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, the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team, click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian view congratulations friends on the air of the espresso tv channel and the saturday political club program anzhelika sezonka and vitaly portnikov good evening, today is the 339th day of the full-scale war in russia against ukraine, of course, in the first block of our program, we will focus on the russian-ukrainian war today , in particular, we will talk about the transfer of tanks to ukraine , european countries have finally agreed to this , in particular, and we are getting leopard 2, and we will also talk about the fact that vugledar is still not the hottest point on the front today. why? it is so important for the ukrainian, for the ukrainian

army and for the russian army. well, let's also talk about the fact that the intelligence reports that russia will allegedly discredit certain information work in ukraine. what exactly let's find out. so, our first guest of the defense strategy expert center on foreign and security policy, diplomat, advisor to the minister of defense of ukraine oleksandr khara, congratulations mr. oleksandr in 2020 , an advisor, of course. so, let's try to talk with you about how now after these tanks. the decision to provide tanks is made up of the situation with ukrainian weapons in general, to what extent is this a political , to what extent is it a military-strategic decision, because we understand that tanks are not the same. in principle , the number of temples could have been taken immediately

to change the course of the war, well, definitely for us, negotiations took place at first, the first appeal was when they began to give the artillery certainty, let’s say, the system, and khaima became such a crown from this direction, then definitely, eh , these are tanks, and let’s hope that after a very short period of time, we will receive it is modern, it is a mixer, it is definitely clear that we need it very much. i am not talking about operational-tactical missiles. well, there are nuances here , most likely. until the end of the war , it is unlikely that we will get what we want. occupiers and not only occupiers on russian territory. but the most important thing is that in what seems to me, certain, let’s say, the evolution of thinking of key people who shape foreign policy in the united states, in europe, first of all, in germany, and here they had their own red lines that something must not be done, otherwise there will be some kind of escalation

and they are constantly saying that by the way. and now at least the germans are talking about it. and it is very good that they understand that there can be no more escalation than now , unless it is possible, but we know that works here nuclear deterrence is, first of all, and secondly , the negative consequences of the use of nuclear weapons by the deceased against ukraine. i believe that i am talking about nato member countries, they will be catastrophic, and therefore it is certain that this deterrence works , although periodically. changing approaches to these red lines is another important point in believing that ukraine is capable of expelling the occupiers from our territory and, let's say , to achieve a certain form of victory, why do i say a certain form of victory, there will definitely be questions crimea still remains open, although the american and military and already diplomatic political representatives

say that they have nothing against the fact that ukraine will defend itself and liberate crimea by force of arms, including the use of weapons provided by the americans, this is very important from such a position the moment that happened, but on the other hand, i think they are all secretly thinking , well, let's do this, they will liberate donbas there, and then we'll see, and most likely putin will have to go to some kind of truce there or some other steps so that he does not suffer such a defeat that will lead to the collapse of the russian federation. for us, this is definitely a desirable option, although there are threats associated with the collapse of the russian federation there . i am not talking about the fact that different such very pleasant characters are the same kadyrov or prigozhin or a number of others, they may get the opportunity to fight for power with weapons and pose a threat to us as well. well, but there is no greater threat than you and i now, from the point of view of the actual capabilities

, the americans have already begun to say, it seems, in the report about the fact that ukraine should reach a higher level of use of my forces and means and what they call a combine. that is, it is such a combination of ground forces, armor, artillery. well , of course, where would the activity go somewhere without its own aviation and tanks after that as they provided us with a large number of armored vehicles that are maneuverable for him , and we need them extremely, of course. let's say this , the picture is already forming, and we will already have all the components for conducting this higher level of war, and he will give us an advantage qualitative over quantitative, because of course the women hit 140 million iron, they still have quite a lot, and that's why we can't

go head-to-head with them . -a even these modernized tanks of the 80s. they are higher from the point of view of indicators eh there eh well, i mean from the point of view of combat performance than the most modern russian tanks and of course that is an extremely positive thing well and the most important thing is that well, yes, you already touched on so many questions in your answer . e fighters in 16 well, they didn’t say about tanks before that they would be transferred and germany was against it in particular, however, they came to this as far as fighters are concerned , the netherlands already said that they have 40

fighters in f-16 and in principle they are not against hand over and replace it with an f-35 for my country if i'm not mistaken. please tell me how long this process will take, because we still had to fight with tanks. i think it will be a little longer than tanks. there are a number of factors here. well, we heard already the new unappointed minister of defense of germany, who said that this is somewhere distant perspectives and here there are several aspects , the first internal , let's say so , the nato aspects. and mr. sullivan called one of the german putin versteiers and explained in a raised tone that they had done something stupid, that they had something to count on, that is , in fact, they showed the russians that not everything is so smooth, that there are certain disagreements, and that

the germans are not actually trying to find some there are some excuses. tricks in order not to give these tanks because if you remember from the very beginning they said no at all because it will be the third world war, then they said that we need it to be a joint decision and then the poles started this coalition of european countries, they called 10 who were ready to give tanks, and then the soviets decided to elect permanent ones , they play an extremely positive role. voted, but actually the british did. in this way, they gave us the first missiles that others did not give. they were the first to give us helicopters, these stackings, which are already flying and are used by our naval forces , and they gave us the first tanks, because they are french. are not considered tanks at all, but then everyone says no, no. we mean the americans and here america, france, after a few weeks there when they told us how complicated

the system is, that the logistics are wrong, and it seems that they work on wedding benzene, and not on diesel, which in german, and the germans make them, and there is a repair base for spare parts, a large number of countries, that is, in principle, all the logical arguments were because the germans should do it. so it was decided, well, let's give the ukrainians 31 of these abrams 8 tractors for them that is, it was already like that, you know, they did it a little nervously, that's why i don't think that now the americans and other europeans will want to publicly show again that there are any faults because f16 definitely was the topic that will bother the germans and they will to say well, you see again, it is this weapon that is not

. it is more than tanks, you can use it to hit russian territory . americans for sure will make a decision, especially since these are their planes, but not now, yes, that is, they will look at the apostasy, and on the one hand, they will not be in a hurry, and on the other hand, they have an unconditionally certain, let's say, window of opportunity. i think that this aid of 2.5 billion is the eve rammstein they announced it is very related to budget issues that actually at the end of the summer of this year all this money that was allocated will actually be used, we know the factor of those e-trembists who in the house of representatives are starting to raise bucha there to control something and to put pressure on the government because of accountability. they are trying to influence the aid to ukraine. now

, we have seen the agitation in the last week . those that influence public opinion, that is, all of this is a factor . well, of course, we remember that the 24th year is the year of the elections in the united states, and of course, let's say, we don't know who will be next god forbid, trump will be the president, so we can imagine what problems we will have with support from the united states , on the one hand, they have time to prepare, on the other hand, they have the trump factor, the money you have - allocated in this budget, they will be moved so slightly, i liked the news literally the day before yesterday , the financial times wrote that lukin-martin, er , in advance began to increase the production of er, it means these aircraft and components, because they

foresee that the west is a ghost, such a decision certain european countries will hand over to ukraine uh. there are 16 of them that have all of them in arsenals, and they will definitely need to replace them with new planes, etc. in fact, they are already waiting and doing it, and this is an unconditionally positive thing, and we understand that this business will be included to protect their interests there on the capitalist hills, so in principle i think that the positive will be resolved, but not in the near future, and we will have to work more delicately than before, i mean in ukraine as well, because you remember certain things ambassadors of ukraine who are now the deputy ministers put pressure quite frankly, and it annoyed the germans quite a lot. i think that this time we need to work in slightly different ways. this is actually creating a coalition like the one the same poles said about, and more diplomatically. for for with the current door to explain why uh they have to take such

a step and how much it will bring the end of the war closer and most importantly the security of the continent after this war because a very important moment is the first speech of lloyd axis during the rammstein meeting i have taken the first rammstein said that our the first task, he said, is that we also believe in the victory of ukraine, the second is if our task is to give the ukrainians everything they need now on the battlefield, but the third task is to give the ukrainians what they want so that they are so strong and russia had no desire to attack to ukraine one more time later, already after the end of this war. do you believe that the russians will be able to draw such conclusions ? the russians can draw such conclusions.

we remember mr. putin's statement that it's like a gateway to this st. petersburg, that is, they understand, let's say, the rights of force , they understand and if we are able to a-a, it means to hold back, firstly, secondly , to inflict such uh-uh such and such damage on them uh- to the russians, what ivanin, what i can’t achieve here, i think that it will be a deterrent factor. although now definitely irrationality in this war is manifested to the maximum, because any normal government would hmm, it would suspend this war, at least in order to accumulate forces and finally solve the ukrainian question about about which they are already talking quite frankly, and they will even say, yes, not the first persons of the russian federation, but the second, the third - this is exactly why i think that the russians always had and still have rationality factors, but our ability to stop them will be such an important factor in your opinion, oleksandr, do you agree

with the reasoning of the hungarian prime minister viktor orbán that it is very important for putin to win this war in order to look like russia's savior in the 24th elections? well, i think that they they realized such a strategic mistake, there is such a concept of strategic , that is, stretching, did they stretch their strength , i think he already realizes that here the question of the survival of his regime is not just whether they will elect him, although we know that they are taking him because there are no elections in russia, and after yeltsin actually handed over his power, the election was all an effect . that's why he will definitely be re-elected, and here 's hoping that he thinks so that he needs to approach these elections was definitely something would be positive, let's say the same thing, let's repeat krimshism. and what did he unite the nation and return some old russian territories there ? of course, that's why there was no need

to use force or to bribe or kill the opposition. and now he can actually create a field of political competition . no more thank you mr. oleksandr very much for the conversation oleksandr khara expert of the center for defense strategies on foreign and security policy diplomat of the defense of ukraine in 2020 let's move on to the new year andreya kalan official representative of the state department of the united states , we are on the air, welcome to ms. andre, yes, i understand, i can’t give an interview in ukrainian. i will read it. this is an important story. read

it for our viewers and for you. the united states is committed to supporting the ukrainian people during the war of aggression unleashed by russia. we must ensure oversight of the use of funds. and resources provided by american taxpayers in support of ukraine we advise you to confidentially report any suspicious activity related to the program or operations of the us department of defense to the us state department, including the us agency for global media and the us agency for international development, to the respective state hotline indicated below and there is even a qr-code of the inspector general of the united states department of state, the united states department of defense

, the united states agency for international development and this is why it was written: corruption, sexual exploitation, fraud, waste of funds, abuse, improper management, human trafficking. here i will tell you honestly , i see such a document and such a proposal . for the first time in my life, it may have happened in other countries , even after many ten years of cooperation with radio freedom is free europe is a ct organization that exists at the expense of american taxpayers. i have not seen such a proposal. i want to understand what this means in practice, so what should ukrainian citizens do when they read such proposals, well, uh, if i understood correctly, uh, i understood you, uh , this is what is written, it turns out to be uh, corruption and other things, and the situation when they use uh, means as it should be, or when there are some then situations and the rich so that either people a-a in this act against themselves there a-a and

this is a practice in the whole world a-a so that it is not only a a a-a in ukraine or in other countries well, this is what i want to emphasize in this situation, uh , in ukraine, because i know that many people are now talking about what happened and what happened corruption well, it's obvious that president zelensky is very serious about dealing with corruption, and this is very important, and i can say that with the help of the united states , which we give to ukraine, this is what - and we don't see what uh-uh what uh-uh we gave either this and it concerns a-and i accept financing this uh-uh this will turn out to be uh-humanitarian

help and uh-uh military aid and uh-ah m- m we don't see that this was the use of eh eh so how uh, that's what the aid that we issued, uh, ukraine is using it the way it should be, accepting aid through the world bank, and as they said, find weeks in the white house , and we see that it's being done. we give out that it goes to the benefit of the ukrainian military and armed forces, and they very courageously use that help to protect their country, but we in the united states take it very seriously. er er er

when they say that there is corruption when there are other problems and we are ready to look at the situation and it will continue. well, i want to let you know that i am a ukrainian citizen. i know that in some regional administration there is some region through some ministry, here are my proper expenses, with the help of someone, not there, according to the rules, someone got rich because of your help, i report it on the hotline of the inspector general . fact even i have documents and what does the inspector general do, that's what he does does i just want to really remember this memory uh, this is uh, the use of words, whether

or not corruption exists or not, uh, so it is important when someone has uh, proof that something is uh, uh, used that is not the appointment that is needed, what did they transmit this information? well, again, i want to wait, what did we not see in the united states, and what did we give direct assistance to the military pomoško a-a pošёl нет туда куда надо ms. andriana, first of all i want to tell you that we noticed your outfit, symbolism thank you very much for this, and secondly, regarding the plan of strategic supervision of aid to ukraine, how will it be implemented , a certain mission will come to us from time to time, which will monitor the aid, it

is unlikely to live like that but it is possible well, here is our strategic plan eh but if eh- because i know that they are talking about a time of salvation , our plan is a regular plan. he talks to our partners in ukraine to know what they need to successfully fight russian aggression. uh, too, too at the moment, we have a very testy contact with our partners in the west, and it is extremely important that we were able to help each other and that we could often hear from our ukrainian partners what they need, because the situation changes every day, every week, and so on. it is important to consider these changes and when we think about how to move forward to help ukraine put an end to this war president

biden is going to go to europe on the anniversary of this war visit, is it possible that there will be some important ones in europe on the initiative of the american announcement regarding further cooperation with the allies, she said yesterday that she has no information about it ? - and in the guest apartment in the white house and other second-floor concrete buildings, we are planning how we will make an offer for the anniversary of the war because 12 months is uh-uh, it's simple , it's hard to believe that this war is already going on for so

long we will continue to show help and do everything possible to block russia's ability to continue its aggression against ukraine, your colleague ms. nuland, the deputy secretary of state and one of the most experienced american diplomats, spoke at the congressional hearings, and she spoke in particular, and everyone noticed that she could there will be a relaxation of sanctions in the event that the russians leave the territory of russian ukraine, and i am curious. these are just words, because in the polemic with the congressmen, is there any plan for what the relaxation of sanctions might look like in response to russia's readiness to stop the aggression of the scarecrow if russia withdraws from ukraine, if the russian army withdraws from ukraine and stops its aggression against ukraine

, then it is possible to look at the sanctions to savor the sanctions, but this does not mean that all the sanctions are simply they don’t take off, and when she’s in charge of the sector, but he spoke, uh , in the congress, they talked about individual sanctions, uh, more than uh , here are other sanctions, uh, so, well, i also want to uh, he talks a little and why do the sanctions exist? sanctions now exist so that they can be implemented and implemented человека и задействие страны и задействие компании и когда меняется это там дрейте тогда тогда можно смотреть э-э is it possible to suck these sanctions or not also by the way

, victoria nulan stated that the united states of america will most likely not have time to provide tanks to ukraine abrams to the spring offensive. what is this connected with? andrea. maybe you can explain it is some kind of bureaucracy or the readiness of the transfer or logistics. well, when she talked about it, she also talked about it in the white house . so that one day we will a-a we can one day er-e transfer these tanks need training we need to guarantee that a-a all the spare parts a-a there is that it is possible to repair these tanks er-e when they are in ukraine and er and also here is to transfer so that it takes several months, but what the u.s. wants

is that what is needed in ukraine is what is needed to fight aggression today tomorrow the day after tomorrow in the future and this means that if they are here when these tanks will be in ukraine a-a er-er, probably it will be er-er by spring when we we expect that russia will start an offensive again, and then they will help. when a contoured ukraine makes a contour offensive and helps ukraine , it successfully occupies a good position on the battlefield, and i also want to wait. success on the battlefield does not depend on one a-a video weapon a-a and it is precisely because of this that it is important that e-e all the strange ones that e-e meet like e-e