i just don't understand, because it seems to me that it was about 50 million for 30 million euros, if you understand the numbers well, there were some inconsistencies in the messages, and first of all, the lamps will be issued to those who fill out the application in action, yes, in my understanding, there is such a need in those paws there may be low-income people who live mainly somewhere in the countryside somewhere there is one zhirivka , mostly these people who use the button we call, they will not fill out the application in action and that is, this is the number one question and the second the question is those who own this lamp, well, those who act and sit, as a rule, there are no more lamps. and we have this. well, it was scattered, first of all, because who does not need them, and who can get them, and secondly, well, in our country, if even count 14 there and six million households, then more than half of them, firstly, already have a whole lamp , secondly, you can buy it in a nearby store , people have done this with this data for a long time, that is, i

miss the fact that we will have 2-3 million households for whom the lamps will actually be useful , that is we will give away five million, and in the end they will have a newer one here for us, yes. that is, in principle, you can buy them for me. for example, it will be a shame to go there to ask for those lamps. well, you can, in principle, try how the procedure works, but we can ask the european union, in fact, it is a more important task for us, so we can ask for heat pumps, for example we can ask for some more important components. and we asked for a lamp, and there are european ones. you will say praise the lord. we asked for the light bulbs. they will give us those light bulbs . you see, we also need this feeling somewhere. that's right, the lessons were 10 late, if it had been done 10 years ago, well, the effect would be the same now. well, let's talk about other effects about solar power, because now, in the wake of these blackouts, it has become very fashionable and popular to install

solar power plants on farms, plus or minus well, i know there is about $10,000, it costs, but at least for those colleagues who are journalists in my colleague, but at the exit they received the fact that when there is no sun and at the end of december we have the least sunny days, then in this village the station gives 300 w 500 w all in this case and pay back $ 10,000, well, for sure and in general the effectiveness of investing this money is under a question mark, your attitude to such investments , solar stations are the right solution, but in our geographical latitudes , they will not perform in the winter the task of fully supplying the house or apartment with electricity, they will not do it. the maximum that you can get from a large station there is from three to 10 kw, that is 100-300 w of energy, and this will give you the opportunity to power your gas boiler, for example your gas boiler will consume somewhere around 100. well, maybe there are 80 to 120

notebooks from the model there and such a solar station for a lot of money will give you the opportunity to power your boiler and you will have heat in the house if there is gas, well, let's say yes, but it ’s cheaper for me to buy a generator for this money and there is no economic sense to generate it, it can have a security sense, that is, if there is no electricity for a month, and then the generator is the cost of a kilowatt-hour from the generator costs about hryvnias 25-30 gasoline is typical once because you need we need gasoline, we need a generator, we need it from to watch it and so on, that's why starting from april, this station will produce much more, that is, then it can be used . in my opinion, in the situation in which we are now, it is better to install a generator plus a battery system, that is, if you want to spend money somewhere that is, take several lithium or gel batteries, take an inverter, and this amount will cost you 1,000-1,500 dollars, and in principle you will be able to power your system , accumulate electricity from the

network when you have it, and when you do not have it simply use the electron and this electricity. in general, we now have such a rethinking of the electricity supply and the popularity of these individual solutions will grow first after the destruction of the energy system against the colossal subsidies that received electricity for the population in previous years we simply do not, well, alternatively, we will come to the moment when electricity for the population will become more expensive and analysts predict every moment, well, this is what business is paying now. the fact that now the business pays for electricity and this is an unavoidable situation because if we take electricity from the european union, for example, and we took help from the european union at the time of otsi kudar, then this is the amount to whom this price is paid for electricity somewhere, but not there to its producers and other producers. that is why we are waiting for it there, and returning to the green

energy of the solar green - this is a solar tariff, it will exist and function now, because even before the beginning, the verkhovna rada talked about the need to cancel or reduction of this tariff, because what is the point of this policy? what was the point of this policy? people earn , save their money, start taking energy from the sun. the state buys this energy at a higher tariff, and the truth is that i support it. well, yes, but in this way, we are stimulating alternative types of electricity generation. now, will this strategy be preserved? no, after the war, how is it in our country? we are trying to eliminate disparities with various subsidy systems. plus there is also the distribution of transportation, ah, then it cannot cost hryvnia 60 for

the population. and if it costs 4-5 hryvnias there, then a green tariff is not needed. that is, we then have a situation in which at the real cost of electricity and not to that, no, no in fact, this price is hryvnia 60 for the population, which is constantly subsidized by industry, industry, the budget sphere, that is, they pay more. for that, well, now it is actually paid by the operator of the transmission systems, respectively. hmmm, if those price disparities are removed they will be removed, the payback will immediately appear for your solar station and your batteries that you can install, that is, the logic and need for their installation will change very much. it is cheaper to install your own solar power plant and have your own electricity during the day, especially there already during the daylight hours in the warm period of the year, than

to buy electricity from the network, that is, the need for a green tariff as such disappears when the normal price of electricity is not subsidized. and now we have a situation where our electricity for the population is tripled, we have a situation where gas for the population is ten times higher than that. in fact, it creates the illusion that it is cheap and kills the motivation of the economy, and we spend money instead of spending it. for warming, for example , houses. we use cheap gas as a result . we have a temperature again, and then, as you yourself described, it's 28° in the apartment of this hotel. how long have we been opening the windows you can talk about it like that, but in the hotel, the solution is, well, relatively speaking, the head of the city's heat and power company says yes, is it difficult for us to stop the heat supply there for a day or two a week? require these processes. that is, again, you cannot completely stop the boiler house , that is, well, you have a strong problem with hot water

, that is, you have everything, the supply circuit will work, uh, you can lower it the temperature, that is, if you demolish it, if you reduce heat extraction at the level of the house, then accordingly the automation at the boiler room will reduce the temperature and supply. that is, these are connected systems, but this must be done, so that at the level of the country, there should be some kind of policy, there should be an incentive, not just an obligation at the level of cities, there would be understanding and the ability to implement such things, we as an association are engaged in exactly this, about the ability of cities to organize this whole process, it is normal, but there must be some state incentives, not just obliged thank you oleksandr slobozhan we are joined by the executive director of the association of cities of ukraine oleksandr congratulations mr. oleksandr yes, we haven't heard from you yet , sorry for waiting for us for so long, what is the situation, we were talking about the fact that the temperature record in ukraine is there for all well , in kyiv, in particular, for 135 years of research on

the average temperature by day, and it is almost april here, well, according to the temperature regime, and nevertheless, the heating there is at the same level as minus 10 or -5. and what kind of energy efficiency can we talk about even at levels of urban heating and heat supply in the buildings of ukrainian citizens, which are now possible solutions in such a summer-spring temperature regime should be adopted by the leaders of the cities, heating communes, local energy organizations, i ask for a good day, dear nadia, hear me now well, first of all , the heating system provision of the city is not the same as pressing the tv on the remote control and turning it on and off; it is a complex system where there is a centralized heat supply, so it is completely

unlocked when the temperature of the outside air rises, it is not clear that the appropriate measures are taken by the managers of these utility companies. they use the second point, as it is directly reflected in the local budgets and, accordingly, at work . of course, we are saving gas consumption in such a period. and i want to remind you that in the summer we held a number of meetings together with the ministry of the region of ukraine, and accordingly, at the level of the cabinet of ministers of ukraine , savings on gas consumption were introduced.

calculated according to e-e for each month ago. of course, if the amount of gas consumption decreases, there is a saving as a financial resource, which will then be used for e-e in the next period when the temperature regime will decrease. it is clear that e-e appropriate technical e-e works are being carried out on these enterprises and to reduce the temperature of the coolant supply to the appropriate power of our residents, but completely unlock the city, as you said, it is unrealistic and then there will be significant problems when the temperature drops and again start-up of heat supply systems will occur and there will be such er, they are called gusts

er, which will then require more er resources and, accordingly, er, more measures to er, fix them, thank you, i understand. well, nevertheless, i understand that even the temperature is low it's bad, the temperature is high, it's also bad. since we can reduce consumption, oleksandr. and i, well, it's like you, on the contrary , the main message i wanted to convey is that a warm winter is a plus for our heating supply companies, because we reduce gas consumption, respectively, on the other hand, it's financial resource, tell us about you, is it enough until the end of the frosts, and is there enough money in local communities in oleksandr to pay the difference for household consumers between the price at which these consumers buy gas and the real price at which this gas is bought in those to the companies that

extract it, thank you very good question, there are different estimates and do you remember that the government in the summer adopted a resolution obliging naftogaz to provide 19 billion cubic meters of reserves for stable passage of the heating season, then these figures were adjusted accordingly, we formed the energy balance there to be overlapped by electricity, fuel oil, coal , and this was all discussed, published, and the last figure that was available was 14.5 billion cubic meters we then carefully evaluated these data. why, because it is necessary to approach not as a whole, as an average,

but to take the temperature per ward, but for each separate municipality, the starting position is such that, accordingly, all municipalities are at 2000 in the season in 2022-23, it will be reduced by 10% gas consumption to ensure the corresponding economy, but there are some municipalities that switched to other sources of consumption or carried out energy efficiency measures that reduce this consumption by 20 to 30%, they are not mutually included, that is, for example, the city of dubno having saved 30% of the consumption there , the city of rivne cannot transfer its volumes. rivne, where the consumption volumes are completely different, we now cautiously optimistically estimate that

we will have enough gas until the end of the heating season. this is the second time. as for financing, you hit the spot here. here is the biggest problem. i explain why we have an active memorandum between the association of cities of ukraine and the central government, which provides for the following: the municipal government does not increase the electricity tariff for heat supply, and the central government compensates with financial resources the difference between the low tariff at which these services are currently supplied to the population and the economically justified tariff and my colleague spoke on the air about the fact that the business now de facto buys and consumes uah 14 billion of so-called subvention is provided in the state budget to compensate for the difference in tariffs, and an appropriate methodology was adopted to

carry out a commission in the regions that determined the amount of debt, but unfortunately, as of today, none the municipal authorities did not receive a penny as compensation, assuming that we have already received an official letter from the ministry of regions that in the 23rd year we will work, all the difference will be compensated, accordingly, work with the documentation, in no case do not raise tariffs e-e it so happened that the parliament e-e did not have time to adopt the law 80 26 that provided for the 14 billion that were already provided for by the law for the 22nd year, they had to be passed through e-e accounts for mutual settlement of live money understand the municipality from this receives

this mutual settlement costs a subvention, it seems that the municipality comes and immediately returns to nak naftogaz as compensation, and accordingly nak naftogaz e-e settles with the state budget there it is reduced by e-e dvd in a different way. that is, it is such a circular scheme as is grabbing debts, so uah 14 billion was foreseen, we did not receive them, but the amount was 40 billion, and draft law 826 predicted that another uah 26 billion would be allocated. as it is , naftogaz naftogaz also indicated stable sources, but unfortunately, the parliament on the last day e -he did not find an opportunity to consider it, instead, the scandalous draft law 56-55 on urban planning reform was considered, that is, it is conditionally

transferred to developers in ukraine. the version of the parliamentarians, the only thing i wanted was a concise answer, and who then pays now the difference for gas between the real price and the public utility price for individuals, who pays now if we are talking about an alternative example of hayvoron of the kirovohrad region and completely on the local budget, and here it already depends on the capacity of the local budget, sometimes this is a deficit of 30-40%, and that is 50% of the volume of the local budget. that is, we are actually killing all other areas of the municipality, if we are talking specifically about gas, then of course it is there is an increase in accounts payable with the hope that after all the obligations of the central authorities will be fulfilled, this amount will be repaid in the

following periods. methods of obtaining energy, e.e., thermal energy, that is, it is also for this, such local wood chips, straw waste to pour in and so on, because you can talk, but, for example, there is myrhorod, there is zhovkva, there is dubno which was the first time in ukraine to switch from gas completely to local fuels and this gives a certain guarantee of these services and they can well, first of all, they will leave this money in the local budget, nobody pays for money for heat oil and gas somewhere, this money remains in the local economy, this is this, these are positive moments like this, and what is more, there is a certain tendency in european countries and in the european union to localize production and energy and heat from

local types of energy, and i will remind you about the existence of this european green agreement on the transition to renewable energy sources and the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by the 50th year. this process also concerns us . this is a guarantee of supply. thank you oleksiy kucherenko . we are joined by people's deputy, former minister of housing and housing and first deputy chairman of the parliament committee on energy, oleksiy. good evening. good afternoon . sacked executive director of the association of cities of ukraine, he told incredible things that now the deficit of local budgets reaches half to 50%. due to the fact that local budgets cannot pay the difference between the market price of gas and the price of gas, of course, for household consumers, that is, this

social component, so to speak, from this price, and that the parliament did not have time to pass law number 80 26 in order to compensate for the difference , tell us about i am asking for this story, well, there is no need to simplify it. i have great respect for mayors between the municipal heads and the associations of stepan slobozhan, we are working. he knows that i always support them, but the roots of the problem need to be sorted out. the fundamental problem is that ukraine has fallen into the easter of so-called market quotation marks. the price of gas is the market price. -e, at the expense of some import , to switch to some exchange, then in amsterdam, then physical education, it had nothing to do with the real gas market, it had nothing to do with it, and in the near future it will not have, but for now this is vicious absolutely tied to import parity

, it played the corner of teplokomunenergo, the operator of getes, operators of gas distribution networks, and the same nak naftogazm, as all its profits, they are air, they are fictitious, and the budget was built completely incorrectly on this vicious ideology, and now, on the one hand, we develop we are raising the issue of the huge debts of the old, because there really is a total of debts of 100 billion, if you take teplokomunenergo, the mts operator, the timing operators , and so on and so on, that's how we are so far we solve old debts and they can't extinguish them in any way. of course, at this time today , new debts appear and our song is good, and how can we break this hand -wringer? such , well, dark, such muddy water in which the fish catch

, as for the fact that these funds were allocated, i to some extent, well, these are not funds, they are actually a series of budgets, you understand, because these are fictitious operations of running such calculations of the public hall, yes, on the one hand, i can agree with mr. laid off, but here it appears another question: why didn’t the old debts pay off in a year and a half? for a year and a half, somewhere there are laws and they didn’t have time to extinguish these three barry. the battles were big, as the naftogaz championship supported the position, but my colleagues did not hear me as a matter of principle. let's figure out why. in one and a half years, these simple operations cannot be done by all the participants in this process, but once again i want to say this is the way to me while we are paying off old debts, new ones are appearing, this is all being done, it is

winding up. therefore, we definitely need to have our own full-fledged gas market of ukraine to have our own index of the market t not for gas, and actually speaking then we were therefore in the real economy to somehow work but no, not in the mirror, although there will be one problem. if the gas market were to work now, according to experts, the market price for gas would be at the level of uah 20-22 per hour. it is absolutely clear that teplokomunenergo did not pull it, but as of today, they count on gas being supplied to them for 40 days yes, imagine the threefold increase in the price of gas for teplokomunenergo, this tariff heat will increase at least two and a half times there, and its debts are piling up there anyway, because in my opinion, we must understand for a certain long enough period that the gas of ukrainian production of the state company nak naftogaz must to follow

an economically justified price for the problems of the population and teplokomunenergo is the so-called mode of assigning special duties and this will guarantee that there will be no struggle replica from our expert slava pavlyuk to you i am asking, and in principle i have no reply. it’s just that if nothing works for 10 years, it means the system doesn’t work, it means people are simply demotivated to save. teplokomunenergo is dismantled to save a-a at the expense of the dated de-facto and i emphasize the subsidized price of gas because we pay extra from the state budget to of this business, we have a situation in which we kill all motivation to work on efficiency and allocate money that is not really efficient in the end. and for cheap gas and while this gas will be cheap. and we buy a third of it abroad for that in order to heat, that's why we have import parity, we have a third of the gas for heating needs already abroad, yes, because it was simple

, we will have such a situation that we will endlessly generate debts, let's take it in turns that debts are generated from the fact that it is not profitable for us to save and your situation with the hotel, the prosecutor told when for the heat that you throw out the e-e through the window, 60-70% is paid by the state budget, because teplokomunenergo is also interested in calculations and they will not save, you sell pies to you for two-thirds of the transition is paid for by someone else, we have destroyed the motivation of the economist, the only motivation to save is the price, people do not know how to save energy, people know how to save money, if we do not create a legal situation, it saves money, we then pay extra from the state budget to this, run around in circles and ask norwegians, americans give us 3 billion cubic meters of gas so that we can make it to the end of winter. thank you, maksym , i'm just clarifying that mr. svyatoslav is an expert in energy conservation .

i listen with pleasure when they talk about energy efficiency here. i am ready to discuss, but when you don't start , gas specialists would do it. sorry. this is a complete disaster. that's why you didn't ask mr. slobozan, yes, he had 10 days. well , they would ask him for ready city tariffs for teplokomunenergo calculate gas for 20 hryvnias , they are ready to set the population a tariff of 2.5 times or more, whether or not the population will pay this tariff, whether or not there is no such manipulation as long as you can, remember, please , no one dates tina for gas from us naftogaz for the heating component because it is a cost price. but there is a third of the gas there, unlike naftogaz. there is actually no impor. today we produce 20 billion and we consume 20. let 's finally listen to the people, calculate the gas

. look at the gas balance of the country. we won't, don't you want to listen to and maybe then the strengthening will be market-based. well, ukrainian, what can it be depending on the gasoline generator, it can't be depending on the cost, on the income of the population, friends in this the process is there, the gas is true. with such market prices for a, friends, let's move on to the staff and look at the minutes of the match of all the discussions easter eggs, let them come , yes, the committees have their intense questions for you, not on the air, what awaits us during the 23rd year in the plan of us as

consumers of energy and heating services, mr. oleksiy, i am asking for 40 seconds in a nutshell, nothing catastrophic, don’t wait, because this is how it happened in our country, consumption has disappeared, today we have a balanced gas production and consumption there will definitely be a certain population there. it will be difficult to pay, but it will be paid. today , certain debts are accumulating in gali, you are in other sectors , but it is not catastrophic there. i can't speak to anyone who doesn't understand it, say it only to the enemies, block the uprising today. i don't want to discuss with them. i want to come to the committee. let the christian position come. there are no questions. thank you, oleksiy kucherenko, maksym well. let's be constructive as the deputy chairman

of the parliamentary committee on energy issues as the minister of housing and communal services and even once the governor of my native zaporizhzhia region if i'm not mistaken i'm not mistaken thank you for your participation sviatoslav you have 30 seconds please we can't win the entire this discussion of the war to provide the population with affordable energy, the leader of the conversation is only talking about the price of gas, which we do not have enough of, let me remind you that our state-owned producer does not produce as much gas as we need, we can introduce this the discussion about ensuring adequate supply only within the framework of energy efficiency programs when we reduce the need for this gas and stop importing it or buying it from commercial producers, that is why the question is here. subsidies and this year again allocated 0 to the nere