was supposed to fly there, and the mig helicopter made an emergency landing, but for some reason it didn’t. let ’s say from what you saw in open sources, well, there is a video of how this helicopter flew over the breweries . to say about what you have seen and heard so far from open sources. yes, look at the information that has been available from open sources so far, unfortunately it does not allow to identify the specific cause of the pre-sidelation event, in the first place, in the second place, it is even practically impossible to identify the consequences that led to the downing of the helicopter, because in principle these were voiced by the security services of ukraine, the bases and scenarios that are currently being studied . each of them could be the cause, and in principle , those are even on the video. what happened there, it falls under any which scenario. that is, it can be both internal factors and external factors, the author,

it can be as a human factor, it can be as a technical side of the issue, it can also be the so-called nc or acts of illegal interference, that is, some external factors that could have led to this today, it's almost impossible. if we talk only about the video, like this map, an analysis of the remains of this helicopter must be carried out. a preliminary analysis of chemical examinations is required. it is necessary to decipher the black spots . some at least the main versions of the causes of the crash; in addition, if we are talking about the causes of the helicopter crash, they are not necessarily the exact causes of the crash, because the aviation investigation itself, which continues as as a rule, from a few months, and if it is the price of a disaster and victims, then they often last up to a year, sometimes even more, this is the task of such an investigation, in fact, to compile the entire chain of critical events that led to

a specific aviation tragedy, that is, uh, were all the necessary procedures followed for a long time before the departure of the helicopter, do all e-e systems pass on time the required maintenance or do all personnel undergo training? that is, it is a huge complex of research and he studies all the procedures at each stage. and if you are talking about an aviation disaster, which is an official event, that 's right. it almost never happens as a single moment, some single factor. as a rule, it is a whole series of reasons that actually create this chain that led to an irreparable tragedy. well, you said that the investigation can last a long time. for a long time and maybe even a year if i understood you correctly . i understand that they will attract helicopter manufacturers to france, that is, international experts . persons for investigation, if the general

requirements say that a specialized commission is created to investigate the official event of the surrender of which it is not possible to find or determine who they are, its key task is to identify all factors that lead to an aviation disaster and develop the appropriate requirements or to make changes to the existing documents so that such a disaster never happens again, and in parallel with the aviation investigator, a conditional criminal commission can be created, which can already identify and search for specific guilty persons or officials or other persons who could be involved in this disaster. if there are such, then if we are talking exclusively about the aviation investigation, then here, first of all, we are talking about the creation of a commission that includes directly representatives of the airline or the organization that operated the aircraft, representatives of the factory that manufactured the aircraft , respectively vessels representatives of relevant state bodies responsible for flight safety that is, we are talking about e-e for the price of the service of ukraine if it is a civil

aircraft if it is a return or air a ship, that is, a ship-state reaction, that is, one or another ministry of defense that will be directly responsible for the operation of this or that piece of equipment, but you said such a thing that you will still have to conduct an investigation and find out whether there were acts of illegal external interference. listen, well well, on the one hand, it's easy, but on the other hand, it's hard to imagine that as long as the war is going on, that security measures have been strengthened, that there were acts of some kind of external interference in the air, the helicopter, the helicopter that is used by the higher officials of ukraine let's talk about e-e in general. the use of state aviation aircraft. that is, it is the aviation transport that can be used, including not only for the performance of state tasks, but also for the transportation of state officials, so e, as a rule, in general, the procedure for operating e-e flights with the first by persons it

has special instructions according to special procedures, i.e. airlines , departure airports or reporting and landing sites from which these flights are performed there and specialized procedures, including related to the inspection of aircraft, there is a special permit, that is, only exclusively certified and admitted personnel who pass the inspection, including the security services of ukraine, are allowed to service such aircraft, if we are talking about external interference, it can actually be more than language about external interference on the part of the aircraft itself, we can talk about any external interference in principle that could have occurred during the flight or airspace officials of the ministry of internal affairs business from kyiv to kharkiv today, thank you very much. well,

military expert ivan stupak, a former employee of the security service of ukraine, joins our broadcast. second, we turn it on. that's it. congratulations, congratulations. then you are also an expert of the ukrainian institute of the future - this and the institution, the organization in which denys monastyrskyi also worked for a long time, did you know him yes, yes, for sure, we cooperated with them in the verkhovna rada, he was a member of the e-e legal committee e-e on issues of law enforcement there were aspects we met with him and he thinks about the future and uh, yevgeny yenin is very difficult to understand, it is difficult to talk about people in the past tense, it is difficult to compose something, he also worked at the institute, he was, uh, the deputy executive director, that is, a lot of creative ideas, non-standard ideas ideas, and here they really were. well, a cool team, cool without exaggeration , a cool team, how did they change the ministry

? let's go, uh, i won't say for everyone all such depths, but what i saw uh, personally, i'm more uh, openness, that is, to the house of garbage to the public ah and the main thing that i liked very much is that there is such a term as the new government. the model is the old one. there is the new government. the old government. when you enter the office, this is my chair . said, “you don’t do it, they didn’t have it, but for them, the office was just a workplace, and the new government model was that they delegated authority down, that is, really down, people were given the opportunity to make decisions on their own convictions, that is, no one kept them there wait you have to to get an instruction, you must get

approval. yes, there were such things, but mostly they tried to let go, or these are god's, so that people take responsibility for this and work as they see fit, well, within the framework of the law, within the framework of functional duties, yes, those are official duties. well, good let me remind you once again that according to the version of the security service of ukraine, three versions of the violation of the flight rules, the technical malfunction of the helicopter and the deliberate actions to destroy the vehicle are considered more precisely, which of these versions currently seems the most likely to you come on, it will be unprofessional if i say this version now, it will be a guess. yes, we will really wait for the first conclusions of the investigative team. i understand that the office of the president of ukraine is just , well, in a good sense, normally putting pressure on the body at the service security in order to issue the first results as soon as possible, since the president's office is waiting, it is necessary to understand what

happened and society is waiting, this is not peaceful times, this is a war and so many people died at the same time by a large helicopter, but what personally confuses me is extraordinary the fog that was over the breweries at this time of the day, my friends called me after the accident and said, listen, there was just an extraordinary fog there, it was just capital, nothing could be seen, and that’s it. well, at least at least it confuses me . the institution of the ministry of internal affairs to work. i mean how much its work depended and was concentrated in the hands of the leaders, does their death not pose a threat to the ministry itself, to its work, more precisely to what? what did the minister and the first lead you to? deputy minister, they tried as much as possible to delegate authority downwards so that the system does not depend on one or two

people, oh, there is no minister, there is no deputy, we cannot do anything, that is, there are functional opportunities, please work, there is a need to agree on something well, according to the regulations, wait for approval, but i would understand, i see that the system will work. yes, it is now, but it is not destroyed. it is so incomprehensible when the minister died there at the same time, the first deputy secret secretary, but he was appointed immediately because of for a few hours as the acting minister of internal affairs, he understands the situation, he is appointed, you don't know, not from the agricultural sector, not there, i don't know, he is in some other field, that is, he worked in the ministry that appointed ihor klymenko as the head of the national police, and not, for example, the deputies of mr. monastyrsky, well, it was it is certain, yes, well, see that the deputies are engaged in certain areas of work, that is,

not just there, he oversees some area of ​​work for the deputies, for example, i cannot tell you why exactly the candidacy of mr. klymenka maybe he's better at listening maybe he has more experience maybe eh well, speaking between us politically, it's more convenient for now, it's clear that there will then be a candidate for a permanent minister who can be appointed so that he has all the power and he can work as much as possible in my position ok well, now i still want to return to the version that the sbu gives if we focus on the version that talks about some, well, intentional actions, intentional damage to the rotorcraft, were there enemies in what do you think, did the heads of the ministry of internal affairs have enemies? i think there are always enemies in such positions, always internal, then patches are external. i think there were

many more external ones, because the ministry of internal affairs is a division of the cord and criminal intelligence and the department of internal security and many, many others. units and the border service, well, i can’t list all of them, they really worked against the russians, they also worked in the occupied territories. from the side of the occupation authorities, of course well, maybe they are also there. this is my personal belief that within a week i think in the next 7 days we will hear at least something so primary intermediate from the investigative bodies, i am more than sure that

the representatives of the manufacturing plant that manufactured these helicopters will definitely be involved they will be in place, i think they will also take part in various technical examinations in order to find out whether this or that version is confirmed or refuted or that or another version but it seems to me that within a week we may hear something already, that's actually where i started to think well , to recall similar cases, when there would have been an attempt on the life of a high-ranking official in ukraine, when he would have died. well, fortunately, he did not die, but there was an attempt on the life of serhii shefir, do you remember in 2021, in fact, the results and still no investigation this is in the context. about when we can expect some results, you say in a week, to be honest, i have doubts that it will become known in a week, well, for objective and also for subjective reasons, maybe i, i perfectly understand your, uh, your thoughts. i remember this case myself,

you know, there are no good examples, but now there is a war and now so many people have died at once, this is such a tragedy and well, it seems to me that the investigative bodies and the president's office should learn lessons from this whole tragedy and urgently inform the society what is what did it happen at all, to understand this, is there intervention by third parties or third parties, or is it a technical technical malfunction or a pilot error, but it is necessary to find out, and society is waiting, society is waiting very much, if there are no results, i say once again this is my personal opinion, it will be so destroyed and such a fragile trust that has now been formed during the war between society and the state well, in particular, because so many civilians died, including civilians who simply, well, if you can say so, accidentally found themselves on the road on the road of this

rotorcraft yes yes, a child, one child, at least this is already updated data of the emergency situations service , today it was reported about three children and even four, but everything was updated and agreed, and according to the latest data, one child died but nevertheless, this is one child yes, thank you very much ivan stupak military expert of the ukrainian institute of the future, a former employee of the security service of ukraine was on radio svoboda well, as i have already mentioned several times, the cabinet of ministers of ukraine appointed the head of the national police, ihor klymenko , as acting head of the ministry of internal affairs this was announced by prime minister denys shmyhal igor klymenko has been working in the ministry of internal affairs since the end of the 90s, he worked in various positions and in 2017 he became the deputy head of the national police of ukraine and in 2019 he headed the national commission. klymenko was not monastyrskyi's deputy except for the first the deputy of yenin, who also died, there were five more deputies. well, today it was assumed

that one of these deputies would perform the duties of the minister, but the government decided to appoint ihor klymenko to this position. it is interesting that klymenko today also they appointed the deputy minister of internal affairs and only then entrusted him with fulfilling the duties of the minister. well, as long as he fulfills these duties, the verkhovna rada must decide and agree on the candidacy of the person who will already occupy the position of minister, who can head the ministry during the war about we will continue to talk about this. well, when it can happen, a member of the people's deputy of ukraine, a voice faction, a representative of the committee on law enforcement , oleksandr ustinova, joins the broadcast. my congratulations. well, i sympathize with you because denys monastyrsky, he was also your colleague on the committee. he headed your profile committee in the verkhovna rada. that's how you would assess the

role of the ministry during the war and in the defense of the state . how did you see this whole story, they wrote today that the death of the minister strikes at the very heart of the government because the ministry of internal affairs itself is of vital importance to maintain security during war do you agree with this thesis i absolutely agree, i want to point out that this is a huge loss not only for ukraine and the ministry of internal affairs is a huge even i will tell you an honest international tragedy. i am in davos today at the forum, i can tell you that every speech starting from mr. shultz and ending with the speeches of our president, president duda , they talked about the tragedy that happened in ukraine today because let's talk about the fact that when the war started, the national guard became one alongside the armed forces alone, that is, defended and defends our country now, and it was the ministry of internal

affairs and denys monastyrskyi who were entrusted with the responsibility of communicating everything that happens with international partners, so i can't even explain to you how much this is a huge loss for us and for the people who worked with childhood, because after avakov , after he was released, you know , it was such a breath of fresh air when we still hoped for new changes, that there would be reforms in the ministry and in fact, what is left now is very scary, and i hope that in the near future we will find a worthy person who, of course, denis did not succeed, but who will be able to lead the ministry and take under his leadership everything that is currently being taken care of in the ministry of internal affairs, this is what i want to remind, the state emergency service is all those who are now rescuing our ukrainians from under the rubble every time russian missiles fly at us, this is also the border service, which is now defending our borders together

with the u.s. armed forces e.u. in the ranks of the national guard therefore, of course, i would like to find a worthy person to replace him in this position, well, actually, about this worthy person, and who could he be? and by the way, let's first , what do you think, and why did mr. klymenko appoint the government today as a deputy minister and put him in charge to carry out the duties of the minister well, i think that this happened because, after all, the national police is now one of the largest formations, in fact, which are under the ministry of internal affairs, and klymenko heads the national police. therefore, it was obvious the decision that i think for many other ministers, other deputy ministers who, besides you , are nina, uh, it would be denysa, they are engaged in separate divisions, separate areas of the ministry's work, more so, as i said, more

bureaucratic, and that's why we needed a person who, after all, can now hold the situation and will be able to ensure the work of the national police and other formations in the future. well , then who can become the successor of denys monastyrsky here, you know, i want to talk about what is always the case it was traditionally held in ukraine that the position of the head of the ministry of internal affairs was a political position. should this tradition be continued or should it be stopped and give preference to a professional person? well, first of all, i want to say that you said that the verkhovna rada will decide . the verkhovna rada usually votes for those who are proposed by the government, and any ministerial position in our country is political, that is, the position of the state secretary, who, unfortunately, also died together with denys monastyrsky she is not a political one, it

is a government appointed one, that is, the position of a minister is always in our country. well, because that is how the legislation is written in our country, it is a political position . it is difficult for me to say now who will be proposed to replace denys monastyrsky, because i know that it was very difficult to find a- and in fact a person who will be able to lead such a huge structure and organize its work when arsena avakova was fired, so it is difficult for me to say now who will be this candidate, but i really wanted it to be as decent and an honest person like denis was, because even i, as an opposition faction, supported his candidacy because i had no problems working with denis for more than two years, remember and regarding his decency, his honesty well, it could happen that, for example, he will be eternal but for a long, long time, the head of the ministry will not be there, but will simply be in, well, we can see this on the example of the security service of ukraine, where vasyl the kid replaced ivan bakanov, but at the same time he did not become a full-fledged minister, or a full-

fledged head of the sbu, but just an executor responsibilities, i think that this will not happen after all, mr. klymenko is, uh, exclusively the head of the police. he was always the head of the police under the ministry of internal affairs . i want the virus to find a person who will be able to ensure the work of not only the national police, but also all the structures that are currently under the ministry. it is difficult for me, especially considering that i am with the opposition faction, to say who the government will propose. the cabinet of ministers for this position, but once again i want to emphasize that it is very important for us as parliamentarians that this is a decent and honest person whom we can trust because she has huge responsibilities now during the war, what exactly denys monastyrskyi headed, e.e. the ministry of internal affairs when the war started and he was able to resist and work effectively, he was also part of the negotiating team. thanks to him, there are a

lot of people. i would like this person to be a person who can work just as effectively. well, what about you? you noted that the government should propose a candidate, but very often people's deputies also become ministers . to be honest, it is difficult to tell you now that someone from the parliamentarians will be able to lead. because ah, i want to remind you that when denys monastyrskyi left, for several months even the position of the head of the committee was vacant and for a long time they could not find a person until something happened appointed who will head at least the committee. and i want to remind you that the head of the ministry of internal affairs, especially during the war and during martial law, is a much more responsible position, so i want to believe that they have already started thinking about who can be appointed to this position. and

that everything after all, mr. klymenko will continue to lead the national police and not only, but not be permanently performing his duties, we still need to depart from this tradition when we appoint people to life positions , as a result, should the minister be loyal to the president, taking into account the state of war and the great powers of the president, as denys monastyrskyi was, for example. well, the previous ministers to other presidents, respectively, do you know why or should he be loyal because now 7 have to work, after all, the president is now during the war the first person of the state and well not only during the war, but now he is entrusted with much more functions than before the introduction of martial law, and now, let's say, the cabinet of ministers, the executive power has much more powers, but i want to say that loyalty does not mean under control, because i will remind you that, after all, the national police, which investigates a lot of criminal crimes and corruption crimes, should be an independent body, and the person who should head

the ministry should normally cooperate with the authorities and should have complete trust in it, but it is definitely not should be his own pocket minister who will be able to turn a blind eye to certain things, thank you very much oleksandra ustinova, people's deputy of ukraine, the voice faction was on radio freedom well, i suggest you look again at what happened today in brovary and what did the people who witnessed this tragedy tell us at 8:10 somewhere we sat the children down to eat oh

four of them only today i sat the children down to eat and heard a goal i look at the glass and at the roof of our house well, it is visible from this side on the roof it didn't fall on us, but it did , and i saw only one propeller sticking out and it flew on. i fell to the floor and the garden started to burn, and i closed the windows, grabbed the children, we ran to the basement, but i knew there were people there, and we were already in the basement then let's send men here who ran to us to help the children evacuate one of the hot groups, this is the part of the kindergarten building from which the fire started, according to eyewitnesses, a rotorcraft touched the building well, then the fire started, well, i let the child down as

soon as i left the kindergarten it was the other side and here a helicopter appears and i see him flying straight like that, you can say over the school like that, from there to there like that, and i'm like that well, not to the kindergarten, just to the kindergarten and he lands, he lands right in the center of the kindergarten and falls there. it was very scary, i already ran even in the group on the second floor to look for the child , she did not find them. everything was in smoke, she searched everything, realized that he was not there, and already, well, the neighboring group had already started to burn. that is, it is a completely different side of the kindergarten, and it has already started to burn , everything is in smoke. thank god, my child is already they managed to get down from the basement because it was very close. i was taking my granddaughter to school and we just left. we were probably somewhere at 8:05 or 8:07 and they were

flying right over our heads. i thought it was a jet plane and it was flying and literally. well here we can get 500 meters less and such an explosion such an explosion and a fire and very high somewhere above this house rose well it's a u-12 and everything smokes everything my father immediately came there to the kindergarten i was waiting for him at home waiting for him not to say what what i will help him then we we have, she went out into the street and started bringing children to my house. i don't know what to do with them. your teacher is there. her head was broken in the back of her head. she had blood on the garden of her whole life. in the first medical aid, i was a friend of bykov's hleb. he came to me. we immediately helped the children. they worked, provided bandages, gave candy, calmed down, wrote down the names, found the parents, er,

mother ran in. well, the emotions were simple. between the kindergarten and the residential building in the city of brovary, we can say that there were nine people on board the helicopter belonging to the state emergency service, among them the leadership of the ministry of internal affairs , all the national police services of the state emergency service prosecutors of the dbr and the sbu and establish the reasons for the helicopter crash. we sympathize with everyone who lost

their loved ones in today's tragedy in brovary. and we will return to the air tomorrow. yes, the generator on the street is humming ukrainian veterans background money fund helps veteran enterprises i wonder what is needed for this but only fop and ubd this is for example how my husband and i have family business up to 20 thousand hryvnias give it, i understand. thank you very much for the bouquet of support