the new war has several dimensions in addition to the military dimension. of course, this is an economic dimension , it is a new one. the energy front was added to the energy front , the cyber front was added to the cyber front, a large geopolitical front was added, this is the way to isolate russia from the world economy and from this world , i.e. of course, without a healthy economy well, it's hard to win a war and it's hard to build a healthy economy during a war. how does the ukrainian economy work now? the basis of the ukrainian economy is the financial system. it will be more correct. i receive direct funds to the state budget

of ukraine, the americans give us money as grants , that is, we will not need to return them , the europeans mainly issue money as loans there, 20-year loans with an average interest rate a rate of three to four percent, that is , sooner or later this money must be returned or a decision will be made to write off the money , that is, it is a component of the financial second part - it is the ukrainian economy itself, which is partially very seriously destroyed by russia, the worst forecasts of the ukrainian economy did not come true , this is what gross domestic product, i.e. overall economic growth let's say falls by 50%, but we expect a drop of 35%. and these are objective things because the metallurgical sector destroyed by mining has been destroyed logistics cannot be exported from the ports and only at the expense of this and the so-called grain initiative there. we received additional billions of dollars from the sale of our agrarian pro-e-e, therefore, in such conditions, objectively, the

social policy of the state is supported in the first place at the expense of foreign borrowing , and in the second place in turn at the expense of internal sources that are still available and everything will depend on how long the war will last and the sooner the war ends with a victory, the faster the recovery of the economy will be, but the recovery of the economy after such a protracted and complicated war, a simply terrible one will not happen in one day and will not happen in one year ago, these economic realities must be perceived and such a recovery can take place only at the expense of one thing, this is the new marshall plan for ukraine, and in this plan, the marshal must the whole world will participate, the united states of america, of course, as a key financial donor and our european partners and the countries of the big seven, and as for internal reforms in the country, well, you understand how i am here. i am not a supporter of the classical military economy or military communism, i believe that even in these conditions, which

are we must preserve the private sector we must help private initiatives we must respect the right to private property we must think about every branch of business where we can help, either with a direct subsidy or by purchasing those or of other goods directly to ukrainian producers, whether through the tax system, that is, the economic front is no less important than the military front, mr. prime minister a philosophical question what you said what the experts all say what i even say even though i myself have doubts that during a war you can't predict anything, the war constantly carries corrections every day something can happen that's why we talk about the end of the war about some plan and we we are standing anyway . now with you on the eve of the new year is not worth it, but on the other hand, i, who have never been either

the prime minister or the speaker, or the minister of legislative affairs. when i look at the russian economy, i can't understand how it will be for months. just to exist when there are sanctions when there are huge huge huge problems that already exist and oil is oil production and then this is what they shoot themselves in both feet with gas when they themselves refuse to supply gas and so on. all this tells me that well , somehow it doesn't work out for a long time. i don't see it. when you say that the americans give grants, when you say that the europeans give loans. and at the beginning of the war, i asked some economists how much is needed. he says 3-4-5 billion a month is about enough to the country has worked and these numbers are approximately the same,

now the west is giving, but in russia, everything is less, less , less, less, from an economic point of view, how long can russia last when the budget deficit is already colossal and they say that next year it will be even more, i am not inclined to completely underestimate this criminal and wild the state what is russia why because what is russia it was and is trying to remain a big gas station and in this gas station gas and oil are key positions and at the expense of what russia finances its military budget and actually at the expense of what russia is financing the war against ukraine, the world community will do something that putin did not expect at all, well, first of all, putin expected to seize ukraine in a few days, putin expected that the west would fall, putin expected that the west would not support

ukraine with either weapons or funds. putin expected that those sanctions which were implemented will not be implemented because the west cannot withstand self-isolation from russia's dependence on oil and bad, but everything happened exactly the opposite and the economic forecasts that were for russia at the beginning russia's military aggression against ukraine is not really for russia today. well, what is expected? it was expected that the russian economy will fall by 30% within a year. they expected that the ruble would completely collapse, the complete collapse did not happen this year, and due to the fact that russia created an incredible shortage of energy products on the world market, in principle, it sells less, but the amount of funds it received during this year is the same. if it did sell in a normal period of time that means they are about 1 billion dollars every day they get from the

sale of their oil and gas, but this is what we are talking about today and it is today in russia, every day is getting worse and worse. why am i saying this in view of the fact that the sanctions have been introduced? i do not see a positive tomorrow in the russian economy. i do not at all i don't see russia as putin's russia, but economic stabilization is not seen in russia, at the expense of which russia will survive - it is at the expense of selling gas and oil, well, first of all, oil through china, through india , through egypt, as it tried to sell through turkey, but this is precisely why our western partners introduced a price ceiling on oil . this is the first. the second is before that. what structure of the russian economy can be more? another structure of the russian economy is possible. only in the case when they have new technologies and a key blow to the russian economy what happened is that foreign

companies came out of it and the sale of any advanced technologies to russia is prohibited, that is, the russian economy has no tomorrow, everything putin will do, he will continue to squeeze the maximum out of genetic resources to finance his of the military machine, that is why the effectiveness of the sanction and depriving russia of the opportunity to fill its budget at the expense of energy resources is the key basis and the key goal of the sanctions, and that is why it is extremely important that 2/3 of the world's economies 2/3 of the world's economy, and this is the entire western world that supports ukraine, do everything is finally so that russia does not circumvent sanctions, and i do not think that at this stage we can drag china and india to the right side, they will use this situation in their own interests, but the use of own interests, it is in the interests of china and

india, not in the interests of russia, that is why the russian economy will go down the path of decline, as i hope that putin's russian empire will decline on this very day when, 100 years ago, do you remember, in 2008 in munich, putin talked about the greatest tragedy uh, the last century, the last century is the collapse of the soviet union and the tragedy was really in the last century, only the biggest tragedy of the last century. it was the creation of the soviet union, it was the creation of a prison of peoples and the creation of this empire of evil and in the 22nd year, ukraine did everything to prevent this empire from being restored, and then from the 14th. he didn't even start from the 14th, you know. i am convinced that his plans for the restoration of the soviet empire were from the first day of his tenure as president that is, russia. this is a neo-imperial chip, which

turned with it from imperial to neo-nazi ideology, which was led by putin and he failed to celebrate the century of the soviet union thanks to ukraine, and the west must realize this. ukraine and ukrainians saved the west from a new non-cold war. i think that they saved the west from a full-scale third world war and will save it if ukraine wins, and therefore ukraine must win this war. by the way, you confirmed what i said. i am now confirming what you you say because in 2000 , from putin, well, to europe somewhere. i just met with kostya ernst and he flew in, and he was the first person in 2000 who told me that there would be a war so that putin would attack, and it was 2000, he only just became

president, but he already had such plans , so i confirm this at least with one handshake, then i still shook kosty's hand , now it's unlikely ap arsen, look, let 's go back, a very important moment, and the potential, you said that we need a marshal's plan yes, and when we we think about the marshall plan, we think about adenauer, we think about the people who ruled that schuman, uh, how he created this coal and steel eyes, all the first unions, then i understand that they were capitalists after all, they understood how the free market works and now when i see that we had the soviet union and then the post-soviet 30 years were not ideal , let's say bluntly, many people still give

social assistance to everyone, let's give it, let 's give it. that is, it's not capitalism, it's somehow some kind of opposite, we have enough potential and human and technological intellectual educational potential for to simply find people who worked as prime minister in the sumy region. you are better. it is known that in each region there should be a number of dozens , at least tens, and better, hundreds of better. thousands of managers who already understand how to handle money with the management that you and i talked about, how to eliminate bottlenecks and shortcomings and how to develop, how to encourage private initiative, that's all in ukraine, what the west will say tomorrow, we have a trillion dollars, you can take it you know

that it is very often more difficult to spend than to receive, how to spend this money in a rational way, there is such an opportunity, there is such a potential of ukraine, please, you said that after the collapse of the soviet union, in principle, the entire basis of the economy was, well, i would i wouldn’t even call it socially oriented because the economy must have a social component , this is natural because if the social component is not provided, then there will be no order in the state, that is, there will be no social justice, but the economy cannot be paternalistic and the economic ideology can not be post-soviet you know it's paternalistic, and take and share is the shortest pool, the path to the destruction of the state and the billions you are talking about. of course , these billions will give only billions give and very specific not only economic reforms. and

under a very specific economic policy, there is no other economic policy for ukraine than a free market competitive economy. well , because there are no other examples and examples of the success of world economies, because the economic system is a reflection of the political system and vice versa, that is, democracy in politics is means that competitiveness, so also competitiveness in the economy - it means success er market economy - it means success liberal and transparent economy - it means success, are there such people in ukraine of course there are from my experience, i will tell you this in principle, these theses are not very popular electorally because the wave of populism in the world was horrifying, but all these populists live at the expense of those who were before them, because you need to have money in

order to spend them, and in order to earn them, it is necessary to conduct, well, on the one hand , conservative, on the other hand, very market-oriented , as you called it, well, in our understanding, it is generally possible to direct capital, are these people in ukraine, of course, are there there is another the path of ukraine than the path followed by the european union, it simply does not exist because ukraine is a candidate or a member of the european union, if the ukrainian model of the economy does not meet the competitiveness, market , transparency and efficiency that exists in the european union, no one will give money, simply no one will give it in terms of human potential, it must be frankly admitted that i looked at a study that was published by the institute of demography in lebanon, and there is a very serious problem related to the fact that as a

result of the war, ukraine lost a significant i hope that i have temporarily lost part of it , so part of the human potential abroad has only officially been granted asylum to about five million ukrainian citizens , but i constantly cite the figure that in poland alone more than 10,000 enterprises were founded by ukrainians in 8 months. who are these people who founded these enterprises are, of course, those people who know how to work, which means that the longer the war goes on, the more difficult it will be for us to return people, but we simply have no other way out, because what you can have is what you can get access to hundreds of billions of dollars, but the use of this money, the development of this money and, in general, the construction of a new ukraine. it is not only money, it is primarily people, people who know how to build a new country

. i will get involved, but there are recipes, because even the prime ministers and ministers have some, well, if they look at the country as a whole, what can be done here ? mykola let's make television there conditionally, i don't care that the television plant is a business and we are easy with you we go somewhere where we know where there is advertising and they give us permission very simply without the substation without bribes then we say let's go to the bank the bank says oh oh well give us a business plan and he says, well, okay, we will give you such a percentage, this is this, this is this amount , and we and we. then we

go . precisely about poland, definitely in poland they very easily organized it all in six months, these eight thousand because there is a normal civilized country, civilized business, and in ukraine a lot of people feel sorry for me and say that i don't understand anything in the economy, so i don't know what he has to say, but they say, listen, we are we would like this , we would, but it is difficult there, and it is difficult there, and there is a bribe, and i am not pressed here and there, there are no permits, and in short, it is a terrible, terrible headache. for a micro person, for an ordinary person, you can create such conditions so that she organizes a business with a smile, earns and made it possible to pay taxes made it possible for the country to develop further, are there any unique recipes, you know, they always try to find what is a unique recipe today

. as the americans say, the silver bullet is such a magic bullet, some kind of bullet, there are so many unique recipes and only you don't need to invent a rover, this rover has already been invented, it was invented in the european union, at least there is a lot of bureaucracy fighting it financial discipline because my government was the first and, unfortunately, so far the only one to reduce the country's debts, we then carried out the first stage of tax reform, then we reduced payroll taxes, that is, uh, then the prozoro system was introduced, well, you know this popular prozoro system for the whole the world today in terms of public procurement because before it was full corruption, then the national anti-corruption bureau was created, the highest anti-corruption court, the national agency for the prevention of corruption, that is, the foundations were laid, banking was excluded

the system was put in order in the state budget and it moved little by little. i am convinced that now we have received on the one hand the biggest historical drama for ukraine, this is the war, and on the other hand the biggest historical chance for ukraine to build a new ukraine. i am sure that we will take advantage of this chance. i am sure that we will win this war, i am sure that we will build a competitive economy, i am sure that the time will come when ukraine will become a member of the european union and nato, and this means that there cannot be other standards of other approaches than there in ukraine, this means that we will become members of the club of the strongest today we are the leaders of the strongest, leaders among the strongest in terms of our struggle for our independence, but tomorrow after

victory will be no less difficult than today's tomorrow to build a new country and we will definitely do it well, you see dear tv viewers how arseniy yatsenyuk inspired us all here because this is very optimistic very nice on the eve of the new year such such a statement from a two-time prime minister, i.e. a person who understands the subject because she says, but while we are still sitting in the 22nd year , we will talk about energy. without it, nothing will happen. oleksandr kharchenko, general director of the energy research center, and we are well acquainted with you, oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy, first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada committee, precisely the issue of energy good health, mr. oleksiy and mr. oleksandr. thank you for finding time for us. good health.

look at both of the first ones. i have the impression that if two months ago the restoration of the entire network took more time now is it too much less time or does it seem to me? i’m sorry, our energy, our energy workers have learned some bare shaft maintenance and really so, and i’m not wrong. what when i say that it has become much, well, much more efficient, it works faster, troubles are overcome faster , heat, energy is turned on, and yes, energy in fact, energy, am i right or is this what i want for real, mr. oleksandr, you know mykola, because the damage is very large, and if we

are talking about the high-voltage network, from which we are mostly independent from the point of view electricity supply 150% of it is damaged very significantly and most of the substations that are actually responsible for transporting a large part of electricity, they are practically destroyed there to a large extent and most of the consumption is provided now by such posiemitropes, you know that the forks on them are completely broken and the bridges are broken, but on rural roads we conduct electricity to the roads around and will continue to supply it, and on the other hand, there is really experience in how to quickly restore the supply in the same area that was affected by a much larger dispatcher and ukrenergo engineers who are responsible for this have really developed a very large amount of knowledge, a very large amount of understanding of how to quickly

restore the supply. is happening much faster than 2 months ago, but i emphasize once again that in fact the system is now very fragile, it is the most powerful ways of electricity supply are destroyed and everything that is happening is so thin, to be honest, it is means i will continue. let's give two to oleksiy. and what oleksandr said means that there will be another two or three similar attacks. in general, we will have no light, there will be no heat throughout the country , or no, no, i don't think so for sure, i support what my colleague mr. kharchenko says in principle , now i will add some aspects. well, you are absolutely mykola. you paid attention correctly. yes, the attack is

already the 10th, yes, it seems like an attack. and it clearly did not lead to the consequences that the enemy expected. i do not say why, after all, 66 missiles and not 120 how is there intelligence to us ie something they don't take off there, and something doesn't launch there. yes, and this morning's attack on kyiv, 16 drones and all of them were shot down, you understand, and none of them were a nanometer of the infrastructure, uh, some kind of impact, certain objects were really damaged there, but the energy industry was actually not damaged, so it is definitely the first - this is that our ppp system works better, better, and even better with the help of our partners, this is one of the very strong arguments, it is clear, nevertheless, some blows are passed, including yesterday's yes, but do you really understand our energy network, because it is necessary to distinguish

generation, yes, these are typical stations, this is nuclear generation, this is hydra - this is zelena, this is only the production of goods, and then the main issue of logistics, that is, the delivery of this electricity product to the consumer, so here is our network energy company - this is the national company ukrenergo, our strategic operator is national and local operators - this is oblenergo, yes called, they learned to look for other logistics, and in principle, this system becomes so distributive, and this makes it very, very, well , so protected, and i think the enemy understands, and then where to beat well, they drank powerful substations and now it’s all going to other substations to other transformer substations and there definitely won’t be enough rockets there, and that’s why you know for sure that it won’t get worse. we have stabilized this

energy situation, there are still certain nuances, they know how to prepare for strikes, it’s energy preparation i already reached the point of this minimum, i guarantee you that we have arrived and now the enemy will look for their efforts in another direction, it is clear where there will be gas and there will be other things, but in energy there are no disasters i am absolutely sure of this, there will be problems, but there will be nuances, but they will be catastrophes, but again, to mr. oleksandr, what mr. oleksiy kucherenko, the paninister, said, then i would ask now about the government, that is, the supreme power, i no longer know the government, the president, the verkhovna rada is the decision-making center, do they help the energy industry or do they not hinder the energy industry? it seems

extremely important to me, or are there simply so many talented people there that they work for themselves, and thank god that the government does not get in there with its instructions, as we all do. we thank our leaders very much. they don't tell you how to fight at the front. i think it's the greatest achievement of ukraine that government officials and senior leaders don't tell anyone. maybe even in the energy industry they stopped giving tips to professionals who already know better what you say, oleksandr. well, you know, i see very professional teams in ukrenergo and the operator of gas transportation systems, which really knows what to do, and they are really facing these threats professionally and correctly, this is not an easy story. i am not highly involved in any political processes, but i see that the team is working stably and at least, i don't see anyone coming elise

with hands, although well, maybe i'm just not knowledgeable in the political part, let's be frank, well, in the political part, well-informed, oleksiy kucherenko, former ministers of precisely these issues and now deputies, first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada committee, thank you, mykolaivka , please tell us there is well, okay, they don’t lie with their hands, but maybe in these hands there is some money or some kind of help or some kind of managerial tip. such things happen, please, you give me, mykola, a very valid question. ten, yes, absolutely, what is in this situation and the system of so-called management that remains with us? well, it is not a system of government, and i can say for sure. well, i ask one question: how can the system of management and regulation of peacetime work in conditions of extreme wartime? well, theoretically, no

maybe, but our practice tells us to look at the top -level management in each state company - this is mostly well, they distribute the money, they share it there, you understand their schemes, where to buy a chetko, where to unfasten kickbacks for the gts operators, that's why audi shows that they did what ukrenergo did and everything else. you private companies have a different structure there, and there are private shareholders, they have more control. but fortunately, in state companies, it was preserved. this is what i preserved. this is the chief dispatcher of ukrenergo .