in the fact that ukraine asked the european union to introduce sanctions against belarus in the latest package of anti-russian sanctions, it is not a matter of faith, it is not a matter of faith, i understand that such a scenario could be because it has the logic of not provoking lukashenka , i admit that such conversations could be held because we once organized public communication with zelenskyi's administration, so there was always the argument that we are not ready yet, we do not want to provoke minsk, and we understood that. and we never insisted on this, but unofficially, not publicly, this communication is always supported and we do many projects together in the information space through propagandists in the first place and support of volunteers well, but uh, i think that we need to act consistently and when we say that lukashenka is not a legitimate dictator, that he is

self-appointed, he only seized power and became a puppet by putin, it is necessary that these veloi outside the statement become concrete actions and a kind of reaction in the form of sanctions against lukashenka, his entourage, the entire vpk, which feeds him, would be really, really strong it is a political step, but also a signal to belarusians that we are fighting together and fighting for unity. in your opinion, to what extent can such a point of view be a failure of ukrainian foreign policy? we are talking about this, mr. franik. it seems to me that since 1994, since 1994 , it seems that lukashenko is the guarantor of ukrainian security. i hope that after the 22nd year there is no more left. he responded to the naivety that was there before that he is the guarantor of belarusian security or ukrainian security. i know what the people are there were also some parties, primarily pro-russian

parties in the ukrainian council, they portrayed lukashenko like that. but i think that all myths and stereotypes have been destroyed and lukashenko will never be perceived by ukrainians as a partner in general, so you just need to understand and state that he is an enemy of ukraine and put an end to this, yes and no, leave some bridges to return to business , i think that this will be a good signal for the belarusians, but it is also in the interests of ukraine to do everything that lukashenka never did again it was this will be the best guarantee of security for ukraine when belarus is in a democratic state and will move to europe. tell me what level of autonomy lukashenka has in your opinion today. how do you imagine it? you can only express your personal observations here because i think that he will try to pretend to be an independent sovereign

, he and putin have agreed to play this game that uh come on you will pretend that you are pressuring me i resist because it is much better to have a puppet vassal who looks like a completely independent leader, it is beneficial for russia to bypass sanctions, to have such a better position at international forums such as the un , well, when nissan putin always speaks, then lukashenko is supported by the delegation. until this moment, but no significant political or international or even military decision is taken without consultation with putin, and now lukashenko is sometimes more pro-russian than some russians speakers and propagandists sometimes it seems after the dkb summit that this eurasian union

when they meet that lukashenka was hired as putin's press secretary and when even the russian propaganda is silent then lukashenka gives an interview saying what putin really wanted to say there, what is putin's position and in principle you discover the situation for yourself when miri eh, i said the weakening of russian capabilities will intensify, lukashenka's attempt to find some common ground measures , he has already done this many times, have we already passed this station we will be one hundred percent to try to try it earlier, macy’s contacts at the minister’s event helped him a lot. but now there is no new one who is also close to macey’s house, er, the diplomat oliynyk, and they are now trying to leave some contacts there, and how many diplomatic contacts no one publicly has with them does not want to have them at the level of the special services. perhaps

the communication in the western states is supported and they will try to achieve the lifting of sanctions. the main goal is that there are no sanctions on the state enterprise, not on the potash fertilizer, all this that gives money feeding the submissive regime and so there will be a moment when russia will retreat from ukraine and win lukashenko will scream that he was ukrainian all this time and opposed putin, so love me as i am and he has already done this historically in the 14th year playing himself as a peacemaker now 22 in the 20th year, this did not work out , but as soon as the balance of forces changes, he will try to find a loophole for himself to get away from responsibility. latvia is a miracle. estonia understands everything perfectly. the further to the west, the less understanding there is of

belarus, what is russian, russian revanchism , and why it is necessary to help ukraine, that this help is in their interests. therefore, it is necessary to explain that you cannot negotiate with a dictator, you cannot re-educate a dictator, that even when it seems to you that it is as if he is cornered. now we are here and there is such a reality of the police. people with whom we even communicate in the west, they are now thinking how they will beat lukashenka, here he will be offered something lukashenko's stage is such a crypto er pro-western this is a mistake lukashenka and a carrot a carrot from her and he will bite off his hand yes and er all the attempts that were made before in these he had a daughter and not with lukashenka we and the smoker met the austrian chancellor who was once supposed to be by the hands of a friend of lukashenka, but then when lukashenko recast the director of a1 of the austrian company, the director of the raiffeisen bank of the austrian company, all these illusions

dissipated. but with each new politician who comes to power in a european state, lukashenko will quickly try to build contact and divorce as a fool, but lukashenko and the russian managers were arrested something interesting and also how calmly absent-minded it looked through the fingers eh he arrested and the line of those who are close to putin and it was in other conditions there, including to show his teeth to show his moisture, he also detained many russian citizens in the 20th year , including those who protested. well, those who did not protest were also caught picking up the example of sofya sapeh, who was detained on the plane with protasevich, there at the beginning a conversation that russia can help to free him, but then putin received that message, so no, we will not interfere. let lukashenko deal with his enemies on his

own. it's interesting that they used to be detained for those connected with alternative and groups there or with separate ones. towers of the kremlin , maybe it was also in the interests of putin himself and his entourage at the moment, but in order to go against putin, there was never an open confrontation. he was always released very quickly, and he returned to those to those, well, no not reception unpleasant but forced love from moscow and tell me, please. what is the current level of legitimacy of belarusian opposition structures from the point of view of the western world. how are you perceived today? it's real here, because we remember that in the 20th year there was a competition for legitimacy, that's how the situation looks now stabilized when tykhanov created a joint transitional cabinet, which included not all, but most groups

of belarusian political forces. azarov, who was an official from lukashenka's structures, representatives of the civil society joined, and now there is such a wide range of people gathered around tykhanovskaya, and now it seems that no one so openly undermines svitlana tykhanovskaya's picketing in belarus. and in the west, she is considered as president lek, we often hear this as a person, a person who was elected by the president but did not take office and very often de facto is called that. well, every international visitor is given a protocol as a head of state even when he is not there de jure recognition they are still meeting her there with all these presidential rituals tomorrow . she is visiting vadaus and will

perform twice on the main stage, also together with the president of poland, lithuania, north macedonia and other countries, and it is interesting that this is the first time in 30 years since in 1992, when he came from shushkevich, for the first time a representative of belarus will be at this forum, this is also an element of legitimacy and it also gives energy to the belarusians inside the country who are fighting. they see that belarus has not been forgotten. on the one hand, the ukrainian government does not create such a protocol for the belarusian opposition, on the other hand, there is such a negative perception of the belarusian state that lukashenka is angry because as a state that is an accomplice in crimes against ukraine, she did not understand how to get out of this dilemma , and i also do not have an answer to how to get out. from this situation because we understand very well this ukrainian pain that the belarusian state has given and of course the belarusians are also partly responsible for the fact that lukashenka

has been in power for 30 years and the left in the 20th year, this disorder is the division between the regime and its clique and belarusian society. it was very clearly conducted and it seemed to us that there is also an understanding in ukrainian society that lukashenko is a puppet and does not represent anyone in belarus, but we see that this is not quite the case and that is why we need to work. and we see that belarusian volunteers are their own struggle e- it shows that not all belarusians like lukashenko and the volunteers who collect millions of dollars in aid to ukraine are doing it to fix it, to show ukrainians that we are not a regime that we want and see as our own with free a country with a united europe and we consider russia to be our common enemy, which will never recognize and will never allow our people to

develop as an independent state. maybe by joint actions , because lukashenko is very afraid of volunteers. i think that this is his main nightmare with which he wakes up . divisions of the militia to fight volunteers with agents and extremists. they train in the fields how to stop subversive groups, but when he says subversive group, we all understand that the conversation is about belarusian volunteers . who die in the war , songs are dedicated to them , films are made about them, and they, well, they cannot be a political subject today, because

most of them are military units and fight in ukraine there are hot spots and participate in the liberation of the occupied territories, but in the future it is possible that they will become very important political participants. i am sure they will be very popular in belarus and will take part in the integration of a new state or parliament . the problem with the recruitment of new volunteers and the search for them is because there is a problem there and their provision, and we tried, and i have several groups of volunteers in ukraine, there is a regiment of the linovsk battalion, a pen the litvin battalion is the second international legion where the belarusians are also fighting, and now we wouldn't like the volunteers to coordinate better among themselves, so you could get more support, and help them, how many volunteer battalions were created in general? it's spontaneous and

to what extent it can be coordinated, i don’t know, i’m an expert in military construction, and i understand that they belong to different units of the ukrainian armed forces, because part of the volunteers are under the military and part are under the gurom and budanov, and that is why they carry out various tasks. from a military point of view, i don't think that we need to coordinate there, but from a political point of view, it would be better to have a council of belarusian volunteers of volunteer groups in ukraine, which would declare exactly the same their fish, their interests, so that their voice could be heard. well , what is more effective to help them? thank you , mr. franeka, pranyk, a belarusian shepherd , a public figure, an adviser. in the last few minutes that remain, we will answer your questions against the background of

yesterday's terrible tragedy in the dnipro ukraine will receive many words of sympathy from western countries but can you now hope that the west will speed up its decision on the transfer of military equipment of modern weapons of ukraine in the shortest possible time, because we observe that the west is always waiting for some kind of tragedy to be able to hand over another batch of weapons instead of providing everything at once and ending the war once and not always i think it's about the end of the war once and for all. i think we talked about the end of the war together on this broadcast. it's always good to wait. there are still many trials ahead. again, if the war really ends , you can expect that ukraine will accelerate its accession to nato. in this case, we will be guaranteed two twins until the moment russia tries to start a conflict with nato , that is, we will have some kind of peaceful time that can turn into such a global war

compared to which everything that you and i are going through now will be children's toys, this too the third world war is not a phrase. this is a forecast that can happen if the putin regime is not defeated, therefore it is really very important to defeat it, but the west looks at it absolutely realistically, it perfectly understands that a quick defeat of the putin regime can lead to the use of russia weapon of mass impression. and no one in the west knows yet how realistic it is to react. so far, russia has managed to intimidate and intimidate precisely because the west can respond by force to the use of russia's nuclear weapons, however, we do not see any facts that indicate that these statements of politicians are confirmed by any actions, so we will have to be aware of something. the pace of the supply of weapons will be such as to prevent excessive escalation and there

were many situations like the one in the dnipro. during this war, there will be there is still a lot because you and i are only at the beginning of the events, we also need to realize that not even a year has passed, we are talking about a long-term war that has not yet happened, who knows when it will end, but it is very important that the russian capabilities were limited during this war because what valeriy chalyi said today is absolutely logical that these are illusory ideas of russia that it will have enough resources for such a long-term war, so we need to accustom russia to realism well , then we will at least manage to shorten this war by a few years for which putin is counting , do you think that in the future china can become a threat to the whole world as russia is now ? russia is not a threat to the whole world. china can become one. russia is a local

threat. russia's ambitions are related to the restoration of its territorial e-e possessions in in the past, china gravitates towards economic control over a large part of the world. it is not even worth comparing. china has already become this threat. the further development of events is not encouraging because sooner or later civilized education will have to enter into a confrontation. i keep saying that we are only at the beginning of a historical period that can to outline the confrontation between market democracies and market dictatorships is always a much more violent confrontation between the confrontation between market democracies and planned dictatorships because plans from dictatorship morning democracies are in different worlds and can find ways to co-exist even against the background of local confrontations it was during the cold war

and market democracies market dictatorships they are a threat to each other rather even democracy to dictatorship because market democracies show people living in in the conditions of market dictatorships, an alternative in the conditions of a fairly transparent world, so that in principle it is obvious that we will have to go through a lot of unpleasant events. i read all these american statements even today generals who are no longer connected with ukraine, but with the chinese and ivanov and here is a wonderful statement, let's say generals david dabtov regarding exercises in the southern e-e indo-pacific region , that the united states should arm taiwan with a sufficient number of missiles to destroy shanghai in the event of an attack by china the prime minister of japan

was on his way after a visit to washington and says that the situation around ukraine may repeat itself in the east. today, ukraine is east asia. tomorrow, the scale will be much larger, only the victims will be much larger . the amount of destruction is much greater the consequences for the sacred economy fatal to all this we are getting close to avoid it almost impossible to go through all this i have been saying all along the first decade of the 21st century is a time of confrontation between democracies dictatorships the world will never be the same by 2022 the firing of the starting gun has already sounded and in the future there will be about 30-40 years of such a turbulent life and somewhere by 2050 democracy will either win the dictatorship or there will be a conflict with the use of nuclear weapons and human civilization has disappeared, in principle

, there will be nothing terrible, one way or another, but in principle somewhere i will give you 70% to 30 for the victory of democracy - this is absolutely logical . that contributed to the beginning of more decisive steps, there is always hope for this, it seems to me, i have already said several times that putin will realize that the situation is absolutely beyond resolution, that it is necessary to stop, that the situation is long-term the war is exhausting russia itself, that the west is not going to stop providing ukraine with weapons. putin has no chance of winning. but putin draws exactly the opposite conclusions. the west simply does not understand the west. the

more the west helps ukraine, the greater putin’s determination to destroy this entire world is dear to him. a fanatic, and politicians can never calculate the logic of a fanatic, so gradually, as it goes, the west raises the stakes all the time so that putin eventually stops, he will not stop , he will collapse, this is a possible option, but stop, he will not stop until the day that putin is in the chair of the president of the russian federation, he will do everything that depends on him and does not depend on him to destroy ukraine, he will at the same time enjoy the absolute support of the citizens of the russian federation, the rating will increase as the war continues, the state will be more and more more with totalitarianism, everything will be tightened more and more, but in this way, you just know this is what is called a thread, it will take off at some point, a huge leak of this power will begin, you know this too we will see a huge humanitarian

catastrophe, which is what we will witness again. and such a catastrophe, the scale of which even ukrainians cannot imagine if this faucet turns, the west does not really want it to turn, by the way. it wants the regime to simply stop. well, unfortunately, i think that the western efforts are equal zero from the point of view of stopping putin. good afternoon. many of us say that zelensky creates authoritarianism, collects various corruption schemes, and many other things. do you not think that authoritarianism can only be in countries where there is money, but in fact we do not have an economy and it is on the artificial respiration of western money after the war, investments and money will come in exchange for real reforms and not for this imitation that is now available, i also believe that no authoritarian regime can be formed with someone else's money you can't, you can only form an authoritarian regime with the money of an authoritarian country, that's how lukashenka forced his regime with the money of the russian federation, it's real, it's real

, if democracy gives you money, it's very difficult to form an authoritarian regime for them, why me in general, i think that analyzing the situation during the war, all these sociological surveys who do you trust, who do you trust, like those when the last shot is fired, the situation will change 180° immediately in 48 hours.

in order to interfere with oneself, one needs at least a solution, this is a question not in zelenskyi, this is a question in the marginal state of the post-soviet ukrainian society of ukraine, it is time for the ukrainians themselves to be the authors of their own defeats, they themselves brought their own state to the point of marginalization even before the war, not it is necessary to put all the responsibility here on the person specifically, because every ukrainian president is a mirror of ukrainian political marginality, but this will not be the case again, the russians can afford to build a little in the shadow , forget our own money, the oilmen extract oil and build the nazi regime here for

great happiness happiness there is no oil on which you can live like this, gas, there is nothing but incredible economic opportunities, fertile land, working people, an educated society, but all this can be used only under conditions democracy and the creation of a classical national state, a state that exists simply because it is a state of the ukrainian people and respect, of course , for national minorities, and such a state will be an organic part of the european union, nato, a large number of residents of this state will be very dissatisfied with it. but i repeat, this does not matter anymore, you greeks do you remember they even voted in the referendum, it seems to me that 90% did not want to pay debts to the european union, well, ukrainians also voted for something like that, i know you i assure you that there will be populist politicians who

will bring various scandals to the referendum and 90% of ukrainians will vote to implement it, and then the government will do the exact opposite. well, you will see all this, it will be so comical, but for this, before admiring this comedy, you need to win the war must be stopped, so let's not rush. i think that these are absolutely unrealistic things, and in this regard, i am absolutely sure that we are in a historical period that promises us real opportunities should not be underestimated , because during this historical period, ukrainians have demonstrated that they are a society capable of mobilization and support, this is very important , by the way, this is the first path to the state of creativity, the first step

. the ukrainian people somehow do not have enough energy for this, but they have enough energy to breathe life into the state itself, the state idea itself, in the need to protect this state idea, this it is very important because if you do not manage to breathe real people's life into the institution , you will build a state that will eventually also be able to build effective institutions, this is not the best and not the fastest time. so we wasted three decades in vain, this is the truth and only our uprisings in general, they allowed to save this state, because if they, i think ukraine would have long been a part of the russian federation or a union state, everything was already ready for this, everything except the left lie rehearsed from the rp from e-e you know all this very well, but

in the end, in the end, it is absolutely obvious that this great war proved to the world and to the ukrainians themselves the ability to preserve their own statehood, this is the most important thing, you understand, when you want to preserve your own statehood then an institution appears, then an understanding of how to build these institutions appears, then the ability to partner with other countries appears. and when you absolutely do not need this state what is the difference? what is the difference? do you remember the two main sentences of the ukrainian people in recent years? time is responsible for all of us, but the main events will begin. the main events

will begin after the end of hostilities. i thank you for being with us, dear friends . eva milnykh is ready to rearrange the main news of her hour for you. this day, please. thank you for the situation in the dnipro and what is happening in kherson. details in a few moments, stay with us. already 30 people were killed by a russian rocket in the dnipro, one of them a child. 75 residents of high-rise buildings were injured . 30 of them are in the hospital, 12 are in a serious condition , the adviser to the head of ova nataliya babachenko told the telethon about it, the search operation has been going on for more than a day, more than 550 rescuers have been involved