every year of our independence, a bunch of agents infiltrated here. the russian federation invested crazy money to ensure that there were such networks here, such networks that could be activated. and indeed, our special services are now doing a great job of deactivating all these networks and exposing these networks . but we have to understand that it is not done in one day and it is not done in one month, this is what should have been done all these years, it is in an instant, magic wands will not be done well , it does not happen like that in principle, that is why it is necessary here pay attention to all those who are now actively changing their colors there, claiming that they will now be for ukraine. that there, the most sincere ukrainian has a package of political proposals, or there may be foreign players who actively come here and try to interact with the topic of negotiations, that is, all of this is the russian federation will engage and

retransmit on all available and signs , that is, bears and advocate for the un, thank you. it was maria kucherenko, an analyst of the fund, come back alive and, accordingly, we are probably waiting for such yes, the comeback of 2015 with conversations, what should be to hear someone somewhere over there, but as maria said correctly, today is not the year at all, so it won't work, it just won't work, no one will listen to any more fairy tales, some lies, this is all so, so, but you have to be vigilant, see you. greetings, dear tv viewers in on the air of the espresso tv channel, the studio program, the event will analyze the most important events on the world agenda, well, let's start the analysis with a large

gathering in davos, our guests are metiobraz ekhradnyh , the secretary of state of the united states, and andriy piontkovsky, a political scientist who is in washington, our first guest is matthew bryce , former adviser to the secretary of state of the united states, former director of the united states national security council for europe and eurasia. greetings dear mr. ambassadors. kudos to ukraine. kudos to ukraine. coincide with the decisions at rammstein, where the story will be finalized with the allocation of extremely important weapons to us, mr. ambassadors, how do you see the current situation after the meeting gave axis and what, in your opinion, public and non- public decisions could have been made. henry kissinger is a famous geopolitician who is 99 years old, but has changed his position, in particular. he

explained that after the victory, ukraine can join nato, first of all, regarding the meeting in rammstein. i think that germany there will be enormous pressure to agree to the transfer by poland of leopard tanks that it bought in germany, as well as to the transfer of some german tanks to ukraine by germany itself. in davos, everyone said that information was leaking from washington that there will be great pressure from the usa, and we know that great britain has already deprived chancellor schultz of one of his arguments that stood in the way of the transfer of leopards to ukraine, namely that germany did not want to be the first to promise to do so. great britain has already promised to hand over part of its challenges, i think that the main result of the meeting at rammstein will be that germany will succumb to such pressure and agree to transfer to ukraine

the leopards you need. yes, it is late, but thank god it is not too late in ukraine to be ready either for my own offensive, which i hope will happen soon, or for any russian offensive in the spring, about which there are rumors, as for the statement of henry kissinger, it is amazing, when i first read it, i thought that it must be a mistake or maybe some kind of joke, because kissinger completely changed his position we all know that he spoke about ukraine a few months ago that ukraine should come to terms with the execution of donbas and crimea, this is his typical view, so he is really a politician who believes in brute force and i think that he realized that he had miscalculated on whose side brute force was on, and it turned out to be ukraine and its friends, partners and future allies in

nato . membership action plan no invasion of russia any in georgia in 2008 any in ukraine in 2014 and 22 there would never be and the last about kissinger i always feared that he never changed his position because he did fortune thanks to his consulting company kissinger and partners advising investors specifically on russian issues and helping to attract large investments related to russia, so i think that what we see now is influenced by either his respectable age or the amazing successes of ukraine on the battlefield, as well as the determination that demonstrated by your society, i think he understood that now ukraine is a real power, diplomatic models will work after our victory, and here we are entering an extremely

difficult situation, in particular, it is about supplying us with heavy armored vehicles, we have heard a lot of different plans of promises, so far we have seen the extremely effective position of poland and the extremely effective position of great britain and the united states. great britain promises to provide us with challenger-2 heavy tanks, although in small quantities so far. the united states has agreed to supply us with bradley infantry fighting vehicles and accordingly, olafshol is the one who keeps his finger on the extremely important casey , because the main european tank is the leopard-2, which i already partially touched on at the beginning this issue, saying that schultz is under enormous pressure from the rest of nato, his defense minister and all of germany in rammstein felt what the chancellor felt in davos. i think

that this pressure will be enough. i believe that germany will agree to the transfer of leopard tanks and other weapons to ukraine. yesterday i was really amazed when i watched the news from the world economic forum in davos and heard statements about the constant support of ukraine by european leaders, from whom i did not expect it, the belgian prime minister for example, after all, all the belgian news says that we will be with ukraine until the end, the spanish prime minister said the same thing in washington two days ago, the dutch prime minister markarute had a meeting with president biden a few days ago and also spoke at the atlantic council where i was once a senior researcher and when he was asked whether you think that the time may come when the west and europe will not want to supply weapons to ukraine and we will get tired of ukraine, he said that this will not happen, that we must continue and we will continue because if we don't stop putin now his hand

will reach us i think olafsholt also understands this but he finds it difficult to maintain political balance within german politics so he is trying to find a way to move forward and now the moment is coming when he has to tell his coalition partners that we are no longer we cannot withstand the pressure, we must do the right thing, the green party and its minister of foreign affairs are already advocating the provision of more weapons to ukraine, and i think that in the minds of germany big changes have taken place because at the beginning of the war they said that we feel guilty before the russians for some deaths caused by the nazi regime. now, as far as i'm concerned, the debate has changed and the germans realize that if you compare ukrainians and russians, ukrainians suffered the most per capita suffering caused by the

nazis during the second world war and not the russians, therefore scholz will not be able to resist more and we will see the leopards who will arrive in ukraine soon after the meeting in rammstein there was an extremely important meeting between the main by the leading generals, the commander behind luzhnyi and mark miley, who heads the joint committee of the american staff, the meeting took place in poland, we know very little about the specifics of this meeting, but whatever you think it could mean, it is an amazing symbolic meeting , if not to say more. were careful about the signals, wanting to make it clear that putin should not claim that nato is somehow russia's adversary in this war, partly due to fears that putin might escalate

conflict and use nuclear weapons, and partly because if it looks like nato is really at war with russia, then putin will have more reason to claim that he had no choice but to invade ukraine, which i'm sure we'll talk about now. so then, at the beginning of the war such a meeting between the military leaders of the usa, poland and ukraine was truly politically unthinkable, it is happening now and demonstrates that, in particular, the military leadership of these two large nato countries and ukraine is coordinating their actions in the operational plan and in in terms of intelligence sharing, and now in terms of more and more deadly weapons such as himers, which have been provided to the usa as patriot leopard systems, which i hope are already on the horizon. so this is a very important meeting and it sends a wide range of political signals, the biggest

of which is that putin, you have decided fighting with nato is what you did and what is happening now, we in nato are not going to declare war, but we are going to make you suffer and guarantee that your military will not defeat the ukrainians, that is, as far as i i understand that the united states has already ceased to be afraid of a so-called nuclear war, we understand that in any incomprehensible situation, putin, either personally or with the help of medvedev or patrushev or some other of his representatives, began to voice the scenarios of the so-called nuclear armageddon, hinting that it could happen and, accordingly, something must have happened or consciousness of the united states or in the united states in washington learned some extremely important points because there is a feeling that america is already ready to cross the so -called russian red lines because russia

crossed any red lines established both by the geneva conventions and by christianity and just by common sense washington repeatedly crossed many of the red lines announced by putin amen it was also in the case of heimers now the patriot system was also other anti-ship missiles provided by great britain denmark turkey gave deadly drones, without giving up the opportunity to be a mediator, all these red lines were violated in front of putin, despite his nuclear threats, or if nato is involved in the conflict, the war will go at the nuclear level, this did not happen and will not happen. because putin, in my opinion, received very clear signals from these calls from narendra modi from washington and from the head of the czar bill burns, for whom i worked for many years in the state department, ambassador burns, former ambassador to moscow. as far as i

i understand very clearly made it clear that if putin proceeds to nuclear escalation by symbolically detonating at least one warhead on the battlefield, there will be an intense response from the united states, which will destroy the russian military on the territory of ukraine, and therefore i think that the answer washington as well as china, india and all nato allies made putin understand that there is no point in nuclear escalation because it will only accelerate the complete defeat of the russian military on the battlefield in ukraine, what will happen in the future, who knows. i mean that putin likes to say that if a russian ship sinks then he can pull the whole world behind him, but this is completely irrational, and president putin is not irrational, he very carefully lists all his steps, he tries to

cause ukraine and europe more pain than those are ready to endure, but he will never succeed because ukraine will never surrender and he will never have a reason to use nuclear weapons because russian territory will never be under threat. we understand that this is a completely logical and normal formula and it is generally accepted by probably the entire western civilization, but there is one extremely important point: russia does not recognize not only the peace formulas, but russia is not ready so to speak, to conduct one or another completely understandable negotiations, in particular, it is about the withdrawal of its occupation contingents, as we have repeatedly said, military strategies agree with us, war is the

same policy, only by other means of war, they end with a certain political result or continue, that is, military force is used for the achievement of political goals so far putin did not get caught up in his rhetoric about what russia's demands were, because they were unrealistic from the very beginning, he just wanted to attack ukraine do you remember that among the initial demands was that nato essentially revoke the entry of the eastern european members who joined after the cold war and withdraw their troops . putin knew that nato and the usa would never agree to this, so he used such a political position to justify his military actions which then were aimed at achieving political goals, namely the liquidation of the sovereignty and independence of ukraine, a year ago in march, negotiations were held with the mediation of turkey, a

compromise supported by ukraine was already on the table, which consisted of because russia withdraws its troops from the occupied territory after february 24, ukraine remains neutral and does not join nato , and only in the future will the question of the political and legal status of crimea and donbas be raised. putin rejected this formula because he wanted to use military force to achieve greater success on the battlefield to strengthen his political position in the negotiations and he lost thanks to the amazing counteroffensive of ukraine in kharkiv and then in the south in kherson in september, now ukraine is winning and it is clear it is impossible for a militarist to win over russia. therefore, now ukraine's demands are more aggressive and they all make sense for ukraine, but for putin. they are still politically unacceptable, and if russia accepts ukraine's demands for negotiations,

it will mean that it will admit its complete defeat, so he will never go for it until suffers a complete defeat on the battlefield putin is not ready for real negotiations because he still hopes that if he throws hundreds of thousands of new unfortunate conscripts into the furnace of war after the next phase of mobilization of europe and the usa sooner or later they will get tired of supporting ukraine and then, in his opinion, the russian military will start to win again. and then it will be possible to negotiate about his political goals from positions that are advantageous for him, so only when, god forbid, it will happen, but it will not happen, or when it will reach putin that he lost in the military plan only then he will go to serious negotiations and i think that this day is near dear mr. ambassador china in davos president zelensky's wife olena zelenska delivered a message for xi jinping, in particular, is talking about the revitalization

of the people's republic of china, perhaps in the perspective of the people's republic of china, so beijing, as far as we understand , is not eager to support the russian federation, but the question is to what extent it will be ready, so to speak, to limit the various aid, how china wants to play, it is difficult to say from the point of view of the harsh reality of china's political perspective he is satisfied that the war will continue for some time. he rhetorically supports russia, accusing the united states of expanding nato and justifying russian invasions of ukraine i think that the chinese leadership does not like that ukraine is suffering so much, that russian troops are committing war crimes, and we know for sure that what worries him most is that putin can really resort to using nuclear weapons for china, but until putin has crossed this threshold, i think that xi jinping

already calculated that the continuation of the war is beneficial to china because both the usa and europe are now occupied with ukraine, which affects their economies, but as we saw on the example of the policy of zero covid, the seat stump can turn around its course at 180°, when something dramatic happens, for example, nationwide protests against him and against his zero-code policy, so the more ukraine succeeds on the battlefield and the stronger the unity of the transatlantic community and its allies in australia and japan, the more unlikely that china will begin to retreat from its support for russia and to express a desire to switch to the side of those who will win due to the restructuring of geopolitical power and russia can no longer be considered a great power china will want to take advantage of new the economic opportunities that will appear as a result of this, this is the reason, please, from the

victory of ukraine on the battlefield, this is the direction in which events are currently moving, well, mr. ambassador, if we are talking about china, we can not ignore one more extremely important player, we are talking about turkey , we are talking about the president, mr. president rdogan is trying to maintain the so-called constructiveness in communication with the kremlin and he is perhaps not the only one who succeeds in this. in nato, we talk about turkey as a bridge between east and west, and this is exactly the role of turkey in relation to russia and ukraine, this ability to be a bridge between east and west is one of the factors that makes turkey so important geostrategically for the transatlantic community, erdogan, his politics much more transactional and not collective from the point of view of security. his approach

to nato is this: they support nato and therefore support nato friends, receiving something in return in a transactional way. that is, it resembles the foreign policy of donald trump. candidates, although unlike trump, erdoğan really appreciates nato and its strategic importance for turkey, the quality of turkey's strategic importance for nato, and for those of us who were brought up in nato during the cold war, our opinion has always been based on the idea of ​​one for all and all for one. a community of values, we protect democratic and economic freedoms and we must be on the side of what is morally correct, erdogan agrees with this and still emphasizes his difficult situation as a neighbor, they say look at our borders, this is a series of iraq, the south caucasus, and across the black sea,

russia and ukraine, so our approach is somewhat different . we are against war, this position is very similar to the german one, and as we said earlier, there was a lot of pressure on germany to change its course and fully support ukraine, however, in the case of turkey, we heard how president zelensky himself welcomed the mediation of the president erdogan, in particular, during the conclusion of the grain agreement, when putin was also grateful. i think that there will come a moment, although not now, when russia will finally be ready for real negotiations and all of nato will welcome the ability of erdogan or any other turkish leader at that moment to be a mediator and therefore lead an open dialogue both

with ukraine and with russia, i think that it is also very good for the alliance that the nato member countries play such an important role, and because of this, putin's stepfather is running out of steam, so putin is trying to drive a wedge between turkey and with the rest of nato and bring it closer to russia, but he does not succeed because turkey provided ukraine with critical military assistance throughout the war in the form of drones . ukraine, he constantly condemns the occupation and annexation of crimea and calls on ukraine to become a member of nato, not to mention the closure of the turkish straits for russian warships that

are based in the black sea, of course. it would be better if turkey under the leadership of murdogan fully supported all sanctions against russia, but i must say that they appreciate the net benefit of supporting turkey, which is obvious. turkey is definitely in the camp of ukraine, but i also see the value in maintaining a line of communication with russia if it hurts i didn't have to admit it. as far as i understand , the system of rationality that works in the west does not work, to put it mildly, in terms of assessments of what is going on in putin's head. i am not a psychiatrist, i cannot diagnose his next steps but we see that he is trying to adhere to his old line, maybe even stalin's, but the question is how far and how long he will actually go in this direction. i am also not a psychiatrist, i think that

putin's goals for this terrible invasion and aggressive war have changed, now his main goal is probably to survive physical and political are two sides of the same coin, and all this is thanks to the amazing courage and efficiency of the ukrainian military and the national determination of the entire population of ukraine. putin received terrible advice from his special services at the beginning of the war he thought he would be able to win a quick victory by capturing kiev and deposing the government, instead he failed completely and now he is stuck in this war of attrition which he cannot win. and if he cannot win it, then the end is near, many analysts in washington began to say and write that they are considering the possibility that the entire russian federation will collapse, but the debate in washington has radically changed for the

better, they said something like oh, we will not provoke putin to escalate this war and he can use nuclear weapons and then even attack the territory of nato, and now russia will collapse as a result of this failed war, so i think that putin's goal in this war is to survive. for this, he hopes that if he throws enough russian soldiers into battle and even if dozens die and hundreds of thousands, it will not matter because in the end many ukrainians will die , the economy will suffer, the civilian population will not be able to take it anymore and ukraine will finally capitulate putin thinks he will find a way to declare victory, but this will not happen thanks to the military victory of ukraine and the solidarity of its friends and allies, we will see that putin will have to adjust

his goals and i assume that in the end he will say something like ok, we really won, we showed the west that we are not going to just stand by and let them take ukraine away from us destroyed the nazis, whoever putin thinks they are in ukraine, we rubbed the west of our noses and held some territory about whatever tiny piece of ukraine he talked about, giving it as a victory, and then he will move on if you live and think about how to return to ukraine in a different way in the future, but it will not succeed because russia will be incredibly weak at the end of its fiasco in this war. and in the united states, and in particular, in the headquarters of nato, they understand what is happening in reality on the territory of russia, in particular, it is about the formation of their military groups. and that what is happening in the kremlin, plus or minus, they have accurate information, i do not have access

to secret information that we previously had, but judging by the recordings of the conversations of russian soldiers on the battlefield when they call their families or talk to their comrades. i believe that nato headquarters and washington have a deep understanding of the terrible morale of the russian military and the fact that even the wagnerians complain that they are used as cannon fodder or that if they take a step back, they get a bullet in the back as in the time of stalin, everyone knows this, we constantly hear about it in the media, and based on my previous experience working for the government, there is no doubt that the usa and its nato allies know much more about what is happening in the russian army that what is happening inside the kremlin is much more difficult to understand because it is not easy to intercept the relevant messages, it is not easy

to penetrate the inner circles at the highest levels of any government, and even more so the russian one through espionage through agents who can visit and transmit information, but it is definitely easy to understand the pressure putin is under now, i can hear it myself from his own environment that now even at the level of ministers in russia, not to mention the oligarchs, there is deep indignation about putin putin, you have ruined our lives we will never be able live like this, i lived before, you are destroying the reputation of russia, i constantly hear about this state of affairs from various people, i even put it off because of this, i think that there is a deep awareness of how serious the problem is that putin found himself in. that is why i took such a hard position in this interview, which has already spoke in response

to your previous question. i think that putin's goals have changed and now he just wants to survive. unfortunately, i have to end our conversation with another one. i am grateful to the ambassador for this extremely meaningful and interesting conversation. i would like to remind our viewers that matthew bryza, ex-adviser of the secretary of state of the united states, former director of european and eurasian affairs at the us national security council, worked for them on the espresso tv channel. thank you very much . andriy piontkovskyi, a political scientist based in washington, will continue our analysis. glory to ukraine, andriy andriyovich. i congratulate you. on the air of the espresso tv channel, glory to the heroes good evening well, we see that the final synchronization of the civilized world, which is going to give extremely specific