pagorner today legally registered as a certain legal entity, well, now we will see what is happening in berlin there. ukrainians are probably only ukrainians, and our people of other nationalities who support ukraine took to the streets, uh, they took to the streets of berlin and chanted, uh, give ukraine leopards if it happens under the bundestag if there is sound well, you can literally listen there for a few seconds well done guys everywhere they will push everywhere they will get thank god ukrainians today all over the world are enough designed for our diaspora temporary there to germany, i say goodbye to you. take care. good evening on the air in autumn from ukraine live from london. i am evgenia shedlovska and

today in our issue of rammstein best tanks, partners of ukraine give weapons, but not leopards . of the armed forces for both counterattack and defense against a repeated attack by russia, 10 tanks will not change anything, it is very few tanks, armored vehicles and modern aircraft, what weapons to provide to ukraine, it was decided on

the meeting in ramstein is already the eighth such meeting that came to the american air base rammstein in germany, which gave the name to this format. ukraine's allies, more than fifty countries that are part of the contact group with military aid to ukraine, promised new military aid, but without tanks of german design, without leopards, which ukraine expected from rammstein but not only minister of defense of ukraine oleksiy reznikov before rammstein named the following priorities more air defense systems more weapons for offensive operations tanks howitzers ammunition, systematic supply of ammunition and repair and maintenance of weapons and equipment. first, a meeting of the minister of defense of the country was held in the rashtana. president zelenskyy addressed them via video link and called on them not to waste time to hurry up to provide tanks to ukraine, to make, according to him, a tank rammstein and reminded that this is a war not the world, the war unleashed by russia

does not allow delays and i can thank you hundreds of times and it will be absolutely deserved and fair in view of everything we have already done, but these hundreds of thanks are not hundreds tanks, i am sincerely grateful to all of you for the weapons provided to you, each unit helps to save our people from terror, but time is still a russian weapon, we must speed up, not delay, urged at the beginning of the meeting the secretary of defense of the united states, louis dostin, the united states provides the most military aid to ukraine with -among other partners and the day before, the usa announced a new package for two and a half equipment, such a rather large list, and already at the meeting in ramstein, louis austin spoke with with such a statement this is a crucial moment russia is

regrouping recruiting troops and trying to rearm this is not the time to slow down the time has come to dig deeper the ukrainian people are watching us the kremlin is watching us and history is watching us so we will not slow down we will not waver in our determination to help ukraine defend itself from imperial aggression of russia, will germany announce the supply of leopard 2 tanks to ukraine, this was the main intrigue of rammstein, while poland and finland are ready to provide these tanks to ukraine, but it is necessary germany's agreement to export tanks of german design, moreover, according to reports, the german concern rain metal is ready to transfer more than a hundred leopards , again under the condition of a green light from the government for the newly appointed german minister of defense boris pistorius . even before the results of the meeting were announced, he spoke about the possibility of supplying tanks. germany will provide

a spring aid package to ukraine worth more than 1 billion euros. germany's military aid will exceed 3 billion 300 million euros, we talked about the possible supply of leopard tanks, we share my views, there are good reasons for the supply of leopard tanks, there are good reasons against, we must listen to all for and against, all allies share this opinion, today we cannot say what the decision on tanks will look like i'm a leopard, actually we don't hesitate, we are very careful about the pros and cons we are not talking about delivering something to someone this is a new type of event and we must be careful, we must take into account the possible

the consequences of this conflict, that is, the german minister says that the country does not hesitate, but does not provide tanks to ukraine, when at the beginning of the russian invasion, germany made a key decision to supply ukraine with weapons, a turning point, as chancellor scholz spoke about it, it is not turning enough; several reasons why germany or rather its chancellor olaf shaw took such a cautious approach, one of them is that the germans do not want a further escalation of the conflict although this particular position changes day by day, the second reason is the history of the second world war of this country, the chancellor perfectly understands that he finds the idea that german tanks will enter ukraine special, this is

one of the areas in which the germans support the sun , unlike his other positions despite on the fact that germany seeks to cooperate with the united states, today the position of olaf scholz is widely known, and it consists in the fact that he received leopard battle tanks in ukraine only when america sends ours and we are adding up the results of the eighth rammstein with the experts in contact with us researcher of the london school of economics maria zolkina and director of nujet express search network mykhailo samus i congratulate you both on the air so a good day for the kremlin a bad day for ukraine that's how

rammstein i support mrs. maria from the right in because in fact, rammstein itself is a coordination event, it was attended by high-ranking officials in order to look each other in the eye, make sure that they trust each other and start working on sectoral directions, that is, it is obvious that the work in the tank direction is just beginning, and i am sure that it will be successful, that is, a decision will be made in germany, i think the most uh, rather about the supply of tanks, just the permission to reexport tanks, the finns, who have already flown to the czech republic, slovakia, and a few more countries of western europe. i think that everything will be fine and for russia, in fact, it is a black day, because the main conceptual point is the main conclusion of this

rammstein . from this expectation, the ukrainian government failed to deliver tanks, the rest of the tank happened, why couldn't germany be persuaded to do so? what do you think? i think that in germany, the political reasons of the minister of defense of ukraine for the matches really consisted in the fact that they have a problem, a psychological problem of historical experience. they said that our grandfathers stopped by on tanks to ukraine they fought with the russians now we don't want it to lead to similar consequences i don't know what he was really talking about because it is absolutely impossible to compare the events of the second world war and now everything has turned upside down now a mirror image, the russians attacked the ukrainians and for some reason the germans do not want to help us here. it is difficult to explain, but i think that the

new minister is inclined to be constructive and our allies such as poland will help to solve this issue. what is the support in society, ms. maria, germany does not want to anger russia by giving ukraine a tank, there is another opinion, well, it is rather a complete departure from that paradigm, in fact, when germany was afraid of angering russia, so to speak, because today compared to what germany's position was regarding the additional large-scale invasion, germany took a huge step forward in the supply of weapons and heavy artillery, and moreover, there is no doubt that tanks will be in ukraine, the only question is that the internal discussion in germany is really less flexible with from the point of view of turning towards the last last barricade let's put it this way because

tanks and battle tanks and fighters are the last last type of weapons that until recently was under a kind of political taboo on the part of our westerners allies and this particular taboo was broken, and moreover, germany will obviously be forced to respond to sentiments regarding the support of ukraine. there may indeed be certain nuances in german society, but in general, i will remind you that about two-thirds of the rest at a certain time increases, at a certain time this indicator decreases, but for sure more than half of the germans in general support the armed support of ukraine, all of them and aggression, and therefore olafshorlz is actually a bit behind in the political sense, and according to the results, ployd austin is in rammstein in fact, with the aid that the united states and other countries have already mentioned, mr. mykhailo, did you hear something new in this list

? well, indeed, the discussions, including the results of the meeting at rammstein fly toast - in fact, i listed all the military aid that was already mentioned and the united states and other countries, mr. mykhailo, have you heard something new in this list? well, indeed, discussions about whether or not open discussions have been held for several weeks, it was very, very nice that the americans are handing us the bradley infantry fighting vehicle. of the most modern infantry fighting vehicles, which will become i think the main element of our breakthrough units that will lead the offensive er-e in fact, it is such a light tank again er-e if we talk about whether they give us heavy weapons or not, we will be given, for example, bmp cv90 is a thirty-ton machine, that is, it is also close to a tank with a 40-millimeter gun, a very powerful thing and very effective. i think that the list

that was announced before rammstein and now it is simply impressive, the only thing that i did not see was really possible issued eh on ramstein's decision will be further consulted, these are long-range missiles for heilmars 160 km, which of course they talked about atakams missiles with a range of 30 km, we need these missiles now in order to prepare an offensive so that the ukrainian army has fire control over virtually the entire depth of the front, so that not a single command post with ammunition or a concentration of personnel of the russian federation remains in the occupied territories. those who are not afraid that a missile will fly to them now. unfortunately, this is not the case. and these missiles are no less important. it seems to me that there is a breakthrough, a big breakthrough in terms of artillery ammunition. the united states has begun transporting

ammunition for ukraine from its warehouses in israel and south korea, and this means that there will be no famine in ukraine. ammunition that was felt throughout the war and i really think this is most likely one of the most positive signals p mykhailo and maria please stay in touch with us , we will continue the conversation and on the eve of rammstein european countries country nations announced a large aid package for ukraine, 9 countries promised to give more weapons, the ministers of defense of these countries met at a military base in estonia, adopted a joint declaration on aid, yes, denmark announced that it would transfer 19 self-propelled artillery installations, this is for estonia, dozens destroy hundreds of anti-tank grenade launchers, lithuania and latvia several helicopters, other weapons, britain gives 600 brimstone missiles to britain at the moment the only country that is ready to provide western challenger 2 tanks to ukraine, and that's why these tanks are as critical for this stage of the war is analyzed by bbc viewer jonathan bill, who covered the

meeting in estonia yesterday, since the beginning of the war, the event was focused exclusively on giving ukraine defensive weapons, and now everything has changed. in the pit will probably help ukraine to break through the russian line of defense and return its territories to move from defense to offensive challengers that britain plans to send to ukraine are already on duty in the estonian military hopes that such weapons will significantly change the situation on the ukrainian front, and as recently as yesterday there was hope that the transfer of german tanks to ukraine would be agreed at the meeting in rammstein, but today already at the meeting itself, the minister of defense of germany said that there is no decision later this was confirmed at the final press - conference representatives of the united

states, american minister rostin and general milley, this is what they said, let's listen, i think you heard what the german minister of defense said earlier about the supply of single-armed tanks there steelepards have no connection with each other, and i think that his statement was quite clear and understandable. at this meeting, we focused on making sure that ukraine has the ability to be successful now, dear ones, from a military point of view. i still maintain that this year will be very, very it is difficult to reject the russian troops with the occupied territories of ukraine this does not mean that it cannot happen or that it will not happen but it will be very, very difficult to do in my opinion what can happen continuation of defense stabilization front and it is quite possible to do it. it depends on the supply of weapons and

equipment to ukraine. i really believe that it is quite possible to improve the tactical and even operational level of the ukrainians to launch an offensive operation to win back as much ukrainian territory as possible , so we will see what will come of it. i believe that this war, like all wars before it, will end at the negotiating table of negotiations between the leaders of both countries of russia and ukraine. these are the statements of american officials. and we are in touch with the director of nutur-expresovych advork mykhailo maria zolkina, a researcher at the london school of economics herself, here is mrs. maria, britain is ready to provide challenger 2 tanks, why was it not enough for germany to follow the example of britain, that is, not to be the first to provide tanks, why is germany all that looks back at the united states, as the media write about it, and here is this dependence of abrams there will be leopards. what do you think? well, first of all, germany has played a little bit in, let's say , the transfer of passports to other countries has been going on for a

month, although from a logistical and technological point of view, it makes no sense. there are no cars, the transfer of american tanks in particular, because everything will be based on logistics, not only because they drive a little for maintenance in case of the slightest need for repair . are worried about, let's say, a certain reaction on the part of russia, although this certainly does not sound in the official position of germany, but germany and france are more determined to leave the future market for some of a possible dialogue of diplomatic communication in germany, but germany fede therefore, personally , the position of the entire german and establishment is very important, and it is not even the position of the german government, it is the position of more social democrats and directly of the scholastic to the last to operate on this. and the british took

an extremely important symbolic step in order to dong era and see how the eastern flank of nato became active following this news from the british side and we saw several important innovations in recent days, and as already mentioned, there is also a leg to the tax defense, the support of each other , the michelands and sweden, which was also prepared these days, all this is happening because the eastern flank of the european union and nato is directing its aid to ukraine and, accordingly, is planning its defense policy differently with greater foresight to germany, such a u-turn is still not quite right. let's say it like this, and here you are saying symbolically that britain provides a tangent, mr. mykhailo, britain provides 14 tanks,

this is not the 300 tanks that the general talked about zaluzhnyy at the end of last year, here is the list of what weapons he needs to win 14 tanks out of three hundred tanks, this is like a drop in the ocean, well, close to that, because 14 tanks are one company and uh, in fact, the same uh, about 14 tanks poland declared, then the czech republic and slovakia joined and i think finland . talk about a certain er let's put it this way, the concept of using, for example, leopards on the battlefield challenger this is a slightly different tank problem when we talk about several types of tanks, these are generally uh problems, of course, logistical problems, these are problems of provision, these are problems of training crews

, training uh specialists of technical personnel, and so on. well, that is even the french have now started. let's give leclerc more. that is, if we have four different types of tanks in the armed forces, this will, i think, be a challenge for the armed forces as well for ukraine and our partners, that's why we say that after the analysis, it is best if they were leopards. there are many of them in europe, about 2,000 of them . abrams because there are a lot of them and the united states is ready to provide them, but abrams it is equipped with a gas turbine unit it is very capricious let's just say it needs special fuel for special maintenance and it was concluded that it is impractical to supply them to ukraine for the time being and it is better probably focus on a single type and it would of course be leopards, maybe there will be

more than one battalion of challengers and then it can be used as already such a powerful force, and other military observers also said that leopards were most needed in ukraine because they are in europe has supply chains and it is easier to learn about them then, but here, ms. maria, if germany still does not allow the re-export of leopards, then there is where in ukraine to get other tanks. well, today we heard not transparent hints from others member countries to know that if the classic procedure for obtaining a permit for the re-export consignment is not applied, then a standard procedure can be found, and this is what was stated by the representative of the ministry of foreign affairs of poland, so this position actually leads us to the fact that it is quite possible that behind closed doors, either today or in the near future

, some specific formula will be discussed from germany, in which way germany will still be able to supply leopards to ukraine, but at the same time, it will provide in which in some exotic form, and perhaps not as directly as it should be, according to expectations, the permission for this re-export by other countries that use these tanks mykhailo absolutely correctly noticed that the main value of this type of weapon is that there are many of them and these tanks have been successfully used for several decades by those who there is a complete understanding on the part of the military of how to service these machines and in what way, where are their weak points, where are their strengths, that is, it was tested in real battles in real armed forces conflicts and that is why ukraine will continue to insist on this and i think that it will not look for any other substitutes now because this is the best option

once and for the second time we are extremely close to it, i think we will really find it in six months and the diplomats and the military feel it, but in general, western countries provide ukraine with weapons. so gradually, in such steps, from lighter weapons to yours, from javalid stringers to patriot complexes , they are already and are even ready to provide other armored vehicles. so you already talked about bradley the british provide armored personnel carriers bulldog from the mykhailik district, such armored vehicles, if in large quantities, they can potentially give an advantage on the battlefield as well as tanks, or do you really see that tanks and bmps, for example , and armored personnel carriers are different types of armored vehicles that have their own functions, that is, when we talk about weapons in the western doctrine, that is, in ukraine, nato and now in ukraine, we also talk about capybilitis, that is, combat capabilities, not exactly about some uh piece of metal or some

device, but uh, a certain amount, for example tanks give certain cape-bilitis, a certain number of bmps give certain combat capabilities, and therefore tanks, in principle, cannot replace bmps, or vice versa, tanks have their own function, e-e, in the attack of bmps, they support infantry in armored personnel carriers, they transport infantry to the e-e line of fire, and therefore, unfortunately in a direct way, tanks will not replace bmps, although in principle, in some cases, such heavy bmps as bradley or all the v90s that i mentioned can create real firepower, firepower that will allow such breakthrough operations, raid operations, but it would be desirable, of course, to add modern tanks, which create real opportunities for the transfer of fire and the creation of opportunities for the formation of directions for the advance of infantry, of course, the role

of self-propelled artillery is important, which can easily and concentratedly form concentrated fire in the necessary directions and once create opportunities for carrying out such operations, therefore , unfortunately, not everyone has a direct replacement of tanks, these whitened ones are formed by each type of weapon separately. well, just like hymars, for example, so they form a separate type combat capabilities which, in principle , cannot be replaced. or you can, of course, try to use other types, but it is unlikely to work , the former commander of the us forces in europe beneral benhoji said on the bbc broadcast when he was asked whether ukraine needs tanks now and what they can change on the battlefield like the

american abrams - this is the highest tank helmet in the world. if you want, it is a real combat fist. that's why ukraine is asking for it. it doesn't matter what market the tanks will be and they will be needed. not today, not immediately. they will need this combat equipment in the spring of the general staff in my opinion, he realizes that he is quite capable of stopping the russian offensive operations with the means he already has in his arsenal, so they are thinking about it. and what will be decisive here? zaporozhye is trying to break the corridor between crimea and the rest of the occupied territories. after all , crimea must be liberated first, and the rest will follow after that, so the tanks could be part of the great armored group that will go on the offensive in the spring, i must say that i am very sorry that even my own country still

refuses to provide abrams tanks. i don't understand this, i hear different explanations and none of them seem appropriate for making important political decisions, and germany relies on it. although it already has so many provided help, they don’t understand why they are fighting with the leopards, the minimum they should do is to allow poland and finland to transfer their own leopard tanks to ukraine well, but if other countries can send a leopard to ukraine without the consent of germany, it is still open the question is yes, the german minister of defense did not give a direct answer to this, but the statement of the polish minister of defense is interesting. he said that during rammstein there was a separate meeting regarding the supply of tanks to ukraine, representatives of 15 countries gathered, according to him , a successful coalition will be formed, he hopes for that and yes the polish minister himself said that his country would provide ukraine with soviet-style tanks and 72, as it had done before , and maria zolkina and mykhailo samus are in touch with us for a few minutes.

by the end of the program with mr. mykhailo, in your opinion, poland will be able to provide the leopard to ukraine without the consent of germany, of course, theoretically, this is possible , there are no physical problems, the problem is legal, that is, in fact, the ministry of economy of germany, which is engaged in export control, must still fulfill its function and grant permission for re-export these tanks and then everything will be according to the rules, it will be with the fulfillment of the requirements of the export control regimes. the rai metal company itself will not be able to service all the tanks, and the tanks in ukraine will have to be serviced, repaired , and spare parts provided, and that is why i still hope that the legal procedure will be followed. i do not see any obstacles in this, and the german ministry of economy will grant this permission and everything will be according to the rules including from the point of view of

providing and repairing our, i will say two of our ukrainian leopards, and here, mrs. maria, in your opinion, what are the consequences if , after all, this re-expert is done without the permission of germany, literally for a few seconds, well the consequences will be such that if poland , for example, is the first to do it, germany will still follow this path and will allow it after the fact and will join it, because today there is no reason for germany to break relations with its closest partners within nato and of the european union. that is, it can be just such a step to anticipate. let's say that the decision that she does not dare to take now is a step of not anticipating.