough time in meetings that position him as the second person in the state, because if putin wanted it to be otherwise, he would have sent misha, the mishmash of the russian prime minister, to china. it is logical that misushya could also be accepted by sisinpin and between shust, unlike the bear. he did not say that he meets him as an equal, it was the acceptance of the prime minister of russia by the head of the people's republic of china, a completely different situation. so i think that it is also such a signal if medvedev remains the heir . i am not saying that the only heir, but the most

obvious, and medvedev is a worse person than putin , you see that he has completely preserved. by the way, there was a funny incident. insider serhii ezhov published the reaction of a russian high-ranking official to his offer on twitter regarding medvedev's son ilya, because they are increasing the conscription age, medvedev's son ilya also falls under the prize and he wrote to medvedev , so your son ilya can be then medvedev will go to war, just after that he blocked him and what did they answer no, that's how they talk to such a respected check, yes, then we finish with medvedev, let's talk more about iran, because iran is through its minister of foreign affairs, if i'm not mistaken threatens zelenskyi because of his speech in the congress, where zelenskyi specifically said that tehran supplies weapons, in particular, drones

to the russian federation, to vitaly. why do they object, because now it is very easy to check whether it is whose drones it is, which is easy, but for some reason they want this too. by the way, it is necessary to analyze and why do they all want so much , on the one hand, they want to supply russia with weapons, iran, north korea, on the other hand, they do not want to be blamed for this. well, what are they doing? well, russia defends its interests in the fight against imperialism zelenskyi said this, the ministry of foreign affairs of iran is a puppet of the west, let him find out what happens to those who are oriented towards the united states, so what is so bad if you supply weapons that are also faster to drop in this area, what is the problem uhu, but i am a problem for them and for avitalikh for me and for uh, how do they every time they start saying that they are supplying weapons, they start making official statements, and even though

zelensky’s speech, the north korean foreign ministry reacts to every publication no, by no means how do you could think and what is that, what is the matter, well , russia is your ally and you are under all the stations that could be introduced against you, what are you afraid of? i think that they can get out of this s- in iran, at least from the point of view of the fact that they are anti-imperialist the state of the islamic republic was created by the ethologist hamani as a state that is fighting world imperialism with washington and moscow because these are imperialist states that are trying to spread their hemonia to the entire surrounding world. and then the question arises. why then you if one of these states, this second satan from moscow wants to spread his hegemony over a neighboring state, why do you help him where on