[000:00:00;00] no, the same person has been standing for more than 20 years, i won’t even call her a person, mr. vitaly, what can you tell us as a psychologist about putin’s portrait, psychological, what kind of person is he, he is an ordinary person who was changed by the government, don’t you know there, you know how there was a movie born there killers natural bon killers, who are they, you understand, any er, relatively speaking , er, even in such a context, i still have to adhere to certain such er , clinical research ethics in the sense that we can't throw around diagnoses, because that 's all too you know this method of mastering of one's own anxiety and you know well, it can be somewhat unprofessional to some extent at least on the other hand i am sure that this is my personal

conviction that any person who is in power or any public person is always such a socio-psychological phenomenon in which over time is very difficult to find what is personal, inherent in this particular person, what is already the result of psychopathology due to some reasons. politics as about the politics of a pervert, i.e. a person, a system of a group of persons who uh, um, as the main idea of ​​perversion in clinical psychology , there is a lot of psychology, or more precisely, psychopathology

is the idea of ​​coming somewhere with one's desire and imposing this desire. you know well, look, um, conventionally speaking, you know how to say the discourse in relation to us, yes , there are 30-40 of us, how many millions of us are definitely called uh, nazis, nazis , and then we are all called nazis, and then the popes there connected it to the minister, the wave of this propaganda after the mobilization of the pope begins to call us satanists. that is, this is such a desire. well, not that humiliation, but simply general devaluation of such a human organization, and that is why here we can talk about such a perversion, here we can talk about absolutely constant such flirting that is, you

were able to and we will be able to, but in the end we can. tell me, please. we will demonstrate it. life puts the government and keeps this power, that is, you know, there are people who are proud of the fact that they have held a position for 10-20-40-50 years and whatever, that is, we can absolutely understand that from some period , everything has already been pathologized, because for that in order for what i said at the beginning to maintain the idea of ​​the permanence of power, the immutability of power, for this you need too many manipulations, too much such non-human cynicism, cruelty of anything , this unwillingness to dehumanize the object that

is opposite you, that is, in all of this there is nothing human in general, and that is why you see how they treat us very simply, like a territory, we have to capture this, it is ours , it is not our resources, what are the people, what is russia , what surprises me about this state is that, er, hmm, because a colleague, a political scientist, would say more precisely but there were three completely official steps by russia. at that time, the rsfsr was still a republic . yes, in a referendum, the russians testified about their desire to leave the soviet union, and they approved it there . i don’t know what it’s called correctly, well , a referendum, then it went to the state duma. or how? it was there, that is, you can imagine what is going on, what is the curiosity of this russian phenomenon is that people 30 years ago made their own choice and now they are trying

to explain that it was not them, that is, these people who are now nostalgic , who i have friends who spent 3-5-10 years in prisons there. well , they are just there for some of their er-er wishes, and now when they remember something , they even remember this prison with warmth, somehow they have something for the new year very cool sat still there some lives are a part of life. and here is the nostalgia for the soviet union, for the soviet union , and imagine who is nostalgic now, it is actually the most politically active people who 30 years ago were 20, 30 , 50 years old. they destroyed the soviet union themselves in the referendum, they themselves were proud of the fact that they did it and they dreamed of a new russia and many other things, and

therefore it is very difficult to talk about the russian discourse in general in order to understand it and hope for some kind of common ground understanding, that is, look at me now. and you seem to hope that i understand you as you understand me absolutely. but in this version, when people who, as they say, develop first, first destroy their state, then they mourn it, then they try to return and change something there people in an artificial way so that everyone will again become like they were at the moment when they themselves killed their own state, that is , a figure like putin usually appears here

, like any other. by the way, it could be that this whole ideological shame somehow between to tie together to bind and hold guilt with 40 guilt and shame - these are the key things, mr. anton, ah, i want to ask you how many times, how many projects, conditionally i say russia was for if, if the first project was conditionally the soviet union well, then he died there in 1991, and since then, in your opinion, how many such visions regarding the development of russia have there been in russia, you know, in political theory, there is, let’s say, a lot of speculation, contradictions regarding precisely the definition of the ideology that makes today this russian regime, that is, it is different approaches er well, the discourse is realistically justified. however, i consider such a thing, and here, by the way, i will complement my colleague if well, what i said about the lack of recognition of the security system is as an international specialist, i understand it, but if

we talk about the ideology of society, then they are actually contradicting themselves in everything, eh. in what sense, look at one side , the head of the kremlin says that he insists on the soviet union, it was a great power, but excuse me, the soviet union - tsarist russia never propagated more than that, that is the architects of the soviet union in their time first destroyed russia, they killed, they killed the royal family, they completely destroyed the power of the working people there, and it went away , that is, they tried to create nostalgia for the soviet union. according to different insiders, even before the war, they said that , for example, putin has a portrait of peter the first hanging in his office, because he actually created

the empire, and then he fought with the strongest by european armies, there is also the concept of the collector of lands, this is from peter, so absolutely, because the soviet union, if it is an official document, and you can read it, there, in general, slightly different things were written than the history implemented, we on the mountain were still a measure of the state , two examples of the illogicality of coexistence that is, if you are the soviet union, why are you propagandizing the tsarist history, then to this is added the fact that it turns out that russians have their roots in kyivan rus, and on one of their public television projects, by the way, they are already yaroslav they tried to recognize the wise man as the best or strongest russian, yes. that is, you decide where you start from, and the fourth is the religious aspect. they propagated to us in ukraine that moscow is the third year there yes yes. and who declared that russia is a muslim state? that is, you decide. christians or muslims

, that is, they have created a very powerful collective spectrum, from the color to the choice, as they say in lviv , choose what you want, the question is why the value is valuable, it does not match, that is, they are trying to capture both this electorate and this and this and to reach you and find you, it says one thing that in fact the goal is the government, that's right , they don't give anything a pill, and the government is for what to privatize the state-owned nadra, oil, gas and much more, it's very simple, but look, but it's a very important thing, we all think that there is putin is some kind of big politician and so on, no, he simply enriches his pocket at the expense of power for many, many years, that is , he even has all these stories out there about , you know, the redistribution of the world. well, when the president

starts thinking about big things, when he has the state or he personally has a lot of money, and then i don’t think at all or at all about the wet one, it became a lot of money , i started thinking and how would i like to enter history? to be a mistress of the sea is absolutely true, but he didn’t add that everyone knows that this means the end of this fairy tale , gentlemen. if we talk about phobia or russophobia, yes, ukrainian russophobia is a reality. does it exist in our society? - you can do it here first try to define what we don't understand by this, so to speak, but there is a very simple thing, there is an absolutely, uh, open rejection of russia, how are we not talking about things that, by the way

, lately they like to raise there about culture, about tchaikovsky, about pushkin, about some other things things, i.e., dostoevsky, i.e., well, even this should be touched upon in the sense that it is culture, it is literature, etc., and now we are talking about very simple things that are related to the fact that those who, relatively speaking , are my cousin, cousin or cousin one night he runs into my house, starts killing my children, my wife, explaining it by the fact that there are some people there, he thinks that they are threatening me there, are they somehow making my life difficult, that is, the very fact of that, i don't want to talk about ethnogenetics, about the tendi people and how related we are are they not related in what time perspective , it doesn't matter, everything changed already on the 24th, even for those people who were still running there, they measured who

, how much, who, what kind of relatives you are, where and now everything has already changed because of what is happening now this is absolutely in ukraine, even a soft scenario, a variant of the fact that we have not done anything for them, they hate us more than we who are now defending ourselves . i will refer to the historical aspect. and i would like to. i asked this question. bearing in mind one more thing, the statement that the country actually has the right to a certain russophobia simply because of a traumatic experience, a historical dramatic experience, then you see the topic you touched on, i might as well have remained silent hmm

i will say that in ukraine, because of russia, during the last two hundred and three hundred years , there has been a double traumatization, i am reacting to it this way, and this is my theory, maybe even it is like this, you know, my colleagues will not accept it, or i am now putting some uh labels labels on myself, but there are very- a very important situation yes, but still, i will say that there is such an important situation that relatively speaking, the primary traumatization of ukraine by the kremlin in any of its guises is very well-known, it is the ban on the ukrainian language - it is the holodomor - it is constant encroachments on technology, well, everything simple and literal, real concentration camps, labor camps, collectivization, what else was there, etc., a road accident, and this is a very strong trauma, it is absolutely clear , that is ,

any trauma is very automated. the double traumatization of ukrainian society when the people who survived their children and grandchildren became communists. do you understand this, by the way, the experience and this moment of double some kind of such a break or some such incomprehensible agreement on something because not everyone you understand that the vasyls became stus, and that's why the majority did not become them at this very moment, and this is exactly the moment that should and shame we talked about in that joint discourse on the soviet union, and why before the broadcast, when we talked, i talked about this post-colonial syndrome. the fact that it still makes us vulnerable to russian aggression is this post-colonial syndrome, which is precisely mixed with feelings

of shame and guilt from here. the heroism demonstrated by ukraine as a whole, the armed forces, they help us believe in the heroic past of ukraine , something that even we sometimes accepted with a smile, when they told us something about the cossacks, some others thought it was a little exaggerated, but this is now, if we can compare what is happening with our own eyes, we are more willing to believe in the heroic past, and these two temporal parameters , the past and the present, allow us to enter into a normal discourse, the nation of creation, this is a very important moment. i would like to ask mr. anton and if we talk about such an experience

, do you have any analogy, was there something similar somewhere in the world, is our experience unique, you know, this is a wrong approach , many many researchers when they try to make some analogies, i.e. journalists no, i am not to you i i understand that you also analyze the information that is in the mass media, you simply read the literature . for example, i am not a fan of drawing analogies , so why? because you know. the hundred years' war between england and france. france and germany, however, today, all of these nato member states are fine. here is what i am getting at. my colleague very, very systematically explained the psychological aspect in answering your question, and from a political point of view, i can tell you that there was no morbidity in ukraine in the official state policy .

anti-russia has not been building since 1991, what are the questions for us, we announced that we do not encroach on anyone's territory, ugu. we didn't start in 1991 to say that the kuban should be returned, no absolutely, we pretended we wanted to they tried to throw you . they shot bohdan khmelnytskyi there. no, it was not like that, that is, one part is the fact that in society and how many marriages between ukrainians and russians were mixed in marriages and so on, and the other thing is how the state carried we carried peaceful coexistence, and in the 1997 treaty it was written that relations should be mutually beneficial and on the basis of mutual

respect. that's why we carried no antagonism and political decisions and the formation of, let's say, a foreign policy orientation, frankly speaking, not always it comes from, let's say, from the middle of society, and very often it comes from the point of view of the foreign political situation. that is, you answer the question in what form we can preserve ourselves as a state if ukraine in 1991 declared itself to be taking a course on nuclear weapons, we would be like north korea, weapons for the kuban means uh, that is, who in the world would not support turkey and let's give historical memory, let's be honest, you saw the minsk agreements, they were supported by the united states, they were voted at the un security council, have you seen the policy regarding crimea, that is, well, in reality , president zelensky, in the 21st year, created

the crimean platform, before this, from the 14th year, this platform did not exist, that is, what i am leading to is that the external elites who could support ukraine they are real in the struggle against the racists. they did not instigate this struggle. but today, when they saw the heroism of the ukrainian people, the heroism of the ukrainian army, that the leadership of the state did not flee from its state, that ukraine can resist, can win . the status of ukraine is correct, trust in ukraine and faith not only of the population in our heroism . the discourse is real. that is, it is the discourse of the elite. well, with all due respect, i am normal. it is the fact that

elites have existed for several centuries and they help themselves to take responsibility for decisions and responsibilities. it is these elites, in my opinion, at least in the political sense. yes, i am purely about the police. i would like, after all, we have such and such cookies, you know, a patchwork patchwork quilt turned out like this and in fact it was intended to be so well, because we, that's why we called a political scientist and psychologists here it's very difficult seriously i feel completely out of place right now but it's very interesting what we in ukraine and ukrainians should do with this before the start of the recording, we talked a little about the future , how do you see the future of ukraine from the point of view of a psychologist, professor ?

this is a product, but i don’t know how to think or design. if you want, the roots of the future are here in my head , and looking at what is in the minds of ukrainians, what is the future waiting for us, and in fact, how would i say it? you know, i still have say as a psychologist, a psychologist will answer you that we don't know, both scientifically and well, that's the main thing. because you know, they always try to make a person out of which you mention anecdotes, and you remember how in your childhood, once before, this lyakhvushka through the village was inflated like this. i didn’t participate, but the same thing happened and sometimes people are inflated, er, or something, i don’t know ambitions like neighbors and that they are at once orthodox and communists and at the same time so into the idea that we now have to

realize our new norm of life which is still certain for a long time will be tied to the war and the post-war restoration of the state. this is the main key, and without a doubt , given the geopolitics of the rest of the things , we can be sure of victory. this is the fact that the west will always help us. this is already a statement. that is, we sometimes very often overestimated external support. between this idealization and devaluation, we found something in the middle, and that is why we manage in the right way

to spend all the resources and the support that we are given correctly and for the sake of victory, this is also a very important point, but the fact that every ukrainian is like an ordinary citizen of the planet earth, so to speak must realize a simple thing that we each of us must understand for ourselves personally a new standard of life in view of what is happening and this means taking care of yourself, yours, yours , your health, your psychological well-being, and parents bear a double burden now responsibility because of the fact that you, they broadcast to the child how to relate to what is happening, and neither the state nor the president , no one else is responsible for raising children for their psychological well-being . that is, this is also such a mature, not infantile , position of parents and every citizen . this is now the key

therefore, without illusions, but with very simple requirements for oneself and one's environment , because in reality any person cannot cover more than what he has in his life with his environment. the rule is that even without war regarding life regarding the happiness of love uh loved ones but they just work more powerfully but they just might require a little more effort that's all as a political scientist based on what you heard here and said yourself very briefly, the future of ukraine will be your version recognized as a powerful state and in fact, it will be a state of sewing europe or

integrated into the euro-atlantic space, i mean too much or not integrated already without a difference, that is, according to the level of heroism according to different professionalism according to the level of mastery of modern equipment, our army presented the subjectivity of our state, therefore, by and large, today, you know, the question does not arise in principle. that is, we are not members of nato, but there is a rammstein format that provided us with everything we needed. therefore, this is the recognition and strengthening of subjectivity, ukraine will be able to capitalize both financially and political and e-e will be a very equal state for many large top states and a faithful ally precisely in maintaining stability and peace in the region, and this is an extraordinary function in history for the state as a whole to be a guarantor of security because frankly not because i am a citizen of ukraine, but if the rashists had gone

to any other european country with their peaceful way of life, i think it would have been more difficult for them , gentlemen, it was a difficult conversation, but i was interested. i don't know, i don't know how you felt about me interesting actually i think that ah otaki almost said interfaith talk sometimes you have to sometimes you have to give me this term sometimes you have to arrange they sometimes give very unexpected results i don't know what the result of this conversation is but i was pleased but i have a result i will remind everyone that we today we spoke with anton kuchukhid, a political scientist, an internationalist, a co-founder of the analytical center of united ukraine and vitaly lunyov, a clinical professor, a member of the ukrainian academy of sciences , a researcher at the kostyuk institute of psychology of the national academy of pedagogical sciences, i thank you for your attention and i think that

many viewers now have a question about the topic was declared as russophobia, but in fact what were they talking about here, i will tell you that the main result of this conversation, i think the next one is not for us and you, we and so many things about ourselves we know i think for those russian propagandists who can see it ah-no dear propagandists of russophobia in ukraine no, just because we are not afraid of you, we are not afraid of you, the marathon of the only one is hiding, there was a column accent my name is oleksiy fadeev, there will be time for each of us to protect our own the era of nivroku, the times of the imagination will pass, but for now, keep

yourself in a handful through the darkness, it is more visible in time, the destruction of people is the brightest, we hold on to the heap, even though it is not easy from the devil, and it is not strong, it is tiring to hold on to the edges , fatal mistakes, the showers are harsh in the stream in resources we go for the device, we want generators for him in a thousand dreams, we hold on to the truth, we hold on to the strings, we don't just turn off the extra light in our apartments, we turn it on where it is most needed, we don't just turn off the appliances that are not needed now, we support

the operation of the most important equipment, we just save energy, we share those who need it the most turn off the lights turn on the victory do you have t2 reception today your tuner does not receive all ukrainian channels to configure the reception of channels on the tuner remote or tv press the menu button, enter the settings menu, select the auto search item , scan and press the ok button to save the search results if you need help, go to the site or contact the tv masters in your region ship i offer animal weapons girls