for the value of life for the freedom of ukraine, the struggle is unequal - the overwhelming forces of the enemy who destroy everything in their path and our warriors with the overwhelming spirit of victory, love for the motherland, who reduce the number of weapons, made it impossible by drawing all the enemy forces on themselves and giving other cities time to prepare our soldiers made a great sacrifice so that we could be here with you , we can talk for a long time about the gilded mariupol of russia, just imagine that all the crimes of the world were localized, the state of looting, violence the use of the civilian qualities of the shield, the introduction of fire at civilian and critical objects , the killing of prisoners of war on the spot, for example, a confirmed fact is known: the azov citizen dan tsvnik, who was captured in april, who was tortured and sent a photo of his mother by the ovisets, all this would not have happened if russia had not come already in april finding a place, looking at the footage of the destruction of

mariupol and our relatives there, the four of them with the girls decided to go to the pope of rome's wedding to receive assistance in rescuing our husbands from hell, as well as a place with unshakable due to the conditions of existence, the evacuation of the heroes failed. russia, as usual, blocked any initiative, and then our heroes were captured by order of the higher command and one of the most tragic events in the history of our independent ukraine. olenivka, at least 5 azov fighters died and about 100 were wounded . a terrorist attack planned by the russians . everyone's desire to deceive the fairy tale about mars, the destruction of lives, this is what russia lives by, both literally and figuratively. but will the punishment of the guilty be punished ? the red cross still cannot appear in the camps for ukrainian prisoners of war, understanding the tragedy of the situation, we, as a small women's community, created an

association of families of defenders of azovstali or to fight for the rights of our men, and you know, i realized that the importance of the women's liberation movement for the lives of loved ones for the punishment of the guilty cannot be underestimated women who are waiting can reach at least mars, we can return our relatives, punish the guilty and achieve justice, the world should not stand aside when the geneva convention is grossly violated when in brave soldiers of azov steel are destroying prisoners of war in captivity live on air, especially those who are under the greatest threat in 2014, we saw what russia is capable of. how it behaves with prisoners of war, it is scary to imagine that something like this would systematically happen to about 2,000 azov steel soldiers in the civilized countries of the world, america, france, germany are still in captivity of them, almost all the cities, which is the most difficult, there are many wounded since the time of the azovstan or from torture, and there are also few women, i ask everyone

make maximum efforts and participate in the liberation of heroes from captivity, participate in supporting the families of the fallen heroes, supporting those who came out of captivity, that is why rehabilitation is needed, i think that mariupol has shown the whole world what these people are capable of who believes in the homeland, its freedom, who will never betray who will fight to the last for every piece of ukrainian land , and you know it is important to understand that the living must fight for the health of the fallen, for the wounded, and the free for the captured. thank you, glory to ukraine, i owe you what i owe thank you all and i want to pass on the floor to the deputy

commander, the officer, the hero of the steel heroes of the azov and forest regiment, samoilenko, call sign handel . i congratulate everyone, and i usually never prepare speeches. well , there is no need for that. today was also pleasant, i was surprised by this fact . i hope for today we were invited here not only for decoration, i hope and want to emphasize once again that we really are now in the field of the symbolic in the field of meanings when from the right position that forms actions everything else follows actions always fail with words and words are usually spoken very a lot of good, correct, worthy words should also be understood that these words should find a response from other people and be translated into action. i am a military person

. the war is ending, it will not end quickly, and the things we are talking about today are war crimes, torture, horrors that russia is doing. we saw it all in mariupol, we saw it all with our own eyes. we saw what military tactics are based on genocide, on the theory, on the destruction of the civilian population, because from a military point of view, their actions are logical, when you put the idea of ​​the destruction of the civilian population in your head, everything falls into place, that's how the russians act. well, you are all, you are all and so you understand, there is no need to focus much attention on this, but speaking about our actions, our actions, our unit, first of all, we will not stop until we get back our city, our mariupol, our home, we, we will not remain in history as heroes

one battle, all the battles are still ahead and i understand that for this we need to accumulate and unite a lot of resources, a lot of effort, people have the ability to exhaust themselves take care of yourself and do not exhaust yourself excessively because such a path will only lead in one direction, but distribute these resources optimizing them and using them correctly is our joint task with you. i see many people involved in the hall who are involved in certain different activities related to defense, keep your eyes open and understand what you are doing and the people are civilians it is also very, very careful to restore oneself, because unlike the 14th year, when patriotic fervor was enough there for a maximum of six months, people were blown away. now we really have a war of attrition and we do not have a program, we cannot lose in it we have no right, we have no

other we have only one option to choose - this is victory and you know at what cost it will be obtained because without ruthlessness towards the enemy it is good but it is impossible we ourselves can turn into people like them we can not forget that we humans cannot forget that we are alive and we have to stay, stay human, stay alive, that's why being healthy is cruel, it's right, but you don't have to increase your cruelty to the level where it eats you up. thank you very much, thank you very much . like a year ago, almost on this day, we gathered for a national round table and

we talked about mobilization, the unity of the country, the future, the desire to act and the readiness to resist, this is exactly what we will now have a conversation that will develop about what said oleksandra matviychuk's speech while our colleagues are helping. i would like to introduce the participants of our conversation, conversations about war victory and about the future, first of all , allow me to introduce yevhen zakharov, chairman of the board of the ukrainian helsinki union for human rights, volodymyr yermolenko, president of ukrainian, editor-in-chief of ukraine , walt valery baker, public figure , co-founder of the civic platform novaya

kraina, vitaly portnikov, journalist, outstanding ukrainian journalist and olena styazhkina, writer, historian, whom we are very happy about to see today with us, please, please, i invite you. please

, once again, thank you very much for accepting the invitation of the kyiv security forum. on october 10, the norwegian nobel committee announced the awarding of the nobel peace prize by three laureates of the ukrainian center for civil liberties and oleksandria matviychuk to the repressed belarusian journalist ales belyatsky and human rights organizations memorial as stated in the decision of the committee, the laureates have been representing civil society in their countries for years. they defended the right to criticize the government and defended the fundamental rights of citizens, they made exceptional efforts to document war crimes, violations of human rights and abuse of power together. they reflect the importance of civil society for peace and

democracy. it is very characteristic that ukraine actually received more than one nobel prize. and we can say that that these are two or two noted ukrainian organizations , the fact is that the kharkiv human rights group under the leadership of yevhen zakharov is also actually nobel laureate, since you belong to the family of the memorial, therefore, i would like us to congratulate yevgeny zakharov and the kharkiv group , and my first question is related to belarus, with russia, we see an atrocity, we see a real terrible atrocity committed against ukraine by russia and lukashenko, belarus, on your opinion, whether we will be able to punish this

atrocity, how and how to punish it, your word, thank you, danyla, i want to start with the fact that justice has no statute of limitations, and it should be clearly understood that all crimes that have occurred must be punished and in order to this happened must first of all be the hard work of all those on whom it depends to carry out this punishment, investigate these crimes, find evidence, collect them, come to court and, er, lead a competition, a trial, and pass a sentence on whoever is guilty of committing these crimes, and then i

can just talk for a long time about what opportunities are there for this today well, i will say very briefly, indeed, so many crimes have been committed that no law enforcement system in the world, including the ukrainian one, can cope with them, nevertheless, now it is necessary to do everything to record all these crimes, document them, collect evidence and gradually include it in the investigation process, it is one after another, one crime after another, leading to verdicts on the one hand, and on the other hand, it is necessary to expand the institutional possibility that it can be investigated and punished, what do i mean, well

first of all, it is absolutely necessary for everyone who is a victim in this war to make a statement about a crime to the national law enforcement agency, or whether the entire statement was entered into the unified register of pre-trial investigations and the victim received an extract from of this register with according to the testimony that he is the victim in this criminal proceeding, it is equal. today i had a meeting with the prosecutor general andriy kostin, together with my other colleagues. i was very glad to hear that he and you have the same view that it is not absolutely it is necessary to have such an extract - this is actually evidence that the person is a victim and in the future it is quite possible that such a situation will arise, such a situation that reparations will be

distributed among the victims and in evidence that this person is a victim already exists and that is why our work, the work of human rights organizations, one of the directions is to record these crimes, write in the evidence, find, write in these statements about the crime and get confirmation for the victims, but this is not enough. it is necessary that everyone all this information about crimes, all this evidence was organized in a single database so that it was possible to use this information for the investigation of more than 30 organizations of ukraine engaged in human rights protection united in march in the initiative of a tribunal for putin to some in particular, it is not civil liberties , the head of which lesya matviychuk spoke before you today and the ukrainian union

of human rights and the kharkiv spelling group and others and to date the database where they jointly document already contains more than 30,500 there are already quite a lot of crimes from public organizations, there is no more database we have agreed on cooperation with law enforcement agencies, we have already provided access to this database to all these institutions and they will be able to take information from our basis for the investigation , moreover, we are ready to help them in all investigations, to ensure the search for witnesses of the victims brought together with the investigators and others and to carry out other investigative actions together with the investigators of those investigative bodies that conduct them,

in addition, he noted that this kind of introduction to the investigation is all more and more information just makes it possible to expand the range of proceedings that are investigated and brought to court. but if it is only within the national law enforcement system, it will be quite long we support the position of the prosecutor general 's office in that, first of all, it is necessary to introduce priorities and investigate crimes related to the killed, wounded, those who were illegally deprived of liberty and subjected to torture, those who were abducted, and i must note that more than 3,500 abductions have disappeared in our database alone missing persons, all this should be

dealt with, and eh. i agree that this should be dealt with as a priority, but it's the same. if we expand the circle of those who are engaged in the investigation and eh and the court, eh, we will have a much better result. and that i i mean well, first of all, the very idea of ​​creating an international tribunal regarding the crime of aggression, which is the official position of the state, we fully support it, it is necessary, and we will see how step by step this idea comes to fruition, the second is that the courts other countries can consider these cases as well and this is already happening, it is known that 20 countries, 20 general prosecutors' offices of their countries are investigating crimes against their citizens, they can take information from us and bring

legal proceedings, and it should be noted that in some of these countries, they tend not only not to consider individual cases, but they tend to consider these things in a systemic way, let's say germany, an example of such a review is given by a teacher of the kingdom of the netherlands in the boeing case, and we have seen it all. that is, this is another resource that it is necessary to make sure that only other countries consider such cases. and using the principle of universal jurisdiction, they can also consider cases concerning ukrainians . well, the third one is much more distant , so to speak, in terms of the possibility of implementation one possibility is the creation of a hybrid tribunal, it is said that another division was created in the supreme court to consider war crimes, which was

created half from foreigners and half from ukrainians and would consider exclusively war crimes. i believe that the hybrid tribunal is very fruitful for the country but it rests , firstly, on financial issues - it will be quite expensive, and secondly, on the necessary change of legislation, if it is a matter of court, then it is necessary that it be, and investigations, er, carried out by investigative citizens of other countries that today the criminal procedure code forbids today only ukrainians can do this, nevertheless i believe that this direction has prospects and this is the meaning. we need to work in this direction. the main thing in this is that this is the issue of achieving justice, the issue of attraction to the responsibility of the guilty and the punishment for them, it entirely depends, first of all, on us , the more active we are, the sooner it

will happen, and i say once again that justice what are war crimes, crimes against humanity and others international crimes do not have a statute of limitations , and i also want to make one remark with your permission. i want to disagree with lesya with one thesis, with the last one. let our generation , she said, be the last that has to fight for freedom, human rights, and so on. well lesya is from the generation of children for me, so to speak, and as far as i understand and remember, there was never a time when it was not necessary to fight for freedom, for dignity and for human rights, and i do not think that all this will end with this generation, it will always be understood that it the opposition of the state and society is natural, any state is pregnant with violations

of human rights, and if it does not exercise permanent effective control over the activities of the state, it will inevitably fall into such violations, that is, this is a struggle for freedom, for dignity, for human rights, for the principles of law, it will well, in my opinion, it will always be up to us, it just depends on us to change these problems from today's level to another , more civilized one, because they note that in the countries of stable western democracies the same is true human rights are violated, and in the same way, in development, they fight to remove this violation, to reduce these violations, and so on. well, especially, it will be obvious if we remember that on february 24, our country, well, our state. sorry, it was not reborn. it was corrupt. it remained corrupt well, you

know, i'm just full of negative information about the actions of our state bodies in various areas of our lives. time because it was during the war violations, they acquire a much greater e-e influence, they e-e affect the victims of these violations much more strongly. war thank you for your attention yevgeny thank you and where is this balance where is this balance of our unity and readiness to stay together during the war and at the same time

let the authorities and society in general understand that the lines you just mentioned cannot be crossed - the first is the well-known principle what else in 1988, my teacher, to a certain extent, a close friend, serhiy adamovich kovalev, formulated it and he said that this is the principle, he did not formulate it in the same way, the joint activity of non -like-minded people in everything that i support the government and will support will i will work with her, i will help her in everything that i disagree with her, where she violates human rights, i will control her using all legal means. in principle, i believe that this is one of the main principles of human rights protection, which was and remains, so to speak, well... is

significantly in the conditions of war - this court really changes a lot for one simple reason . today, every time we have to think about or tell us about this or that violation. and how many such violations can the enemy use against our state and against our country, and therefore it will be necessary very careful in this sense to think 25 times whether it is appropriate to speak publicly about these or other things but if these violations are such that in our opinion , unfortunately, they rather help the aggressor and such er . er in year, we have to talk about it, publicly point to it and talk about the violations that occurred, i can give many examples. but i think that those who are present

understand what it is about, thank you. i think that this is probably where we differ from russia in the fact that we can say to the authorities what we think is necessary, by sticking together and unquestionably we will support our state in this fight against the enemy as much as you are certain i want to emphasize that we have invited representatives of the authorities to this meeting and i i hope that the broadcast of this conversation is the same today and is seen by many people throughout the country. my next question is to volodymyr yermolenko. volodymyr yermolenko is a unique person . as for my leading volunteers and i have a main question for volodymyr, we will now move on to the topic of foreign policy of international

relations. i see that volodya's opinion is important here too, i see that the world is trying to understand open for themselves, ukraine, a lot of intellectuals are starting to talk about the fact that this is the ukrainian century, the last article in bloomberg by john hopkins university professor he says that over the last 100 years, this is actually the ukrainiantury, this is the ukrainian century because, in one way or another, ukraine was at the center of all the main of conflicts and the presence of ukraine there, the role of ukraine was fundamentally important of a different qualitative role of ukraine in world politics and how to preserve this role after

our victory, which is inevitable, your word, thank you danylo, i was very happy to be here, the world seems to me to be very different, so we cannot talk about the world as such one unity er from one on the one hand, we can talk about the democratic, free world, and it seems to me that the western world also has its own phantom pains in western education, and this is its imperial past. so, this is the 19th century - this is the 18th century. these are actually very difficult periods for colonized peoples, and it seems to me that in recent decades, if this western world began to lose faith in itself, it began to find faith in the power of democracy, well, it began to lose faith in its military moment, so in fact, when we look at the western world, we will see that a series of defeats, defeat in cancer, defeat in afghanistan and so, how is it not surprising that ukraine now gives strength, gives a sense

of strength to this western world, it gives the feeling that democracies are strong, that democracies, when opposed to authoritarianism, can be strong precisely because they are democracies, because in in recent decades, we have seen such a thesis among western intellectuals that the problems of democracy are a continuation of the advantages of democracy itself, and this seems to me to be a very dangerous line gone. when in fact, democracies began to engage in such er-er flagellation of themselves, such masochism of themselves. it seems to me that fact what a smoke ukraine shows that democracies have strength that they can be stronger than authoritarian societies at least precisely because every citizen of democracies feels their strength yes this is what slava called you power without power. yes, this is a very, very important thing, but we must also not

forget. it seems to me that apart from this western world there is another world, what we conventionally call there the global south. i really don't like this concept because it simplifies it a lot and this world actually very often looks at us without understanding er not quite understanding ours because it thinks that the western world is imperial and we want to be the western world because we are also on the side of the empire and not on the side of their freedom and here it seems to me ukraine gives a very interesting experience, it shows how you can come out of the darkness, how you can come out of the absence of attention, nobody seems to have paid attention to you, that 100 years ago i was a famous phrase of wilson's wisdom when he was asked during the er during the paris peaceful peaceful process