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i welcome you to the espresso channel. today in our military program we will talk about what are the latest combat aircraft and helicopters our armed forces need, how should we develop our unmanned and military transport aviation, where do we have certain competencies in our defense industrial companies? - transport aviation, my name is serhiy zhorits, i am the director of the information consulting company defense express, which , together with the espresso channel, strives to highlight the most relevant trends in the life of our armed forces, and my interlocutors today - this is oleksandr los, ex-director of the antonov concern, doctor of technical sciences, and now the captain of the armed forces, who takes care of the future directions of the development of the ukrainian army. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you. i congratulate mr. serhiy and gyurem

slava . i congratulate you on a good day and i would like to start our conversation with a question to mr. valery about your vision of why it happened that the russian aviation still did not manage to ensure dominance in the air and this prospect for them becomes even more directly important in view of both the loss and the gain of air defense systems, why did the enemy fail to do this in the first phase of the war ? they did not prepare for the fact that such a defense would need to be broken through, they did not prepare either special units or special aircraft, and when they faced our

anti-aircraft missile systems , it was easier for them with aircraft, because their aircraft were still despite the heroism of our pilots, their planes are much more modern, have longer-range weapons, and have, let's say, weapons that operate according to more modern principles, but still, they were preparing to parade through ukraine and were not prepared, so that means what happened, their aviation is now afraid to fly into our territory at all and after we also received from several anti-aircraft complexes in the west , so it generally means death for her, like flying deeper than there by 2-3 km to our territory, oleksandr, i would like to ask you, can you? we usually mention air defense systems as the main method of protection against enemy aircraft, but

more than once in our programs, you and i discussed the situation related to the transition to new aircraft, which are extremely necessary for the armed forces forces of ukraine, and that is why there is this balance between the means of air defense and aircraft, which we must now pay the most attention to in order to build an optimal scheme of protection against enemy attacks. there are two levels of issues that can be discussed: the first plane is purely political, and the second is the logistical availability of certain types of aircraft, and there is one more feature directly in ukraine, that is, i want to remind everyone of the hijacking of the mig-25 plane, which was hijacked by a soviet pilot with the ukrainian surname of bilenko, and was in japan researched by american specialists what was uh, 70 years have passed? well, the same thoughts

about the fact that if a single-seater plane is transferred to ukraine, then a pilot with the word black at the root of his surname can also use this plane and driving it to russia or the satellites of belarus, there is another aspect here. that is, this is the so -called confidence-building. i am with this confidence-building, that is, i am building trust . mostly american partners did not trust us in america even in the 17th year, i personally heard it inserted that ukraine is second best, it is the second russia, and this is the opinion , of course, it evaporates already, but there is still such a look somewhat suspicious no to the whole of ukraine, not to all ukrainians, but to individual people who can do such a thing, and no one takes this aspect out of the accounts, that's why,

for example, getting a two-seat f15 is much easier and faster than getting a single-seat r16 , because it is probably more difficult for the two-member crew of hnat to square the plane than to hijack the plane in one pilot, he may not even have time to shoot it down, this is what concerns combat aircraft, namely fighter aircraft. well, what we said, what i said about availability, i am just using information from defense express about the fact that everyone's favorite griffin, by the way, can also fly an airplane, it's just that the rates of its production are so low that it is not possible to satisfy the demand of peacetime. well, it’s just the lack of attack aircraft, even those 10 tenderboltics are standing in the deserts of the united states, well, it was known before. they are assembled together. they are

simply unsuitable for transfer. to worry that it will be stolen and transferred to russia or belarus. this is just a flying cannon, a volcano, there is no high-tech there, but they are simply missing helicopters, combat helicopters, apach helicopters . will probably get there, just like the abrams tanks, but something simpler, like the august westland 129 and 139. one could count on this to have some uh, reasonable prospects, no one says that it will happen today or tomorrow, but let's say in about six months, we could already hope for this p

. of the armed forces when we say f16 e f15 f18 gripen what is your vision what are the limitations and possibilities for obtaining this or that type of weapon well i would like a small remark a small addition to uh dear colleague means to say that the fear that the plane will be received by the russian side is easily compensated by installing 20 g of explosives on particularly important devices after this detonation in case of crossing the border. types of aircraft, you know the basics, well, i guess oleksandr perfectly knows the basics about the technical problem with which the americans do not let us, they

say that their f-16 and f-15 planes will not be able to operate from our airfields because in we have runways made of slabs with gaps and simply cannot stand happiness, that is why, in my opinion, it means that we somehow need to plan short-term planning, which planes we would like to get, which means that, in the short term, we should to ask our allies to give us the f18, this plane has a much stronger chassis and it would be able to operate from our airfields without rebuilding them. because it means asphalting the lanes and reworking our airfields during the war, we will not be able to make these planes after the war we could get for adopted by the american congress on the law on linglis and after the war, transfer them to return

them to the americans, why else is this a feasible project , because on the bases of conservation, well, the same motto , montana, in arizona, there are now fifty f18 planes, according to a certain number of two-seater options, and these fifty are only the last ones, well let's say the penultimate f18c model of the fa18c aircraft. after that, we could hand over and then agree with the allies on what type we should rearm our air force, but already after the war f 16 f15 what can some another type but this is within the framework of the general nato air defense system, so to speak, we have to agree on this type with them. well, this is somehow my vision, well, oleksandr, is it really the last airfield we have that will determine the type of aircraft that we have to choose for

the period of hostilities for the period after war, isn't it too er a simplified version of the assessment and approach to the choice well, as you know, it is within the limits of a lot of vector optimization, so with the scientific term, of course, more than one parameter is present in the choice of an aircraft, but in our case with a very limited nomenclature of these types of aircraft, he correctly said that there are 18 more, i just didn’t want to give myself directly to the types, i also like the 18th precisely for its strength, because it is a carrier-based aircraft, but it is again simply about availability , political restrictions, etc. and yes further , the runway is not the only factor that affects the choice of this or that aircraft. of course, it must be taken into account. well, for example, in the 16th, it will be a limitation not because of the possibility of takeoff as

such, but simply because of its limitation load, that is, you will connect not two large bombs, only one. well, this is how i get it, i say as an example, that is, its operating loads on the ground in the air may be limited, there are no problems, eh, but you mentioned, eh, alexander, about these tenderbolts and ten yakshchikov asked for a visit. here he said that actually there is no point in transferring these attack aircraft to ukraine because the enemy has manpads there, but air defense and thus creates risks that these and such will be actively shot down from the other on the other hand, our su-25s are actively fighting along the length of the front, and is there no point in returning to this topic? i would like mr. valery to comment on this situation in terms of ten. well, in my opinion, the tenth is not needed there at all,

because they will really be shot down instantly. a highly maneuverable aircraft, but it does not have such protection systems and will not be able to see what it lost to the russian su-25s. well, ours too. by the way, we are suffering the biggest losses in this type of aircraft. of four types aircraft that we currently have and we need one main combat type of aircraft that will perform all these functions and by the way they perform successfully and i agree here that the f-15 and american it was it would be an ideal solution to this problem but unfortunately i i want to say that the problem with airfields is not the only one, but it is a significant problem, which greatly limits the combat capabilities of aircraft. so, what should i say? you should not ask the allies for more than just airplanes, because

a modern airplane is a system, and this airplane must be saturated with information. he has get a lot of information about the situation in the air, otherwise it will not be possible to realize its high capabilities, so we still have to ask the allies a question to make a request to transfer to us flying tactical radars together with them well, if only two, this is a deck, not an aircraft that would be able to provide the russians work with 150. how do they manage their aviation in our country? discussed, discussed, we see that we are finding more and more accomplices. in the understanding of the fact that it is an informationless field to talk about

increasing the effectiveness of our air defense, aviation. it is almost impossible to find any optimal solutions for precisely creating such a merocentric or even just an informational field, even with the proposal, as proposed by mr. valery, to get e-planes long-range professional detection in one or another format. i want to note that you and i even participated in the shelling of the magazine if any recently, there was an article about the ukrainian network-centric war, which is built on the simplest commercially available devices, well, with well-known systems of combat management of the tactical operational level, and so on, that's why this is a question. already, even a broad policy regarding air components that last year you and i said that thanks to american partners we have at least

limited, but still, access to data left avaks, that is, early warning planes that continuously fly along our western border, new corresponding ones of our other western borders of our enemies, and we have at least some advanced information about the air situation. that is, they really give us moral warnings. we already understand at least where and at what angle should we turn our antennas of our radars and that's it. thank you, if we really talk so comprehensively, then in general we need to rise to a higher level and think even better today started yesterday to think about the fact that we need to create our own samples, mr. serhii just mentioned about antonov that we have the ability to develop our carriers carriers i mean the plane as such as a

vehicle in order to install special equipment on it of many specialized enterprises of the ukrobo- ukroboronprom and now many private and specialist enterprises have joined, in fact , it is still the same that we are all from the same large school of the former soviet, which was created for that ukraine by nikity serhiyevich khrushchev on therefore, and for that too, we must remember him, thank him, er, i would like you to officially apply, er, let it be my official statement, a request to the president of ukraine, he declared 2020 the year of mathematics, in 2023, i propose to declare this year the year of cybernetics in full 50 years since the publication of the world's first encyclopedia of cybernetics and it was published. by the way, in the ukrainian language, few people know about it precisely on cybernetic principles, on which modern war and modern weapons are based, and, unfortunately, our enemy. i don't even want to

to say in january, the russian federation is not stopping its pace, it is building up its capabilities precisely in the development of quantum technologies and quantum computing, today they are already talking about autonomization in the production of lithographic machines, which are necessary for printing microchips of microprocessors. weapon control system battle control system e-e we are still hoping with you and reporting on our successes in obtaining the acquired foreign samples and, unfortunately, essentially neglecting our members of our abilities, we are capable, we are in the field of fundamental physics, mathematics, and so on, in addition to what needs to be said, yes, we would like to have some concrete samples , we must already make plans, even now during the war, but we must feed plans about what we need to create, improve all

defense-industrial complexes and precisely the directions to which the cybernetic directions are indicated. well, of course, thank you for constantly worrying about this, reminding about the means of intelligence, means of intelligence - i remind you it starts from space with an array of satellites, you all recently read that a large african country, nigeria, invited an array of several satellites and will continue to expand this array of military satellites, these are military satellites, just like the communications department, ukraine, which was one of the five largest space countries . things thanks to my colleague friend volodymyr gusov ukraine is the ninth member in the program of the american program international in the program artemis from returning to the moon and already the first the flight under this program took place at the end of last year, and i remind everyone that we are

ukraine, and mine is the same country that is a participant in this space program. that is why we need to finally move from just such descriptive things to program activities, program principles, as from from the strategic to the tactical level, we need to build our intelligence systems for managing all forms of the defense forces. well, now i will still return to the aviation component, precisely to the planes. the co-developer of which is the an-188 aircraft, he was one of the ideal candidates for creating flying control points, e.e., intelligence, incidental intelligence, just control , and so on. therefore, all these capabilities are there, they have not been shared, you cannot and should not shout about it loudly where exactly, in which, as some have

said, secret places, where does it take place but such work goes on and is again, it is necessary to support first-person games and so on p valeriu how do you assess the most promising directions for the development of our defense industry through the prism of the development of unmanned complexes and military transport aircraft. what do you think is now, well, in the format of what is possible for the ukrainian defense industry to release some specific product in a reasonable period of time? devices well, but, we have er, so now we have finally started to receive western components er for radio electronics and western components, and that is why we are now er managing to create equipment, intelligence equipment small-sized very effective well, for example, there

are radars synthesized by aperture, which means they are light and relatively cheap compared to western ones, and we will be able to create, for example, new, well, very effective reconnaissance drones that supplied well , mr. oleksandr spoke about information content and we now have an information system of the ground forces and this system it would be possible to supplement direct information in real time using such drones why are they better than drones with optoelectronic by radar equipment by synthesized equipment there is no bad weather, there is no night, there are no problems, it is uh, 24/7 receiving information 24/7, this is the first aspect, the second aspect, which i would ah, well, about which i wrote that in

my first articles somewhere around 2000 2018, which were published in the business press in the people's army, we have to work on new classes of drones, an unmanned drone fighter and unmanned transport e-e devices, for example, mariupol , we could provide with ammunition a-a, what else does it mean there with medicines a-a even a small amount of food by unmanned transport vehicles i er well, we from the museum transferred, so addresses, we transferred specific a-and that means informational materials and who produces such unmanned drones are cheap and their cost is 20-30 thousand dollars depending on er, depending on the number of ordered of devices, well, these classes

, well, of course, we still need to develop them in the near future. and we could use our capabilities to develop means of combating enemy drones, it was supposed to be a comprehensive sanction on jeeps that detected enemy drones by all the demonstrative signs, that is, optoelectronics , millimeter-range radar, which means there is also an acoustic system of some kind. so, in the ideal version, we would aim our fighter drones at them. well, that’s how i see the immediate prospects. and the further ones already mean. i guess it will have to. and i don’t, no, no. i touch on the question that others have quadcopters - of course they are needed, but now they are showing anti-copters and weapons on the screen. they are also needed and we had such developments. that is, they can be produced if they are non-serial

so there is quite a large number of a couple of oleksandr, and valeriy mentioned that it is necessary to create a proper type of unmanned complexes, what is your vision of what ukraine can do in the foreseeable future when we are talking about drones of the tactical operational-tactical and strategic level, what is within the limits of our capabilities for today, at the 2021 exhibition of weapons and security, in fact, it was shown to lead the potential that ukraine has and needs to be developed, but petrovych korostelov, whose general designer is most respected in ukraine i showed them my falcon 300, your humble servant oleksandr vasiliovych, this is what i showed islan, when cruise missiles were shown, ballistic missiles were shown, this is the entire range that ideologically has already been developed, which should

just be started to be implemented, do not wait until the turks do it, by the way, the river country is waiting for us while they will provide some specific types of weapons, and to make their own in ukraine for this, at least the most critical components, such as the engine engines, i mean the designer's gas-powered engines designers, mathematics, there are the main foundations. it’s just necessary to do it, brother, funds, i agree, he understands, getting funds from the international market is probably the most difficult task that i have been working on for 10 years, starting with anton’s projects and continuing . to an unmanned fighter jet, it is the most difficult issue of building international logistics from materials that are not available in ukraine. i will repeat again that these are composite materials - these are special steel light alloys and such

something like this does not exist, but at least we know and we can do it, we know how. therefore, we just need to raise all the plastic that was developed before the war and start implementing it, but it must be a task at the state level, otherwise, any private initiatives, all of them must be bumping into research institutes, specific different divisions, etc. p. valeriu ot e-e p . oleksandr talks about the top level of unmanned complexes, in particular the same complex you have, which actually is such a system machine that can solve down a series of tasks, on the other hand, we see there the experience of these cheap shaheeds that influence our consciousness and we begin to talk about the fact that let's create a ukrainian shaheed there, what does ukroboronprom actually hint at, in your opinion, where should it lie, let's say the point, the

middle point, the perception of this reality gives the level picture and day, the level of the shaheed, how should we perceive these two different poles of modern reality, and the issues of the ukrainian martyrs are not being discussed yet, what can be done, what is needed in the first place, immediately and eh, well immediately as soon as possible their development and the main thing is that mass production is the same mass and even more mass than that produced by iran because these shahids we can order elements of these shekets if something cannot be done there, for example, a navigation system if it cannot be done quickly in ukraine then we can order it in neighboring countries, for example, or take our developers somewhere in a neighboring country and there.