[000:00:00;00] and there will be a limit where they are ready to be more, i think, to influence the position of russia with the aim of ending this aggression, thank you for the conversation. this was oleksandr busienko, the director of the center for military and legal research, friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel and also on our social media networks for those who are currently watching on youtube and facebook , please like this video and subscribe to our pages. well , friends, you can become sponsors of the youtube channel of the espresso tv channel, now you will see links to which you can go qr-codes there are detailed information about how you can join the sponsor club of the espresso tv channel , we need any help from you and we are grateful for any

help, we work for you and in addition to the media resources that you see on youtube and on facebook, you can also read our news on the espresso tv website. we work for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. the most effective news from ukraine and the world. frontline chronicle, in a word, everything you need to know and want to know. you can find it on our website. espresso tv, well, we have another guest on the line, the major general of the security service of ukraine in reserve, the former deputy head of the security service of ukraine, viktor yagun, generals good day, good health to you, thank you for joining our conversation, and good health so, mr. general, the statement of the chairman of the munich security conference, christof hussing, was heard today, who said that russia should go through the process

of depotinization. well, he really spoke in the context of the restoration of german-russian relations, but i think that this applies in general the future of russia because we see and observe how the anti-putin coalition is formed and how it expands , but here is the question of what to do with russia after the victory of ukraine over russia or after the victory of the entire civilized world over russia, so far there is no such discussion what do you think why this discussion for the time being postponed, although this process, the process of the same de putinization can begin, well, in the near future , i think that simply no one will be formalized victory , victory will be formalized in several

ways we er ways er the first way - this is what er when we will be able to go to the borders of 1991, and russia will remain with its own , that is, it means that they are with their own first leader , with their policy towards ukraine and with their ambitions, but in a losing situation, this is a completely different situation when no one will remove the sanctions and the pressure on russia will continue because the question is not that we won, we liberated our territory and cleared it of the occupiers, and the problem is precisely in politics to russia or to its neighbors, because i understand that, for example, there will be no ukrainians the issue of transnistria, abkhazia and

, in general, the southern esthete in georgia, other territories captured by russia, has been resolved. and for some reason we forget about the existence of territories still captured by soviet russia . this part of finland was smoked. is this part of estonia. that is, this is such a rather interesting question, and that is why it is one moment, another moment when russia will start, well, the regime is idle because of the fact that it is not achieving its goal in ukraine, it was not able to explain to its society what it was doing there in general and why those were needed victims and under this pressure there may be a change of power and what kind of power it will be , how to communicate with it and how to treat this population, this is a different situation and a third situation if the decentralization processes in russia go at

such a frantic pace as once in 91 in the 20th year in russia, in the soviet union , new states will appear that will require completely different perceptions in the world, and some of them. their side although i believe that all of russia in this context, even in the future, must apologize to the world, primarily to ukraine, for the crimes that are currently being committed here, and the main question, mr. general , is who should sign the act of surrender of the russian federation, because it is clear that it will obviously not be putin, but someone of those people who will be trusted or at least who will inspire confidence in the institution, but now russian propagandists are again speaking very

carefully and aggressively about negotiations with america , in particular, solovyov discussed the relative the military and technical weakness of the west, let's see what would be very desirable to negotiate with the americans, and i hope that one day it will arise, not from the nuclear peppu, this is america, with whom we can negotiate . the readiness of cats and this is our opportunity, we need to use the relative military-technical weakness of the west, which has already been involved in this conflict, but it is absolutely obvious, mr. general, that the situation in which we are now among the 54 countries of the anti-putin coalition , there is no other way to defeat or at least help ukraine to defeat putin, and it is clear that there is a big problem with

the citizens of this country who, according to sociology, although there are authoritarian perhaps sociology does not work, but still, where the majority of citizens support putin and his aggressive policy, what should we do in this situation , considering the fact that we still have a fairly large border with the russian federation, and even after our victory, we will have to after all, in what way to live next to this aggressive and stupid neighbor, the biggest problem for us is where where is the militarization of the zone 150 km from our border, that is, who will be really responsible for the withdrawal of military units from military bases , the disbandment of new armies and divisions that were formed starting since the 14th year, our borders have also been signing treaties, and not

so much signing, but monitoring their implementation by the world community, at the expense of the fact that we simply really do not trust russia and its leadership, i would not trust the future leadership either, because it is necessary to understand what is wrong with russia in the state in which it is now . that is, it simply cannot change for the imperialists, this is a mental problem, and i emphasize once again that change in russia can be only exclusively in its decentralization and destroyed as such a power that could threaten its neighbors in the future, that is, we actually have a huge problem and how to solve it. so far, i have not seen the same. we all roughly imagine that we have to go to

those borders, and then what er, i repeatedly i will show you an example. we went to the borders of chernihiv, sumy, kharkiv regions, but this did us no good, because they were literally 10-20 km away from the long-range artillery, they are pounding our villages and towns that are located in the immediate vicinity of the border, that is, still once again, i emphasize the depoliticization of the zone around ukraine, and this applies not only to russia , but also to belarus, which is also participating in this hysteria . as for the international community, i understand that they are more concerned about nuclear weapons and who will control them. i understand that the control of these weapons is, after all, foreseen

by some conditional central government that should be in moscow and, if necessary , take control of those nuclear forces which they have in the north, in the far east and in the center of russia , against the background of russia's threats to the west and ukraine , we see further threats as one of the leaders of the terrorist organization of the private military company wagner e prigozhin in in his video, he attacks the russian leadership again and says that if it were not for the bureaucrats , he would have taken bakhmut before the new year.

if it were not a monster of our military bureaucracy, let's say yes and not sticks in the wheels that are spinning every day . state, can these parallel structures that exist in russia become one of the factors that will not lead to a civil war there or to actions of disobedience or taking control of power by other people than are currently at the helm, or will these armies , as they were, remain tame for putin and they will never get out of the control of the president of the russian federation, now the russian federation wanted them to be tame and under his command and for

use in his own interests, including and elsewhere in the world. there is any army that feeds from the hands of one or another oligarch, first of all, it obeys the one who feeds it, and such armies in russia are created much faster than they pass , we can imagine, we know about uh, in wagner's army, we know partially about the army that is organized how is this the kadirov people? and we began to hear about the existence of a new private army that is allegedly controlled by the so-called pobeda army, but we have not heard anything about those private armies that are now actively being created in the regions of the russian federation

of the so-called territorial formations of the territorial defense, this is the second time it has become known about the creation of e-e under the guise of security structures of e-e private armies of large corporations. e-e structures for the protection of certain objects by large corporations and , in particular, by those who call themselves oligarchs in russia. that is, according to approximate calculations, there can already be up to ten different ones. and this is quite such an indicative fact that they cannot be managed from one center and they can really at some

point take part, if not in the distribution, then in the protection of these or other interests such decentralized processes in russia, the more problems they have with the control of these or other structures, however, rather this their so beautiful or effective and supposedly monolithic hierarchy can be sprinkled, mr. generals , one more person who can more faithfully the person at the head of the country is a self-proclaimed president who can directly join the russian-ukrainian war although he has been involved since february 24, 2022, this is oleksandr lukashenko, tomorrow he is meeting with putin, but the day before what lukashenko said , we will fight with ukraine only in case of aggression on belarusian territory in belarus

, he is not going to announce mobilization , belarusians can to live absolutely peacefully. well , he said about this regional grouping of troops that the russian military is not in belarus to attack ukraine. we remember that there were quite a few various statements by belarusian leaders, in particular the minister of defense, who on february 14 , 2022, convinced various people that russian troops would not leave the territory of belarus tomorrow, i understand that putin will once again speak or convince lukashenko obviously wants to take part directly with the armed forces of the republic of belarus in a new attack on ukraine. two days ago, lukashenko announced that the members of the odkb would not be able to sit out

, saying that everyone would have to join the russian ukrainian in one way or another. war what do you think, will putin still have enough arguments for lukashenka or will belarus be involved in the war without the knowledge and principled consent of lukashenka himself ? will he be replaced by a more compliant figure? why didn't belarus enter the war? well , there are many factors, but one of those factors is a mental one. they are very afraid of a social explosion in belarus in the event of significant losses

of their army. belarus is not russia and the population of belarus will perceive losses in wars that are incomprehensible to them, for them outside of belarus, not on the territory of belarus, very , very negatively, protest potential. it has always been and will be in that population, despite the fact that it is a little different from there, i don’t know in ukraine unequivocally, but it still exists , and russia must either really provoke some er provocation, create some kind of er, they say, on the border, disguise some subversive group as a ukrainian er, in ukrainian uniform and arrange some partisan games there, or to really change lukashenka, it is the same thing, it is closed, but what he is provoking representatives of the udkb is, and in this way, i think that this is his preemptive game, when he will communicate with

putin, he says listen we have the udkb we have many more countries than one belarus. why don't they even critically help, and on the contrary sometimes sympathize with greater ukraine than russia, that's why i think that this is the transfer of the ball from one field to another. er, to belarus in the near future personally, its troops will definitely not take part in hostilities on the territory of ukraine. i know, mr. general, that you are in control of the situation in the belarusian army, what belarusians who serve in the armed forces of the republic of belarus say about the war in ukraine. well, we must immediately share what is there

there are several such layers. yes, there are special forces . this is a part of the personnel that is actually involved, including for pressure on the opposition. they took an active part in 2020 year of fighting e-e protest actions and they they are completely under the control of the lukashenko regime, they carry out any tasks that he can set , and they actually receive much more material incentives than other military personnel, but fortunately there are not so many of them, up to one and a half thousand the largest part is, after all, the security forces, which, in the word of the vast majority , are oriented towards lukashenko, the army itself

, the main mass, it really does not want to fight , especially this applies to the older generation of officers, who, despite there, some the past the soviets have had past contacts with the russian army, they understand how it all can end and accordingly all sentiments are transferred to contract workers and junior officers, although some of the junior officers who were educated in russia and who are completely in their mental field, they uh-uh know at this level of patriotism not understanding what is actually happening in ukraine and believing the propaganda but here we are

. we are watching, but they have clearly decided for themselves that they were not going to and will not take part in these battles why because it is either people who were involved in the previous protests these are either strict workers or contract workers already after 2020 who, by the way, some of them hid in the army uh, from possible persecution of the service cylinder, and uh, they occupy a certain niche in this structure, that is, if you take it that way, up to 15% of the army of belarusians of belarus is ready to fight, and here a larger part, well, exactly uh, if and will go forward, it is not clear in which direction or just fight or surrender well, what about a combat-capable particle that can turn the tide of the war and help russia, this army does not

represent itself. thank you , mr. generals, for the conversation . yagun, friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel for those who are now watching us live on social networks, in particular on facebook and youtube, please like this video , subscribe to our resources on social networks, you can also become a sponsor of our of the youtube channel now you will see the qr-codes by which you can go to join our sponsors' club, all the details are on these links, we will be grateful to you for any help to our youtube channel, i put a full stop in today's program, i wish everyone good health take care of yourself and your loved

ones, we'll see you on monday, goodbye, we have great news about one of the girls who was wanted by us for more than six months, she is 16-year-old alina checheliuk from the city of mariupol. fortunately, alina managed to find and the most important thing is that she is already safe in the circle of her family together with her parents. alina's story is one of the many stories of ukrainian children who, unfortunately, got lost because of the war . on may 9, the girl suddenly stopped contacting her, it was unknown what happened to her, after receiving a message about alina's disappearance, we immediately started searching for her and spread information about her on all available media resources for quite a long time about alina's fate. there was no news. nevertheless, after a while we received a very encouraging message. a man approached us and said that he was a friend

of the checheluk family, and in fact alina herself was able to evacuate from mariupol and is already abroad with her father and mother. good day, dear checheluk now with switzerland's parents, the information from her parents is clear, we were incredibly happy with this news , moreover , mother alina contacted us almost immediately, who confirmed that everything is fine with her daughter and that they are already there together good afternoon, alina is with us. we are very grateful, we are happy that alina chechelyuk was found, and by the way, i thank you for the fact that you were interested in joining the search and, in particular , sharing videos and announcements about the search for alina on your pages in social networks , at the same time, we are still missing there are many children left in ukraine, and for obvious reasons, many of these children are from mariupol

, one of them is an 11-year-old mushroom cherepanov , who has been looking for his mother for almost a year now. but the jeans are clean, classy. gde luchše horosho połuchalos očen horoshy boy, i am not the first to thank ms. victoria told the details of her son's disappearance. so, hleb lived with his mother and grandmother in mariupol, and they stayed in the city when very fierce fighting was going on there due to shelling. hleb's mother and grandmother they left their apartment and

hid in the house of their relatives. one day, gleba's mother went out on business. and when she returned, she saw that her son was in the house. that mother was hit by a projectile, a man is coming , say the word, we run, we still love and again after all, the white girl is running with duct tape, or one of them. since then, nothing is known about the fate of the boy. it is worth noting that there was a version about the death of hleb when a shell hit the house. due to a concussion, he partially lost his memory and because of this he cannot report anything about himself, and therefore i am asking you, especially the residents of mariupol who can see this

program on the internet, look carefully at the boy's face, gleba's mother really hopes your help and concern can be useful, please contact the police or

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life frankly and impartially conclusions make your own, there is a war going on and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds russia is throwing millions of petrodollars to turn ukrainians into little russians ukraine will become russia analysis and analysis of information about ukraine by russian propagandists concrete facts and methods by which hostile propaganda turns people into slanderous zombies countering him to the information attacks of the russians in the project of the chronicle of the information war with olga len tuesday, thursday at 11:40 a.m. and friday at 1:00 p.m. on the espresso tv channel