a very, very important thing, but we should also not forget. it seems to me that apart from this western world there is another world, what we conventionally call the global south. i really do not like this concept because it is very simplistic and this world actually very often looks at us without understanding uh, not quite understanding our friend, because he thinks that the western world is imperial. and we want to be the western world, because we are also on the side of the empire, not on the side of their freedom, and here it seems to me that ukraine gives a very interesting experience, it shows how you can you come out of the darkness, how can you come out of the absence of attention, nobody seems to have paid attention to you, that 100 years ago, i was a famous phrase of wilson's wisdom when he was asked during the uh, during the paris peace process, what's up, what's up with the rusyns, what's up there with the

ukrainians he said that something is probably happening to the plants but i don't know exactly what it is that is, it was such a ukrainian issue it was not on the agenda now it is becoming on the agenda ukrainians are showing despite centuries forgetfulness or antiquity you can have a voice, and this seems to me to be the messenger of many countries in the social world, which also feel marginalized to a certain extent, so certain miro, forgotten and not heard , and this is very important to me. to our main and main allies, and this is very important, but we also have to find a language for those other countries, that is, relatively speaking, countries that take a neutral position in the voting of the un general assembly, it is very important to learn to speak with this in oleksandr's society eh i am very grateful for this formula eh ordinary

people who will earn extraordinary things it seems to me that we travel a lot now in ukraine, we go to the east and the south and we see it on our own experience we see those heads of cultural centers who were involved in the evacuation of people, yes, we see these volunteers who work near the front line and are involved in evacuation, bring people to kramatorsk slovyansk, we see the role of a person and his responsibility, but it is not only that distinguishes us from the authoritarian the world yes in the democratic world who says if not me the authoritarian world says someone but not me yes that is why it is such an outsourcing of responsibility someone someone else decides but not me but the problem is that it seems to me that the western

world is also going in a slightly different way and there is such a risk that you rely too much on something, on the institution, on the law, on the social security service, and so on. about humanity and about humanism and about human decision because you can wait decades for the decision of the law, and you have to make the decision of a person right now and the third and the third. it seems to me that the thing is, actually, the notes are a lot of such points, but the third thing is still very important ukrainian resistance shows that evil exists, it seems so strange it sounds like that

but again, the free world lived for many decades in the illusion that evil had actually been punished a long time ago, it was punished at the nuremberg trial and after that there were such variations some kind of evil, and they looked in front of everyone at that , will you not have some god forbid neo-nazism, ultra-right movements, and so on, and for us, in fact, for ukrainian people who communicate with the world, it is very important for us to show that and this is what we are trying to do many people say that the evil of nazism is absolute evil, but this does not mean that there is no other absolute evil. there are other absolute evils with other features. i formulated for myself how the russian regime, racism, as we call it, differs from nazism. there is a category of people who have the right to exist

and there is another category of people who do not have the right to exist, jews, roma, slavs, do not have the right to exist, the so-called aryans have the right to exist, the russian regime has been telling us constantly for centuries, for centuries, no one has the right to exist, no one does not have the right to life and only the putin party, someone there will decide who dies, will you die today or will you die tomorrow, and it seems to me that this very powerful necrophic character of this regime is what we also discover that evil is never really is finally overcome, what is constantly coming new and new types of evil. that is, this is a very moral question, in fact, i would stop at these three points, but there are many others that do not seem to you that we are now not just at such a decisive point of the situation at the front or a decisive point in general of what we all

each of us feels every day for many , many, many days, months, don't you think that we are at that defining decisive point in world history when whether ukraine will win depends on a great global historical development loss of ukrainian independence in the 1917-20s after the ukrainian national revolution, the loss of our independence led to much greater cataclysms. they sympathize with us

a lot, but not sympathy, everything ends. er, the front line and the cities near the front line, that is, he did not come alone. he brought a big fire engine to kharkiv and so on. that is, there are such people, there are such people who heroize ukrainians. i am not capable of this. i am not capable of anything. and the vyhir, that is, it is the desire to be in the party for a little while and to get carried away, and it seems to me that it is also very dangerous, in fact, but i still do not believe that when you sit at home and watch tv, you see in in principle , this message is about 2-3 weeks of dismissal in the spring, in the summer, and so on, i don't really believe in it

, because it really seems to me that this is for a very long time, and on a global scale, for a very long time , because what is happening, what is happening, there are epochs of structures and epochs of history, yes, epochs of structures are when the world is established, more or less ordered. international institutions and so on, the epoch of history is when all this is destroyed, we do not know where we are going, so when fukuyama said in 89 that the end of history, in fact, he did not notice that in 91, history really began and ended in his understanding of the word, that is due to the establishment of the institution, it ended after the second world war and maybe after the process of decolonization, the 60s, from the 60s to the 90s, there was no history, history returned in the year 91, he did not notice it a little bit, now it is accelerating even more, which

means that the structures are breaking, and on the one hand, ukraine is undoubtedly breaking the russian imperial structure, i am convinced of this i am convinced that what i am now russia is this syndrome of a wounded empire that feels its weakness and therefore becomes so dangerous was mussolini's italy or hitler's germany and so on, but on the other hand, what russia is trying to do, it is trying to destroy the structure of the world, and to some extent it is possible that it is also succeeding little by little. i absolutely support alexander 100 in that russia should be expelled from the un security council, but then this will mean that the un will not cover all countries, so that some alternative structure will be created. russia will work to create a conventionally speaking alternative un, where everyone will enter from the beginning . i don’t know what other countries we have

a huge part of the world that votes in a neutral assembly that is not structured in any way that feels like neither a part of the western world nor a part of the so-called russian world and they will build their structure most likely and most likely it seems to me that the xxi century will not be with that century of complete consolidation it will be for centuries, there is more and more polarization of the world, which means that the role of ukraine, without a doubt, is becoming key. it has already become key because the european world must understand that you can be in liberal values, the values ​​of protecting freedom, and at the same time talking about the fact that we must have military strength, be strong against the enemy, and have this ethic of battle, and not only the ethic of compromises to which they are accustomed . thank you very much. by the way, i want to say that we

have a free microphone and those i invite anyone who would like to ask a question with the understanding that the time limit for questions is two minutes, because there is a question for vitaly portnikov, in fact , what volodymyr yermolenko is talking about is that we are already living and will live uncertainly for a long time in the conditions of a major global hurricane and in these conditions it is necessary to be strong, it was not for nothing that we showed footage from the national round table on january 22, 2022, where vitaly portnikov spoke about the need to be strong, this is national internal mobilization, consolidation of the country, we dream of victory, we dream we are trying to bring this victory is done by our heroic armed forces, but obviously there must be some kind of internal victory , victory over corruption, victory over

abuse of power, victory over those who are weak victory over attempts to establish some authoritarian things in the public sphere. why do you think this is a fundamentally important internal victory that should make us strong in the face of a global hurricane ? a state of law, a state of civil liberties, a state of a free press, a state of economic freedoms, a state in which a citizen will be respected, because in the conditions of war, there is a lot of talk about the territory, however, the state is our people, for years they talked about small ukrainians as if there were some big ones now, if these small

ukrainians did not sacrifice their lives every day, every hour, every minute, i would like to ask where would be all these big ones who give orders and speak from video messages that sign the decrees and gather in the session halls , there would be none of them anywhere. the state is the people, and it is for these people that we build it and build it. by the way, as a shelter, as a shelter for ukrainians , our victory will be worth nothing. if this the state will not be ukrainian if ukrainian is not spoken on its streets if ukrainian culture is not developed if funds are not allocated for the development of ukrainian science and culture as a factor of civilization if people do not go to ukrainian churches then it will not be

a state then it will be simple conquered territory then we will be forced to agree with the president of the russian federation vladimir putin that this is a civil war and this is not a civil war it is a conflict of civilizations you know one of my colleagues said to me after the start of the war, commenting on some kind of speech before the war, where i said that a conflict is on the horizon, a big conflict, what a surprise that on february 24 all the crazy people turned out to be right but we were not crazy, we just looked at this situation realistically we wanted our compatriots to eventually start together live with us in the real world and get out of the world of those illusions in which the russian influence of the russian occupation settled them for ten years. the provisional workers' and peasants' government of ukraine, which will later proclaim the ukrainian ssr, was formed in kursk

a political party that was created in moscow and then everything that happened on our land was an imitation, a decoration, a simulation. you went to a russian school and your culture was not there, you went to the armed forces and defended the interests of a foreign state and a foreign people, participating in the occupation of foreign lands and subjugating a foreign people, you went to church and there was no god, there were only calls to work for the empire, aggression, but now, danylo, we were talking about the fact that we are in the center of a global hurricane, this is not the first such global whirlwind simply for centuries the ukrainian people precisely because they were rats occupied and weakened by a neighboring state were on the other side of history now during this

war why we and you compatriots are deciding a fairly simple thing on which side of history we will remain during this new clash of democracies and dictatorships we were on the other side for so many years despite the fact that the ukrainian people with their values ​​and their virtues and their historical desire for a discussion that started twice more what was here during the time of the kiev princes since those times i always wanted to be on the other side, and now people give their lives and their health in order for this to happen so that ukraine can happen, if we can not build a strong democratic and successful state in this situation, it will be a sentence for all of us and a terrible memory. to those who give their lives for this, you know for me ukraine has always been

primarily about the justice of my school years. when i see my classmates who came from kyiv from ukrainian cities near kyiv, they were russified when they were deprived of their language their identity and i always thought, how can it be if my people actually returned to the earth, where it had not been for a thousand years, rebuilt the state there, protected it at the cost of huge sacrifices, but i rebuilt it from i protected it, so it could be that ukrainians who live in their homes on their land cannot they cannot speak their own language, they cannot learn their own culture, they cannot develop independently, it is unfair, it is necessary to destroy the state that does such injustice, that is why when i saw people who were ready to destroy the soviet union dissidents from various countries of the former soviet republics supporters of democracy i thought that

all my dreams came true on august 24, 1991, one of my greatest dreams, but i knew that there was a long and difficult road ahead, that it was not enough to declare a state, it must be protected , few believed that what could happen to ukraine since statehood was declared with israel on may 14, 1948, and the war began in the evening, we were given three decades, not 30 hours, to prepare for war for too long, we wasted a large amount of this period. but now that we are in reality, we can make up for a lot, this is our duty to those people who will come after us. ukraine is a kind of coffee and an incredible civilization that has been developing and defending itself since ancient times and it is not like anything else

and to me it seems that at least for her sake it is possible to do this, by the way, this is a simple formula for this protection and this renaissance, which could not be uttered for quite a long time, but simply remember the formula of the person who essentially created this nation in conditions when the very the ukrainian people were denied a proper existence and there will be a son and there will be a mother and there will be people on earth where else could such words be heard about what our event is about oleksandra matviychuk and about the mission she embodies our event about the international recognition of ukraine our event about the punishment of russian belarusians criminals on our land, what yevgen zakharov said about our event about the

ukrainian century, which should continue in a new quality what volodymyr yermolenko said about inner strength and about another inner quality what vitaliy portnikov spoke about and this conversation is not complete without what valeriy the baker has to say, whom i would like to invite now to speak about what he does professionally, and he is engaged today in a very difficult, thankless, probably difficult job, formulating some basic things, elements of the vision of a new ukraine. i asked valeriy to share with us what he sees today thank you danylo good evening, dear society, i think that in ukrainian society there was no fear of military defeat literally from the first days of the invasion, but the fear one thing that permeates different social strata of society is common to all - it is the fear that

after the war everything will be as it was before the war. and this cannot be allowed, because then it turns out that everything is useless. and why should we talk about ukraine right now after the victory? four reasons: firstly, it is a picture of the future, it collects and directs social energy, everyone who is losing spirit, and this is today , everyone is taking a risk, and everyone, after seeing a picture of the future, can raise a little bit, secondly, we need to show a picture of the future to our international partners who will finance the reconstruction and modernization of ukraine, of course they want to understand what ukraine will spend money on . those who left will be taken here, and of course the fourth reason is that the window of opportunity

will not be too wide, it will be small , as always, one must be ready to implement all this, that is why there are a number of public initiatives aimed at understanding today, and not just understanding, but writing out documents of public policies and what will happen after the victory, and it was in this hotel today that a large process of dialogues about public policies began . meetings, and here in general there are a lot of people who participate and participate in this, which is why more than 220 public organizations signed the civil society manifesto declaration on the principles of e of post-war ukraine, the principles of ukraine after the victory, the so-called luhansk declaration well , because it was before the lugano conference , but i think you will like this play of words someday we will announce it in our luhansk, and

what exactly should ukraine be after the victory here, the important vision of millions of people and a- and in principle, after oleksandr matviychuk, there is little to be said here, it is obvious that first of all democracy, er, a small copy of russia will not be able to stand up to a large copy of russia, and i think we are all aware of the fact that ukraine has stood up because it is a democracy, because it is different in nature, and it is very important not to become a dragon after killing a dragon, but we are talking about the future of ukraine, let's talk about the future of russia, because a very important question arises. what is a ukrainian victory, and a strategy theorist is without allegard answered that victory is a peace better than the previous one. at least from your point of view, there is also a question. when will we return to internationally

recognized borders? her, and the masses of the population soaked in poisonous propaganda, precisely behind her machine, poisonous propaganda of the military-industrial complex , we go on like this, and this peace is like the previous one, and not better than the previous one, let's say frankly , ukrainian victory is when russia will never again threaten ukraine, and otherwise, it's just a truce before the next war, as between the first and second chechen wars, and in the best case, as between the first and second world wars, there is an opinion in ukrainian society that it is necessary to dig a huge ditch launch the crocodiles and let them do what they want there with this role, but i'm sorry, the missiles fly over the crocodiles, the crocodiles do not interfere with the missiles, and as long as there are missiles in russia, they will fly over the crocodiles, and therefore we have to say that it is

not enough to defeat russia on the battlefield, we must do so that russia has never again threatened ukraine, europe and the world. and for this, it is necessary to combine two more important principles, which oleksandra already talked about today: peace and justice, in the west you can hear voices that these things are opposites. if you want peace is told to us, forget about justice, do you want justice, forget about peace, no justice, this is drawing a line under the war that was, it will continue for many more days, and peace is what must be done so that the next war never happens, many european nations have such slogan never again and this will be the ukrainian slogan again , which means that not only but justice, that is, punishment for crimes of aggression, war crimes

, crimes of genocide, compensation for material and moral damages, disarmament and lowering the status of international organizations no justice is not enough measures are needed for sustainable peace internal political changes are needed in the russian federation which we understand very well is not a federation but an empire because it includes peoples we ukrainians understand these enslaved peoples because we ourselves have been such people for centuries russified oppressed oppressed driven to imperial wars of aggression and this is the overcoming of the russian imperial past in the history of information policy, this is the overcoming of stereotypes in western politics and diplomacy regarding russia, these stereotypes are known to everyone and still feed the policy of many leading countries of the world towards russia, and this, let's be frank, is again a change in the world energy balance so that

oil autocracies can never again threaten the world, this is part of the great phase transition of the entire society and, of course, what was already talked about today is the transformation of the international security architecture, and i will end with what may be inconsistent with my other colleagues, but this is my personal point of view. while the russian empire exists - ukraine is under threat, thank you, but only the peaceful decolonization of the empire and the reconstruction of the post-imperial territory on a peaceful basis, on the basis of de-militarization, de -nuclearization, the protection of human rights, and only the peaceful resolution of all conflicts, and only the implementation of the basic founding statutory documents of the united nations organization on the

rights of all peoples on self-determination, only this will ensure peace in ukraine, in georgia, in moldova , in kazakhstan, in the baltic countries, in the countries of central eastern europe, in all of europe, in the whole world, thank you valeria, not all for sure like-minded people in this thesis about the collapse of the russian empire, the most interesting thing is that this thesis is through and through for ukrainian political thought, starting from mykola mikhnovskyi, or is he from the founder of ukrainian geography, stepan rudnytskyi, a geopolitician who said that this is the key to the freedom of europe and the freedom of ukraine, there is another line of our meeting, it is the day of sobornosti, i was born in lviv, olena styazhkina was born in our ukrainian donetsk, and what valery pekar talked about is actually this thesis with which i would like you

invite russians to speak thesis about russia in fact, they understand everything perfectly i don't believe that russians don't understand i don't believe that all heads are washed by propaganda russians understand perfectly well what today ukraine should say to the russian world or can it ever be evil i could have said no and left, but on the eve of this event, i also returned from a trip where i spoke with our soldiers, including the question of what we can say to russia, what we should tell them, they asked me, dear people, if you see me, i am doing it to say the next best thing that we can say to

the russian people is that our weapons speak, and the more weapons there are, the more languages, uh, english, french, and spanish , the more languages ​​the russian people will hear and finally learn kill don't rape don't cross the borders and don't announce the territory i have an exact quote ah guns are the best explanatory dictionary for cannon fodder i did it i said it but i have to say about this topic a beautiful psychologist says that in order to diagnose a mental disorder of a person, you need to find a person, well