[000:00:00;00] it is not support on the battlefield, it is important, well, something better than helicopters and su-25, something more powerful, it would be very useful for those leopards that we get and other things, after all, there is at least one class of missiles that uh, with which everything ground means against air defense are still not working well - this is the x22, after all, it seems that way, it is better to shoot down planes. well, then they said that i was 16 - this is the best option because it is universal, one plane can be such a front-line stormtrooper and can be air defense aircraft a now something else, but in general , this discussion about airplanes says that the sky can really be reliably closed and

the second offensive of the ground forces can really be at such a deep operational depth, that it is planned, that it is similar. yes, there are no other interpretations, because after all this discussion has progressed much more than could have been expected a few weeks ago, that is, from our side, those who talked about airplanes knew something. challengers if there wasn't this hair-trigger rollback that actually let's say so and there will be such ones later even ma- almost after the war, that is , can we talk about the fact that, after all, the question from the point of view of britain was not worked out in such detail that there would be such a wow effect immediately after zelensky's stay in london well, it is not clear here that britain is promoting

its own aircraft, but actually britain does not have its own aircraft. there is a lot of participation in european aircraft in european aircraft. to make such a catalyst for the provision of aircraft, but what i think i have heard in these european discussions regarding fighter aircraft well, here the language of non-combatants in general, combat aircraft is something so new compared to leopards, there is an impression that there is competition, even competition and even one of the european leaders is he said something. it seems that he said it. there is no need to create competition between the partners of ukraine who will provide more and better weapons. there is a feeling that the issue is being resolved. which plane is european? either the american or another will be called the victory plane, there is something like that here, or it will be the european or, well, the eurofighter

, the tornado, like the older version, or it will be the gripen, or the f16, or the rafale, because something is here. it seems to me that it is from this discussion. which plane will be given to ukraine, so britain seems to have catalyzed this process, and i don't see such a defense and industrial interest of britain in this catalysis. will remove otaki industrial cream from the ukrainian victory. that is, once in one of the broadcasts you quite interestingly assessed the prospects of germany, which is now a thai catalyst, which is creating a tank coalition around itself. and now the impression is that it is possible that germany or another country will become a catalyst just from around the aviation project, and we are talking again about european countries and not about american countries. does

this mean that the americans actually remain in the shadow of this process or, in principle, they look at this process so that the overall activation of the european industrial defense, and the americans are completely satisfied with this. i think at this stage they are completely satisfied, as long as the war goes on, after all, there is an internal american debate about how much they give to help ukraine , how much the europeans give, and here there is a question of justice, who will give? and that's why i think directly now the americans do not have such a goal, but to give their plane and make well, if the situation is like that, it is already known that all the markets that could be occupied by them and occupied by them about the f-35, of course, now we cannot talk about ukraine, well, it’s just as dark, and in order to get the f-35, you have to participate

in its purchases there, you have to finance this process, it’s such a collective collective work and it’s so expensive, but as for the interests of the americans, i think there is such a division of interests between the europeans and the united states because the united states is entering into action with its defense industry when it comes to ukraine's membership in nato, in a certain ukraine states on the european market. it was connected with the expansion of nato and the expansion of the nac there. the united states is what creates . actually, this process of expansion is the main force. they have the first, well, the role of the first violin in this process of re-equipment. and now there is something else. it still seems

after all, the united states gives this competition to the europeans, and there it turns out that well, if there is a competition, it will be a competition of the eurofighter typhoon against the french er-e rafales. conference if we talk about different interests and functions, it is britain, germany, the rafale is france, well, judging by how they all support this idea together, there is still no competition, everyone supports the idea that ukraine needs airplanes, and who gets them? well, everything is just so hectic it is developing that it is difficult to say what other interests there are beyond the second bottom, the third bottom, and what is next. well, then , if we say what is there, i also have potential competition from producers. and there are real needs of ukraine that speak of what is necessary

accumulate forces and carry out offensive operations with real air support, we understand that the acquisition of aircraft is stretched over time, and counteroffensive operations will ideally begin there in the spring and summer if we effectively withstand the russian onslaught, and the same ben wallace, the british minister of defense, says that it is necessary now look at other means that ukraine needs, long-range means, impressions, possible unmanned systems, other systems, that is, you mentioned the shadow storm as one of the options for solving the long-range problem there for destruction objects of the enemy, is there any understanding what other solutions from the side of britain or european countries would be the most relevant right now in view of the actual needs of the armed forces in preparing for a counteroffensive and, well, solving tasks on the battlefield well, already in the short term, well, me

it's hard to say here, i'm just not that well versed in these issues, what is needed on the battlefield, uh, it seems that everything is given, and after these, how better to call the ground bombs, which are for high-mars, yes, 150 km, now the side is up to 500 km, and it's really well, it pushes and pushes away destroys the communications and logistics of this war for russia, they are forced to much more . well, it will be very difficult for them to spend analogies and maintain the offensive. i think that if we talk about the strategy of our partners, there is already uh. what's on the front and what's in the economy and what's in politics here , well, we just now see what you were talking about. all last year, that the sanctions will work, they will work, but in january they started

, well, really working there is so deep the deficit of the russian budget is so deep, the drop in revenues and the increase in expenses is so high that it is not known how much russia is supported in such an offensive mode . russia also seems to be forced to hurry with this offensive. and that is why what is needed on the front. well, what is it that will destroy the attempt of a russian offensive and what will open a perspective for the ukrainian contrast. but if we talk about whether aviation will have time, well, we are now. it turns out that our pilots are training on foreign planes. i don't know which ones, but they have been training for a long time, so i do not rule out that and the planes will be there on time, but whether they will be depends on what russia will have on the field, because if it does not have front-line aviation

, then it is possible to safely advance with armored vehicles with the support of artillery and missiles. if russia has front-line aviation, it will preserve and demonstrate something there then aviation will really be needed and more well, but it seems to me that russia does not have such high capabilities for aviation support of its own ground operations , based on the fact that they even seem to have taken su-25s from belarus because they that is not enough. well, i cannot say for sure. i think everything will be fine. and here the processes that are taking place are simply so fast , but with the comprehensive support of ukraine

. to this respectable body in this respectable body of european politics, that's why the events here are just very, very fast, and then uh, paralysis, then uh, the last question in this program is about what our victory should look like then, or does it coincide the vision is ours with what the european partners see in accordance with how this war should end, the question is difficult if possible answer briefly will be simple it 's brilliant we see that now oleksiy does not hear us let's continue the conversation with them, but i will remind our viewers that on the air of the espresso channel, there was oleksiy the hedgehog, experts from the national institute of strategic

studies, well, that's right, oleksiy is on the air, if in principle there is a clear understanding of whether the ukrainian vision of peremo coincides, and whether there is a vision is this the case with the european and american partners, do these vectors converge at some clear, unambiguous point? well, i think so, judging by what is happening now in this discussion about aircraft. i think that the understanding is that ukraine must win and win quickly enough . in six months, all the issues will be resolved. i think that this is being resolved now, and this is inspiring , despite the conditions in which we are now, well , at least i spend now. i'm delighted with this discussion about planes. it's just that i didn't expect it, frankly, then it's time everyone. thank you for your optimism, we shared a little of this optimism with us, so i think that

we will withstand this missile attack, we will get new planes with new capabilities, we will really achieve victory on the battlefield in a short time period of time, i will remind you that the final of espresso will be broadcast with us. oleksiy ezhyak, expert of the national institute of strategic studies, worked with us. and now we are joined by oleksandr los, former head of the antonov concern, doctor of technical sciences, and now captain of the banned forces , which takes care of the promising directions of the development of the ukrainian army, oleksandr. i congratulate you seriously. is he really pragmatic enough, or do you actually evaluate these calls of the president of ukraine to receive western aircraft and the reaction of a number of

countries in britain, poland, the netherlands regarding the transfer of these planes but a little later than that, although the ukrainian side will receive your assessment of this such an interesting historical week, first of all i want to thank the hedgehog for his joy, which is based on essentially almost a year's work, and believe me, that is the issue of attracting foreign planes fighter jets to ukraine , it didn't even start last year. at least i personally only worked on it for three years, and before that i also had specialist colleagues who specialized directly in air force aviation. i am sure that it was already a decade ago that the president's visit was, in fact, already such that he already sums up certain results under the tectonic work that was done in order to politically consolidate the issue of obtaining combat aircraft and today

showed how much it is needed because it is clear that with each even missile attack when the aircraft operates in the mode of essentially air defense itself against missile fighter aircraft is one of the most important components because it allows you to raise missiles into the sky and not detect the position of ground launchers installations that are quite important for the same missiles for aerial reconnaissance of the enemy and so on. but at the same time, when we talk about airplanes, suddenly there is a proposal from britain to offer some airplanes in the future. we don't know yet, there is a concept related to the fact that there are a lot of f16s, give us f16s , the gripper appears again. and it seems that now we somehow don't have such a stable internal concept, and we

respond to those proposals that can align on the part of our partners to what extent such an approach is optimal in these conditions and still, is it possible to somehow balance the real needs of ukraine with the proposals of our partners in order to get what we really need in this case since we are and will be for some time to be in a very active phase of the war, now , as they say, we will divide the unfinished work into two stages . i am reading your articles with pleasure, i liked the word zoo of military equipment, well, it was, of course, on the example of leopards and cheetahs and so on from the german uh , the word zoo is from the german, so this zoo, that is, the diversity is very huge

, the nomenclature and uh cannon weapons artillery weapons, missile weapons, armored weapons , it is caused right now by the fact that they give us what they can give immediately, or at least with some delay , more or less acceptable in our state. when we simply have our former soviet military combat equipment is running out, our stocks are running out, and as you and i are reading, the stocks of even the united states of america are starting to run out, so in this case, as they say, i will not put any scientific and technical expediency in the first place. of course, as it happened before the start of the war when the work was carried out from a scientific point of view and i substantiated justified and in the future my colleagues at e-e universities and so on people's deputies ask my opinion and precisely from

the point of view of mathematical grounding and what it is you, of course, i would say that how is it currently, and we can choose , i would still say that we need an aircraft comparable to the 157 and 135s, this is the f 15i and a light patrol aircraft on a daily basis, what do i call it, let it be in 16 let it be for example, it will also be armed, it seven is generally the cheapest to operate, so earlier it sounded of course and thunder, but then we and you and we together with er understood that we are fixing it is produced in such small batches that for the needs of the ukrainian air force we simply did not have time to appear before because they are not outdated by the way, it sounds like a eurofighter, the problem with the fighter is that it has some of the best technical characteristics, but the bureaucratic system in which it was created led to

the fact that france was the first to come out and create a similar aircraft. on well, i will not exaggerate almost 10 years earlier and with almost the same efficiency but it is cheaper to operate, it is cheaper and it is devoid of the burden of administrative bureaucratic influence in which the eurofighter was created although, from a purely technical aviation point of view, the eurofighter is also quite perfect, the plane is one of the few that provide supercruise among the fourth generation, that is , the ability to move at supersonic speed without turning on the afterburner engines and so on. that is, it is so much a vector optimization scheme that even ot once again, at this stage, acts of the war phase are active, even i would refrain from this, because it is simply redundant, i will not say too much redundant information that only

postpones the receipt by ukraine so much of the necessary combat aviation equipment, well, the logic is clear. here the logic is clear, so there is a middle ground, the question arises , the british prime minister recently announced that the training program of the ukrainian military will be expanded precisely for the pilot of fighter aircraft, then the question arises whether it is possible to ensure the training process at all without understanding at the current stage which aircraft the ukrainian army is receiving, or is it possible to somehow balance these two trends so that they really intersect somewhere at the right point well , first of all, let's use all with intelligence signs, prime minister rishi sumy did not say about a specific type of aircraft, he said that the ukrainian pilot will be trained. one of the most important components of the first stage of training is the mastering of the so-called english gravity, that is , a special abbreviated aviation english

language, it is another thing to prepare, of course our pilots have to learn it because they will have to somehow interact, firstly , well, actually, with the equipment itself, or secondly , they must also interact with the radio channel , radio communication, obviously, with foreign means of control and so on, so there will have to be a very big emphasis on this, further, basic basic training , regardless of the aircraft, theoretically, well, i perfectly understand that the first-year pilots of the kharkiv national university will not go there, the business force will be directed to enough by the way as the president correctly said , the pilot will be sent as he already has two and a half years of training, well, this is in quotes, of course, but he turned rationally in this, and then when

the pilots learn the first two necessary the stages really need to be switched, but i think that even the decisions have already been made and at the moment final agreements are being made between the united states of great britain and the european partners regarding exactly what type of aircraft, what is the first type of aircraft that will enter the air force of ukraine. the thesis that there is actually a behind-the-scenes competition between aircraft manufacturers, which plane will be the victory of ukraine plane, according to him in a certain way, it creates a certain heat of debate among europeans, and perhaps that is exactly why he says that there will be competition between the same yarofaider there or the french rafa, precisely on the trolleys of the possibilities of european manufacturers. do you share this approach that the industrial circles of those or

other countries and they will influence the choice of the aircraft that ukraine receives after a certain period of time. i am sure that this will continue to happen as it was and in uh before a large-scale offensive, this is human nature, with this, it is necessary the so-called government, i.e. relations with the government and the leadership of the developing countries. of course, this is to some extent a normal business process , as far as it is possible to use the word normal in relation to ukraine . we forget about each other, this is the prestige of the winner, but we must not forget that in war there are always combat losses, and the example of one of the ukrainian partners of friends of ukraine at the first stage of the war showed that efforts to raise their prestige turned 180°.

and this is also remembered by the developers and specialists in the united states and in the countries of the european union, of course, and then there is one more question, the question says that we can hand over the planes somewhere at a later stage, now the task is to solve more urgent needs at will and that the minister of defense volya says that the task can be solved by long-range means and unmanned systems or accept the concept at the current stage for such a concept. and if so, by what examples can it be analyzed through the prism short-term, these are not immediate needs of the armed forces of ukraine, we continue the opinion with pleasure listening to a certain hedgehog that this is also such a mix of feelings, visions, opinions of politicians in particular, and this is a question of how long

the sharp, hot phase of russia's war against ukraine will be prolonged, how long will they allow it to be done our partners allow the russian federation to do this, it is a component of combat aviation , it is so critical on the battlefield that replacing its anti-aircraft missile systems is like a component of ppopereo or rocket artillery or simply even of foreign foreign missiles missiles land e-e land land is practically impossible well, you can say that it will lead in order to achieve the same efficiency of use , it will be necessary to release, let's say, not one but three years - and in the case of ukraine, the issue is not even the price in money, it is also very critical simply because of the physical presence of these ammunitions, the presence of missiles, the presence of rockets, and

so on, therefore, of course, the plane as a combat platform is a carrier of missile and bomb weapons. it has the highest percentage of the probability of being hit, because simply can approach from the side from where the probability of interception is the least, approach as close as possible and make a targeted, accurate launch, and in order to do this by means of foreign means, you need to have very good intelligence, which we talk about with you all the time, space intelligence, first of all , development with the help of unmanned aerial vehicles e devices, but which already today cannot come so close to the impact zone because the russians are creating an effective echeloned anti-aircraft defense starting

from the well-known words on the ear panzer is close radius beech medium s300 s400 and so on they are russians will be competent and whoever tries to belittle their i will not say perfection but technical equipment he simply manipulates public opinion if the volume did not actually do it only harms precisely in those us those in those tectonic efforts which the president of ukraine is doing in order to persuade our western partners to the widest and fastest supply of equipment and long-range missiles, mr. oleksandr please comment on this passage by oleksiy ezhyak regarding what is the question of helicopters is also at the stage there is number two, is it possible to put on the agenda right there combat helicopters that could support ground offensive operations or issues with helicopters are even more difficult than the issue with aviation the closer is

manned combat equipment ground air to the line one of the reasons for a combat encounter is the more difficult it is to get such combat equipment - it's the same if some of them were lobbied or, let's say, western colleagues did not claim that it was the last it's not scary. for example, on the 16th, the russian federation will be fired upon, or a combat helicopter will be captured by the russians and dismantled to pieces. no, believe me, this is a very important question, and american colleagues and british colleagues are still thinking about it very much, and it is still clear that the most modern technology. well, for example, i at the time, when i was directly involved in this issue, as an official, i did not even raise

the question of obtaining the most modern examples of military equipment from the united states or europe out of respect from an ethical point of view because this is simply an incorrect statement of the question , ah, mr. oleksandr , it is clear, and then here are the extreme questions in the program they were engaged in this, and the question was raised. so, how much is needed for the preparation of the planes, and excuse the pilots, i answered that it was at least six months, everyone's head fell on how long it was, a year, we keep hearing again that it is a year, six months, two years, and so on. case, i think that we, as specialists, from our side, we, for our highest politicians , officials for president

volodymyr oleksandrovich zelenskyi, have already created a fairly solid foundation on which he can stand firmly and already demand, i just can’t say ask in this case as soon as possible supply how long will it be six months 9 months it is already beyond my competence i do not want to turn into a fortune teller mr. oleksandr thank you for including for your comments to our viewers i think that the broadcast espresso channels was oleksandr los, a doctor of technical sciences and a captain of the armed forces. so we understand that the issue of obtaining combat aircraft is on the agenda, the political leadership is doing everything possible to make it happen as quickly as possible. we won on the battlefield, these were the main results of the conversation about military western fighter jets for ukraine, and later on