[000:00:00;00] companies in the area of ​​soledar and bakhmut, we are talking about the fact that the enemy was concentrating additional forces in the direction of belarus, and at that time we were talking about the presence of 11,000 russian servicemen there, and the further deployment of these forces and means in belarus could lead to, you know, such a chain reaction reaction, the beginning of the mobilization of the belarusians, including the defense of soledar and the continuation of the defense of bakhmut , actually disrupted the plans of the enemy, according to my conviction, and forced them to abandon the idea of ​​deploying a strengthened group in belarus and therefore, let's say that practically all analysts and all analytical publications say that the threat of an attack from belarus does not exist in principle today, we emphasize even more that according to the latest statistics we receive regarding the number of russian troops, half a hundred contingent that was located on

the territory of belarus, he moved to the east, and this may be a confirmation of the words that mr. mykolayovych said, the enemy suffered such losses that forced him to reconsider his plans and m-m forced him to deploy additional e-e units in order to at least maintain a certain tempo of the offensive in the bakhmut direction, this is the first from the point of view of the use of combat equipment, the enemy was forced to engage in very significant and very tiring defensive battles e-e in the streets cities and it must be understood that the defenders , as it was already mentioned, actually have the advantage that they can attack the enemy from protected positions. a certain media factor, we are not talking about any active actions of the wagner group of the wagner private military company, actually confirming the fact about which or

information and once again about the fact that the wagnerites suffered such losses that they lost for a long time the ability in any case such a strike group was an assault a group of e-e units like the wagnerites was strong enough for each force, although it is light infantry but it also significantly undermined e-e their ability to continue hostilities according to some information, there are really tens of thousands of dead e-e and thus we say that one of the relatively combat-capable units of the russian army was actually damaged, and that it is non-standard, and i will say yes, the neutralization of the unit has a certain significance and who knows how it will work in the next stages of our war, including for the development of the internal political situation in the russian federation, because we understand that wagner , i'm sorry, prigozhin, did it actually under his own power and this

undermined his defense capability and ability to influence the situation in the same way and a lot worthy and please, mr. mykola, tell me what happened around the tanks. how do you explain to yourself this change in germany's position, which fluctuated for a long time? well, actually, father , after all, when the hair is not just because there , it is critical for her to pass it on or not to transfer, well, first of all, it is probably those where the opposition is to the bundestag. and actually speaking, the decision to transfer the tanks for export is, after all, the decision that the deputies of the bundestag made the first time on the topic , and then they failed to do so failed

to do, they sent this issue to the committee for consideration, but both the pressure of the voters inside germany and the international pressure of the allies of the political elite in most countries still led to the fact that schultz probably had to hold some negotiations and meetings , first of all in his party, the issue was the transfer of the deputy nothing else, look at them, they were also encouraged by britain, and the united states of america and france. and now there will be a lot of competition, primarily among those countries that have powerful engineering why because participation in combat the actions of the armed forces of ukraine against the russian federation

are, well, let's say that these are the advantages that they receive . that germany gave permission to export, and it was immediately reflected in the value of shares of rhine metal on world exchanges, for sure serhii a , please tell me in principle. so when they say what is needed in order for this supply of tankova to work, a large coalition of forces is needed to what extent can this coalition really be formed, how large is the number of tanks, president zelensky is talking about 300,500, yes, i think he can count on ukraine , uh, you know, this is a very serious challenge regarding the number of tanks, because let’s put it this way, if we turn to completely open sources, we will see that germany has approximately 340 tanks in its supply, this is great

britain, 266 tanks, and i did not follow the figures for spain and france, but due to the fact that europe and the civilized world are such war was not prepared, the number of tanks to date is very limited and mr. mykola will probably agree with me if raising storage tanks is a rather expensive procedure and requires quite serious efforts, and the most important thing is time, so it is not only a matter of transferring to , for example, abrams, leopards, or leclercs varietytta there, is it possible that i even assumed that it is about the transfer to us, including post-soviet tanks, with an emphasis on this why? because these tanks are more familiar to us and we need to understand if this tank is called and according to the nato catalog, it somehow passes the main battle tank main bettlet, so accordingly it is not marked with the appropriate

control systems and even those t-72s that are transferred to us by poland, in particular, we are talking about a solid tank, then they already meet nato standards. thus, we can say that if we are talking about western-western equipment, of course we are talking about dozens of those tanks and they can be reinforced with western-eastern equipment if i allow myself such and such a statement and in general we can in principle reach 300 tanks eh, taking into account that that a very serious competition is really developing today. and let's be honest, well, during the last 30 years, the world community did not pay enough attention to the construction there, so now there is a general case when you can really test new concepts of tank construction and deploy a new, as they say the era of tanking, and here you already know, well, a direct benefit

. i would say that whoever first achieves certain results will be on the horse and in the future not in a year, i repeat not in a year. maybe in the future in a few years we can to see a completely new technique that appeared as a response to the challenges of this war, a response to the confrontation with the russian mass tank attack, but probably mykola here is a question of how the term is true. there are logistical problems, these tanks must be repaired, ammunition must be found for them , by the way, just today, brazil refused germany ammunition for leopards for political reasons, because the president of the club , de silva, is known for his good relations with putin, when the first batch was here, what was the means of strikes, fedorovych zaluzhny, that’s all

2-3 months, and it’s about, uh, 40-50 t-72a tanks from the czech republic, that’s probably the 60 pp 91 solid tanks from poland, that’s 14 challenger tanks from great britain, i suspect that after all 14 leopard 2a6 tanks from germany, so how will holland do, how will it quickly pay for the titans that they are currently using under the leopard 2a6 leasing program, they are german tanks, but they in leasing are located in the netherlands, ot perhaps, i suspect that in 2-3 months we will prepare a certain personnel for

150, maybe 180 tanks, and we will receive 150-180 tanks. okay, at least 5 motorized , mechanized or motorized infantry brigades in which tank battalions will be bypassed. well, i think that within three or four months we will receive a complete battalion set from the united states of america, and it will probably still be an abram, it is an m1a2 in some version, but which one is not yet clear battalion kit for maintenance vehicle and combat repairs, evacuation vehicles, that's in addition to tanks and the training of specialists, which i suspect is already starting now . and tell me, please, mr. serhii. and what do you think about planes? today, we heard a statement by the minister of defense of the federal republic of germany, boris, under a story about exactly that

what about planes no, you can't even talk about it in any way, it's completely different cars, but there was also a conversation about tanks, you know, after tanks, i have no doubts that we what about planes - it's a matter of time i absolutely i am clearly aware of these challenges that exist on the way to obtaining aircraft. i am absolutely aware that this will require a lot of time and resources because, well, let's put it this way, even the requirements for airfields, uh, for western-style aircraft, they are a little different, and we will have to deploy them from scratch the entire system of technical maintenance of the airfield, provision of operation , repair, provision of weapons, deployment of e-e systems of provision of material means, and so on and so on, that is, in fact , what we do not have, and of course it will take more time because you know. it is one thing to train a pilot and our pilots learn quite quickly, and another thing is for us

to use these aircraft effectively and efficiently, and this is where the main challenge actually is, this also applies to tanks, why did i emphasize that it is one thing to talk about western-western models and it is another matter to talk about familiar and well-known eastern models, er, we will say so . therefore, first of all, there are no doubts that we will receive airplanes, because objectively, during the conduct of hostilities, we lose or lose airplanes or aviation simply it wears out, it becomes obsolete and simply becomes unusable, so there is no question of whether we will have planes or not, which ones exactly. that is, i would not cycle everything exclusively on f16 and other options, perhaps intermediate options and saving dates on warthogs or something like that for us it might be useful, but there is no doubt that we will receive planes

. and what do you think, mr. mykol? do you believe in planes? i believe in planes . why ? those with whom i had to talk said that we will get czech t-72 machines , i said, but no, guys, there are still 180 machines. well, what other country basically contracted, but i suspect that they will still end up in our nenets ukraine. that's how it is and since that time, i think that the one that was started not even the day before yesterday regarding airplanes will reach its logical end and maybe somewhere in 8-9 months, maybe a little earlier , we will still get those airplanes that will work

well, maybe not from our airfields at first, but we will have to go all the way in order to move to a completely different level of aviation, thank you, thank you, mykola solomatsia and serhiy hrabskyi, to the military experts who were with us. in the first part of this program, i want to turn to another of our guests. to the european union ivan klympysh sensad welcome ms. ivana congratulations ms. ivan don't hear us ms. ivan you can't hear me it's great so so it seems like everything went well i want to start this conversation you know today's statements of the prime minister of hungary, viktor orbán, because this is not just some statement, it is a logical analysis of the political situation, and when orbán compares ukraine with afghanistan

, why does he do what you think , we don't have ivany now. we talked about the interview with her. which gave us now none 15 to the journalists of the president , the prime minister of hungary, viktorov, he spoke about how he sees this situation in russia's war with ukraine , he spoke about how this situation is expected to change in the near future that putin will never give up the victory over ukraine mrs. ivan

ivanovych, do you hear that now mrs. ivan is gone and this is quite an important moment because you and i realize how difficult relations in the european union are now in general, do you want it because hungary is constantly blocks all aid packages to ukraine hungary is constantly doing everything possible to block part of the sanctions against russia, but now when a new package of sanctions against russia is being prepared, hungary says that it will do everything to block this package if there is going to be talk of nuclear energy, and you and i perfectly understand that this is essentially lobbying for russian interests, it is not happening in vain, it is happening because viktor orbán is economically interested

in cooperation with vladimir putin to do everything possible so that vladimir putin can somehow withstand these sanctions, this war , putin is one of the few bodies, one of the few western politicians who regularly visited putin before the war , foreign minister petro siyarto visited him moscow already after the start of the war and all this means a lot, it means that hungary has a lobbying interest , mrs. ivanna, it is possible. that way everything will work out , let's discuss these statements urban. how do you perceive them, you know. unfortunately , it seems to me that you just continue your political game and which one he tries

to unfortunately sit on two chairs and at the same time enjoy all the advantages of the free world and will be part of the north atlantic alliance and the european union into the game that putin is trying to impose, and this cannot help but disturb me. in my opinion, it seems to me that these exponents of russian ideology are in the middle of the free world and, unfortunately , they are destroying a very large number of opportunities for the free world to act faster in order to prevent a real serious catastrophe as far as possible in general, do you think that urban can realistically analyze the situation , in general, do you think that in his words when he says that putin will not back down, that he needs to win the elections, there is some kind of walkie-talkie, well, look

, you and i also understand that russia at the moment she definitely did not give up any of her plans, and in ukraine they don’t have any other . well, the goal has not changed to destroy us as a people, to destroy us as a state, to destroy us as a society that has its own future and your future is different from apiary russian federation well perhaps you know that in any approach to any position there is always a part of the truth. well, in this regard, and then he will not retreat until he is defeated, as in my opinion, and is weakened to the point that he cannot conduct further military actions and attack but this means that you need to act and

you need to act in unison in this free world, and here it is with his er orban, unfortunately, turns everything upside down and, well, tries to prove the light and that they say maybe we need to look at this problem differently and instead of giving weapons to ukraine uh, to act in some other ways and to seek an understanding with the dictator, uh, a terrorist and an aggressor, and you don’t think that he is just worried about the fact that nuclear energy can be russian under sanctions , it’s some of his own calculations with them uh regarding nuclear cooperation, to ensure their business interests with putin by avoiding general sanctions that also applied to oil and gas, and i suspect that

in this way it is an additional type of blackmail . will provide for restrictions on cooperation in nuclear energy to the extent that it is now possible to talk about a change in the attitude of the international community. to talk about the fact that everyone understands that playing with russia is a long game. well, there are different international organizations and different moods and different public moods, we have politics on different continents, so even so, you can probably talk somewhere for the vast majority of countries, they define the future in different ways, and therefore to talk about some general trend and a clear understanding of how these or other international organizations will develop

at the moment is too early to say, but it is definitely an undermining of confidence in the ability of international organizations organizations to solve the problems that they were created and called upon to solve and to ensure that these problems either will not arise or will be solved when they do arise, and this definitely applies to a large number of international organizations, starting with issues related to a-a structure and the architecture of the united nations. what do you think about the organization of the united nations, to what extent can you think that russia is capable of playing a constructive role? what do you mean? we just heard the president's statement. to serbia, aleksandra, whatever, he is ready to compromise on kosovo, and that both countries will not prevent each other from joining international organizations, that serbia will not be

against kosovo joining the united nations, and do you believe that russia will not block this introduction, it is obvious that it is not. and this is where it is obvious that i do not believe. and here you and i have exactly this problem when a country with its own personal agenda and an aggressive agenda , which is already recognized by half of the world as an aggressor country, a terrorist country, and so on another thing is that the right of veto plays a critically important role in the security council of the united nations. this is exactly what i meant when i spoke about the question of the architecture of the only global organization we have , which emerged after the second world war. to what extent do you now see that there are any chances

of a real punishment for russia, what do you think about these uh, this controversy regarding the tribunals that is happening now, the hybrid term project that the minister of foreign affairs of germany, andriana berkova, says, what is international the tribunal that other european politicians propose to create, what is the meaning of the field and what should it lead to? i think that there is a growing awareness that russia should be punished and the method of punishment. unfortunately, the methods of punishing the country for war crimes and crimes against humanity and against and the crime of aggression and the crime of genocide, and they currently have certain limitations, in particular, regarding the punishment of the country for the crime of aggression, and this requires, well, some additional creation of additional mechanisms. i think that this process of realizing that we will have to

to create this special tribunal and we see that there is already some kind of political support, well, at least at the level of the european union, the support of the european parliament at the level and the council of europe was also recently adopted , a response to the resolution that individual countries will be forced to create this special tribunal, of course in ideally, such a tribunal should be created, perhaps at the level of the decision of the general assembly of the united nations and it would be about the world's awareness of good and evil and the black and white war that russia is waging today against ukraine and against the free world, but this path is quite difficult, this path unfortunately does not look realistic at the moment, and therefore there is this hmm this consideration of the option of creating a special

tribunal and how much the meaning of the tribunals when we know that the people who should be punished at the tribunals will not appear . i think that these people will always be here. and the moral side of the matter is also very important and i would be with you. maybe even i did not agree, we do not know how this war will develop further. of course, it is possible that some people see our victory in the form of the ukrainian flag over the kremlin . it is probably another victory that we have, which we will get, and but we do not know how this war will develop and it is possible that some of those people who are involved in these key decisions may end up on the dock at a special tribunal, but from a moral point of view, they will be forced to hide

for the rest of their lives and will not have a chance anywhere if they are punished through a special the tribunal eh and if the convicts will be through a special tribunal and will not have the opportunity to continue their lives as they envisioned it, that is also possible well , they tell me that they are already set up , they do not want to have anything to do with the civilized world at all, you you see, putin, all his like-minded people, all these russian leaders , they all limited themselves to the world in which they are happy to meet. as a-a sanctions a pressure on e-e families of these people and here , in my opinion, additional decisions would be needed, those sanctions that have already been

adopted, in particular, in relation to individual sanctions, but not only in relation to the adopters of these or other decisions, but also to the great , large circle of wide circles of their families. and this is one of those steps that can force them. well, if you want to spin like a thorn in a frying pan, ah, in unpreparedness to accept this , how do they think that they have accepted this reality of this world, to isolate themselves, i don't think they are interested in that to be theirs children, did their families continue their lives there, let's say in north korea or iran, well, obviously yes, but if i choose between uh, life imprisonment, life imprisonment, and

life in tehran, then what do you do here, then they choose tehran and enjoy life there and without any without there are no possibilities of the system, this is also a certain type of imprisonment, and this also needs to be understood, and this is also a type of punishment, well, again , i wanted these people to be punished not by the fact that they can simply go east and not west, but by some real punishment, how to do it so that russia becomes a part of civilized education and is ready to hand over these people to international justice, as , say, serbia did. i think that this issue is precisely what will get a real defeat in this war if russia will be so weakened that it will not be able to launch any other attack on any which corner of the world if it will be deprived of the resource to restore itself in this

effort to restore its empire and attack again. this may lead to the fact that the russian leadership will be issued for for such a court, thank you mrs. ivana ivana klympochka tsatsa and sensat zedeka of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, the head of the committee on european integration , every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world, vitaly portnikov, the host of espresso and invitations, experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast the development of events. understand how our today will affect our tomorrow watch the saturday political club every saturday on espresso greetings dear tv viewers, this is news and