this is a great investment now in our victory , eh. i think that investing money in securities that will definitely be profitable will definitely be eh, the funds will be returned to the investors , and for the funds, we will also contribute to our victory, this money goes to the armed forces well these are my thoughts today, in any case, the blood of the economy is money, it must move in any case, well, leave something behind . it will never have prospects, remember that ms. nataliya is an authority for our viewers , it is also not in doubt that i have many questions i think that your advice is also very much expected by the audience right now, and it is also needed, please uh, well , now there is a lot of talk about the fact that people have lost stability, this fear, uh, of the lack of stability, well, it's true, when it's so feverish, i want to tell all the viewers and calm them down if we had a moderate-moderate-continental climate in

ukraine, it remains so and will remain for a long, long time, and as you have to monitor the weather forecasts, you must continue to do so and hold on to it. well, if it's more serious, then well it's better like eh lubomyr huzar well, in my opinion no one has said so far don't be afraid it's very difficult sometimes we are all alive but i think it's very important not to be afraid to be human eh love your pets and take care of them because just this war is such a small detail, but it showed us , uh, well, such people with a big heart who do not abandon their little brothers and sisters, this is very important, as for me, this is a huge indicator without such small indicators, and it all adds up and very much so it is important to protect yourself, but also to pay

attention to those who are close to you, maybe there are people whom we call introverts. they will never show how hard it is for them. we must feel it with our hearts and souls. well, if it is even simpler that we must be united, do not be afraid to be human and united thank you very much sergey, i think that people want to hear once again when the war ends, how we will defeat everyone. well, we are our army, but i would like what you want to say, words of faith, support and a sober, and maybe somewhere, such a faith-filled vision of the future well, actually, i am taught that until we face the same problems, we do not know our own capabilities, we do not know the depth of our capabilities. and just then, the war showed that the ukrainian army surprised the world with its capabilities, unexpected opportunities, and just then and we who are not on the front line should be

drawn to those things to those miracles that our soldiers do on the battlefield so that we must believe in our own strength and understand that in fact the possibilities are limitless and it is precisely this infinity of possibilities that must be used in this year, as much as possible, as quickly as possible, i will never win. thank you, yevhen, please . i think that the events of this year last year showed three things: ukrainians are brave, ukrainians are strong, and ukrainians fight on the side of good, so the victory will be for ukraine, and please wish the ukrainians what you want. i think the desire of everyone here is to win, but i think you too. i also want to say thank you. we are friends, colleagues

. you see, we have moved on to the year 2023, and we will go on, and for our viewers, i know very briefly, because we are friends, we have said everything, in fact, and i would like to say that if we talk, we can talk for a long time, but we can talk for a long time. there is nothing to talk about . when ambassadors were sent to him from sparta to help him in the fight against the persians. he invited certain of his people there to do some things to them and you also do that to me, do some other things, i was refused by the spartans, and then the trans-austrian said to them, well, go away to sparta and tell that you will not have spring this year. well, because the staff attacked in spring, but sparta fought back and they had spring, let us also tell you that in 2022, many people said that you will not have spring this year, but it came when summer, autumn , winter and winter came spring will pass again and we will win. to be honest, i believe that this is

just such a historical pattern and we all live in it. this is the history of the past hundred years and the fact that russia we succeeded and they defeated us and now they will lose. it is possible this is a story that fate itself pushed to this wars, what is the state of them, because this is an entity on earth, its time has come, it has no future, and we have a future, and this is the most important thing, we have a future, and we are in it. and deserves thank you for being with us stay this year with espresso take care be happy as much as possible keep fighting and we will reach our victory for sure goodbye movies television sports music education

free people have a choice choose what you want on megogo the war raised its head again in europe, reminding us of the darkest hour of our history. franz 24 constantly covers events in ukraine, our team on the ground and in the studio will inform you about the dynamics of events only from franz 24 in ukrainian on espresso. guest houses, tanks, javelins, planes and

mines, guns and cartridges, missiles and drones, mykola is in a hurry, paves the way for the ukrainians, will give complete victory to the ukrainians, merry christmas, happy new year, veltrum battery stations designed specifically for military needs, sealed shockproof, work in difficult weather conditions, these stations will significantly increase the combat capability of our defenders, the espresso tv channel, together with the forpot tua charity fund, launched a new fundraiser for the purchase of powerful portable battery stations with solar panels for our fighters, we will transfer the first five stations to the 406th separate artillery brigade in the name of general khorunzhy oleksiy almazov, join the gathering, let's get closer to victory together, glory to ukraine,

congratulations, friends with you, vitaly portnikov, and our interlocutor today is a historian, professor of harvard university, serhiy plakhi, we are having this conversation as part of our joint project with the international center of sovereign nations, reconstruction of the truth, etc. by the way, i want to start our conversation with this, mr. serhiy, because history, in fact, is always a question of the reconstruction of the truth, especially when it comes to history of a country like ukraine, because i always had the impression that ukrainian history was not written by those specialists who generally perceived ukraine as something separate and whole that hmm, you could say millions for 100 years, ukrainians perceived their

country and even their civilization as a part of other civilizations, first of all, of course , russian civilization, and what do you think of these 300 days, er, 300 days of war? they change the deer and ukrainians to their history and the world to the history of ukraine first. thank you for the invitation to this conversation it is extremely nice to be in your studio to talk to your audience and the question about uh history the meaning of history in the context of this war i is extremely important first of all this war is really a historical event not only when it comes to about ukraine when it comes to the world and world changes. in fact, this is the end of the period of the so -called long peace after the cold war - it is the restructuring of relations in europe in the world in relation to the relations between europe and russia

and of course, this is an extremely big change for ukraine, a nation, modern nations are imagined to be formed in a big way some of the intellectuals , including historians, the fathers of eastern european nations are intellectuals, historians such as mykhailo hrushevskyi, but nations are formed and transformed, reformatted in the context of very important very dramatic and heroic and tragic events, such as they are, and for me there is no doubt that starting from 2014 in ukrainian society, in fact, tectonic changes began to take place, including relative interest in history, attitudes towards history, and these 300 days of war,

in fact, only strengthened strengthened these these processes this is of course a challenge for us, for historians, for the workshop of historians who, well, for a long time actually wrote for themselves when our degrees, our positions, our career advancement and so on depended solely on evaluations of colleagues and writing for the general public , being included in social processes was considered completely uncomilfo part due to the fact that inclusion in these uh, wider and social processes by the year 91, in fact, began to leave history as a profession from the side and engage in propaganda that was required of us then the communist party, the communist regime, it changed but uh, the change of attitude in the professional environment turned out to be an extremely long process and

a more conservative process if the record request today is also the question how can we historians will be able to answer it. because the questions that society always asks in war or no war are one and the same. where are we from or are we children? where are we going and the key turning points? independence, you remember it well in the 90s, was not connected with the answer to political historical questions, primarily with the answer to economic questions, and then we already had to say that if we cannot answer the historical question, you will always not be the question arises: why does this state exist at all, how does it differ from neighboring russia, why did it become independent, or did

the economy and well-being really become the platform for a huge number of ukrainians to live in an independent state, and it always seemed that these are all historical questions that are out of date, what is needed first build a state b is economically very effective, and only then talk about the differences, and between these , russia is next to it. it seems to me that there were either completely opposite or parallel processes. russia was changing economically, but also politically and the historical one turned into the chauvinist organism that we see today, and this is also a very good question. russia also presented its historical program in ukraine at a time when ukraine itself was not ready to understand itself. definitely, what was happening in russia was actually a return to the narratives before the soviet people related to history and

historiography before the 17th year in ukraine were also looking for the truth about the history of hrushevskyi's work in the works of people who worked before the 17th year, but what they found they actually found mainly ukrainian liberal nationalism or national historical paradoxes is what putin and others found when they turned to the russian narrative before the 17th year through the mediation of the minister cena and others, because he was persian by birth and he was actually very clearly adopted by the state and the state became the main main promoters, so to speak, but also the main policemen of this process of the historical historical reconstruction of russia, what has changed is the same as it was during the imperial

times of the soviet union, the soviet union is the center on the state, society was actually completely leveled and pushed aside . commissions were created on the truth of the history of the second world war and so on, which not only determined how to write, but also determined how those who do not write would be punished. thus, at that time, what happened in ukraine actually happened the competition of several narratives, from liberal-national to soviet post-soviet to radical nationalist, and this process was quite natural, it took place gradually with the change of generations, but what does this mean that when the time of testing came in 2014, in particular, it turned out that russia has a very strong aggressive imperial

narrative, supported by the state, to which ukraine was actually not ready , was not ready to respond, that is, to look, for example, at the st. george's ribbon and the second world war, that is, russia actually came with a very developed, very flexible narrative of the second world war but the only national one at a time when the second world war in ukraine became one of the most key moments of disagreement and discussion russian meetings turned out to be extremely more flexible. that is, there you could associate yourself with victory in, say, the second world war or participation in the great patriotic war, without necessarily associating yourself with communism or not necessarily associating yourself with stalin, while the divisions in the ukrainian e -e discourses that were

supported by russia amounted to actually er-e absolute radicalization of views, i.e. if you are a ukrainian, if you somehow look at the second world war through ukrainian eyes, you must be from bandera, i.e. a connection with the same upa, a connection with the same liberation war without connection with the radical nationalism of this period was virtually impossible, that is, in this war of narratives in 2014, we found ourselves in a very, very weak position, and this weak position was actually leveled during the last eight years, and ukrainian society met this weight i am much more aware of myself and my history than i was in the 14th year. i know this simply from personal experience, from the demand that has appeared

for historical literature in ukraine, including translations of some of my books. i would like to clarify about these two, provide russian-ukrainian, but first of all, i will clarify about the russian people, because you are talking about the imperial narrative of russian thinking. can you explain to me as a historian. minorities because ethnic russians make up for the most part the majority of the population of the russian federation, it seems to us that 85%, speakers of the russian language are even more, how can such a state consider itself an empire how did people manage to convince people that this is an empire when it is just an ordinary national state, it is an unusual national state, it is on the way to becoming a national state with an extremely strong tradition of existence as an

empire, that is, in fact, for the first time, the russian federation or russia if we did not define it received a border and institutions that were separate from the empire only with lenin in 22-23 years when the soviet union was created, but even then the association of russia and the soviet union actually took place both within russia and outside the borders of the soviet union, that is, during the cold war, russia and the soviet union were substitute words. that is, they were defined as one and the same thing, and to learn empires to exist in the context of a modern state, which is still only a form informed by the national state after centuries of existence in other contexts this is a very, very difficult

process, just like how to learn for ukrainians whether the national project arose in the struggle with the state in opposition to the state, to learn to live in a state that is even one's own state, these are also processes, and this change is also very difficult it seems to me that in the conditions of the russian-ukrainian war, which began in 14th year, so it continued on such a large scale this year, this is an extremely serious impetus for reformatting not only ukrainian identity and our way and the opportunity to live in our own state, to appreciate it, to use it for society, but it is also an extremely big impetus for reformatting the russian identity, which until now actually used the models of the russian empire and the great russian nation where there is little dew in the great dew

belarusians are all one big nation under this flag, the war started in 14th year and continues this year. occurs not only in ukraine, it also occurs in russia, and the message about this message is being sent more and more with a load of 200. well, and about the ukrainian people, don't you think that what is now a certain common vision of historical processes and state processes are connected not only now with the competition, let's say, of different scientific approaches and different political approaches, which are now not important from the point of view of the survival of the state and the nation itself, but simply because after the events of 2013-2014, a real

political nation began to form, which is no longer limited by the ethnic boundaries of the ukrainian people themselves, of course, ukrainians for 100 years, they tried to keep themselves young, there was no other way. i would say that the other council was like an ethnic project, but in the ukrainian state, now we see a political project of a political nation and it is developing before our eyes, the project of a political nation was actually formed among the dissidents of the ukrainian government, so to speak, the condominium that was created at that time was extremely important from this point of view, if you look at the hm helsinki groups in russia and the dissidents of russia, they were divided between, relatively speaking, sugar and human rights and the democratic process and sushenitsa's russian nationalism in ukraine

within the framework of the helsinki group was a combination of national and democratic elements and ukraine in 1991 rose up as the project at least as a promise of the project of a political nation, because of the project of an ethnic nation, which was tried to be realized in the 17-18-19-20s, it was not realized, that is, it could not protect itself partly due to ethnic, linguistic , religious and so on divisions between cities and villages, in particular, in project 91 in the 19th year, it was a project to unite a ukrainian-speaking village and a russian-speaking city with a large ethnic population on the basis of the already territorial idea of ​​the state and the territorial idea of ​​the nation, but it was actually only a promise and a realization began or rather, the implementation began already

then, but we saw the results only in 2014 , we did not know how successful this process was or not, the fact that ukraine survived in 2014-2015 showed that these previous efforts were not yet completely wasted, that is, russia came with the idea if you you speak russian , you are russian, your loyalty should be to russia, you should welcome the russian troops, motorola slides and so on with flowers and some of the population did the same but the majority refused to do it this linguistic cultural identity and loyalty was opposed by the idea that we do not unite around one language, we do not unite around one religion despite the fact that the symbolic value of the ukrainian language is extremely great, but the war is fought in two languages ​​at least and

many nationalities and loyalty is to this state, about which many have never thought positively at least, because it provides the basics of freedom and liberty, which for us are absolutely natural, and which we realized after the 14th year, they are not guaranteed by any other state, that is, on the contrary, another state comes and takes away the 22nd year - this is the next step on this path, the role of the ukrainian language in ukrainian culture is growing. this is absolutely obvious, especially in the conditions when the language was used as a tool for destabilization for destabilization of the state, the question of how to

preserve the political, cultural and so on floralism with the increase in the importance of the ukrainian language and culture , that is, the internal freedom that today the ukrainian army ukrainian ukrainian society protects, tell me, mr. serhiy. and what parallels do you see with that war in recent history? the president of ukraine quoted the prime minister of great britain during his speech in the congress of the united states, youth, in churchill's famous speech, which he emphasized that great britain will never lay down his arms before the reich and you really see here the parallels between the current war and the second world war by the way these parallels are drawn by the president of russia vladimir putin now only with another sign means yes one of british correspondents called president zelenskyi a cherchel with an iphone, that is, these

parallels, these parallels exist not only in the person of, let's say, the leader of today's leader of ukraine and then the leader of the leader of great britain and this war is the biggest military military-political conflict military the conflict in europe since the second world war since 2014 annexation of crimea and now the formal annexation of the territory that even the russians control in the south in the east of ukraine - this is also the first example of the annexation of the territory by one state on the territory of another state in europe after 1945, that is, look at the number of refugees, look at the number of troops, look at the amount of suffering, look at the level of war crimes, we have nowhere

else to look and look for parallels than the second world war . it is obvious even if you look at the rhetoric used by both sides of the russian-ukrainian war - it is on a certain level - it is an attempt to use the rhetoric of the second world war. that is, you fascists, no, you are fascists, you behave like a fascist, that is, the sidewalk of historical memory, the repertoire of historical comparisons leads us one way or another to the second world war. glory to ukraine to the heroes of glory, that is, it is now devoid of, let's say, the narrow, narrow, radical national sound that was the interwar period, but it is also this also our attempt to search for the so-called usable pass, that is, the past, which may be necessary to help us today, this is again and again the

second world war, a question for and for us and for the world, or this war, which until now remains regional, but is so large-scale that it can really become such a harbinger or a trigger for a general european or global conflict, but the parallels are extremely clear, we were not in a similar situation europe as a whole since the end of the second world war in 1945, i want to ask you when we talk about the history of the ukrainian people. and now it is such a special moment, for sure, when we look at the historical contribution of various groups population, including those whom we

include in ukrainian ethics, political , cultural, scientific, whatever, there have always been people who defended the idea of ​​ukrainian sovereignty, self-reliance, the right to one's own statehood, the right to one's own language and culture, and there have always been people who, conditionally speaking, wanted to take place in empires, these are parallel processes conditionally speaking, mykola gogol chose the russian language at about the same historical period when taras shevchenko chose ukrainian, both of them could normally work there, one in russian and the other ukrainian, i.e. change places if they had different human and cultural philosophies. there were ukrainians who were part of the imperial apparatus of suppression of everything ukrainian. they are still in the russian federation. there were ukrainians who were part of first of all russian and then soviet science .