sang the national anthem and so it is so shameful to be sold because he works in zenith and receives money there eh with honor i play football myself and in the house of football where was his photo we took it i understood your point thank you very much yevhen nyshchuk people's artist of ukraine minister of culture ukraine, 14-16-19 years old, thank you very much for this, everything svoboda life will be back on the air tomorrow, and in the meantime, subscribe to the pages of radio svoboda on the internet, cinema, television, sports, music, education, free people have a

choice, choose what you want on megogo, the war is going on and not only for territory, it is also a war for minds. russia is throwing millions of petrodollars to turn ukrainians into little russians. ukraine will become russia. analysis and analysis of information about ukraine by russian propagandists. specific facts and methods by which hostile propaganda turns people into obedient zombies. russians in the information war chronicle project with olga len tuesday thursday at 11:40 a.m. and friday at 1:00 p.m. on espresso tv channel weltrum battery stations are designed specifically for military needs, airtight, shock-proof , work in difficult weather conditions, these stations

will significantly increase the combat capability of our defenders, the espresso tv channel, together with the forpot tua charity fund, launched a new fundraiser for the purchase of powerful portable battery stations with solar panels for our soldiers, we will transfer the first five stations to the 406th separate artillery brigade named after general oleksiy almazov join the gathering let's bring victory together glory to ukraine usual time usual tv channel usual program - this is the world during the war and i the presenter of this program, yuriy fizar. since this year we are going out for the first time, that's why i congratulate you all on the new year, and christ was born for everyone. who celebrates the birth of the savior right now, and peace to all of us . quick, quick and full victories. well,

today there is a lot to talk about. with my guests but before introducing the first guest and already starting to talk with her about what i have planned, i want to remind you of what i always remind at the beginning of the program, please whoever watches us on youtube, please show us on two channels one common e the channel of the espresso tv channel, please like our program there, but i am also a special channel for the world during the war, and there also like it and most importantly, write something , because it is important for us to know what you think about what i discuss with our guests, and of course, put your favorites do not like, although i really hope that you will like this program and write, we will be very grateful to you, and one more thing that i always remind about at the beginning of the program is that recently on our channel, a separate channel of our

of the world at war program, we ask you a question to which we want to receive your answer. so today, by the way, there are already 130 votes. thank you for these votes. today i asked you the following question: why did europe actively help ukraine in confident of ukraine's victory? 50% is afraid 43% have already answered for their own future. well, your option is seven percent. you can look at it on the page of our program, but only after it is completed. well, you will see what different opinions there can be. vote, like or dislike, although it is better to like. well, let's start the program. i am ready to introduce my first guest, who joined me on skype in order to talk about her about something far from ukraine, but very important for all of us, about china, and this is alina hrytsenko, the main consultant

national institute of strategic studies ms. alina congratulations and thank you very much for joining the program good day good day thank you ms. alina well, as i already said, china is far away, but for some reason it is for us ukrainians, now is the time of the russian war with us, it is kind of bleak, well, many people at least follow what is happening in our relations with china, in the relations of russia with china, and ultimately in the relations between the heavens and the united states of america , because from them we ask how much i understand that a lot can depend on the war that russia is waging against us, so on each other. let's start with the relations between russia and china in these relations . everyone talked to putin the other day, and they both almost convinced each other that it is important, very important, to develop bilateral cooperation, that is, who is a

friend to whom in these relations, no one is there, i am no one's friend, the first thing you need to understand is that a- and china has a rather pragmatic, to some extent cynical interest in relation to the russian federation. let's say, what is conditioned by it, it is possible to outline three main factors. what this interest is conditioned by, first of all, it is an ideological factor, that is, china, which is in a confrontation with the west in a confrontation with the united states of america is the primary ideological confrontation in fact has no allies in this confrontation, in contrast to the west, which is more or less consolidated and the united states of america, canada, great britain , the european union. in this confrontation, and the russian federation, which considers the west to be its main ideological rival, in fact an enemy, is of course important for china in the framework of supporting bilateral relations and

the second factor for china, which is an important resource, is that the russian federation currently offers the supply of energy carriers, for example, at a very interesting and attractive discount, and the chinese are using the chinese very successfully . resources as long as it is possible and the third factor is a security factor russia and china have a long border it is more than 4,000 e-e 4,000 km plus on the border with russia there is a sensitive region and the gursky family is located there an autonomous region, therefore it is important for china that the security situation on the border remains stable. that is, china has only such a pragmatic interest and is trying to keep russia at a short notice. they said that

china is looking for an ally, an ally or a partner in russia, or whether to leave. and that is possible. china is looking for support from russia in its ideological confrontation with the western powers, of course , see during the conversation that i have already mentioned which took place a week before the new year, er, with putin, everyone said that in relation to the russian war in ukraine, although he did not say that it was a russian war, he called it a conflict in ukraine, so he said that beijing would be objective and biased, so explain please, from the side of beijing, we constantly hear such ambiguous statements, china condemns it, it doesn't condemn it, but it doesn't say that it shouldn't be done, china says that russia has the right to defend its own interests, and that's what it is. -pin says about some objectivity and impartiality in the war in ukraine, what could he mean by these two words, and first of all, it is meant that china

will not change its position eh well, of course, china's position regarding the russian-ukrainian war is quite ambiguous, but from beijing's point of view, this position is actually neutral, and i mean that china will not change this position , that china's support for russia from china will remain at the level of rhetoric, yes, at the level of support there in the media, for example, but it will not transfer to the udder, for example material and technical, i.e. china well, in fact, it is very correct that china is in russia he says that well, we understand you, we understand the reasons for the conflict and this is nato, they are bad, they allegedly promised you not to expand here, they are expanding, but on the international stage in the un, for example, they say that they are a western partner that well, yes, yes, we understand everything here, the violation of the norms of international law, the violation of territorial integrity. and we always advocate for the sovereignty and preservation of territorial integrity of all states, a-a

, for the implementation of the charter, or, for example, yes but china's position will remain unchanged and that's exactly what is meant by objectivity and impartiality, that is, china will continue to call for compliance with the norms of international law, compliance with the integrity and sovereignty of all un states, mrs. alina, see well, somewhere well, about a month before the new in 2018, information appeared on the internet that from russia to heaven, i don't know, well , at least 10 il-76 transport planes flew and arrived. do you have any information about what they imported, and here it is for example, you say that china will support russia exclusively in certain ideological ways. what could they have done, or was it some sort of material support? i think it is unlikely that china will provide material and technical support, since it will definitely receive

star sanctions from western countries and the logistical and technical support of the russian federation for the supply of weapons, this is the red line that china is unlikely to be able to cross because it clearly receives and can receive a return. for example, here the evangelical at the same time, china continues to maintain military-military-technical cooperation with the russian federation, for example, in december they conducted naval exercises, this is again aimed at keeping russia in the focus of its attention and maintaining the favor of the russian leadership and pretending that russia can hope and to rely on china as a partner, well, such a manipulator is enough. i think such an effective manipulator, sit down and see. during this conversation , putin invited the last question about her, and it is so pathetic invited all jinpin to moscow. do you think everyone will come? well, of course, nothing can be ruled out. however, this scenario seems very, very unlikely to me. i will believe it more if the russian president visits

beijing, but we must also take into account trends , for example. last year, it was concluded that the leaders and chinese leaders, in particular, mostly uh, students themselves visited multilateral summits, while bilateral contacts were limited. plus, at the moment, there is a new outbreak of the coronavirus in china, and sisinping is a person who he is very careful and cautious about his health in order to fulfill his duties and state duties, so he can under the condition that we have the coronavirus again here, he can limit eye contact and most likely he will not fly to moscow well, this is possible. i think that january i am trying to manipulate putin and putin is somehow being manipulated. well, okay, well, can ms. alina in russian-chinese relations in the future ? on ukraine well, the fact that directly by russia is already

negative for ukraine, but negative is meant, for example, the supply of material and technical assistance to russia by china, as i already said, it is unlikely that in some er, relations between russia and china can to say quite stable, therefore, no drastic changes are expected in the short to medium term. well, this is for us, i think that this is for us. less is more good in september , even in september. published an article called the future russian-chinese conflict. well, it began with this sentence. i will quote it now . the president of china is probably looking at the russian defeat in ukraine and thinking about the quote. putin needs me, but i don't

need him. well, the defeat was meant just then. there was a situation in the kherson region, and here is such an article, is such a russian-chinese conflict even possible? well, at least in the long-term perspective, and does putin understand that you have repeatedly said that this is a manipulator siedenpin may drop him at some point. well, maybe he can drop uh, well, look at the defeat, look at the season, look at the defeat of the russian army. first of all, it should be noted that china is basically disappointed by the actions of the russian leadership, because they do not understand how it was possible to start in quotation marks specifically . military operation or any military company if you are not sure of its success for 100%. this is something that the chinese do not understand and this is what china is very disappointed in. and could there be a conflict that silpin could quit, as they say how can you say putin, the problem here is not, well, not in putin as such, it is very

important for china to preserve the existence of this regime , will it be headed by putin, will it be headed by his successor or someone else similar to putin, by and large, for the campaign, it will not work it is important for them to weaken the regime, it is important for russia to become dependent on china, and this is already happening, and every month the dependence is becoming greater and greater, and economic dependence is moving into the political dimension, but no no overthrow in no case, because in the case of deconstruction of the regime, in the event that some internal transformations begin in russia, there is a risk for china that western politicians of liberals may come to power. let's put it this way, we all know what russian liberals are. but i mean that people will come who will try to reformat russia's foreign policy and once again open another window to europe and restore contacts with the west for china to have a state in the rear that will be sympathetic to the west. this is

a very negative consequence of this is that any initiation of any conflict on the part of the chinese side is unlikely, and the russian federation is trying to do everything possible to maintain friendly and stable relations with china , therefore, a conflict for one reason or another in the short term seems unlikely, but you say that russia's dependence is growing from china and why is she guy because look at me personally and you are a person who deals with china professionally , can you explain it to me that's why that to me, a person who knows a lot of things, but everything from different fields, it seems that russia, er, lately, putin is somehow trying to bring china under him. for example, the power of siberia. he opens them and talks about the fact that oh , how much gas will go, plus oil products go there china is buying but how china, on the contrary , is trying to bring russia under its control. well

, what about gas, which is lost only in china. by the way, it goes to india in another asian country at a crazy discount, which is very profitable for asian countries, that's why they continue to maintain economic relations with china trade and economic relations with russia i apologize and buy russian energy resources, but the problem for russia is precisely that these resources are sold too cheaply and they actually have no alternative, that is, they are now reorienting their energy exports to asia and china in the first place and china in the short-term perspective can dictate its own conditions regarding further purchases and this plus the export of goods is just as well as this economic identification economic cooperation, it will eventually turn into political independence and russia will fall. let's say it geopolitically , it will become a vassal but a companion of the people's republic of china. did i understand correctly

that if in relations there is gas from europe for russia, it is a weapon, then in relations with china, gas is politics , so it is clear now let's talk a little about taiwan, a very important topic for us, the taiwan factor in ukrainian in chinese relations , what do you see as pros and cons in this, what do we need to achieve, why do we need to beware, that is, explain to me in particular and to our viewers, ah, here is one important thing in these relations, which i, which i frankly admit, i don’t quite understand. that is, we want china’s support . - and about the ukrainian position in the fact that what is happening now is to speak out more actively against the russian war in ukraine and we do not recognize china, but we are very taiwanese, but at the same time we very much support taiwan, please explain to me

why and what are the pros and cons of these ukrainian -chinese mutuals. well, let's face it, there are no obstacles to maintaining economic , trade and economic relations. this is done by many countries of the world. the same, the same china. i mean the people's republic of china, but it is important for us that this cooperation does not go to a more significant political choice, that is, when communication takes place at the level of parliamentarians, this is something that i absolutely accept, this is something that does not destabilize our relations with beijing, but if, for example, the ukrainian delegation in where the ministers will be visiting ivan, then this may already receive a negative response from the side, but why is this happening , some activists who consider china's position unacceptable, who see this position as undeniably supporting the russian federation, and consider china

as a destructive partner which does not bring any benefits or any positives for ukraine and that is why they are calling to refocus on taiwan, let's say, but the expediency of this should be calculated in my opinion. this is not exactly a constructive position for ukraine relations with taiwan can and must be maintained, taiwan is a powerful economy, it is a powerful investor that can help us in our post-war reconstruction of our country. but again, this communication with taiwan should be limited exclusively to economic and trade relations. do we have enough communication at the state level and calmly? this is a question of how our ani information ani diplomatic presence in china and not only in china turns out. this is basically our problem with asian states in general, our information and the diplomatic presence was not enough and

that is why we have a negative result. as a result of this, we see a lack of international support from the u.s. states of our country, this is meant in the russian-ukrainian war . that the initiative should come from ukraine and we must understand that china considers the russian-ukrainian war through the prism of its own confrontation and the west and its own national interests, this is first and second our excessive prioritization of the western vector of foreign policy actually led to this fact that in china and in other asian countries we are not considered as a full-fledged subject of international relations, we are considered as a de facto vassal state of the west and a de facto vassal of the united states of america, i.e. on e-e we are considered as a political state whose political leadership lacks the will to build and implement its own external dependent foreign

policy and its own national interests , again the reason for this was not enough informational and diplomatic presence on this very asian track, therefore, the initiative to increase one's own authority in asian countries should come . of course, from ukraine, but the potential for this is huge. it is very important that it will come and that somehow these will mutually develop. well, look as they can, let's now move on to sino-american relations, because there is a lot of talk about them again, because, well, in recent months, it seems to me that washington, in my subjective opinion, is so provoking the celestial by sending here in taiwan, the delegations are from here. of course , beijing reacts to this, reacts negatively

, sometimes even aggressively. sino-american relations should develop in the long term and how they can affect the situation in the region in particular. well, in general, in the world in general. well, how can it affect ukraine? it is all reflected in ukraine, well, it can be said that there are many scenarios according to which sino-american relations will develop, and it is difficult and premature to determine which of them will be the most likely. sino-american relations in the short term will maintain the same trend as we saw last year, that is, it is a gradual increase in confrontation, a gradual increase in tension to war, no one is ready for war, no one is ready, especially china, so talk about that, that is, determine what

exactly the trigger what exactly will be the trigger for the further development of china-us relations so far there may be premature improvement and improvement well of course that could be one of the possible scenarios especially since china currently has a new minister of foreign affairs what is americanism in its specialization? that is why it was such a positive signal that china is ready to improve relations between the united states and the united states, but most likely, the tendency towards a gradual increase in counter-nationalism will remain until a gradual increasing tension well, that's a shame, ms. alina. thank you for participating in today's program, but my last question will not be about china, but this question that we asked the viewers who watch us on youtube. how would you answer why europe was the last to help so actively ? i don't know so, for the last week, to actively help ukraine, that's in- we asked the audience, they gave the following

answers: confidence in ukraine's victory, fear for their own future, your option, that's how you would answer this question. and i would choose the first option, after all, is the certainty of the victory of ukraine, we are all sure of it ms. alina, thank you very much, alina hrytsenko, we talked with her about china, our relations with the celestial empire, the chief consultant of the national institute of strategic studies. well, before starting the second part of our conversation, already on i have a guest and i want to remind you that you can watch us not only on tv, but also on the internet, in particular on youtube, and on youtube, we are watched by quite a lot of people, and we asked you a question on youtube, er, why europe began to actively help ukraine three answers that already ms. alina said confident in the victory of ukraine 45% of those who voted fear for their own future 48%. well, your

option is 7%, you can see your option only after our broadcast ends. well, in total, 400 people have already voted. 441 people have voted . thank you for watching and thank you for voting yes. oleksandr khara, an expert on foreign affairs, is problematic for me to understand of the security policy of the center for defense strategies, mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you and thank you for joining. good day, yuriy, oleksandr . please tell me, answering this question, that for me personally, the transformation of europe is perhaps not the whole of europe , because the baltic countries have constantly expressed their support for us, not only in words but also in business, but the transformation of some european countries, which began during the past week

to actively give us e-weapons. how can you comment on this? well, you know, i'll start with the fact that there is such a guy on the network, your russophobia insufficient and it seems to me that despite the fact that we are definitely grateful for the help, first of all , to the united states for such a large package of help, definitely about such a historic decision again by the same germans and french . here, but definitely that this is not enough for us to confidently and quickly reduce losses to liberate the ukrainian territory and that is why there is a dilemma here to thank and say give me more actually it seems to me that there are several points here and i always focus on consciousness because it is the most inert such component and definitely that the germans left on the fact that the same mardyrs decided to transfer it to us. and this myth continued for several months when they said that they did

n't have them, then they promised them to someone and so on . outlined, and it seems to them that if they cross this line, then russia will press the red button, or somehow it will escalate to er-er, it means a war with ukraine, and we see that every time it happens that the russians do not are capable of doing anything, well, of course, we will say the nuclear issue in a separate file and close the file. but if we talk about escalation in general, what can they do more than target moderate cities with their ballistic and cruise missiles, we have already seen hundreds of them, they can do it but of course they have a limited recovery resource, and the most important thing is that they are so outdated that she needs time to program these missiles, so there can be no escalation on the ground. well, we see that they have been

heroically taking bakhmut for several months there i don’t know, one house at a time and is actually trampling on the spot, losing great strength , that is, they cannot escalate to the west, it is allowed, they are unable to do anything so serious now, since all the forces are chained here in ukraine, and by the way, those who support us the most, they understand this, so it seems to me this is primarily the overcoming of internal limitations in the heads of the strategists of the advisors, primarily the chancellor of germany, and that advisor . russian federation after the war, he is still the same person who advises the same, for example, there is the same adviser in washington who, from the very beginning, did not really believe in the system capability of the ukrainian armed forces on the system, and then he was mistaken that ukraine would be capable as a state because of course,

this war is the state, it is society, it is the economy, not only the defense forces, defense, and it has proven that it is possible and we are taking , liberating territories, and we have more, let's say, the rivet works better even with a smaller, smaller number of people and weapons. certain, but still there are limitations limitations now the main thing definitely these are tanks and there are very encouraging signals from poland and other countries that if there is such a general european coalition, then germany, well , again, the last outpost of germany will collapse, fall and they will start supplying us those tanks that we need in order to liberate our territory, well, actually, i think the most important thing is the belief in the victory of ukraine, it's just a shame. is there any point in crossing this line ? with acceptance