and that's all for today, me and the entire team of bbc news ukraine say goodbye to you, you will always find updated and verified information on our website bbc.ua and on our pages in social networks, and turn on our program on tuesday, january 3, see you in the new year for everything good and take care six movies tv port music education the free have a choice choose what you want on megogo

a time when ordinary things acquire miraculous properties a time to gather together to celebrate and we will decorate our christmas trees even in times of war our christmas trees will become places of strength we let's meet christmas together with our military , all together we will become even stronger, and as in carols light defeats darkness, so in life ukrainians will defeat the moscow zays look with sincere eyes at the son of god on our land , on ukraine, a gift came down from heaven and brought it to glorify in the eternal ages of merry christmas, the war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians , victories and losses, analysis and forecasts, politics

and geopolitics, serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this, people who have information and shape public opinion the opinion of the people who defend ukraine and create the future right now is the main and interesting thing in the program verdict by serhiy rudenko from monday to thursday at 1:00 p.m. repeat at 6:00 p.m. fighting capacity of our defenders, the espresso tv channel, together with the forpot tua charity fund, launched a new fundraiser for the purchase of powerful portable battery stations with solar panels for our fighters, we will hand over the first five stations

in the 406th separate artillery brigade named after general oleksiy almazov, join the gathering, let's get closer to victory together . glory to ukraine . good health, ladies and gentlemen. happy new year. i'll tell you this again at the end of the program. now i'll just say that vitaliy is gone because he went here a lecture to someone, he is the kind of person who gives lectures from time to time, meets with people, and so on and so on, and that is why he is not here today, but in the new year we will definitely see him. and now i have finished the introductory speech. and we will talk

today it is about diplomacy and military affairs and energy. in short, as always , the agenda does not change much. we will definitely start with the war with what everyone is thinking about, what they are worried about, what they are dreaming about, that it is over, and so on and so on. oleksiy hetman , a military expert, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, and serhiy hragra, a military expert, a participant in peacekeeping positions, a reserve colonel, are on the air. thank you, gentlemen, for taking the time. thank you for taking the time. let's start advancing little by little on the air and may advance to victory, mr. serhiy , the first question for you is always bakhmut bakhmut bakhmut bakhmut and the controversy is such that well, there are such hints, well, at least mi mi mi in the meantime, what

is happening there, what can you say to yourself that well, not everything is so bad in bakhmut and the ukrainian house is worse in the russian one, in which of the two houses is better, the situation is better now in the bakhmut area, as far as you can believe the stories or the words of experts, some say that there is some kind of hint, well, about balance as for the balance in our favor, i will very carefully say in favor of ukraine, well , you know. to say there that the situation has eased a little is not because i have a conversation almost every day with the guys who are there and they are at the limit of their capabilities. today, the enemy does not stop trying to attack yes, of course you know , if you look at the tactical picture and talk about operational factors, we can see that the enemy is using less techniques, that the enemy is a little bit very insignificant, but has

reduced the number of shelling so that they go just on the streets and they can catch their own, but the positive thing is that we defend ourselves, which allows us, as units that know the terrain better, to conduct maneuvers and more actively counterattack the enemy , despite the fact that the task was clearly set to complete with by the end of the year, bakhmut has obviously not completed this task, and, therefore, he is forced to continue to spend his additional resources in order to prove the situation, as they believe, ah. this can happen, therefore, an additional observation is observed the transfer of ammunition and fuel for contingents of russian troops there in order to continue to put pressure on this area, therefore , in the near future , we will not see any significant changes, of course, if we have already

decided that the defending side has more prospects to hold out, and less is needed forces and means, well relatively, but the situation continues to be extremely difficult , despite the fact that from a military point of view and from an operational point of view, the capture of the bahmut is unlikely to give the enemy any advantages because they they are simply spinning into the next system of defensive positions of the ukrainian defense force oleksiy how would you comment on such a fact well, if it is a fact, a lot of people are talking about it already here, i already refer to it a lot well there already well maybe not half maybe a little less but experts say that attacks on the ukrainian position are now carried out at the level of a detachment, at the level of a platoon, there are 10-20, 25 people, and before that, a

month ago, it was already a company, some kind of attack , that is, 100 people. as in modern of the army, it is called that, and the experts say that it means that they no longer have such a number of capabilities, at least human, to attack 100 people to make an attack. and there is a 10-15-20 attack. is this such a new tactic? is this such a new tactic ? that these battalions are a tactical group that they used. they appeared. well, they found out that they are very conventionally speaking, conservatively inertial and they are appropriate. in today's war, all small groups are assault groups consisting of 10 to 20-30 people. they are composed of different in different numbers because there is a certain difference where their

combat offensive is carried out, this is an urbanized area - this is a forest strip or this field, there will be a lot of talk about this, about which tactics they use, on the big account of anism, they overthrew the tactics of the introduction of war by our servicemen for a long time, we have been practicing certain combat actions in small groups, but these groups communicate very well with each other, well, we even heard such words in nato standards where there is little alpha brava group they have to interact in a certain, certain way, they copied the russians to a large extent, only the outer part of these current groups, a large number of them are the private military company wagner, they are the first wave that attacks our positions. well, there are many such things that i do not even want to point out when stand in front of our ukrainian-speaking prisoners of war and thus try to avoid direct

fire contact with our arrivals, which socially because these pows are starting to write that i am a prisoner then, as a rule, it is destroyed when they approach within 10-15 m, and the work of all assault groups with the current of the group begins already if we set tactics. but i have a kilogram-channel from you hetman, a written analysis of how to act in these assault groups is quite detailed. this is not my personal opinion - it is scammed from other sources. there is a lot of information about it. if you just read it, it will be enough for 20-30 minutes. many information, but the main thing is that all the small battalions are critical groups, they are heard in the assault groups. they are trying, they do not set themselves big tasks, to capture the whole place there, it will turn out to be a stressful task, to capture one building, to capture one some kind of high, so they say there. they try

to establish themselves immediately, they make dugouts with there are different exits. they are trying to build on a large account of the price of the building. if they succeed, then the next house, the next attack, another group comes in, which more or less furnishes them. then from this city they are trying to attack again if we manage to knock out er to force a retreat then they use their artillery then these places that they have temporarily fortified they themselves or besides they use such things as reconnaissance of the bohemian so called when freshly mobilized people are sent forward and in this way, they are trying to find out where exactly at this very moment our fire is in the opposition, these people usually die, then this private military company of wagner begins to work, although it is not the only one working there to transfer certain the forces are capable of fighting near kherson. there are also regular airborne troops of the

russian federation. the field is in the city or in the forest belt, so different numbers of groups leave and after half an hour and 40 minutes a new wave of such waves will begin in a day, there may be 10-15 or even more. i'm sorry mr oleksii look if we see such a picture mr serhiy then the same picture is exactly what i'm saying but not the same and a more expressive more clear further reach well the picture is seen in front of the ukrainian general staff as i understand it and if the ukrainian general staff sees it what do you think, mr. serhiy, there is a countermeasure, there is a counterattack, but now mr. oleksiyna has

painted us such a picture that no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! intelligence, british intelligence, our partners see it differently from space, from some other possibilities, and we, yes, we understand, they have changed their tactics. it was once, please, well, a little bit wrong, a little bit wrong , do you understand that er, destroying er and focusing exclusively on the tactical zone of combat operations along the actual line of combat engagement, well, it was a little wrong and actually, the enemy is counting on it because ob' objectively, it is quantitative indicators still prevail in our country, and that is why the emphasis is placed on strikes that

decompress its command structure, that is, on control points, on observation points, on battalion commands, and strikes are carried out on those places that have been discovered and in which there are concentrations of troops that are supposedly on of recreation well and undoubtedly, we are constantly influencing logistics objects, and even the fact that the enemy is forbidden to approach the line of combat combat collision by trains for 100 km already indicates that we are inflicting these blows quite effectively nullifying, in fact , most of the enemy's efforts to break through . in this way, they are now improvising , trying to use all available reserves, and in this way, in a wave-like manner, as p

. there are enough forces and means because they, uh, being under the constant influence of fire weapons of the ukrainian defense forces, are forced to concentrate their reserves. are no longer capable and this tactic is showing signs because we have long ago read about attempts to break through in the soledar area, go there for a while , go around through the building of some star and for that, well, for that and what is the point of uh-uh to make the environment uh- eh bah- bahmut they just physically do not have enough resources to concentrate and strike because our intelligence as an element of combat support works the same way it is very effective strikes on the enemy, and this is what is connected with

the high cost of these operations. oleksiy once again said that these assault groups are breaking through , and god forbid that there are two to five people left there who are trying to gain a foothold with them, two by three seeps in there additional forces and in this way they are trying to get it, but again, going back to our tactical space operational and other types of intelligence, i think we identify those positions and strike not only on the line because but also on the rear object or an object that are in the depth of the enemy's battle formations and such asymmetric tactics allow us to work out the situation and hold the front line is very difficult, but we are sticking to oleksiy again, but i think mr. serhii will also join, see mr. budanov , the head of military intelligence says that ukraine cannot advance and scattered can to advance and so on, i am pretending, er, i

conclude that there is some kind of pause or some dreams about a pause, if it is really a pause, it will end and the military operations will continue, but the question is whether this will be a new tactic, a new operational skill, the new strategy of russia, why i ask this question is because when the war started, military experts told me when i was worried that they saw a retreat from kyiv and now they will quickly change their minds and start acting differently, and all the military experts tell me that if you have been imprisoned for 20 years in a row, that you are red the army is the strongest, so you won't change the officers quickly, you won't change anything, it won't work, well, months, maybe tens of months, maybe years, i'll change my mind how to act differently, although yesterday i think putin

he said that we need to study nato. i laughed a lot somewhere at some meeting, or i just saw it yesterday, maybe he said it before that we need to study, we need to study how nato works there, everyone needs to know what they have in their heads , and i would if oh, nato is the enemy, how so, oleksiy, please tell me if a new concept for the continuation of the war on the part of the russian federation is possible, well, first of all, i agree with mr. colonel that he said that we are destroying logistics facilities, eh, which directly applies to all cities, directly to nato standards well, i'm still there to be during the operation of the joint forces in the ato zone. it is bakhmut, the direction is further there, the shepherd, the money, i want to contain , our unit is located. i am also a military serviceman, i am not a

colonel . this was 3-4-5 years ago about the need to introduce nato standards . at that time, we already had a lot of training, in certain cities in ukraine, sergeants were trained. he does not want to say where it is because he will fly there again and they were already trained according to nato standards tried to teach and tried to conduct classes. there are a lot of interesting things. the structure of nato differs from ours largely not in the quality of weapons, but in the organization of service directly in the units, the relationship between servicemen and the leadership there, the primary link of the department is the water department, those people who are more staffed directly work on the reporting line or train during training, when there is no war, the whole other party, the whole other structure, starts there from colonels to generals. they provide various activities for his units and opportunities for him to fight or it was a peaceful time to train in our country, if the soviets were on the contrary, the most important thing was the general and we all built further, that is, you are the grass. that is, these are completely

different approaches, and it is very unpleasant to hear that the words of mr. bohdan are not interpreted very correctly about the fact that he was in a dead end, he said a little differently. he said that russia is in a moving corner because he continued offensive actions, they cannot, they do not have villages for means, but retreat, return, make a gesture voluntarily, they could not understand inside the country, because there they raise their heads, otaki is ultra-fascist on a large scale, the musical takes the anthem of the private military company wagner, then he continued with the opinion that it is cheese, so there is still not enough table for means, because mr. zaluzhnye prescribed what, how many , what, what, 300 tanks, what, what for in order to continue the next ones to completely free our territory and all these two unrelated things are connected as if they tell us that we are in an easy corner, in what mobile corner are we in when we constantly break their elastic structures

warehouses and other things and we continue the offensive operations, the offensive operations are correct, mr. colonel says that they will begin with the fact that we destroy the warehouses, destroy the scale, accept the logisticians, and only then go the operation on land, it does not start, on the contrary, they shot when they were masturbating. in the next we will shoot for a month and a half, two months, and when we reach the goal that they will be organized and not only demoralized, then we will do, as they say, lightning effects that visited history textbooks and statutes of the charter to accept as we did it under kharkiv and under kherson , are the russians able to apply it to free technology, no, by and large they are trying to modernize it, but since the russian army was built for them, it is the descendants of the soviet army there they are driving rain there is the commander and he is god and the king. he does not have normal relations with his subordinates and does not consider them to be human beings, so even if they are prescribed and in which normative documents how

they should act, they will still not be able to act like that, we act according to nato standards, that is not why what i can study because it is correct since the introduction of combat is the correct relationship between servicemen, by and large we started to use exactly this one . mr. serhii, mr. oleksiy , first, mr. serhii, did i understand correctly that soviet-russian technology is now going to talk nonsense, it is a soldier for a general, and nativska is a general for a soldier, he is for me simply well, i will then tell the audience my thoughts on this matter but am i right i understood that here it is completely the opposite, it approaches people, the lack of interaction between people, in fact, the superiors who constantly need to pull their toes, but on the contrary, the superiors

say that you need help, how are you, how are you, how can i help you so that it is easier, warmer, more accurate, and so on p serhii, to be very brief, i will say two main points. first, we have a soldier and a soldier is the main combat unit, and to ensure the operation of this main combat unit, everything must be done, and we are trying to build such a system now, which allows us uh, to do everything possible to ensure this , it has a combat unit, this is the first thing, secondly, no matter how much the russians are trying uh, to change something in them, not everything will work out and there will not be enough time to change the basic postulate and which is characterized by such uh- it is a fact that they themselves attest to. a sergeant in the russian army cannot command artillery, unlike a sergeant in the ukrainian army. a sergeant in

the russian army. we have a sergeant - this a key figure who makes decisions on the point of view of the battle and she is, you know, the determining link between the command, the structure, that is, between the officers and the rank and file, that is, between combat units, and this is a key position that radically distinguishes us. excuse me , please, i understand time time p alexey a couple of words add if you have anything to add literally a minute soviet soviet army in the soviet army military salute we give the junior in rank in the senior rank to the army to drive those who are more senior thank you excellent answer a thank you very much oleksiy hetman, a military expert on the costs of the russian-ukrainian war, his slave, a military expert, a participant in peacekeeping missions, a reserve colonel, and i will add what i promised to add, it struck me how in the 90s, when i went to

london to work for the bbc and you know i go to the boss and my legs are shaking because he is the boss , he has a lot of people, he is a big bbc manager and starts saying can i take it because i really need it there can i have a pen here and a tape recorder there i don’t know a piece of paper well, in short, something for me he looked at me like on a complete idiot and this confirms the thoughts it is not just in the army it is in the life of europeans it is in the life of civilized countries and he says listen i work for you not you ask me and i have to constantly think that in september it will be this this this this and this and what can i ask him then, and if he is constantly standing and praying, please give me, i will say through the lip, i will not

give it, go away, then it is not known how journalism works, how does any organization work, because the organization works like this so that there are people on the mountain who provide the valley is the best opportunity to work on and this will be confirmed by arseniy yatsenyuk, politician, economist , lawyer, two-time prime minister of ukraine. good health, mr. arseniya. thank you very much for taking the time and good health, mr. mykola. christ was born. this is when the superiors see how subordinates work and help, that is, they do not greet each other from the bottom to the top, that the boss is god and the king and that he does not say, i am doing, and the boss, on the contrary, looks down and says listen here can i help you here let's do something here. what will you

please me? let me give you advice. that is, they are equal people, they do the same thing, unlike the soviet union , whose centenary we are celebrating today . of the army, military experts just said, and my experience shows that it is very difficult to understand that western management is fundamentally different from russian-soviet management, if such a word management can be applied to russian-soviet officials p. mykola i confirm that this is not only a matter of business , it is an ideology in general. what is the difference in ideologies and approaches between the west? well, dictatorships and those who represent such regimes as putin's russia, that is, the individual is the basis of society, a person is the highest value and this is the key principle of democracy . the king doesn't tell and doesn't just

tell. but press and don't just press, but force , and there is a dialogue between society and the one whom society has chosen, the same is true in management , those people who work for you, about whom you said, they are the basis, the more you the more you care about these people, the more the return , the greater the motivation, the better the quality and the greater the joint success, the joint success of that work of that company and the country as a whole , we are different from russia . the economy is just going to war, and i was there yesterday on another broadcast, where they complained a lot about the government and the cabinet of ministers and the president and not the verkhovna rada, and i kept looking at them in surprise and saying yes, war, what kind of mortgage

, which one, which one, which ones are small interest as well what are we talking about? well, we have to win first, so then i have a question. is it possible to do some kind of social work during the war? well, somehow, well, all the money goes to the front , goes to help, people take it out of their pockets. that is, you can . it is different to manage a country during a war than the way ukraine is currently managed, so war has many dimensions, especially the modern war that ukraine and the whole world have faced, and of course the main war is on the front line, it is a key war where ukrainian soldiers are there the ukrainian armed forces defend the ukrainian state and every ukrainian, but the rear is the one that ensures this war, and therefore the new war has

several dimensions in addition to the military dimension . of course, this is an economic dimension, it is a new one. this is not a new component, because any war is impossible. win by military means if you lost it. economically, but the economic front is extremely important. now the energy front has been added to the economic front. the cyberpromt has been added to the energy front. isolation of russia from the world economy and from this world, that is. of course, without a healthy economy, it is difficult to win a war and it is difficult to build a healthy economy during a war. how does the ukrainian economy work now? the basis of the ukrainian economy is the financial system. it will be more correct. the funds of our foreign partners. in total, we received almost 32 billion dollars. i am talking about 32 m