[000:00:00;00] most people live, but they always look to the west anyway. they always say that we want negotiations, that is, putin , somehow this hooligan tries to constantly engage in escalations, to push so that he will be noticed, because otherwise it is impossible to notice him . only when he threatens nuclear weapons missiles and so on and to sit down for negotiations with him, that is, from this point of view , they actually want some kind of negotiations with the west, but in their twisted logic and imagination, and north korea, you understand, it still exists due to the fact that it helps them there and contributes in many ways to china. i mean in the economic sense, and thanks to this they are supported. i am not sure that china will be ready to take on what is called the support of russia. i think that they have other tasks or then in this scenario

the territory of russia controlled by putin will be controlled by putin, it will actually turn into smaller borders, because more resources then russia will simply have to give to the same china for guaranteeing certain economic checks. processes and financial markets and raw materials and many other things. and now it is very difficult for them to reorient it all by suddenly closing down and reorienting it somewhere, especially because they did not speak when buying and selling oil in china, and so on. well, it is extremely difficult and there is no success in they reoriented it somewhere, as far as it is now decisive and will be the decisive position of china because there is a collective event of more than 50 countries participating in rammstein, a meeting as in

the rammstein format, it is clear that the anti-putin the coalition is much more than an anti-hitler coalition, and it is clear in this situation. on whose side is the power , but this player is a big player, china, which is waiting for the results of the russian-ukrainian war, is it obvious that it is hesitating and paying attention to the warning of the united states of america, because it is clear that the chinese economy is tied to the american one, it is clear that china is trying to use russia in the war against e collective measures not only against ukraine according to your how much in the next few months this the position can either change or to what extent it can be decisive, because it is clear that with the format of the anti-putin coalition, russia will not be overflowing. well, i agree that china really

belongs to china, in principle, to a certain extent, the war is profitable, why? one is that they increase russia's dependence on china no matter what and get cheaper raw materials for themselves, and at the same time reduce the military power of russia, which also has borders , and i want to remind you that it should not be russia, but in the soviet union and china, in principle, for quite a long time had difficult relations in the sense of security, and not only there, borders and the like. well, but now there is less of that , so it is beneficial for the chinese on the other side of china , it is beneficial to be some kind of irritant for the west, what would it be if not china itself directly, that is, russia is at war, all questions are for russia, russia is waging a military struggle, its people are dying, it is losing its resources, and china is also losing its resources. i think he will wait for a certain moment when

there will be a border where china already it will cease to be profitable due to the possibility of growth - this is a direct collision of the sign with the nato countries, that's when china, i think, can declare itself and say in a certain sense that go to negotiations with me, not with putin. you see, i think that in fact i tried to understand for myself for a long time and why these chinese balloons flew to america on the eve of state secretary blinkin's visit to china. it is completely illogical when it would seem that it is possible to look for a russian trail, but it seems to me that china is trying to seize the initiative in the sense that if there is a multipolar world, then russia is not in it, there is a player china and the united states, and if we talk about something in the future with russia, then we need to talk about it, including taking into account the factors of china, they also raise the stakes in a certain way , but chinese politicians are definitely smarter

than russian ones, and i think that in their interests do not include the development of this war into something more and there will be a limit where they will be ready more, i think to influence the position of russia in order to stop this aggression. thank you, alexander, for the conversation. it was alexander busienko, director of the center for military and legal research, friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our social networks, for those who are currently watching on youtube and facebook, please like this video, subscribe to our pages, and you, friends, can become sponsors youtube channel of the espresso tv channel, now you will see a link to which you can go to qr-codes there are detailed information about how you can join the sponsor club of the espresso tv channel

, any help from you, uh, we need and we are grateful for any help, we work for you, and in addition to the media resources you see on youtube and facebook, you can also read our news on the website from press tv, we work for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week , the most effective news from ukraine and of the world in the front chronicle in a word, everything you need to know and what you want to know you can find on our website espresso tv, and we have another guest on the call and the major general of the security service of ukraine in reserve, the former deputy head of the security service of ukraine victor yagun, generals, good day, good health to you, thank you for joining our conversation, and good health. so, general , today the statement of the chairman of the munich

security conference, christoph hussing, was heard, who said that russia should go through the process of depotinization. well, he the truth was that he spoke in the context of the restoration of german-russian relations. but i think that this applies to the future of russia in general, because we see and observe how the anti-putin coalition is formed, how it expands , but here is the question of what to do with russia after the victory of ukraine over russia or after the victory of the entire civilized world over russia , so far there is no such discussion. why do you think this discussion is being postponed for now, although this process is the process of the same where putinization can begin to understand how the victory will be framed, the victory can be in several ways, we are the first

way - this is the one that when we will be able to go to the borders of 1991 and russia will remain with its with their ambitions, but in a losing situation, it is a completely different situation when no one will lift the sanctions and the pressure on russia will continue because, er, the question is not that we what did we win, er, liberated our territory and cleared it from occupiers, and the problem is precisely in the politics of russia or its neighbors. because i understand that, for example , with a win, the issue of transnistria, abkhazia and, in general

, southern stetia in georgia, other territories that russia captured and for some reason we forget about the existence of territories still captured by soviet russia. this part of finland was smoked. is this part of estonia ? that is, it is such an interesting question, and that is why it is one moment, another moment when russia will start , well, the regime will simply collapse because it is not achieving its goal . in ukraine he could not explain to his society what he was doing there in general and why those victims were needed and under this pressure there may be a change of power and what kind of government it will be, how to communicate with it and how to treat this population is another situation and the third the situation if the processes of decentralization in russia go at such a frantic pace as once

in the 91st year in russia in the soviet union and new states will appear that will require completely different perceptions in the world and some of them, well, how will they want to take responsibility for crimes putin and his cliques, and even more so to raise questions about reparations from their side. although i believe that all of russia in this context, even in the future, should apologize to the world , primarily to ukraine, for the crimes that are now what is happening here, and the main question, mr. general, is who should sign the act of surrender of the russian federation, because it is clear that it will not be putin, but one of those people who will be trusted or at least who will inspire confidence in the institution, but now russian propagandists are again speaking very

cautiously and aggressively about the negotiations with america , in particular, solovyov discussed the relative military and technical weakness of the west, let 's see what would be agreed with the americans very desirable nuclear peppa is america with whom we can come to an agreement. now there is no answer and what answer they have is not political because he formulated that they have no military-technical readiness to respond. mr. generals , in the situation in which we are now among the 54 countries of the anti-putin coalition, there is no other way to win

or at least help ukraine to win putin and it is clear that uh, hmm, there is a big problem with the citizens of this country, who, according to sociology, although there where authoritarian, apparently, sociology does not work, but still, where the majority of citizens support putin and his aggressive policy, how to be in this situation, considering that everything - after all, we have a fairly large border with the russian federation, and even after our victory, we will still have to live next to this aggressive and stupid neighbor, the biggest problem for us is where is the militarization of the e-e zone 150 km from our border that is, who will really be responsible for the withdrawal of military units from military bases, the disbandment of new armies and divisions that were formed since the 14th year on our

borders, and the signing of treaties, not so much the signing, but the control of their implementation by the world community at the expense of that that we just really don't trust russia and the leadership, i wouldn't trust the future leadership either, because you have to understand that russia is in the state it is in now , that is, it simply cannot be imperial to change is a mental problem, and i emphasize once again that the change in russia can only be solely through its decentralization and the destruction of such a power that could threaten its neighbors in the future, that is, we actually have a huge problem and how to solve it. i wonder what

we have to go to those borders, and then what, i repeatedly show an example. we went to the borders of chernihiv, sumy, kharkiv regions , but this did us no good, because they moved literally 10-20 km from long-range artillery is pounding our e -e villages and towns that are located in the immediate vicinity of the border, that is, once again i emphasize the depoliticization of the zone around ukraine, and this applies not only to russia, but also to belarus, which participates in this story, and we also developed them ourselves, so it is impossible issues that we need to solve in the future and will solve together. and as for the international community, i understand that they are more concerned about nuclear weapons and who will

control them. i understand that the control of with these weapons, they still envisage some kind of conditional central government that should be in moscow and, if necessary , take control of the nuclear forces they have in the north, the far east and in the center of russia against the background of russia's threats to the west and ukraine on duty we see threats as one of the leaders of the terrorist organization of the private military company wagner prigozhin in his video attacks the russian leadership again and says that if it were not for the bureaucrats, he would have taken bakhmut before the new year. let's see beauty and then we will continue the conversation progress is not going as fast as it would like why is progress not going fast i think that yes but the agreement has already been taken because bakhmut if it were not

for the beast and our military bureaucracy let's say yes and not the sticks in the wheels that are spinning daily p general prigozhin with with its army parallel to the official er russian army er is the existence of such a quasi quasi state in the state er can these parallel structures that exist in russia become one of the factors that will not lead to a civil war there or to any actions disobedience or taking control of power by other people than are currently at the helm, or these armies, as they were, remain tame for putin and they will never leave the control of the president of the russian federation, the president of the russian federation wanted them to be tame and under his command and for

use in your own interests, you are in this or that city of the world. in reality, this does not happen. any army that feeds from the hands of this or that oligarch first of all obeys the one who feeds it, and such armies in russia are created much faster than they pass, we can imagine, we know about eh in wagner's army, we know partly about the army that is organized as a guard, it is the kadirovci, and we began to hear about the existence of a new private army that is allegedly controlled by him, it is the so -called victory army, but we haven't heard anything about those private armies that are now actively being created in the regions of the russian federation , the so-called territorial formations

of territorial defense, this is the second time it has become known about the creation of e-e under the guise of security structures of e-e private armies large corporations, primarily gazprom, supposedly for the protection of e-e infrastructure objects, there is information about the creation of private structures for the protection of certain e-e objects by large corporations and, in particular , those who call themselves oligarchs in russia . that is, they may already be by rough calculations up to 10 different and this is quite such an indicative fact , they cannot be controlled from one center and they can really at some point take part in eh , if not in the distribution, then eh in the protection of these or

other eh interests er, those people who therefore, in my opinion, this is positive, the more such decentralized processes there are in russia, the more problems they have with the control of these or other structures, however, it is more likely that theirs is so beautiful and seemingly monolithic e hierarchy can be sprinkled with generals, one more person who can, or rather , a person at the head of the country, a self-proclaimed president who has already directly joined the russian-ukrainian war. with putin, but the day before what lukashenko said, we will fight with ukraine only in case of aggression on belarusian territory, belarus

is not going to announce mobilization , belarusians can live completely peacefully. and he said about this regional grouping of troops that the russian military is not in belarus to to attack ukraine we remember that there were quite a lot of different statements by belarusian leaders , in particular, the minister of defense, who on february 14 , 2022, convinced various people that no troops would leave the territory of belarus russian troops, tomorrow, i understand that putin will once again speak or convince lukashenko, it is obvious that the armed forces of the republic of belarus will participate directly in the new offensive against ukraine. two days ago, lukashenko announced that

that the members of the odkb will not be able to sit down, they say that they will all have to join the russian-ukrainian war in one way or another . what do you think, will putin have enough arguments for lukashenka or will belarus be involved in the war without his knowledge and without the principled consent of lukashenka himself. i think that lukashenka will maintain the position of non-intervention until the very last moment , and realistically, if he is not replaced by a more compliant figure , why did belarus not enter the war? well, there are many factors, but one of those factors are mental. they are very afraid of a social explosion in belarus in the event of significant losses of their army. belarus is not russia, and the population of belarus will perceive losses in

wars that are incomprehensible to them, outside of belarus, not on the territory of belarus, very, very negatively, but the protest potential has always been there and will be in that population, despite the fact that it is a little different from that in ukraine, i don’t know for sure, but it still exists in russia, or you really need to provoke some kind of provocation, create some kind of bio, you say at the border, to disguise some subversive group as a ukrainian e-e in the ukrainian unity and arrange some partisan games there or really change lukashenko, this is the same thing, it is closed, but what he is provoking representatives of the odkb is, and thus i think that this is his game

in advance of when he will communicate with putin , he says listen. we have udkb. we have many countries, more than one. belarus . why do they not even critically help, but on the contrary, sometimes they sympathize with ukraine more than russia, so i think that this is a reversal. -e from the ball from one e-e field to others this is going to continue like this ping-pong i think that e-e in belarus in the near future its troops will definitely not take part in hostilities on the territory of ukraine i know mr. general that you are in control of the situation in to the belarusian army, what do the belarusians who serve in the armed forces of the republic and belarus say about the war in ukraine well, we must immediately divide that there are several such

layers yes, there are special forces, this is part of the personnel the composition of which is actually involved er, including for er pressure on the opposition they took an active part in 2020 fearing er protest actions and they are completely under the control of er lukashenka’s regime , they carry it out any er you will carry out any tasks that he can give them and they actually receive much more material incentives than other military personnel, but fortunately there are not so many of them, and up to 1.5 thousand , the largest part is still the security forces , which are also in their overwhelming majority

oriented towards lukashenko, the army itself -e, the main mass, er, she really does not want to fight, especially this applies to the er, older generation of officers who, despite some past soviet contacts with the russian army, they understand how it can all end and, accordingly, the price of three is transferred and to contract officers and junior officers, although some of the junior officers who were educated in russia, who are completely in their mental field, they know at such a level of patriotism, not understanding what is really happening in ukraine and believing the propaganda, but we, here we are, we will step right in, we will be the golden card what a fracture. but there are not so many of them and it is clear that there are some people who are open-minded, we are just observing, but they

have clearly decided for themselves that they did not intend to and will not take part in these battles why because it is either people who were involved in the former protests these are either strict workers or contract workers already after 2020 who by the way, some of them hid in the army from possible persecution in this line of service and they occupy a certain niche in to this structure, that is, if you take it like that well, up to 15% of the belarusian army of belarus is ready to fight, and here more of it, well, exactly, if it goes forward, it is not clear in which direction, whether to simply fight or surrender . the course of the war and help russia this

the army does not represent itself p generals thank you for the conversation it was the major general of the sbu in the reserve of the former deputy head of the security service of ukraine viktor yagun, friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel for those who are now watching us live on social networks, in particular on facebook and youtube e please like this video subscribe to our resources in social networks you can also become a sponsor of our youtube channel now you will see qr-codes by which you can go to join our sponsors club all the details of these links, we will be grateful to you for any help to our youtube channel, i put an end to today's program, i wish everyone good health, take care of yourself and your relatives, we will see it with you on monday

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political analytics objectively and meaningfully there is no political season exclusive interviews reports from the hottest points of the front freedom frankly and impartially draw conclusions yourself in ukraine at 2:00 p.m. news release on the espresso tv channel. greetings to all viewers in the iryna koval studio. tonight, the russians hit a critical infrastructure facility in the lviv region with three missiles. our correspondent ulyana hryshchuk found out