will grow up well, in kharkiv there were factories, which, well, institutes that are related to applied industries, there are institutes in which technical equipment plays a very important role. yes, to be honest, technical institutes are another matter, and some institutes. we took some institutes out of kharkiv there they couldn't take it out because they have a production facility and they refuse to leave. i know many cases, even in our department there is an institute whose employees refuse to leave, we offered them in kyiv to evacuate they don't want to come here. and tell me, you said in one

of your interviews that you were afraid of the depopulation of sumy oblast and chernihiv oblast. i'll be honest, i don't know at all how we will motivate business and the population to settle near the borders with russia, maybe people who stayed there, they are there and will stay there, people continue to live, i will continue at a very old age well, i think very a serious problem well, that is, in fact, it

is not only about the zone of shelling, but the pro-zone of a possible attack . and i say if it will be possible to ensure security, to ensure the security of the borders, to really ensure it is one situation. if we hope for an agreement with russia, it is another situation. yes , i understand that, but you know i still wanted it check this figure of 35 million and they say that there will be 35 million ukrainians, but weren't there 35 million before the war, how much more was there before the war, and how do you estimate it when there was no census, i apologize, well, you know, there are a lot of opportunities to estimate there all kinds of such indirect indicators that make it possible to

do this and uh communication means this and bank cards that's a lot believe me there are a lot of other methods we use to estimate the population for nothing more but to estimate the population you can use the so-called big data and how much then there was a population before the war, well, lamarov, you know, 38 and after the war it will remain 35, you are not a pessimist, an optimist, sorry. not like that, i say what if and what state instruments do you see to improve this situation, because we understand that a country of 30 million with such a territory is a country with big economic problems, well, there were 12 wars, the population density was, to be honest, low. well,

here and i got ready, in fact, the only possibility is the intensive development of the economy, the creation of decent jobs with decent working conditions according to payment, there is nothing else, there is no hope that we will somehow increase the birth rate there, well, there are not two in any country in europe. well, what are we talking about, but the countries of europe will be in ukraine, but the countries of europe are european, they are rich, and from this point of view, it will be not very many countries not very many countries give birth to more children and yes but in give birth to more children not in poor countries but in countries with an uneducated population so what is the problem simply poor countries precisely countries with an uneducated population the reason is not the poverty of the country but the reason is

low level of education, when a woman sits at home , she has internal interests , she does not want and does not have the habit of working , studying there, developing in some way, she can give birth to many children when the family is patriarchal, this is a different situation in ukraine , a paradoxical situation of the population has arisen according to its education according to its integration into social life well, okay, not social, but family, because of the emancipated ukrainian woman, this population is entirely european, at least european, and our incomes are not eastern

but i repeat once again that poverty is not typical poverty of asian or african countries. this is a completely different poverty, it is not even the romanian poverty of romania or bulgaria. what can be done in such a situation, apart from economic development, in order to increase the number of people, or nothing can be given you just have nothing more to you, we definitely have to take very serious measures to support the family there, about the natal policy and so on, but believe me , this does not give the effect that we we expect it must be done in any case it must be done we could restore the system of affordable preschools so that

mom could start working fairly quickly and not be forced to interrupt her professional life i don't want to use the word career in a very big way time, maybe it helped a little, but again, a little. but i am afraid that immediately after the war, the priority will not be the reconstruction of children's preschools, the priority will be housing , production will become. with a population of 30 million, from the point of view of population density, there are some similar countries that could be analyzed now from the point of view of their economic development. it is also not very populated. if you turn away from the big cities, the country is even empty

. well, in principle, you know, russia is recognized as having two opposite models. you know the model of success. i am absolutely convinced that a country with such natural resources is so successfully located. if it is possible to cope with the threat from russia, it will not be empty, but i really did not want to live here a completely different population so that the ethnos has changed very much not because i am such a racist or someone else is wrong, it's just that the simultaneous arrival of a significant number of immigrants threatens social tension in society, you can find out where

these emigrants come from, well, usually, but not in countries that are under the threat of war well , i say that if we manage to overcome the danger of russia, then if we are in a state of war, no one will come to us here, let's give an account to ourselves, this is not what we are talking about we are talking about the fact that it will be possible to end the war and the population is small, there is a peaceful country, but it does not have people and it needs a workforce, and then it is necessary to build a very, very carefully, very balanced migration policy that will give the opportunity to come here for a certain time, not to create such ethnic enclaves here, you know, try after all, to provide jobs

to all ukrainians, that is, if, roughly speaking, a turkish company is building a road there, then let the management be from turkey or from montenegro or from somewhere else. but the main workforce must be ukrainian. ukrainians first of all had the opportunity to earn and were not forced to leave. you know what you are saying now. this is a performance for the pre-election tough marinlipen. well, i don’t blame it for certain. i just thought to myself. well, there is, you know, we are not france. population density, secondly, there are traditions, the other thing that worries me is not that immigrants will do something, not that it

worries me that our people were brought up and lived all their lives in a mono- ethnic environment, ethnic ones are not allowed in the slavic environment, and if a lot of people will come here now people from a completely different culture with a different religion and a different way of life. i don't know how our people will react to what we had before the war . it is possible slavic well, people from india started arriving, let's say from some such countries well, nothing like that happened, did you see anything, well,

some kind of ethnic emigrant riots that are related to people from india or china, and they did not see it. on the contrary, i see some riots aimed at the chinese, but never organized, they ride like this, there is only one country where, from my point of view, she is without talent, this is canada, how do they do it, i don’t know, it seems that they calculate every job and every visa, what kind of visa do they issue or a residence permit well, yes, for every work visa, they conduct whole interviews, but you understand, ukraine after the war will not look like

canada. but for post-war germany, you know, after the war, germany simply imported citizens of turkey and offered them various benefits for turkish citizens, german citizenship only so that they come to build factories and houses, and by the way, you see turkish enclaves in german cities, right in the center of german cities, they are the center and they make me happy, i can honestly say the situation there is not as calm as i would like, i do not argue, but this is what europe looks like here, the question is here or there, and we will be forced to go for it. but we have to think. so when i talk about the eruption, the migration policy, i mean that we need to prepare our people for this by clarifying the belt. it seems to me that just the appearance of the turkish diaspora in ukraine is also a lot of changes because the mentality

of the urban population at least in turkey is very similar to ukraine we can talk about it now , we can turn a blind eye to it. i understand that most people are not thinking about it now. but these are people, people can and should not think about it. the government should also think about it so that they are already building some foundations for the post-war of the post-war demographic renaissance , any politician who wants to win the elections in ukraine will be just the person who will promise that there will most likely be no large migration, and this is bad. i'm not even talking about what she is. you know, tell me in principle if

we are talking about ukrainians who left for russia, this is also they, we did not talk about it at all, and this is an interesting topic, it is also millions of people, i just don’t know how many left, i have no idea. well, outside of certain estimates, up to 3 million people left or they were deported, but we don't know how many moved to western countries through russia, what did i want to say? well, what to do with them, what will be done with them, you wo n't do anything with them, will they return or will they stay in russia? i think that they will rather stay who left, who left forcibly and will return. i hope so, if they were really forcibly deported. and those who left with their own consent, yes, by the company, but with their own consent, most likely they will not return, unless they will have a very bad life there. to be honest with you at all this

the totality is very disturbing in the sense that russian propaganda works. it is very effective to hammer into people's heads what the russian authorities consider necessary. they succeed accordingly when these people return. well, i don't care if the feeling of patriotism will dominate in ukraine or if it will be dominated by the feeling of, well, you know, specific of a semi-colonial state. and tell me, please, do you think that such attitudes can exist only among the population that left for the east, and people who left for the west can also be encapsulated in those beliefs that they had before wars because they do not pass with other

populations, here i will tell you. trials of war, they just live somewhere in other countries, they are busy. believe me, they still pass, as they communicate with those who left, they are not indifferent to what is happening in ukraine , they are worried here, everyone left about people with whom you definitely do not communicate, there are people with whom you do not communicate well, maybe you know these people who will think that ukraine is a bad country, they simply will not return. nothing can be returned to them here, i will not go to those who believes in the future of ukraine, that is, it is believed that there will be such a selection, it will definitely be. and can ukraine in general attract some tools to come to it, ukrainians who left earlier, the selection can, and you know what instills such hopes in me, here after

the war, after the start of the war , they returned to ukraine for the first time two weeks ago 200,000 men, 200,000 men returned through the western border, this is the data of our border guards. they returned already knowing about the presidential decree, knowing that they would not be able to leave back, but they returned to their relatives and to their homeland, this is very it is expensive, when i talk about it, i bring these numbers to my european colleagues, they are honestly surprised, but i think that we can work effectively, not only in this sense of patriotism, but also because for the first time in 30 years, during such a long period, more people when it comes to surveys, i don't really

believe in quantitative surveys, but i believe in this dynamic precisely because it is confirmed by qualitative assessments. more people believe that the country is moving in the right direction than those who believe that it is in the wrong direction. i understand that now the main the direction is a repulse to the aggressor, i understand it very well, but nevertheless it indicates that we have begun to believe in our state, thank you, thank you, but martynivna, our interlocutor in this part of the program was ella libanova , director of the institute of demography and social research of the national academy of sciences of ukraine, academician of the national academy of sciences of ukraine and we are discussing, but here the democratic democratic demographic situation, which is now quite important from the point of view of the further development of our state, is of

great importance, what will the population really be ukraine after the war well, of course, we must clearly understand that we are discussing all these figures, they are primarily related to the analysis of the fact that the property will run out quickly, that we will run out there in a year, in two, three, five years of the war, you can count the minus there are 3-5 million and there will really be problems of who will live on the territory of the ukrainian state, not from the point of view of who will remain there and who will rebuild if there is no own population , all this creates huge problems for the future this is absolutely obvious and what is necessary take into account try to answer some questions that already exist. what do you think about the statement that russia no longer has the resources for war

? this is a ploy to make us relax and not be able to repel a new offensive. to be honest, i do not see any message that russia has no more resources for the war, an analysis of the magazine of which city in december of last year demonstrated that the russian economy in principle passed the test of sanctions much better than it was estimated in the west that russian economists worked on the fact that the russian financial system does not destroy itself, that russia still has billions of dollars from oil and gas in 2022, it earned more than in 2021, of course, the profits of 1023 will depend on how the oil embargo will work, how russia will be able to switch to the markets of the countries of the global south, what will it be in general, the price of oil in connection with the fact that there may be a global economic crisis, all this is

understandable . speaking for 3-5 years of war, russia will be enough but this is not only a question of money, this is a question of military equipment, this is a question of modern military equipment, this is a question of competition with western military equipment, this is a question of maintaining social stability among the population, that is, there are a lot of questions but i would not advise anyone how the generals wrote here, it seems that the syrians are industrious, and at the same time, you should not underestimate russia. you should not, er, underestimate the fanaticism of putin. you should not be allowed to evaluate the support of putin in russian society precisely when he is waging a war. one must not understand that for putin, ending the war is worse than continuing it, because the continuation of the war is a long-term conflict , we guarantee staying in power if there are

no earth-shattering events, and therefore i do not believe that the kremlin now remembers that putin enjoys the war, this is what i see but the fact that he is a person with uh, schizophrenic wounding, perfect thinking, i also see it is not a matter of panic, it is a matter of a peculiar type of thinking hitler and putin are very similar to him, he did not believe in the possibility of defeat germany somewhere until march, april 1945, when this defeat was absolutely obvious to everyone. herman herman, hitler's closest associate , told his loved ones already in the 42nd year that he did not want to see it on the it project and, in principle , his suicide was not a fear of punishment, as you understand and the fact that he simply did not accept reality, but until march

, april, 1945, he did everything possible for the victory of the reef, everything is possible and impossible, and by the way, that is why he blocked all attempts at a peaceful resolution of the conflict that had even begun appear in his immediate circle, we will deal with exactly the same person with exactly the same efforts. i am sure that until the day that vladimir putin remains in the position of the president of the russian federation, the war will continue in one form or another and there will not even be a hint of any agreements i think that i already said this before the war, there is only one way to end the war, there are two ways victory or capitulation is full of no opportunities to agree in the middle, which we have been told about

for quite a long time does not exist in nature well, that's all you can't do anything about this choice, you'll have to live with it, when putin went to belarus, there are opinions that he put nuclear weapons there, and when lukashenko goes with his army, can he use nuclear weapons? to be honest, i don't really trust information that i don't have against logical confirmations and to be honest, it does n't matter where the russian nuclear weapons are from anywhere they are located in belarus or russia can they be used as a tactical nuclear weapon first of all we have no confirmation with you that russia can to use nuclear weapons, we know for sure that belarus cannot do this on its own. lukashenko, unlike putin, does not have a nuclear suitcase, the only person who can use

the services of nuclear weapons or for e-e to fix the capabilities of the nuclear triad is the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, as far as he is ready you and i do not know how to do this, and no one does. what we see is that putin began to speak quite cautiously about the use of nuclear weapons after realizing that these actions could lead to a forceful response from the west and that they are not the chinese people are satisfied with the republic, however, as far as i can agree with the idea of ​​using nuclear weapons as a reality, i would not be in a hurry and in this situation, we should be quite careful with er-e evaluations of such things, the ukrainian language was among the most popular to learn in the world and when you spoke ukrainian have you always been

ukrainian-speaking? how do you feel about those ukrainians who know ukrainian well and continue to speak the language of the aggressor because they still consider ukrainian to be somehow different? i can't say what happened. there was a moment when i spoke ukrainian. i don't really understand people who generally consider any language to be something not like ukrainian. i think that knowledge of any language is wealth , and refusing to know any language is this is not a shot in the head but i believe that a person should realize which language is worthy for him i always said that your native language is not where you started talking to when you were born this is the russian people i am not russian i do not think so i think that the native language is the family language that's why i never said that the russian language is

my native language, although i know it since birth, they can't call the ukrainian language my native language. i believe that my native language is a spoken language that disappeared before my eyes, i don't speak this language, i can write i learned to read it, but i was never going to give it up because i knew that it was the language of the people who lived on the territory of central europe for 100 years, which actually disappeared as speakers of this language during the holocaust and cook. these are the languages ​​that i i consider languages ​​of my own kind. if i were to say the state of israel used to speak and this is logical for ukrainians who do not speak the family language of their parents and grandparents, the language

of their kind. you are there, i still continue to believe that if any part of ukraine remains russian-speaking, this part of ukraine will sooner or later become part of russia, maybe not the russia we know. not putin's russia, but democratic russia that this part of ukraine will always be a part of the russian civilized world and as soon as this civilized world changes for the better , it will immediately become a magnet for this part of ukrainian literature and this part of the ukrainian territory will try to do everything to russify the other ukrainian-speaking part, but i hope that this will not happen this triad, a strong army, its own language on the entire territory of ukraine from uzhhorod to yalta, and its own church will be the dear decree that will eventually allow us to get rid of the deception from the deception of the pro-russian forces what kind of rule here will allow

us to overcome the populist tendencies that have been suicidal for ukrainians for many years, will allow us to build a civilized democratic state. it may be less rich in europe, but a state that will be a refuge for ukrainians , we talked about it with ms. libanova. i think this is an important conclusion. thank you, friends, now i will pass the floor to my colleague, and you are not melnyk , who will present you the news of this hour. thank you for a few moments about the most important news , be with us , your own or others were afraid of such a principle according to the information of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine, on january 5 near the village of chistopilya in the kherson region, the guards are observed in the russian army