[000:00:00;00] the question of ownership goes in parallel and we see how elegant the ministry of culture is, no matter how much we criticize the minister, but how elegant a special operation was carried out on the upper part of the lavra when no one drove anyone anywhere, but simply sorry, dear friends , your contract has expired and the owner who is the state is absolutely not obliged it is necessary to rent out some identifications of persons, so we are calm without any noise. we got access to the upper lavra as a ukrainian church. the lower laurel and in parallel with our defense security council provides those legal mechanisms that have already been worked out in previous years regarding , i would say so, the squeezing of all these citizens from the territory of ukraine, we must remember an important thing, we must avoid accusations of our cheap ones who are still very different countries of the world in religious persecution, because this is a very sensitive issue

, as well as, after all, we must remember that in the church of the so-called moscow patriarchate . they also need to understand how and why this is happening, that's why in the complex it all looks very good, and as i said, i repeat , i really expect that 2023 will be the year when we finally get rid of any presence of the moscow church in ukraine , we have to wait a little more for a little time, i will conclude by saying that you asked me the law. right now, i think it is possible to pass a law . there is a certain legal and political debate going on there , because after six months of these debates, the cabinet of ministers submitted its draft law. i know that there is mr. knyazhytskyi's draft law which is a little different, but here the main thing is that we have the political will and the political consensus of virtually all political players that we will

do this. and it is extremely important to dance our conversation. how will the story unfold, so to speak, with the change of the ruling or powerful team, i.e. how far can everything go in this process and what do you think happened to the trigger i think the further along the more volodymyr zelenskyy understands that from the life of ukraine depends on cooperation with the west, without exaggeration what we told him for three years as the opposition that we should develop our relations with the united states of the eu, now it is clear to everyone that this is a matter of the life of the country , so we are really trying to do everything to meet the basic standards of democracy. i think the closer we are in the weeks, we will see a rotation in the ministries, we will see the rotation of some ministers, i do not foresee

a change of government, because it is unlikely that the coalition will have the strength to seek votes for a new prime minister, so i think that the sly will remain, but we will see many new faces both in the cabinet of ministers of ukraine and in state enterprises and state institutions. i think that this is only where the better, the more fresh blood there is, the more it will be, the easier it will be for us to go through these very difficult questions, just to understand what we are now we are observing that this is happening due to the organic maturation of this political situation in the country , is it possible that this is really a specific message from our partners? i think two in one this situation has survived in many positions and i i think our partners, who are very informed, were very clear in their position and it was actually publicly expressed, if you remember the terms of the aid package of 19 billion euros from the european union for this

year, the steps are clearly written there. that is, this is a model of cooperation with ukraine. ukraine is making reform changes. will receive money and i really welcome such a scheme, because no one will give anyone any money just like that, and that is also understandable. therefore, money in exchange for reform is a very correct approach. thank you, mr. andriy , an extremely interesting and meaningful conversation, andriy osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on law enforcement, let's move on 5:33 p.m. well, today the european court of human rights issued a decision in the great case about the occupation of the eastern regions of our country, this is a decision on admissibility for consideration of the interstate case and ukraine and the netherlands against russia, which is called the big case about the occupation of donbas and it includes three international cases , in particular, about the downing of

malaysian airlines flight mh17 in connection with us tetyana vysotska, espresso correspondent from strasbourg , tetyana, congratulations. we invite you to speak about viko, the full importance of this decision. yes, please. good day studio. decision, but the decision is really important because it fixed the date from which russia is considered to be the controlling state of the occupied territories, that is, the european court of human rights recognized that from 11 in may 2014, russia controls the territories of the donetsk and luhansk regions, which were previously occupied by it, in no international document did the date of the beginning of the occupation of russia appear, but actually there is one point here , because if we recall the hearings on this case

that were held last year in the fact that before the start of the full-scale invasion, the ukrainian side insisted a little on something else . the ministry of justice of ukraine made a proposal to determine the date of the beginning of the russian occupation of crimea in the russian occupation of luhansk and donetsk oblasts have been part of luhansk and donetsk oblasts since april 2014, and even the minister of justice denys malyuska told journalists at that time that there is no number , there is a month . tied to may 11, 2014, when as we know, the so-called referendums of the so-called dnr and lnr were held , tetyana's studio understands that the matter is extremely important and we hope that everything will

move honestly and most importantly, we wanted you quickly to ask about the atmosphere in the european union, connected, of course, with the fact that everyone has collectively dealt with tanks and sequestration, which are currently being discussed in the european parliament, and perhaps there is some additional discussion in various social groups , and right now, a session is underway in strasbourg of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, and uh, on the sidelines of the session, of course, all the talk is about tanks, not only peleopards, but also about abrams. actually, uh, now the question is not whether they will give or not, but the question when and how much and, of course, the representatives of the states that are closer to russia and closer to ukraine, that is, poland and the baltic states and the same finland, they are interested in russia and ukraine providing as much of this heavy equipment as possible so that

ukraine effectively defended itself, but for example, representatives of countries that are a little further away today, in fact, i have , for example, a conversation with several austrian politicians . therefore, it takes a lot of time to prepare the ukrainian military to use these tanks. in other words, it is not about providing them as soon as possible, but about some specific process that will last for months . now, these are the actual conversations that are being held . well, the main conversations are about tanks. let's think a little ahead, yesterday the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kuleba, wrote a post about the fact that the topic of f-16 with aircraft a-a is already under development. although there are signals from the same chancellor

of germany, olaf scholz, he excludes the supply of fighter jets to ukraine and the deployment of troops somewhere there in the future very clearly signals this or is it being talked about on the sidelines now they are talking about it and in fact, unfortunately, they are talking in exactly the same vein as the issue of the provision of aircraft by the national states of the european union do not consider it as serious because it will already mean the direct intervention of the state that provides the aircraft in the war with russia, and in fact , we do not want to do this any state measure so far, i was talking about the patriots about the tanks well, it seems to me, well, god forbid, if so, then we will wait in a while, there is already an announcement of news about the planes , thank you, thank you, thank you, tetyana, tetyana vysotska, our correspondent who works in the european parliament , let's move on. well, accordingly, an extremely

important story about the european court of human rights who is responsible for who allowed the donbass case to be considered by combining , so to speak, the three cases about the downing of the flight and the malaysian airline, in particular, and about the occupation of donbass, a very important date that was noted and the prosecution ukraine started suing russia for crimes in the temporarily occupied territories of donetsk and luhansk regions back in 2014. well, we will now briefly remind you what exactly is involved in the great case on the occupation of the ukrainian east, the case on the occupation of donbas, one of the five that ukraine initiated against russia in the european court of justice of human rights, kyiv accuses the aggressor of systematic violations of human rights during the occupation of the region, murder , torture, destruction of property, abduction of children, and the plane crash of the malaysian boyang are only

part of moscow's crimes today's decision the procedural judges of the european court of human rights only agree to consider the case on its merits, but it will mean that the international court of justice legally recognizes the fact of the occupation of donbas in the spring of 2014 and the responsibility of the kremlin for the crimes committed by women. after the start of the full-scale aggression, russia was expelled from the council of europe and now it does not recognize the jurisdiction of the european of the court . despite this, his decision is extremely important , lawyers and diplomats say, it opens the way to the satisfaction of thousands of lawsuits against the aggressor, which were submitted to the ukrainian courts citizens and companies, in addition to that decision, other international courts and institutions will also take into account. and this means that sooner or later the kremlin will be forced to compensate the victims of the occupation for damages, whether it is businessmen who lost their businesses in donbas or citizens whose homes were destroyed by russian

troops or taken away occupation administration well, the matter is extremely serious and we are now involving an extremely well-informed expert, a lawyer, an internationalist, an ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic crimea in the years 17-18 boris babin is with us glory to ukraine , mr. boris, we congratulate you as a hero glory to good evening well, what is espl giving the go-ahead to a great cause in the donbass, so just now we were watching the story, we included our correspondent tetyana vysotska from the european parliament, in your opinion, a similar case how long can it last and what consequences can it cause? well, first of all, it has already lasted a long time, because the first application was submitted to ukraine in the 14th year. i have some knowledge of the initial stages of this case , because in the 15th year, i am authorized by the to the european court, he took part precisely in drawing up the communication of part of the relevant

documents in the future. regarding the statement about the donetsk luhansk region, the netherlands also joined the case because this case covers the downing of a boeing, and the hearings in this case were held in january 22, and a year later we see the announcement of the decision, i want to say right away that in the following exclusion of russia for treason to europe does not in any way affect the legal force of this decision, does not reduce it in any way for the duration of the whole case. and at the time of the hearings, russia was an active member of the council of europe actively participated in the case, etc. regarding the very content of today's decision, it has two dimensions, in a narrow context, it opens the way for consideration of the interstate case on the merits, that is, after a certain time there will be

a final decision where the guilt of russia in the relevant violations will be determined, it is obvious that after the decision on admissibility at least significant part of the demands of ukraine, the lawsuit will be satisfied by the european court only within a time frame in a broad format, here we have even more important consequences, because the european court , in the conventional practice of effective control , which has become a part of international law for several decades, has recognized itself in the dimension of human rights, this is its competence that precisely the russian federation since may 14 effectively controlled, of course, the illegally occupied areas of donetsk and luhansk regions. first of all, it opens the gate for other international proceedings and it completely and utterly refutes all russian fakes

, including the entire so-called minsk process , including all the so-called alleged violations of ukraine's minsk process, because it is currently established that no fake ords ever existed, there was a russian-occupational administration, therefore, in fact, all the minsk agreements after today are a piece of paper like , well, sorry, the toilet is better, because this one can’t even be used, and this, in particular , completely enslaves all these pathetic attempts of russian propaganda to somehow justify their criminal actions in quotation marks, of course, to justify it because of alleged violations of ukraine, that is, in this sense, this decision is of fundamental importance for further specialized tribunals regarding russian aggression, which is already large-scale russian aggression, which is not covered by today's decision, they investigated the events up to 26 e- on january 22nd , that is, on the day of mr. boris's oral hearing. well, an equally important story is

the story about the tribunal. yes, we are waiting for the meeting of the un general assembly. its creation is supported in any case, your vision of the history of the creation of the tribunal, we see two such lines, the first - this is an international criminal court, the international criminal court has a proceeding that has all the appropriate jurisdictions and it will continue and i hope for a fair ruling by this international court regarding the war crimes of russia federation of ukraine, there are several statements made by several countries. sorry, they submitted this statement. the case will be considered not only in ukraine. the federation of the republic of belarus is probably involved in these international crimes precisely in this dimension , lawyers and internationalists have been constantly discussing

the creation of a special tribunal for almost a year . we have several national decisions in the parliament in support of this position , including the ukrainian one, as i recall. we have the position of the european parliament who also supported the approval of the special tribunal at the beginning of the year in london, a statement was announced by the number of international lawyers supported leaders of public opinion in great britain with a demand for the government and his majesty to also facilitate these processes as much as possible, here i would highlight that statement separately because it was, as they say, sent from the world's actual legal opinion on this matter and this discussion about how to arrange the tribunal is, among other things, under prosecutes, as they say, the international criminal court, because of course it is within its jurisdiction, at the moment there is no motivation to prosecute the cases that he, as an authorized representative , considered regarding the tribunal itself, there are

actually several options for its formation - this is either an international agreement between different countries of the world regarding the formation of this structure, or a special decision of the general assembly under the conditions of the security council due to the criminal position of the russian federation as an interested party that abuses its right to this. by the way, in general, there is no tofu for as a condition of these criminal actions in russia for the sake of homelessness, the general assembly can apply a special procedure that will be applied in the first year of the 10th year during the korean war . the question is raised at the level of the general assembly of the united nations, what level of support can we count on, because speaking out against aggression and actually voting for the resolution on the creation of a tribunal are slightly different things, and we have seen how actively russian lavrov has been flying around now the criminal

, the same africa, and we understand what they also received from him. well, you can look at this decision of the general assembly after its adoption, as they say, the ball is in the court of many civilized countries of the world. i think that they have much wider opportunities for dialogue than the government of the aggressor state, so here we have to observe first and then provide experts. well, the presence of the russian federation in the security council is a stage that must somehow be passed in order to reach the site of the general of the un assembly, correctly , of the un assembly, respectively, voting through the veto of a member of the permanent security council, mr. borys, good. here we take the following extreme scenario, they voted for the gen of the assembly,

a tribunal was created, and accordingly, how long could would the procedure continue and, accordingly, the consequences when it is not possible to drag the war criminals into an iron cage , so to speak, where, where, where, where would they be, the prosecutors, so to speak, beat the test of their absent conscience, let's see how it will develop. of course, i understand that this is clearly not one the day of the formation of the tribunal and its formation, the beginning of its operation, then at what stage this case will be resolved . again, we still do not see these documents , it can be either an international search , a special tribunal, or in absentia the proceedings immediately depend on the specific mechanism laid down in the relevant resolutions, although i want to emphasize here that in addition to the special tribunal, the procedures that exist again are the same european court, as well as the purely international un, where there are several attempts against the aggressor state, as well as several arbitrations regarding

russia's violation of international agreements and also an international criminal court they also together have an exclusive meaning, that is, a periodic decision will be international by definition, they will characterize and condemn russian, if not directly, then as the european court did today within the limits of the powers it has in relation to the protection of human rights, it comes and if we return to the question of the ecthr of boris, will the current decision allow, and we hope for a further decision in this complex case, ukrainian citizens and enterprises to sue for recovery of compensation for damage caused since may 11

, 2014 the events that happened before the 16th were filed on september 16, 22, but already today there are thousands of complaints. as far as i understand , individuals who were filed since the 14th precisely in connection with the context of the occupation of eastern ukraine are also very many statements submitted regarding the occupation of crimea, in these cases the relevant inter-state decisions will be of exceptional importance because they will justify the demands, because of course the european court will not determine in each specific individual case whether there is an occupation regime or not with an example of the regime of occupation it has already been established in this big case. yes, but according to other mechanisms, for example, according to the mechanisms of special tribunals and the international criminal court , the russian composition of the relevant funds is also not excluded , of course, the payment of reparations will necessarily be a consequence of the ukrainian victory, even in

the absence of decisions of international courts, this will be decided on e-e delict or contractual international level under any circumstances, that is, summarizing here , you cannot expect new claims to the european court, the old ones will most likely be won in other russian money is frozen in the west, we understand that the sums are considerable, we are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars, maybe there are additional russian cubes that are pushed around some additional offshores, but in any case, that is, can we find some mechanism that allowed us to get them to our budget, so to speak, there are several attempts to find this mechanism, we can see the debate at the national level in the united states, in other countries there is a resolution

of the european parliament and the same one that tells us that the appropriate mechanisms must be worked out, that is, the key decision here is actually for our partners, who either arrested or confiscated this money, and precisely the decisions of any international institutions that state the criminality and illegality of russian actions. they will be a very, very important basis in in this dimension, including today's cherry of the european court, and when roughly it would be possible to wait, well , according to the procedure, well, for the results of the relevant procedures, yes, well, the act of unprovoked aggression is obvious in its of time to the european allies, uh, they searched for two whole days. yes, until september 3, when france and great britain entered the war due to the failure of aggression on the part of nazi germany, we are talking about the year 1939, and we understand that the legal procedures can be very, very, very

extremely long and can be operationally clear and short, that's about temporary varnish as you see it, i can't give you a clear answer yet, because this is a matter of property and finances, and even a criminal owner of property and finances from the point of view of civilized legal systems is their by the owner, that is, this procedure should be an effective confiscation and transfers should be worked out in such a way as to make it impossible , for example, to make any lawsuits, objections , etc. the problem will be solved in a reasonable time mr. boris, taking advantage of the opportunity , i would still like to know your opinion about the processes that are currently taking place in our preparation for the substantive reintegration of the occupied territories, a little bit about crimea, please yes, because a certain information campaign

is currently underway about the year 2023 about the prospects of crimea in general this year and the return of ukrainian control , perhaps to the peninsula. people who were under occupation for eight years, this is very important. these are answers for them to the question of who the ukrainian state will consider them when it regains control over the peninsula in which in some cases i am a collaborator and in some cases i am just a person who tried to survive the occupation. well, and many, many, many different things. how would you rate the level of this preparation now ? are we conducting this legal and information campaign intensively enough? this is an obvious question for the leadership of the ukrainian authorities to the general staff of the ukrainian army regarding the processes of actual reintegration . this year, the legislation was also changed in our country

regarding collaboration regarding behavior in the occupied territories, and we in this dimension we already have examples of its application, because this year several territories were deoccupied where the russian invaders tried to criminally install illegal management systems and even declare a criminal attempt to annex these individual videos, and under these conditions, we see the work of law enforcement officers in the court of ukraine in principle a plus -minus the same thing will happen in crimea, the higher authorities of ukraine absolutely clearly say that there is no difference between kherson and principeropolis here, and in principle it is viva, so everyone who wants to know about further events after the de-occupation can see the register of court decisions, the report and the security services of ukraine of the state bureau of investigation, i.e. here, on what special issues, apart from the accumulation of judicial practice , the resolution of some minor legal conflicts, i do not see in relation to other dimensions. yes, there are challenges, in particular, regarding the issue of

civil-law relations here we have a huge such, you know so far about such a question, the status and regime of the so-called newly created property of all those objects that the russian federation has criminally created in crimea should be confiscated, of course, for the benefit of the ukrainian state, everything here, we have to work on special legislative acts as well. we have a huge challenge regarding the colonizers - these are the hundreds of thousands of people who live in crimea without having the legal right to do so, citizens of the russian federation who illegally arrived on the peninsula in fact, ukraine has the right to deport them here, there are two questions, the first question is our compliance with constitutional standards in this area, the possibility of announcing relevant deviations from separate standards according to international law. for example, international acts oblige to carry out a separate deportation procedure for each person. so it will be difficult that

also in this dimension, these courts will consider practical norms in order to comply with the norms of international humanitarian law and the general principles of human rights to take all appropriate measures to expel those illegally staying in ukraine persons to their historical homeland, here this dimension is really huge purely on organizational issues, because we have to do it as a civilized nation. thank you , professor, for this extraordinary, interesting and meaningful conversation borys babin international lawyer ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea in 17-18 years my colleagues and i remind you that it is necessary to help the ukrainian army in a few moments the verdict awaits you serhii rudenko i'm iryna koval mother wife host of espresso tv channel and i'm also a volunteer our soldiers at the front need a lot of things every day, and that is why it is part of my life. today, this is help

to the armed forces of ukraine, and i am very grateful to my colleagues for supporting me in this , of course, for a tv presenter, the main the job is to inform people as disgusting as possible as truthfully now it is mostly information about the war the war has entered the lives of each of us and we want one victory it we strive for victory with all our might we donate we buy walkie-talkies copters pickups armored cars and fairy tales you do it with your own hands and it will go to the front lines, it will save the lives of our soldiers, each of you can help , even a small contribution to the support of the army saves the lives of our soldiers and brings our