rammstein oleksandr khara, an expert on foreign security policy at the center for defense strategies, we talked about the moods in europe and european societies, how these moods can affect aid to ukraine, thank you very much. in ukraine and the world, be sure to subscribe to radio svoboda pages on social networks instagram telegram facebook twitter viber and also to two youtube channels radio svoboda and radio svoboda ukraine svoboda life will return in air tomorrow cinema television sports music education free people have a choice choose what you want on megogo i am iryna koval mother wife

host of the espresso tv channel and i am also a volunteer our military at the front need a lot of things every day and that is why part of my life today - this is helping the armed forces of ukraine and i am very grateful to my colleagues for supporting me. this war found me at home in irpen. the alarming suitcase was packed, but that did not reduce the excitement. explosions are burning every minute . the gostomel airfield is on fire. russian fighter jets. in my window is a cold basement, then an exit under shelling from irpen, a month of abandonment by my relatives , and eventually i ended up in lviv. i returned to the airwaves and started volunteering together with my colleagues. helping our military is now an integral

part of life. to the front, we all cut the fruits together, we clean the berries, we whip everything and pack it is always very happy to think that in a few days this tea will warm the ukrainian soldiers. each of you can even help a small contribution to the support of the army saves the lives of our soldiers and brings our victory closer. greetings, dear viewers, i am vasyl zimi's world view project on the espresso tv channel. for the next 45 minutes, i will be with you and we will talk about such a topic, you know, i thought i would discuss such a thing well, of course, here as that's what they say, the war itself gave us a story that is worth remembering, that is worth discussing in detail in order to understand why it is what it is, why it happened, what was most important and how to make the future that we all create today

with our own hands it did not become the one that we would miss and for which we felt sorry for, i want to talk about the traitors of ukraine as the last hope of russia, you know, betrayal quite often in ukraine played an important role in the confrontation with the enemy, let's remember, let's say, colonel nose, which for rough money, for a certain position, for certain possessions in the russian empire, opened a secret passage to the enemy in the city of the hetman's city, the hetman's capital of mazepa, neabaturin in baturin was cut out when all the inhabitants were cut out, although at the same time, if the colonel nose had not committed this treason and did not lead the enemy into the city through a secret secret passage, then in principle menshikov and this guard, which stood under baturin, did not have much time left. secondly, the

troops of mazepa and charles the 12th were already approaching the city. and in principle, there was no time left in minsk, but the betrayal of colonel nosa actually decided tragically decided the fate of the entire city of baturyn, let's remember kochubey, let's remember those let's say traitors who may not have led to the military defeat of russia but led to other things well, let's say the rector of the kyiv-mohyla academy feofan prokopovich who wrote his eulogy for the victory of peter the first near poltava peter invited him to st. petersburg where he actually became his mentor and the creator of the concept of all i let me remind you that feofan prokopovich well, he had moldavian blood and ukrainian blood, but it was he who came up with this name, which russians are proud of today, the name russia before that it was muscovy, the muscovite kingdom, well actually feofan prokopovich the greek word russia, because in greek rus is russia, he said let's call ourselves russia and in fact called this he worked actively for peter the first and a large number of ukrainian nobles also worked for the polish kingdom on the river pospolit, when let's say

ukraine resisted and fought with the king's troops and worked to the russian empire, when ukraine forgave the russian empire, let's remember, well, bryukhovetsky, let's remember many other people who changed history in one way or another with their betrayal ukraine, and when the enemy actually no longer existed , there was no opportunity to somehow break ukraine, there was always a traitor in one or another issue. well, let's say even hetman ivan vyhovsky, who inflicted a terrible crushing defeat on the russian army of prince trubetsky near konoto in 1669, effectively destroying the flower of the russian army well, after that ivan vyhovskyi was simply betrayed and given to the poles, they executed him, again, traitors were always there, they were always behind their backs, they were ready to betray money treason for the sake of some wealth for the sake of revenge for the sake of the estates just to let the ruins of ukraine not be the hetman to defend with a mace on the ruins ukraine is burning dead bodies lie smoke

stench everything is destroyed but he is the hetman he betrayed and he is the hetman you know i even have such a joke in ukraine very a joke in ukraine very so characteristic that one ukrainian partisan - two ukrainians partisan unit three ukrainians partisan unit with a traitor we have to fight with this we have to do something well, i will add to our conversation the guests with whom we let's discuss this question now we have andrii ruka, candidate of historical sciences associate professor of the taras shevchenko national university of kyiv and member of the latvian academy of sciences director of the institute for the study of the holocaust in eastern europe e-e p andrii, i congratulate you, i know you very well here, somewhere possible and mistakes and very superficially mentioned traitors in ukrainian history. i want you to do it professionally as historians. let 's start with the phenomenon of betrayal and why betrayal is quite common in ukrainian history to a greater or lesser extent determined certain events

that could have followed a different scenario if the traitor had not been found, and then we will talk about why russia is so actively using the phenomenon of betrayal in ukrainian politics and in ukrainian society in general, please well, first of all, i want to say that it is sufficiently professional and sufficiently deep but at the same time, they outlined the main positions in dotted lines, let’s say so, er, of the biggest notable betrayals in the ukrainian history of the 17th and 18th centuries. national mentality or a characteristic feature of our history, similar cases have occurred in the history of other european peoples of european states and in general in the history of the world. therefore, it is rather a feature of human

psychology . and to rule over a mountain of uh, let's let it be, let's go over a mountain of corpses, but all the same , they were renting it is inherent in a person as such , it is not some such purely national characteristic, because if we talk about it, we we will speak badly about ourselves in this way and expose ourselves in a negative world to our help . sometimes these betrayals had an important meaning, a turning point, for example, there was the betrayal of ivan the nose during the siege, baturin's betrayal of vasyl isk ivan kochubey also had a certain significance, but thanks to mazepa, let's say, his influence on peter managed to prevent this treason, they were executed, but then it turned out that vasyl iskra

and ivan kochubey were right, they reported such truths to the tsar and their angle of heroes , martyrs, entertainers, it began to appear later after their liquidation, after their loss in the 20th century. unfortunately, betrayals also happened in our history, there were especially many during the national liberation struggles of 1917-1921, which was characteristic of, for example, the leaders of various insurgent units, who very often could change one side or another, switch to the side of there are reds on the side of the ukrainian government, and then it is possible to act independently a-a well, such treason is characteristic. i would cite, for example, the example of yuriy kotsyubynskyi, the son of mykhailo kotsyubynskyi, a well-known powerful ukrainian writer who combined his life with the russian

bolsheviks and helped them destroy to conquer ukraine in ukraine, he fought against an independent ukrainian state. well, then there was this one executed by the bolsheviks in the 37th year , that is, here are examples of such treason, which are already closer to ours time, this search for collaborators who will follow the instructions of moscow for the sake of achieving some political ambitions, let's say again, for the sake of some positions and influences, you can talk about it, it's true here, it's not always possible to clearly distinguish treason from the so-called feigned loyalty, because if we take, for example, the same post-war years, the 60s and 70s, we will look at the communist summer of the soviet union , even the same brezhne exit from ukraine , so can he be considered a traitor or was he a

typical product of the soviet system or did he betray the ukrainian cause, to which he never belonged, or was he the leader of moscow, simply of moscow politics, simply of origin from ukraine, that is, there are also such questions of a pure methodological, let's say, theoretical nature, you know, we, uh, well, talking about outstanding figures in the history of ukraine very often somehow shyly er, shamelessly, we keep quiet that many of our classics and literature, in particular, and cinema, and culture in general, they are actually so. you can say that they were traitors or collaborators. to explain from the point of view that people were trying to adapt to new realities, people were trying to save their lives, people were trying to somehow exist in this new new reality. well, let's say the writer and poet volodymyr

sosyura . troops in the 17th year, so then he came and well, he already remained a classic of soviet literature, let's say oleksandr dovzhenka, who worked again for the government of the ukrainian people's republic. then he was a classic of soviet literature and soviet cinema, although again after all, he later received quite strong persecution because of, let's say, his poem, because of his story , ukraine is on fire. well, let's also take from pavlo tychyna himself, who praised the ukrainian revolution, the ukrainian renaissance. do you remember the golden clamor over kyiv and there were 300 of their explosive societies, all these poems of his solar clarinets flew instead of octaves in chernihiv, where he was in fact the singer of the ukrainian revolution, and then he said he became the singer of the party, he leads, well, that is. and then again, say whether it’s treason or not treason, that is, but the same people who were, let’s say they were witnesses of communism, so to speak, and then they either lived their lives voluntarily because they were destroyed by the same soviet authorities with which they came to life, and here is my question. how to explain this, because now you know that during the war, there are also

many people who remain in the occupied territories, it is possible these are not stars of literature who are in politics or business, but these are also people who, due to the fact that there is fear for their lives, there is fear for their families, they also collaborate with the enemy in one way or another. after our victory, whenever it comes anyway you will have to ask yourself the question: what to do with the mass of many people who in one way or another collaborated with the enemy, school teachers, school directors, cultural workers, some workers of infrastructure facilities, how to call it treason, or to call it a struggle for life and an attempt to survive, this is a philosophical question but i would like you to say a few words, please. look , if you take the example of sausyura, the example is quite simple. if we look at it from a legal point of view, the ukrainian army of the republic, he was a young man at a joint youth school, he took an oath, yes, he really found himself in difficult conditions at the end of the 19th

year, when the school ceased to exist, this national team of young men was broken. he ended up in polonia, having switched to the side of the reds and further fighting in the ranks of the red army, working, let's say, on the ideological front, providing this moral and psychological work, and he thus betrayed his oath to the army of the ukrainian people's republic, for this we can him from the point of view of ukrainian law of the people's republic to be considered a traitor regarding tychyna volyn changed his ideological orientation then he was captured by the whirlwind of the ukrainian national revolution, but looking at the fact that the ukrainian revolution unfortunately lost the confrontation with the red bolsheviks, obviously in order to provide an opportunity for creativity, he was forced to glorify the realities

of soviet society, therefore, looking here as how we will look at it today in the 21st century at the events of the beginning of the 20th century, what criteria for measurement will we apply the same thing. by the way, with oleksandr dovzhenko, if he was a government official of the ukrainian people's republic and went over to the side of the enemy with whom war was officially declared. were officially in a state of war, having gone over to the side of the enemy, in this way he betrayed the oath that gave the service to the state , that is, from this point of view, it is all completely clear, but then becoming classics ukrainian cinema, ukrainian literature. you know this moment, if you went a little to the other side, and you, the monuments, i don't

know, the streets, the avenues, the streets, beautiful, real boards, collections of works on fairy tales , they appreciated this moment to a great extent. and if we will talk about today, our day. well, first of all, we tried the state and we all give the appropriate competent bodies an assessment. based on the ukrainian legislation regarding teachers, we have it clearly stated that cooperation, that is, pedagogical work in schools under the e-e occupation, and especially this propaganda of russian narratives, this is equated to collaboration, that is, a person has a choice, a person can not, in the end, leave this school and go to engage in sex as a private business in order to survive, or a person can, if there is such an opportunity, leave for the territory of ukraine that is not under russian occupation

, that is, i do not want to condemn, not justify, give any evaluations . provided the right to determine the degree of guilt and, accordingly, to determine the punishment according to this degree of execution and then there will be a little psychological level when people will treat those people who were in the occupation in one way or another. well, unfortunately, here everything will depend on the emotional state of the person other factors from factors, but i repeat once again, we are the rule of law, the court and lynch, or lynchings, this absolutely should not be the norm of our life, you know, in fact, treason is not a unique ukrainian phenomenon, let’s remember, let’s say, general vlasova well, the question is that he is a

russian general who, by the way, participated to a great extent in the fact that kyiv was managed to get kyiv at the first stage of the enemy and german attacks on the capital, he was stalin's favorite general, but it's just that he was thrown so many times alone and in fact, they threw themselves at will what well, he ended up in the ranks of the ranks of the nazis and created this russian liberation army there. that is, it is not, well, combatants in history, we know a lot of betrayals, well, caesar's betrayal, let's say he was with the ascetics 40 people killed him, in fact, the people with whom he came to this power, well, becoming a tyrant there in the roman empire, uh, treason, let's say , let's remember the trojan horse when and the people, the people all believed the soviet union and actually accepted this treason, er, even troy was defeated and there are many such stories of betrayals in history, but ukraine has its own such a separate story. and you know betrayal is the most painful and the worst when it occurs on some such the key

stage and russia very often uses this treason as its last hope, uh, i understand that now, you know, you can keep quiet with your fingers, look for this traitor, ukrainian society itself is cemented, ukrainian power is cemented, despite the differences there . well, probably the key, er, key stage of this war, you know, i am now comparing this winter war, which turns into a spring war into a summer war, with what happened under stalingrad in 42-43, in fact, because once again hitler's attack on the communists and the impossibility of it to take with this quick throw did not reduce the strength of the german army, they simply regrouped and went to the volga, so if it was possible to take a city on the volga themselves, then the war would follow a different scenario, that is, the key was the confrontation right there on the volga, and there then the soviet armies with the help of the indus, of course managed to hold back and reverse the course of these changes, i also think that now is also a turning point, the turning point of this war is right now this winter-spring campaign which

continues with very heavy battles in the donbas and here is the enemy now. it is very important for him to have a traitor. please tell me, eh, in ukraine, in ukrainian society, eh, the enemy, is it possible to find a traitor now, and in which places should we look for him, and can russia achieve its results if ukrainian society is monolithic and this traitor will not be found in a key position somewhere. well, it seems to me that a more effective search for traitors in ukrainian society would be until february 24, 2022, when these traitors held high positions, could hold high positions, and could hold positions at all. of the verkhovna rada to pursue policies to the detriment of the ukrainian state, the events of february 24, 2022 , to reveal the not hidden aggression of russia, and the terrible aggression by destruction and bombing with terrible victims, especially

among the civilian population, with huge victims among our military personnel, for many people, it opened their eyes to what is called such bold-red-headed today to find a person who will be open with common sense to call er-e to lay down arms, stop resistance and go over to the side of russia to me it seems to be another matter that our security service actively hunts down people who carry out this kind of destructive work in social networks on the internet in various networks, facebook, vkontakte, or some other such, of course. agents are minimal. agents of influence . such people receive prison terms and this well, this also affects the consciousness of those people

who may be wavering because, again, remember how tolerant ukrainians were society, how tolerant was the ukrainian state until february 22, when well, let's talk. the same nelya shtepu, yes, the mayor of sloviansk eventually came out. bandahirki came, well, and many other such cases, eh. well, today, our government and law enforcement agencies, in my opinion, demonstrate a sufficiently high efficiency, so looking for such a deaf person eh, it's ridiculous eh, but to look for something like this, i am, i am. i understand. what is the purpose of this program? why did this topic arise today because yesterday medvedchuk wrote or was written for him, he signed this article that was published in moscow, eh. well, there is a

different situation there, he was exchanged, exchanged for our military - for our prisoners works out works out all the money that was invested in him, he signed the text that was given to him and plus, medvedchuk never differed in any way in his patriotic pro-ukrainian position, another matter is that this appeal by medvedchuk will definitely not find any publicity and feedback among the ukrainian society, this war must end with our victory, and in the end, these sacrifices that ukraine and ukrainian society bring to the altar of victory should not be in vain, and any cooperation with the enemy today will actually be a betrayal of those people who died and died for this and almost a year of war, well , you brought up this topic, i continued this topic for the next guest.

the comments you provided andrii ruka was with us, it was very nice to host the broadcast and get to know mr. andrii candidate of historical sciences associate professor of taras shevchenko kyiv national university member of the latvian academy of sciences director of the institute for the study of the holocaust in eastern europe "necessarily" well, now and before i add viktor bondarenko to the conversation, experts of the political analysis storm, he and i continue this topic closer to the ukrainian political realities of today, not history and i i suggest you watch the story about ukrainian traitors in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, and then we will continue the conversation with mr. bondarenko . citizenship, everyone was accused of treason viktor medvedchuk shortly after the full-scale invasion, he tried to escape from ukraine, but

he was detained by law enforcement officers, russian politicians were later exchanged for 200 captured ukrainian defenders taras kozak fled to russia even before the start of the war, he is also accused of an attempt to loot national resources in crimea, another fugitive people's deputy andrii derkach, the security service suspects him of managing an intelligence network of the russian general staff who should was helping the occupiers seize ukraine, in the united states they believe that derkach was a russian agent for more than 10 years, but rynat kuzmin was not at all ashamed to publicly support a criminal invasion of our country according to the information of the investigation. kuzmin was vocal in his speeches and spread hostile propaganda through social networks. in addition, the parliament prematurely terminated the mandate of people's deputy andrii aksyonov, who previously wrote a statement of his own accord, according to the sbu. aksyonov has a russian passport. he is also involved in the pseudo-referendum on in donbass in 2014, he

wrote in the comments, we have comments on youtube, by the way, likes, spread us, e-e, on youtube, also on instagram, twitter, telegram on facebook espresso there is a website espresso krapka tv read join distribute comment it is important they write what do you say so well they write in russian what is the truth about yourself on the channel uh you start interpersonal who do you like who don't like during the war with russia you are drowning yourself no we we do not drown ourselves, not traitors, we must identify traitors, we must neutralize them as much as possible, not giving them the opportunity to influence anything, because in ukrainian history, as we just spoke with mr. rukas, betrayal very often played a tragic tragic role and we do not want it to treason played a tragic role in this, well , in fact, a key and decisive war of ukraine against russia, i would like to add to the conversation viktor bondarenko, an expert of the bureau of political analysis, viktor, i congratulate you. good health to you and that our citizens understand why this war is decisive and decisive, in fact, in the thousand-year confrontation with russia and zalissya, which today turned into a confrontation between

ukraine and russia. not yesterday. this is the pilot who commanded the squadron that, well, the plane from which the missile was launched over the dnieper. a russian journalist called him and started asking a question, and he thought that it was a ukrainian journalist and began to tell something, he said, ukraine is the only woman, yes , the only region in russia, you won't even be different regions, you will be a single region . they don't ask, they live in russia at all, questions, yes, me too, because we simply understood that for these russians, we are the only region of russia, so if we lose, there will be no ukraine, there will not even be a ukrainian soviet socialist republic it's just the south-western region of russia, that's why it 's important to talk here and it's important, i'm sorry, it's not important to minimize the influence of traitors. i still want to start with this article, eh, medvedchuk, because it actually played an important role in the fact

that we chose this topic, and now i want us to look at it boxes of this article and i will briefly quote what the ukrainian traitor said and now the first citizen of the russian federation and not a citizen of ukraine, viktor volodymyrovych medvedchuk, the ukrainian peace party is not respected either in europe or in the usa, this speaks eloquently about the fact that the majority american and european politicians do not want any peace in ukraine, but this does not mean at all that ukrainians do not want peace and the military triumvirate of zelensky is more important to them than their lives and destroyed houses, simply those who advocated for peace because of instructions from the west were lied to, intimidated and repressed by the ukrainian peace party simply did not fit into the western democracy here and the second piece eh and there showdowns, the world must hear such people, no matter how the west demands a monopoly on the truth , that is, medvedchuk says that there must be a peace party, it must be listened to, and he from russia is ready to bring us this peace. please tell me, who do you think wrote this

article? who is it aimed at? well , medvedchuk could write it himself. he still can write. well, he can write, and i think that these are his sincere thoughts, the only thing that is. well, they are decisively decisive. that's right. well , not from where, but the way to peace is simple, just enter and withdraw and withdraw troops but again, as that military man said, they consider not only donetsk luhansk crimea, but also kherson without kherson and zaporizhia without the zaporizhia region as their own, because someone has to agree with the fact that when we ask the question of whose crimea and in theirs, they have e- well, if someone says let's give crimea to ukraine, it's a crime under our russian laws. if someone says

let's give crimea to russia, it's a crime under ukrainian legislation, that is, the legislation of one country denies the transfer of crimea to one or another party in our country. there is no excuse for negotiations there, well , because we say that everything is with us. we will negotiate with you when we see the ruins of the kerch bridge and from there volodymyr oleksandrovich zelensky pluener to the kerch strait. that's why such articles are like this, well , it's a shaking of the air, because both societies now, and russian and ukrainian, are for the war to a victorious end, and therefore the only way out of the situation is whose army is the first to die and, accordingly, will convey its sentiments and society, or is society the first to die he loses the war e