[000:00:00;00] holocaust remembrance day is commemorated all over the world, and today you can read more news on our website bbc.ua. also, subscribe to our social media pages, we are on facebook, twitter , instagram, youtube, you can watch our news graduates. if suddenly missed them on the air at 9:00 p.m. next time i'll see you on monday , we'll listen to people suffering from rheumatism and arthrosis and my grandchildren, my dear, and if you have time, your hands won't hurt so much to stick them on, but

yellow except dolgit cream dolgit helps eliminate pain and has an anti-inflammatory effect , my golds, everything is like this. we wish you health and the pharmacy of your family . that next week mr. mykola veresen will join us, we sincerely wish him to return to this air, we will continue this conversation with me with a welcome tailor, but not only with me. we will now have military experts with whom we will discuss

the situation around the coal mine and other important hotspots of this war. so, mykola salamakha, a military expert on armored vehicles, a former commander of a tank battalion of the armed forces of ukraine, and serhiy grabsky, a military expert, a member of a peacekeeping mission , a reserve colonel , congratulations, mykola, congratulations, mr. serhiy. after all, it is happening around ugledar, why do the russians need it so much , please, mykola let's start with you , ugledar, first of all, this is a key point in the plan and infrastructure, and it is also necessary to take into account that the ugledarka is a dominant height that does not allow the enemy to move further in the direction of zaporizhzhia . the fact that it will be possible to move successfully

in the direction of zaporizhzhia and achieve some success, but it is very difficult to say that leaving vugledar behind is also dangerous. then you can also concentrate a certain number of troops there and deliver a repulsive blow to the enemy. actually, the russian leaders who rule in the south understand this very well, and they will do their best vasyl in order to master the coal mine, mr. sergey, please. i fully support mr. mykola and it should be added that ugledar is not only of strategic importance , but it is important for the entire south, because if we look, as mr. mykola pointed out, there is also

a dominant height there, and if we measure the distance from ugledaren, for example, to such a location as in volnovakha or rozhivka, we will see that we actually keep this railway communication under fire control, the railway goes from mariupol to volnovakha, then turns to rozhivka, and we understand that this is the backbone of russian logistics and the railway itself , thus excluding the possibility of fully using this section of the railway, we we are talking about the fact that the enemy is significantly limited in its capabilities to ensure the supply and deployment of troops everywhere in the southern direction, because from the kherson direction, when we also influence against to leave crimea, in this way we reduce by 50 % the enemy's ability to deploy forces and means. and we understand that ugledar is actually the key, including for zaporizhzhia, because without the possibility

of deploying a sufficient number of troops in the water, talk about the possibility of an offensive in the zaporizhzhia area, first of all, and secondly, from ugledar, it also covers kurakhov, and in this way, if we are talking about the enemy's ability to break through there, it complicates our situation to the north of this settlement, and in this way, we can to talk about the fact that the enemy will try to fulfill his task, namely to go to the administrative borders of the donetsk region, which he has been saying since april, in principle, mykola , how can ukrainian troops stop this russian offensive in donbas now? what do you think you can do? the question of military equipment can be a question of increasing the number of personnel, what should it mean , the best way would be to strike at the enemy's security in the

area where he is not waiting for us. the communications that now ensure the offensive of the enemy in the area of ​​the eh and bakhmut and in the area of ​​the same there of the same red mountain are beneficial. actually, these are the directions . would be an ideal option. although there are certainly other ways, this is primarily the use of those artillery systems that we currently have , including high-marshts. well, and the use of aviation in order to strike at

the enemy's reserves at command posts and infrastructure in order to eliminate the enemy as soon as possible, please, mr. serhiy, this is absolutely correct, there can be no other option here, and we have to concentrate if we want to hold vugledar, we must understand that vugledar, as i have already said, is a strategic point of our defense, we must strike and not only the enemy is directly located in the forward detachments of attack aircraft, and it is very difficult to predict where to destroy his communications and destroy the approaches of the enemy and strike at the command posts in this direction the enemy can still er push and here we do it in principle, the principles of maneuver maneuvers of defense, i.e., moving from area to area, we will force the enemy to stop , go to defensive action and dig in . it is difficult to say how much the enemy will press, how much he will be able to develop offensive actions today, in

the first echelons of the enemy's offensive, there are marines, that is, they still have offensive potential , it depends on our well-thought-out coordinated and multi-level actions how we will repel the enemy on it is quite difficult for this particular direction to go around there because , uh, you know, we are on such a certain ledge and maryanka is hanging over us, there is no fighting , serious battles continue to be fought , the enemy is definitely aware of the importance of soledar. simply could not maneuver and, you know, create such a hovering over them over the ugledar in order to bring us back from this location, but we understand how important it is, so here you know how it is it does not sound bitter, direct confrontation and the stability of our troops can also solve

this issue and hold ugledar, how much, mykola, in your opinion, have the battles for soledar and bakhmut now exhausted the russians , how much has it exhausted us? at the time of these or other forecasts, the one who defends usually bears losses approximately three times less than the one who advances, if we take into account that the russians did not already have the total victory in the wartover that was in the first month of the war and eh in that number and presence of various means of support on the battlefield, that is, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, and i acted against them no longer as part of battalion tactical groups, but in groups of 30, 20, sometimes 10 people, then i think that at least the losses of the enemy

probably altogether 3-4 more and we are probably talking about at least one and a half and two tens of thousands of people in those battles, well, actually speaking for bakhmut, because they have been going for more than one month and soledar is also about two months of battles already in the area of ​​soledar and we made quite a significant impression in terms of manpower and including when there was an opportunity to use armored vehicles and the enemy used them. we also quite successfully destroyed his armored vehicles, mr. serhiu. well, here we need to add , you know, the broader picture, and in my opinion, but i say once again, this is my assumption , what exactly they are so desperate because she was shut down. dar and bakhmut allowed us to gain time , what i am actually leading to, i was talking about it, i can do one more

, just once again i will bring my daughter's point of view. we remember that before the new year, minister reznikov announced that on the fifth unfold new wave of mobilization is unconditional, we can assume with a fairly high degree of probability that the enemy anticipated the announcement of a new wave of mobilization against the background of some victorious company there in the area of ​​soledar and bakhmut, we are talking about the fact that the enemy was concentrating additional forces in the belarusian direction and at that time we were talking about the presence of 11,000 russian servicemen there and the further deployment of these forces and means in belarus could lead to a chain reaction, you know, the beginning of mobilization the defense of soledar and the continuation of the defense of bahmut actually thwarted the enemy's plans, in my opinion, and forced them to abandon the idea of ​​deploying a reinforced group in belarus, and therefore, let's say practically all

analysts and all analytical publications say that the threat of an offensive from belarus in in principle does not exist today, we emphasize that today, moreover , according to the latest statistics, which we receive regarding the number of russian troops, half of the 100 contingent that was located on territory of belarus, he moved to the east, and this may be a confirmation of what mr. mykola said that the enemy suffered such losses that they forced him to reconsider his plans and forced him to deploy additional e-e units in order to at least maintain a certain pace of the offensive on the bakhmut direction , this is the first from the point of view of the use of military equipment, the enemy was forced to engage in very significant and very exhausting defensive battles on the streets of the city, and it must be understood that the defenders,

as already mentioned, have their own the advantage is that they can strike the enemy from protected positions. well, the fact that we have been in recent days , you know, we have to monitor such a certain media factor . we are not talking about any active actions of the e-e group of the wagner private military company. or information, and once again about the fact that the wagnerites suffered such losses that they lost for a long time were the ability in any case such a strike group, an assault group of e-e units as the wagnerites was quite a serious force, although it is light infantry but this also significantly undermined their ability to continue hostilities, according to some information, there are actually tens of thousands of dead, and thus we say that one of such relatively combat-capable units of the russian

of the army, well, such that it is non-standard, and i will say yes, the neutralization of the unit has a certain significance, and who knows how it will work already in the next stages of our war, including for the development of the internal political situation in russia the federation, after all, we understand that wagner, i'm sorry, prigozhin did it actually under himself, and such an undermining of his defense capabilities, the ability to influence the situation is also worth a lot. and please, mr. mykola , tell me what happened around the tanks. which fluctuated for a long time, well, actually speaking, germany still fluctuated not just because it is critical for it to transfer or not to transfer , well, first of all, it is probably those where the opposition to its bundestag and actually

saying that the decision to transfer tanks to export is all the same decision that the members of the bundestag took the first time, it was not possible to do it, after that they failed to do it, they sent this issue to the committee for consideration, but also the pressure of voters inside germany and international pressure from the allies of the political elite in most countries still led to the fact that shultz probably had to hold some negotiations and meetings in line in his party with deputies and the decision was to transfer nothing, and then see them britain also encouraged, so did the united states of america and france. and now there will be a lot of competition, first of all, among

those countries that have powerful engineering. these are the pluses that practically all tanks and tanks get. they have very serious and western -style paintings. they are technologically ahead of russia by at least 10-15-20 years in the field of tank construction. that is also the fact that germany gave permission for export and immediately was reflected in the value of the shares of rhein metal on the world exchanges. serhiu a, please tell me in principle. so when they say what is needed in order for this supply of tanks to work , a large coalition of forces is needed, how much can this coalition really be formed , how large is the number of tanks, the president zelenskyi talks about 300,500, so

it seems that he can count on ukraine. you know, this is a very serious challenge regarding the number of tanks , because let’s put it this way, if we turn to completely open sources, we will see that germany has approximately 340 tanks in its supply, this is great britain 266 tanks, and i did not track the figures for spain and france, but due to the fact that europe and the civilized world were not preparing for such a war, the number there and the number of tanks to date is very mykola will probably agree with me that lifting tanks from storage is a rather expensive procedure and requires quite serious efforts, and the most important thing is time, so it is not only about transferring to us , for example, abrams leopards leclerc varies there, is it even possible to assume that it is about the transfer

to us, including post-soviet tanks, and i emphasize this why? tank main battle tank , then accordingly it is not marked with the appropriate control systems and even the 72 that poland transfers to us, in particular, we are talking about a solid tank, then they already meet nato standards. thus, we can say that if we if we are talking about western-western equipment, then of course we are talking about dozens of those tanks and they can be reinforced with western-eastern equipment if i allow myself such a statement and in general, we can in principle reach three hundred tanks, taking into account the fact that -e, the competition is really developing very seriously today. and let's be honest, well, during the last thirty years, the world community did not pay enough attention to the construction there, so now there is

a unique e-e case when you can really test new concepts of tank construction and unfold uh. as they say, a new era is being built there, and here you know, well, direct benefit . i would say that whoever achieves certain results first will be on the horse and in the future not in a year, i repeat not in a year. maybe in the future in a few years we can see absolutely new equipment that appeared as a response to the challenges of this war, a response to the confrontation with the russian mass tank attack, for sure mykola , the question here is the timing of the truth. problems need to be repaired, these tanks need to find ammunition for them, by the way, just today, brazil refused germany ammunition for leopards for political

reasons, because the president of the de silva club is known for his good relations with putin , when is the first batch for 300 risers, which fedorovych is diligent, that's all 2-3 months and that's about uh-uh 40-50 t-72a tanks from the czech republic uh-uh, that's probably the 60 pp 91 solid tanks from poland, that's 14 challenger tanks from great britain, i suspect that after all er, 14 leopard 2a6 tanks from germany, er, how will holland act, how will it quickly pay for the titans that they are currently using under the leopard

2a6 leasing program, er, they are also german tanks, but they are leased in the netherlands, so it is possible, that is i suspect that after all, in 2-3 months, we will probably prepare personnel for 150, maybe 180 tanks, and we will receive 150-180 tanks. okay, at least 5 motorized, mechanized or motorized infantry units are in stock which tanks will come from battalions. well, i think that within three or four months we will receive a complete battalion set from the united states of america, and it will probably still be an abrams one a2 in some of the versions, which one is not yet clear, but the battalion set for

maintenance vehicles, these are combat repairs, evacuation vehicles, this is in addition to banks and the training of specialists, which i suspect is already starting now. and tell me, please, mr. serhiy. and what do you think about airplanes? today, we heard the statement of the minister of defense of the federal republic germany's boris under the story exactly about the fact that airplanes no, in no way can even talk about it live. these are completely different cars, but there was also a conversation about tanks, you know , after tanks, i have no doubt that we, what about airplanes. this is a matter time i am absolutely clearly aware of these challenges that exist on the way to obtaining aircraft i am absolutely clearly aware that this will require a lot more time and resources because, well, let's put it this way, even the requirements for airfields, uh, for western-style airplanes

, they are a little different, we will have to from zero to fully deploy the system of maintenance of the airfield, maintenance of operation, repair, provision of weapons, deployment of e-e systems of material support, and so on and so on, that is, in fact, what we do not have, and of course it will take more time because, you know , it is one thing to train a pilot, and our pilots learn enough quickly, but another matter is that we use these aircraft efficiently and qualitatively , and this is precisely the main challenge, in fact , this also applies to tanks, why did i specially emphasize that it is one thing to talk about western and western models, and it is another matter to talk about familiar and well-known eastern models, er, we will say this. therefore , first of all, there are no doubts that we will receive planes , because objectively, during the conduct of hostilities, we lose or lose planes or is it aviation it just wears out, it becomes obsolete and simply becomes unusable, so there is no question of whether we will have planes or not, which ones, that is, i would

not cycle everything exclusively on f16, there are other options , possibly intermediate options and saving dates on warthogs or something that might be useful to us, but there is no doubt that we will get airplanes. and what do you think , mr. mykola, do you believe in airplanes and i believe in airplanes why? because when it came to tanks some months ago when i said that we would get cars from the czech republic, for this, most of those with whom i had to talk said that we will get czech t-72 machines, i said. no , guys, there are still 180 machines. well, what other country has contracted in principle, but i suspect that they will still end up in our nenets in ukraine, it is still the same now, but 7 months have passed since then. so, i think that

the process that began not even the day before yesterday with regard to airplanes will reach its logical end, and maybe somewhere in 8-9 months, maybe a little earlier, we will all - we still get the planes that will be. well, maybe not from our airfields at first, but we will have to go all the way in order to move to a completely different level of aviation. of this program, i want to turn to another guest of ours, this is the people's deputy of ukraine, the head of the committee on the integration of ukraine into the european union , ivan klympysh sensad, welcome to mrs. ivan, i congratulate mrs. ivan

, you can't really hear ivan , you ca n't hear me. of today's statements by the prime minister of hungary, viktor orbán , because this is not just some statement, it is a detailed analysis of the political situation, and when orbán compares ukraine with afghanistan, why does he do what you think? i'm sorry we don't have mr. ivana at the moment. we talked with her about the interview that the wife of the president gave to 15 journalists, prime minister of hungary viktor roba, he talked about how he sees this situation in russia's war with ukraine, he talked about how he can

uh, this situation will change in the near future, he believes that putin will never give up on uh , victory over ukraine, mrs. ivan ivanovych , can you hear me now, mrs. ivan is gone, and this is quite an important moment, because we, uh, you and i realize how difficult things are now in general, relations with the european union want in that hungary is constantly blocking all packages of aid to ukraine hungary is constantly doing everything possible to block part of the sanctions against russia, but now when a new package of sanctions against russia is being prepared, hungary says that it will do everything to block this package if

there is talk of nuclear energy and we are with you we perfectly understand that this is essentially lobbying for russian interests, it is not happening in vain, it is happening because viktor rorban is economically interested in cooperating with volodymyr putin to do everything possible so that vladimir putin could somehow endure these sanctions and this war. putin is one of the few authorities, one of the few western politicians who regularly visited putin before the war. means means that

hungary has a lobbying interest. i am in touch, it is possible. that way, everything will work out . let's discuss these statements . urban how do you perceive them, unfortunately for me it seems to you that he is just continuing his political game. and what he is trying to do. unfortunately, he is trying to sit on two chairs and at the same time enjoy all the advantages of the free world and be part of the north atlantic alliance and the european union at the same time playing the game that putin is trying to impose, and he cannot help it disturb in my opinion , it seems to me that these exponents of russian ideology are in the middle of the free world and, unfortunately , they are destroying a very large number of opportunities

for the free world to act faster in order to to prevent a real, serious catastrophe, to what extent do you generally think that urban can analyze the situation realistically, do you think that in his words when he says that putin will not back down, that he needs to win the elections, there is some kind of logic, well, look , you and i will also understand that russia has definitely not given up on no plans of their own, and in ukraine they don’t have any other . well, the goal hasn’t changed to destroy us as a people , to destroy us as a state, to destroy us as a society that has its own future and your own future, different from russian apiaries federation well, maybe you know in any approach to some position there is always a part of the truth well in this regard and then he will not back down until he, like me, is