[000:00:00;00] by the way, you know that not the only turul, even in the lviv region, is the hungarian monument , which is the point of what kind of hungarians, well, orban thinks yes, yes, we know mr. yury on the verets pass, yes. that is, they think that this is the edge of the hungarian empire this is a big part of hungary, that is, even. this point is located in the lviv region. live broadcast of the espresso tv channel and we are moving on and it's time to talk about corruption and the fight against it in ukraine, contact us oleksandr kalitenko , legal advisor of transparency international ukraine, mr. oleksandr congratulations glory to ukraine

glory to the heroes congratulations ukraine has risen e-e in the index of perception of corruption ranked 116 place among 180 countries e-e in the rating we are now six points higher compared to last year , according to a study that was made public today e, in particular, in your organization and now decipher, please, we have improved our position or vice versa the situation with corruption and its perception in our country has worsened we improved our position we added cymbal we have 33 points out of a possible 100 where 100 means almost complete absence of corruption in the public sector a0 almost total corruption a-a we are actually close to 30 -mate with three points with actually a-a zambia, mongolia, salvador, philippines, algeria, tangola, and

among our neighbors, poland leads them with 55 points, and equally good points in slovakia, 53, in romania, hungary, a little lower, 46, 42, in moldova and belarus 39 and ukraine-aggressor russia 29 points and we actually supported this progress of ours in 10 years we got 8 points and this is among the top 15 best progress in 10 years according to the results of 10 years in the world, even though our growth could have been more noticeable and the effect of the fight against corruption is more tangible. oh yes, alexander. well, you upset me a bit, so to speak, by indicating our immediate neighbors according to this rating. well, zambia is convincing. i took it. i have heard little about zambian corruption. well, in any case

well, i hoped that we were overtaking belarus somewhere, so to speak, but it turns out that we are not. although belarus, well, it is an authoritarian autocratic regime where corruption may not be widespread at some household level, but the entire state structure of the same belarus is corruption as it is. so we know in which the way they solve any issues, that is , it is a question of phone calls, a question of control by cops and special services, so to speak, of certain areas of business, and so on and so on. and here it turns out that belarus is almost not equal romania, which carried out quite successful anti-corruption reforms, and here it would be good to ask what methodology, that is, what benchmarks are used when determining this rating, again, what antin said is the absolute truth. then, how did it happen that belarus still has more points in the index?

only the perception of corruption, he does not assess the violation of human rights or the pressure on freedom of speech, all this is not taken into account. and indeed, if you compare the scores of belarus with the scores of ukraine, for example , you may get the impression that antin said. however, before evaluating some foreign of research, and we actually have very high expectations in ukraine for the fight against corruption, we know about numerous corruption schemes thanks to the coverage of journalists, investigators , representatives of the public in belarus, such publications simply do not come out, and in fact , our index is calculated based on the results of indicators from various sources according to some sources, ukraine has a higher rating than belarus because in belarus there are no clear anti-corruption norms, they need improvement in the legislation, they are poorly applied however, domestic corruption is also not taken into account in our index, it evaluates only the public sector, not the private sector, not

domestic bribes, and the fact that belarus is a closed ukraine, it is even so closed that the european council of europe group of states against corruption is greek . and when it recognized belarus as not meeting anti-corruption standards, greek this was the first declaration made by greko regarding one of the member states a-a and she actually concluded that the real scale of corruption in belarus is very difficult to assess because the country is closed and even this report greko belarus forbade the publication of that a-a, of course, with the above conclusions of international research, information about the state of corruption in this country is just a lie. thank you. now we will add to our conversation about corruption the fight against it olena shcherban, lawyer, member of the administration of the anti-corruption center mrs. olena, i congratulate you glory to ukraine heroes slava well, somehow, the stories that concern

the leadership of the national anti-corruption bureau have somehow intensified now, there is an opinion that er , this er, situation is now somewhat unnatural the method is forced, although we had more than enough time to deal with this important issue ms. elena, the competition for the head of the nabu and its prospects, the president promised that we will soon see the result , but can we hope for the quality of the conduct of this competition ? the competition is conducted by the competition commission . actually, it is completely independent, and no one, not even the president, can give it specific deadlines. moreover, i hope that this was done by the president unintentionally. i think that it is possible that someone who prepared some theses for him made a mistake, but well, we also saw that there were statements from prime minister shmygel, who also

wanted the competition to end as soon as possible . indeed enough time, but if you remember how the process took place, back in february of last year , the composition of the competition commission was actually approved, and the problem was precisely that the government , while approving the composition of the commission, made an illegal demand against one of the members of the dragokos commission - this is an international expert. actually, the government did not allow him to participate in the meetings of the commission for the election of the director of the nabu until he gets rid of his membership in the commission for the election of the head of the sap. in fact, such a condition was illegal and the commission could not start its work until the government did not eliminate this illegal demand and the government eliminated it only in the summer of this year, in july , that is, at least four and almost five months have passed

since the commission's work was blocked , and in august the commission began its work. tried for this process, bills were registered, the purpose of which was to change the rules, uh, change the requirements for candidates. well, accordingly , when the commission starts working, the parliament tries to change the rules, the commission did not start the process until it was final , i wanted that uh, there are no questions and this process will move like this, that's why the competition has started for candidates, it continued in the process , because there were a number of shellings, we had blackouts , they extended the deadline for candidates to submit documents so that everyone would have time

. actually, they have already passed this stage. the main stages of the process, even three have already passed the test, in the end, there are 22 candidates left who must now be checked for integrity and, accordingly, the check should ask about candidates without surnames, because this can be interpreted, so to speak, as pressure and so on . and so on . there are chances that some, perhaps not entirely virtuous, perhaps not too positive , respectable ladies or gentlemen who are competing for the position of manager will get , so to speak, the appropriate passing marks some toxic people without surnames. and there are toxic people, there are people who have a direct connection with the president's office, in fact, they have such clear and understandable connections, but i hope for such people at the same time. i have a lot of questions

about their declarations about their lifestyle regarding the origin of assets regarding decision-making a-a in the positions in which they previously worked we as a public are now analyzing all candidates and also send our information about them officially to the competition commissions , we know that the competition commission also applies to all state bodies, receives information from state registers, databases, and information on the cities of candidates’ previous work , and so on, so all of them will be carefully analyzed, and in this sense, it is worth saying that such attempts to manipulate the commission in this process can just testify to the fact that someone is not wants the commission to thoroughly check all the bad guys. that's why it's actually necessary to understand that this is a procedure that requires time to analyze the translation into english because there are actually representatives of international experts in

commission, i am convinced that such people with many questions do not have a chance to win the competition, but if we talk about who should win, the actual law on nabu also says that it should be a professional , competent and virtuous person, so it is important not only that the candidates do not belong to the candidates there were no questions about integrity, but what is important is that these were really people who in their work have results in the fight against corruption , results in top cases. they will be acted on. thank you for the questions to mr. oleksandr, you can simply answer yes

or no. oleksandr, despite what i have. on the contrary, we saw the intensification of investigations, especially after the appointment of the prosecutor, which was very delayed, because the competition commission determined the winner back in december 21, and then simply could not approve its evaluations. we saw this whole situation, which took place around this competition, in the end the winner was confirmed, and since that time a great activation of the investigation was recorded , why did today's information literally ask, the judge of the higher anti-corruption court recognized the suspicion of the former chairman of the board of naftogaz of ukraine andriy kobolev regarding the illegality of receiving a prize in the national national agency as unfounded and this is quite interesting, so the underlining was reported by the lawyer oleksiy nosov in accordance with the decision on the refusal to choose a preventive

measure. the court did not establish water risks obstructing the criminal proceedings, all the risks listed by the prosecutor are eliminated by the voluntary return of kobolev to ukraine, this is the first and new that the supervisory board made a decision on the award and was not pressured by the official well, as we understand it, this situation was a good test of how the higher anti-corruption court will cope with a similar task, but now, according to the results, many people are asking questions about the professionalism of, let's say, the work of the national anti-corruption bureau and the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office because vaks directly says you didn’t justify or you didn’t elaborate or sorry, there is no subject of work at all i understand correctly , oleksandr earlier refused to take kobolev into custody a-and that was before er-er the decision you quoted er-er sap was going

to appeal it this decision simply says that the anti-corruption bodies are working, and we see the results of their work, just like these corruption scandals that we saw in mid-january, and the work that is being done by the anti-corruption bodies is rather inspiring because that big corrupt fish about whom society has been waiting for a long time that there will be investigations about her eh we are just seeing another big fish above the anti-corruption court announced the sentence to the former investigator of the prosecutor general's office dmytro susu eh this is a rather long story in 2016 he found himself at the epicenter of a high-profile scandal between the prosecutor general's office of nabu. well, in the midst of this conflict, an investigative-operational group led by him came to nabu with searches, and the surveillance of the investigator himself led to a physical confrontation between employees of two law enforcement agencies structures of e-e in the 17th year, employees of nabu detained him at

boryspil airport on suspicion of taking possession of someone else's property in large sizes, another news related to the anti-corruption e-e system in our country ms. elena and kobolev jesus in your opinion and according to your feelings, did our anti-corruption bodies pass or pass these tests , ah, well, actually, the court determined a 9-year prison term for the scumbag, really, if you recall even the quotes of this investigator, i will remind you that he was not just obstructing the employees of the at some point he detained employees of the nabu who investigated him and brought him to the office of the prosecutor general and there he was illegally put bags on their heads there for a very long time and this was precisely the reason for such a serious conflict with the special forces in that period, but the essence is known for the fact that he actually during the searches he conducted with the general

prosecutor's office, he robbed the people he searched and then sold this property , he sold it for uah 814,000. well , actually, for that he received nine years of imprisonment today. the opinion is absolutely correct eh if we talk about the case of mr. kobolev, this decision eh this decision was of the first instance it has already been appealed by the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office to the appellate instance vaks i will just remind you that there have already been cases when in fact the appellate chamber of vaks was also appealed annulled the decision of the first instance. i think that in this case it is necessary to wait for the final decisions of the court and then draw conclusions, but in general, it is actually a normal practice when law enforcement officers see the problems are seen as certain violations of the law. so, if at some point the court points out shortcomings, this is also a completely

normal practice, yes , so far, i see no reason to say that something has gone wrong. we are waiting for the final decision of the appeals chamber of the vax and then it will actually be possible to talk further about this matter well, who am i , who about what? in order that, well, in the public space there will be relevant one or another very specific e-e transcripts on many points , you are working on it. is it possible that it cannot be conducted at all ? the recruitment competition started even before the full-scale war , but it stopped after february 24 and resumed in august, and indeed the commission has now

announced 22 participants who passed the stage of practical tasks. and the interview is now analyzing their integrity. we will also analyze their integrity, we are already doing it and then let's share our conclusions with the commission and ah, i want to say that it will be right here after the interviews have been conducted, a lot can also be seen from these interviews ah regarding the candidates e-e regarding the questions that the commission e-e will ask during the interviews etc. how will the candidates answer them a-a and so on a-a now we are waiting for the next stage of the competition a-a because the interview is waiting and based on their results the three finalists will be determined among whom

the cabinet of ministers will choose the future director of nabu the trio of finalists is very interesting and the cabinet of ministers chooses a very interesting moment ms. elena, how will this whole thing look in practice, in particular , in what way will they vote in your opinion, and what does it mean that they will choose one of the three a-a really yes really in this position when the cabinet is given such a discretion to choose of one of the three, and there are certain risks, eh, we know that this provision was once a compromise when the law on the competition in nabu was adopted, eh , the risks are that the government the authorities obviously hope that in the final three there will be at least one person with whom it will be possible to come to an agreement, but the task of the commission today is actually to prevent such stories from happening and to propose three completely honest and professional candidates. i will also say that they will all undergo two interviews, and before that, a thorough analysis will be

carried out for each candidate therefore, the commission has every opportunity to do absolutely everything to ensure that the three best and absolutely suitable candidates for this position were selected. some black balls from the bag will be opened, pull or write notes, who to vote for in the process, so to speak, of the contest itself, any kind of frauds are impossible, so to speak, mr. oleksandr or ms. elena, who knows, i am actually in the process of the competition, i see absolutely no opportunities for fraud, everything happens transparently the main task is to ensure that there is no fraud actually at the stage of appointment by the government, well, it is that these three people really have no questions to anyone, so then actually there will be no reason to manipulate . oleksandr, your verdict is final and we do not

now we see ani oi unjustified delays on the part of the commission in this competition, and we expect that the result of this competition will really be at the end of march or april this year, we are blocking , thank you very much oleksandr kalitenko, legal adviser of transperection international ukraine and olena shcherban, lawyer, member of the board of the anti-corruption center worked live on the air, let's go further and we will finalize our today's broadcast with antin and the current hour with a conversation with olga gonchar, director of the territory of terror museum, founder of the museum of the crisis center, we congratulate you, mrs. olya, glory to ukraine, congratulations to the heroes, glory, e-e, you were invited to talk about the project wounded culture , initiated by the museum e-e crisis center , the project aims to document the experience of museum workers during the war. well, of course, to prevent the irreversible loss of cultural heritage with the help of modern of technologies, tell us a little more

about the mission, it is really very important, how difficult it is to implement it, and what do you have for this, and all last year, our museum crisis center initiative helped museum workers from all over the world regions in ukraine. these are about 120 museums and more than 1,000 personal contacts. we are engaged in and continue to engage in providing individual financial support in the form of scholarships for museum workers who have remained in ukraine and are working, and during our personal communication we learned many stories about heroism. in the war, as our colleagues save museums and collections and realized that this experience this story deserves special attention and separate documentation and we actually started in december of last year

the wounded culture project and the first was the okhtyrtsi museum local history what are we doing, we record interviews with museum directors, volunteers, everyone, who helps preserve recreation, and also thanks to vr technology, we document the destruction in order to record the crimes of russia against ukraine, because it is a genocide of the ukrainian people, and actually, of all the materials, we create materials in in the form of video vring excursions that we plan to show both in ukraine and outside of ukraine so that everyone knows what it is like to be a museum worker during the war and how to save the heritage of such difficult conditions, well, actually, we would like to ask you, ms. olga about the museum in okhtyrka, after the so-called acute phase of attempts by russian interventionists to destroy it, what about the exhibits and, in general, what do you think are the prospects

for restoring and saving the museum in okhtyrka. at the moment, the legitimate international ukrainian ones regarding the preservation of heritage, the building has been destroyed, but colleagues already have some help from abroad to preserve it, to preserve what is left in okhtyrka, they are working on information with volunteers, with architects, with artists, etc., they are open to communication, that is, they do everything possible in these difficult conditions to preserve the museum and build it after the victory. and in your opinion, mrs. olga, what steps are missing in the strategy of the same ministry of culture to support museums? or somehow understanding

their place, in particular, we are talking about the front-line regions of ukraine, so we understand that during the large-scale russian invasion, they quickly captured a significant part of our territories, thank god and thank the armed the forces of ukraine have knocked out the enemy from many , so to speak, in the region, but of course not from all . it is not only the ministry of culture. it is actually trying to do this as much as it can, but there are other ministries, the ministry of finance, social development, integration and others, which may not fully understand

important cultures, unfortunately. that is, it has there should be a joint decision of all ministries regarding the preservation of the continuation of funding, the increase of funding, and absolutely all measures must be directed to the preservation of culture, its protection, because this is a matter of national security and the war in ukraine is a war against our culture, against our identity, and this is actually a question of all ministries, not only of culture and not only of museum workers, that is why it is finally necessary to accept it and act at the national level, uh, so far , a lot has already been done, but a lot it is necessary to do uh and this is foreign aid, it is very important without it we would not be able to cope , but it is also uh, it is important to make decisions at the state level so that culture is part of our security in this world ms. olga if

we are talking about foreign aid she is now on such an episodic-episodic level, has it already acquired some i don't know systemic plan, we understand that culture is a very delicate matter, we understand that museum institutions are as if they are autonomous because different levels of subordination are very often the area the city, the ministry of culture, and so on went on. well, accordingly, we understand that they want to help. there are already beautiful rich museums, there are poor museums, there are museums that need special additional help. we understand that our budget is not rubber, we will not be able to disperse it because the focus is on the war, the focus is on the armed forces of ukraine, and accordingly, perhaps we should somehow more actively and systematically involve our partners in culture from abroad from the same not poor european union, which means that from the first

days of the war, we were in contact in lviv and well, everyone started calling us from abroad to offer help, and in this way we actually helped the museums located in lviv , because we are usually in a better condition . continue to help colleagues from other regions, that is why we got the strengthening of our museums, security infrastructure funds, and of course, all the help for culture that was from abroad from the first days of the war and to this day, that is, our international partners they help at the ministerial level and at the level of museums and at the level of public organizations of the initiatives, and i think the strength is precisely that it was not centralized all year and thus helped, well, everyone

managed to help as much as possible, but here we are going to gather with initiatives soon to understand why we helped, who could have fallen out of focus, talk, compile certain such analytics on the help that was provided, that is , such help has already been provided, and we hope that it will come this year, if last year it was the first literal materials, then with the arrival of the generators themselves throughout the year, this is state aid for financial support for employees, so this year it is important to continue from the point of view of international partnership, but it is also important to strengthen ukrainian institutions by participating in international conferences, organizations, because the hand of e- e

of the russian world. it is extremely advanced in all international cultural institutions, if we are talking about cultural diplomacy , they know very little about ukraine. presented ukraine to international organizations and, in particular, called for the exclusion of russia from international organizations, in particular, such as unesco icon, because terrorists have no place in such organizations. olga gonchar, director of the museum of theory, territory of terror , founder of the museum crisis center , this is where our air with antin ends, but the air espresso as a whole of course continues and it continues with the verdict with serhiy rudenko wait do not switch glory to ukraine this is the verdict program my name is serhiy rudenko good day everyone and good health