[000:00:00;00] is a legal definition and already prove it to the point that the matter is really uh, this problem just went into some legal corner, and it went into a corner that i think we will be able to solve because what is this problem, what is it , well, first of all in order for us to make changes to the criminal code. and there is a working group that has been working on this for a very long time. i know that there is now a big debate about what kind of crimes against the environment are these in general, for this we have direct communication with the attorney general's office because for the attorney general in ecocide - this is the main topic of recognition of yacicide in order for us to settle this issue at the national level , that is, in order for us to have all the evidence, that is, for example, if we talk about the mass death of dolphins, we are talking about it as a result of armed aggression . this is a very difficult topic, how to prove that dolphins died as a result of military aggression. and

for this you need to do a-a and take time to transfer parts accordingly to our expert in data management and assessment of the impact of military actions on the environment p dmytro how to prove that dolphins died as a result of military operations, what kind of data should be collected, see, when military operations are underway, it is very difficult . and we need evidence, evidence is laboratory research, for example. that's why i'm afraid that we won't be able to prove some of these cases in international courts, unfortunately, because if there is no access to the object where the environmental incident happened now because he can change the stanza , so we can no longer hmm not catch this moment when the substance has already turned into other compounds, you understand, and that's why we

use a slightly different approach now in order to understand the price of this aggression for the environment. we calculate using satellite data, for example, it concerns forest fires. well, first of all, it is very easy to calculate, and this is already proof because we have a satellite image, an image. we have an understanding of where these lines pass of the front and it can be used as evidence such moments yes, but if something concerns point such objects, then it will be more difficult if there is no access, but for example, oh, oh, already liberated territories kyiv region, chernihiv region, sumy region, kharkiv region, part of zhytomyr region, where there was damage to industrial facilities, and where there was damage to forests or

fires due to hostilities, and they are already partially accessible where demining has taken place to collect evidence. that is , the state environmental inspection is already there already going to the place, drawing up a protocol and collecting samples and collecting questions state ecological inspection yes point yes but uh, such as satellite data - it is collected by various organizations, including international organizations, because including ours, which united a number of international organizations for this is a single project of such surveillance, which is called what surveillance? yes, it is available. and if something can be planted on the internet, they flock somewhere to one center, the operational headquarters of operations, crimes during environmental inspection, which was created, well, the state of ukraine owns this data, it can use it and have access there - at what point should our data be open in general ms. yuliya uh-uh allow me to ask you a question we have already

talked to you we we we we we know everything that is called in the legal context who is responsible if in the sense of war crimes it is clear who is the defendant, the aggressor state, who is the defendant. and if the crime concerns ecocide, it depends again . if it is a result of armed aggression , then the defendant is the aggressor . yes. the most important thing is to prove who is directly responsible for the fact that this pollution occurred, it can be completely different, from an individual to

a legal entity, i.e. a completely different fish, an organization or a personal person who is in the chernobyl zone of the chernobyl nuclear power plant who was there in march of last year and there it led to undesirable for us to harmful environmental consequences, of course , because we all know that russian the representatives buried themselves in the appropriate forest that carries radiation pollution and it is clear that all these particles have a negative impact on the environment directly. therefore, this is absolutely not their environmental impact on the good, it is conditionally completed. and now the largest nuclear power plant in europe zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and i am in the hands of the invaders temporarily, i hope and i am sure even but what to do about it or can our state do something can our state in cooperation with international partners do something about this somehow give glad in this situation well if we

we say again, now the attack of the russian federation is a terrorist aggression against negotiating with a terrorist, we all understand that there is no point in finding common ground , it is difficult enough for us because our president is as much as possible we speak clearly and openly about all the problems and are looking for the support of megated, who were involved in all the processes, were invited directly so that they were and they visited zaporizhia, and there is a station. people work there under occupation, they continue to work, people directly understand that there can be any projectile, whatever - what moment to fly in. then there is a blackout, which can also lead to further negative changes, a lot of different factors, which, unfortunately, can lead to the biggest disaster of great efficiency stores structure as a general subject can be i will tell you that ukraine usually it is now generally in the center of all geopolitical changes and e unfortunately, the security format, the format of the work of some international organizations, we have

to review the world should review because really unfortunately, the ineffectiveness of a number of international organizations directly and affects the lives of people, the lives of ukrainians, not the lives of citizens, the lives of europeans, because when we talk about ecology, we are not only talking about the ecological state of our country, we are talking about the ecology of europe about the ecology of the world ecology is natural systems that do not know borders and sometimes even less than that and by the way , mr. dmitriev, this is probably a question for you because you are dealing with data, is there any data, does it feel well, for example, europe, well, in general, our the region, the impact of this war in some sense, i don’t know, emissions, deterioration of ecological indicators

, yes, of course, it feels, er, it’s not only europe that feels these changes. e future generations will still have these problems to feel on oneself, for example, forest fires, the same forest fires that occurred due to hostilities, yes , this is the transfer of pollutants over long distances , this is what we report on, each country reports every year, the conventions of according to the yemeb protocol , this pollution is not going anywhere, it does not remain only on the territory of ukraine, it is developing. this is how we remember the sea of ​​azov, the water area of ​​the black sea is now under great threat, because we see that just a few days ago, what was happening in the port of kherson in oil to of course, because of russian shelling. and before that, there was

a leak of sunflower oil in the buski estuary, it all got into the black sea . the black sea is not only ukraine and russia, it is germany or countries, including countries of the european union and nato countries, and all these countries will feel these consequences. okay, but then i have a question, was there perhaps some recent precedent in history when someone was brought to justice? i just i remember and they tell me about the middle east, where they were attacked by cancer, they were attacked by oil fields , but as far as court cases are concerned, it is precisely court cases of prosecution. iraq due to the fact that they were forced to, er, these military

installations, military bases, were arranged in such a way that from time to time they had to burn the waste of their bases, among them there were also toxic soldiers who did not know about it reported and so many of them returned there, including those with certain stages of oncology, and there were these lawsuits, well, in the usa , we know that, in principle, it is a legal state and you can sue anyone, forget what it seems , were there lawsuits in europe, were there any lawsuits in the world at all when the one who made them ecologically was brought to justice, i will tell you that there are few such precedents. unfortunately, what is this connected with? well, first of all, we are guided by the fact that, for the most part , national legislation is imperfect , but in almost all countries, it is just right responsible for crimes against nature, but not in all countries, is ecocide yes, yes, yes, just the crime that will lead to death and environmental disaster, and the formula is important

, because recently belgium also adopted this law, and according to which it is very important to find such an optimal option to balance the situation in the country because they react differently to it because it is possible as you correctly said, the consequence of war crimes a can be due to irresponsible activity or even illegal activity why a is an important point because we are under at the time when i spoke and held a hearing in the committee on the impact of the war on the environment, similar hearings were held by the french national assembly on the same day in the national assembly, a document was adopted that supported the creation of the tribunal, because it is to find the model from which the tribunal is responsible, which we really maybe the light will come, the environmental tribunal is in international law. the head of the foreign policy committee and i discussed that there is a so-called environmental tribunal, but it is actually on paper because there was even a meeting with

a man in whom he devoted his whole life to working as a snack - this is the famous william berlon, a lawyer from france, he worked in brazil and he wanted to prove that there was a corresponding crime against humanity, epoxy, but they wanted him to make the destruction of forests the fifth type of crime, absolutely true, absolutely it's true, it's absolutely true, but he lost, he didn't prove that this is a crime against humanity and cocide, and he didn't want to make it the fifth type of crime, but as a unit precisely within the framework of this crime against humanity, he didn't that it was a crime about this humanity and katsy because it directly affects the health of a person and that's all i hear. from you i understand it, i definitely hope that our viewers understand that there is a certain legal problem of the legal definition of legal.

councils, did they lead to a further move, a further trajectory, or will it lead to the adoption of relevant laws that are so important for the world and for us, it is absolutely true that i will once again return international recognition if we talk further about international criminal courts, tribunals, everything else and recognition yes, and receiving reparations in the future for just those crimes on the national level, it is very important that we very correctly and accurately recorded, opened all criminal proceedings, had an evidence base, had confirmation from international experts, this is also very important because if we have confirmation international experts, we can really prove this case in court in the future, yes, yes, yes, at the national level , we will correct this collision. we will also implement as much as possible at all levels, from the government to the activities of all relevant structures , but in general, in order to

move forward, we need to create an international tribunal, and now this is one of the main tasks. on international platforms , my colleagues and i are talking about it, but it is very important to create it, they are already actively working on it, and just yesterday, the united states announced that in the near future, we are sure that it will such a crime was created and many countries officially emphasize their positions on this, but another question is how exactly will crimes against the environment be included in this international cry, will a separate environmental tribunal be created because international law allows us stupid questions yes yes and what i chose from everything you said, it is potentially useful and interesting for us viewers . excuse me

, you are the experts, and we are here. legislation, in particular, russia can be brought to justice and simply pay reparations for the people's ecological damage. true yes. and please tell me. when you talk to the defenders who document war crimes there, you very often come across such a very serious virtue. these are really virtues and i respect them. to people as objectivity and when you ask a question , a russian soldier committed a war crime , he is guilty. what will be the crime, some pause before answering, some say that

justice is for all, will those from ukrainians or ukrainians, i do not know subjects who do harm, including the sale of war according to this legislation, be brought to justice, is it possible to do it potentially for the sake of objectivity, russia, the enemy and the aggressor, unequivocally confirms and does, including, ecological damage , does the ecology suffer from the actions of ukraine? i am not saying the ukrainian army in any case, but ukrainians, of course, citizens like you and me, for example, it will happen in ukraine someday, a moment is possible after the war, when a ukrainian who damages the environment can because of this, well, let's say go to court, maybe get a fine, so, so, such a moment, and now. well, what

can you say about black people, it means there are some amber brothers, car washes and so on, even though our legislation provides the fines are very significant, so what needs to be done in order for this legislation to work, at least after the war ? do you think this is a complex problem? valid legislation with clear by-laws that worked, that is, if we say that for ecocide, the responsibility is from 8 to 15 years, and for that, if it is really important , it is included in the criminal code for this. but the most difficult thing in this is to prove that it is exactly ecocide, and for this they can and for this, it is necessary to work out precisely so that this and this norm, not only during the military period, it surrenders to martial law, it is precisely the norm for the fact that every citizen of ukraine does not have the right

to commit crimes against nature, therefore everyone has bear responsibility if he really committed a crime, and that is why the issue of legislation is the most important here. yes, we are all focused now on the fact that we are trying to bring the russian federation to justice for the same horrors that it commits and genocytococytes, everything else, but it is very important that this legislation works internally for every citizen and every citizen knew that if he commits, that is, if he clogs the water bodies as much as possible, it will lead to the mass death of fish and everything else. this garbage will land somewhere next and a person can lead to the next chain that the next representative of our fauna is dying, so it is very important that it works for this, it is clear that it is necessary, as i said , to regulate the legislation , by-laws, and secondly, that all law enforcement

agencies, courts, and- a work we are now continuing to move. of course. and i have a notebook. i literally have a question for the beginning of the last block of our conversation, and it concerns the fact that there is a war going on right now. if we have other priorities, we have to protect the state. we must not let the aggressor kill us all here er raise his ugly tricolor there and so on, but can we, under the guise of these absolutely positive and good goals, forget about ecology so that each of us understands that we have departed from the soviet postulate that a-a you know that nature works for us, no , we are visiting nature here, and it is very important that the most probable thing is that in the report of the united nations organization , it is precisely the programs from the environment, they wrote that ukraine will remain for a long time with a toxic

ecological legacy for future generations all that, even after the war, we still have a very long time, the state of ukraine, it is called after the war, who will want the products that are grown on clogged, taken land, and this is, accordingly , the european course, where everything is happening with pro-oriented solutions with a green circular economy with the inclusion of an ecological component, all industries if we have clearly chosen european courses of development for ourselves, so we have to review how our further green recovery will be . count on state or possibly international support in order for this land after the end of the deoccupation, after the enemy has been driven out of the country or driven there some 200-300 km or maybe even 500 and its ee so that the state or

some international organization they also supported this land, this area was cleared. well, how is it possible, i don’t know what technologies exist now, this is possible, but what about in the framework of receiving reparations, you understand. i’ll just give you a few numbers that were calculated. and we took all the front lines for each day. yes, and counted 10 km in each direction from the front line. these are the lands that are polluted and polluted by explosions and munitions. pollution by mining and damage by heavy military equipment . we counted three times because it is 14 incredible 14 and a half million hectares of land. yes, it is

24%, and the area of ​​ukraine is a quarter, yes , it is almost a quarter of the area of ​​ukraine. except that it is temporarily occupied, yes , somewhere, it is only 10 km in each direction, and how much more pollution can there be, because artillery can reach 20 km. our methods from soil damage and this is not yet chemical pollution, it is just damage to the top layer of the soil that counts, it is approximately 25 billion dollars, 25 billion dollars, then only the soils

and how much more do you need to spend on mine clearance, so that these lands become available for agriculture, how much more money do we lose because we cannot produce these products? of course, of course, after the war, farmers can count on compensation for hmm, this money, which is damage itself, but you do you understand that farmers, after receiving a certain amount of money , i don't know how he will have it, it will be targeted funds, he will have exactly this, i don't know how it is land regeneration, what is the correct name for reclamation , well, reclamation of your plot yes yes yes absolutely, that is, in this way, we can, well, do something somewhere, and then who will deal with the water bodies that farmers may not belong

to the state, but gentlemen, before we finish, i would like to ask one more question, because i always like to ask such a question, has it been cultivated or implemented, or if , as part of any new or updated legislation, it is also provided for to change some intentions to change what is called ecological consciousness, the ecological consciousness of ukrainians, are any educational school programs planned or can be planned educational programs - this is understandable because in order to develop young children as in this context what will be done or is already being done i support the concept of ecological families ecological country you know february 23, the day before the start of a full-scale invasion, we

decided to create a group at a meeting of the environmental policy committee about the development of the concept of environmental education, because the strategy is already outdated in the country, it must be updated together with the committee of education and science, and i will tell you that it was clear that the problem of starting this work was because of the war, but we talked with colleagues and not with the ministry, with the public, now it is very important to review the standards for studying in preschool and higher education , because in particular, in higher education , the number of hours in the most ecological discipline is constantly decreasing, this is not correct, and we understand that all programs must be informal education from public associations , a course on the humanization of society is currently being prepared, holding e-lessons for schoolchildren about e-e how to humanize society in relation to animals, that is, for domestic animals in order to to make people kinder, that is, individual individual small initiatives

, but it is very important that this reform of the formation of environmental education culture through environmental education was passed at the state level in the updated strategy, the existing document, but it needs to be reorganized, taking into account european norms, but everything starts with the family as we belong to the european union, international structures require us to adopt such a requirement, yes. that is, it is a condition, it is within the framework of our accession to the eu. yes, yes, i even i will say more about our donors, donor countries, when they develop any projects, reconstruction projects , for example, now in ukraine, for example, great britain is currently funding such projects a lot, so not a single project is developed without an ecological component, this is their demand, gentlemen, i can’t be with you indefinitely

to talk, the topic is absolutely relevant, interesting and very important. unfortunately, the airtime is not infinite, we have reached the end, i want to say to yuri, you said that there would be a special program to humanize people , you know, about a month ago at this table they talked to two psychologists, but what did the war do to us, what will happen to us after , and they were both two experts and said that, as a rule , a certain period of humanity comes after major wars. i hope that for ukraine it will not be only a certain period , but novagra in including humanity not only to people, but also to nature, environmentalism , ecological hormonality, i think that it will come , it is important and thank you for the fact that your work allows you to contribute to this development

, i thank you for the conversation and i remind you that today about ecology even during the war. we talked with the guests in the studio. this is yuliya ovchinnikova, a member of the people's deputy of the committee on environmental policy and nature management and dmytro averin, an expert in data management and assessment of the impact of military actions on the environment. time of air alarm children always take over the condition of adults, so it is important to remain calm if the child is nervous explain that it

is safe in the shelter and there is no need to be afraid to reduce stress level, try to occupy the little one with moving games, you can involve other children who are nearby, do not forbid the child to ask questions or share memories , allow him to speak and show emotions, and after that, calm the child down, tell us about the strength of our army and the victory of our state, now there are children's tales about the air defense of ukraine under no circumstances raise your voice our strength is in unity we support the armed forces we will donate a volunteer we are fighting for ours the same we more than a million ukrainians need housing you have the opportunity to accept refugees from the war zone is only an announcement on the website of the shelter victory is one for all shelter yours like a ray under the palm of a child the light in ukraine does not disappear

it hides in small and large boxes in an endless web of connections and in hiding places with a characteristic sound because light he chooses places from where he does not want to go then those who are sad in the dark come to him the light knows how to be friends with the best only from them it does not run away only they allow themselves to be shared and let the light still hide from us we already know how it