[000:00:00;00] what is it? no, it's a friend. well, alexander tells me. i know you know it, so it's john lennon's second wife. he, she was his second wife. no, it's john lennon's second. yes . and he was her third husband. many musicians, the beatles broke up, although in her interviews she said that i am responsible all my life for the crime in quotation marks that they did not actually commit , that is, the beatles did not break up because of her, she played music, she was an artist, she was an ethnic japanese woman, they were born together son of john le-sean lennon it was this is what she looks like and today she is 90 years old, congratulations, she outlived john lennon himself well , for 43 years, john was beaten on december 8 , 1980 today, almost 23 years have passed, they have

a son together, the first son from uh, from my first wife and sean lennon was born in the same year as me. he was in the 75th year, this is also a landmark , we congratulate his column, long life , a landmark figure in world music, world culture, it was the art of all troubles, they are looking for a woman, this is straight such a chip, but one more information from the world of sports no no, i will tell you about the berlin film festival because the premiere of the film era was held there, probably and arena kaufman just about the war in ukraine superpower it is closer to us, it is more important because it also tells about our war to the world, it tells about the war for independence, the russian invasion, which chopin met in kyiv and saw with his own eyes, the first day of the start of a full-scale war, which directly affects ukraine, from sunny london, from

great britain, or from london, well, from great britain, he scored his first goal for arsenal oleksandr zinchenko surrenders the first goal arsenal has stopped until 2:272 minutes ukrainian defender midfielder member of the national team captain of the national team of ukraine has passed from time to time already telling me about the pass with arsenal there are moments when the body quickly loses fluid which can lead to dehydration but of course there is not enough water jereo reo water for special medical purposes i save myself together i save children reo and i save myself reo water for special medical purposes war raised its head again in europe reminding about

the darkest hour of our history franz 24 constantly covers events in ukraine, our team on the ground and in the studio will inform you about the dynamics of events and this most relevant from franz 24 in ukrainian on espresso every week saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaliy portnikov host of espresso and invitation experts based on facts give your assessment and forecast of the development of events, you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, see the saturday political club that saturdays are not espresso, we continue 16:02 on the clock and even 0:3 we will continue a little later let's continue, we'll start the broadcast from the frankiv security forum, but in the meantime, we'll talk with our next guests

, let's talk about what, er , today er, 9 years ago the executive director of the center for civil liberties joins the great victims of oleksandr romantsov . we are also looking for yehor sobolev, a serviceman of the armed forces of ukraine, a member of the maidan, a people's deputy of the 8th convocation, yehor . we congratulate you. and what function do you perform in the armed forces of ukraine? tell me everything, of course, please. the sergeant flies on the wing of a uav. well, you are almost like viktor tarantush, who teaches the young guards of these pilots. you don't know viktor travna. oh, i'm asking him

before the war. the hook is called the school specifically for the training of uav operators. well, okay, the very part, tell me, tell me like this . please tell me what is happening now in the zaporizhzhia direction and what dangers, what risks, well, for me, zaporizhzhia is mine the motherland of that well, of course, my heart bleeds when i know that its berdian melitopol tokmak is all under occupation and that the russians seem to be accumulating some forces there trying to capture er well, i think this will never happen, but without having to advance to zaporozhye yes, i am asking you first of all. they are digging in and preparing for a very

frantic defense. most of the situation our forces with great losses for the enemy repel those attacks mr. igor let's talk about what happened 9 years ago, these were the fiercest days in the revolution of dignity, they are called the culmination, do you remember this day 9 years ago, february 18, i apologize on the 14th year, please yes, the guarantee, like thousands of other people, he went to the verkhovna rada on the way, we went to the office of the party of regions on lipska street , he was already on fire at that moment, and they brought out a person who asked him not to beat him, and

no one beat er they went in the direction command of the self-defense at that time. then there were events that are known to everyone, these are the attacks in the mariinsky park in the fortress lane and such a large counterattack by the then security forces with an attempt to capture the entire maidan. if i am not mistaken, the night was probably the most alarming during the time on the maidan, our borders were literally reduced to a few kilometers. the house of trade unions was already in the hands of the enemy. if i am not mistaken , the alpha group of the then security service of ukraine went there and occupied a hill near the mariinsky i apologize to the october palace, and it seemed that this operation, a big clean-up, which yanukovych's government started at that time, would

lead to the defeat of the revolution, but the enemy's forces were not enough, so how much later, you can already understand, was a big reason that the maidan stood this most terrible, most disturbing day . what happened was that individual rebels began to shoot back. i think that this is the most important lesson in three days of our time, and i discussed it with my beautiful daughter the day before yesterday, about the fact that good should be with fists, about what ideals and principles are. the desire to live well and fairly, all this from time to time peace-protection er-e serious protection with sweat and blood, this is what the whole country will now do er-e, then i think she

has learned this lesson well, mr. igor well, most of all for you personally, the most terrible moment of that spring was not even spring, well, the end of february, the spring of the ukrainian euroregulation, which was the 18th, or was it the 20th, when there was this counterattack by the members of the maidan , and when they started, the police and special forces officers who it was a day. what was the moment? tell me honestly, i don't want to look like a braggart, but i don't remember being on the maidan even once . it was scary, sometimes it was unpleasant. a feeling of strength, a feeling that you are surrounded by tens of hundreds of thousands of uh, very cool, brave, uh, wonderful neighbors around the country, and it has never been scary, uh, and who is the night of the 20th

, uh, that you mentioned, uh, i was surrounded by friends, uh, with whom i still my friend, one of them is also fighting, now he is defending ukraine from the north in the direction of replacement, we did not pass the belarusian border in relation to the arch, and again it was so easy , the other guys are busy volunteering, i am trying to strengthen our defense from the south, so this friendship then showed its purpose, it inspired us friendship in a big sense, not only the company of a few men there. such a great true civil friendship of millions of ukrainians who then felt that we are the government and we are the state we are responsible for it going in the right direction and this is a feeling of strength that

still does not leave us and i think already will never leave oleksandr romantsov joins our conversation with the executive director of the center for civil liberties mr. oleksandr, we welcome you good afternoon good afternoon, you can hear us, oleksandr, sir, then the question for you is how do you now connect the events that took place nine years ago that's why and with what we have now, then russia took advantage of such a weakness and began the aggression of the military annexation of crimea further east . as you can see, now these events are their codependency.

we learned to unite, we learned to defend ourselves, we learned not to be afraid, and we learned to win, probably not the most important thing that happened on the maidan during the revolution of dignity, how before that, during the orange revolution, it is that the ukrainians won, you can also remember the revolution on the granite and other very important joint social affairs that we in the country have either seen or done together and i think that this is the feeling that and you have to fight , the struggle will lead you to victory and as in our new army anthem, crying has not given anyone else freedom, this is the feeling hmm it then hmm, it germinated very strongly, maybe with small seeds . i often think about it, teenagers, how many years ago did you say ? it was nine, nine, that is, teenagers who

were nine years old then, and they are now in the armed forces. it could already be my children, my oldest child, my daughter is 20, and people like aliska are fighting and dying around me, but they don’t give up, and i think that they were really still kids at the time, but they watched these events very carefully. how and everyone has survived the victory from society, and that's probably it a great historical mission of the maidan that we not only won the expulsion of the president at that moment, we won a chance for changes that later happened, including the delay of the association agreement with the european union, because of which , actually, the student euromaidan began, but the most important thing is that we learned that together we can solve any what

a problem and even if the bullets are whistling e this does not mean that we cannot defeat oleksandr romantsov with us i hope we will hear now executive director of the center for civil liberties p oleksandr you are with us you can hear us i i really hope that oleksandr laughs so much too. well, for me, you know. so, the events of the maidan of the euro 14-13 years ago and the events of the 22-23-year war are like episodes of the same story, you know, it's like in a computer game . at first, you win a little evil and then in the final you defeat the main main demon and then you come out of the game as a winner, well, it is possible, not comparable, of course. here are the lives of people and the death of thousands of tens of thousands of people. but nevertheless, at that time, we had the feeling that the main battle was still ahead. yes we they won the battle, but they did not win this whole war and the main enemy is not yanukovych at all, when

he is the enemy, he is sitting there, and yanukovych is only like a puppet being controlled by a string. we already know that what brought us closer to this victory was the opportunity to be independent, but at that time they were far from feeling that they had finally won, so we are just the generation that saw what happened in 1991 and the first revolution on granits saw the orange revolution when ukrainians got the right and chose to choose it. yes, there are votes that really became part of their power, and in 2013 we chose for ourselves the right to determine our future, so the maidan is what now gives us the opportunity to generally

believe in ourselves that we we can gather together the neighbors of people from other parts of our country in their i don't know there boys girls with whom husbands wives grandmothers grandfathers studied and organize a confrontation of such a community such a simple mass of the russian federation staged on our land , so all these were degrees in fact of our ability to resist eh if to responsibility eh after all, the prosecutor general's office announced suspicions regarding involvement in the murder on the maidan, 66 people received suspicions, 46 of whom are wanted, our society will still manage to bring to of responsibility, i.e. to somehow complete this process and close this gestalt, oleksandr, there is another very terrible figure: 29 relatives of those killed on the maidan have already left during the period while you and i

were investigating these cases. that is, i have keep in mind that people did not wait and unfortunately, many of them will not wait and next year will be the last year so that the statute of limitations for their own or crimes does not expire. that is, 10 years, so my task with my mother is such a huge exam for our judicial system, will they do it finally will they be part of this democratic ukraine capable of resisting russian aggression? will it unfortunately be rudimentary, you know, from the system that will have to be completely demolished, that is, the maidan is like that, the affairs of the maidan are such a litmus test a bill that shows how ready we are, because the next stage is war crimes, and there are 32,000 war crimes documented in our country alone, the prosecutor's office says about 66,000, that is , oleksandr for the judicial system that we

still have to build . in this system there are honest judges , even relatives tell about them those who managed to resist the manipulations of the lawyers of these accused who were able to organize cases in this way and hearings in such a way that they move, so such judges why is it the task of both journalists and the public to observe every such hearing so that when there are observers, judges cannot just do nothing there, they are forced to work according to the rules, forced to move cases, so it depends on our attention whether we will actually make it in time i have a question for you about these crimes , the statute of limitations for which just pops up. oleksiy of donskoi, donskoy, do you remember this guy? i thought he had long since retired. he turns out to be working in the prosecutor general's office and is the head

of the department of the so-called maidan office. of the prosecutor general he said that the statute of limitations in cases pending in court and related to serious crimes committed by the participants of the euromaidan protest expires in a year. that is, 10 years, that is, 60 cases. together with the rights, 134. that is, almost half of the cases are annulled after a year, all are free , and no one has been convicted. they can go for a walk and he appealed through ukrainska pravda he caught a pedagogue commenting on the legislator said that the deputies should make changes to the criminal procedure code and the criminal code or increase the term ago or in general so that there is no time limit for such crimes here, where is the truth, who should change the legislation ? i think both steps are necessary in order to save

the cases. i think a special decision of the parliament is necessary to restore justice in these cases, so that the law prevails in these cases, and the criminals are punished and the memory of this is was preserved for all subsequent law enforcement officers and for all subsequent citizens, on the other hand, it is so true that all the prosecutors general who have been since those times are responsible for the fact that these cases are not investigated by those who appointed these prosecutors general and i agreed with their appointment, and apparently the lack of justice, er, the lack of the same justice, this is one of the mega problems that we as a society have not yet solved, and judges and prosecutors are

appointed by politicians in any country, er, there are countries where they are trying to elect these people, but the result was telling. sometimes it is also not effective, that is, in the main, judges and prosecutors are the result of the work of society, society either directly elects them or elects politicians who appoint their turn of people who have to establish the law, protect it , affirm it and she doesn’t succeed, and i think that this is a big question for every person , what was done wrong , it depends on me to make it so, and i always said that uh, the biggest agent of uh, russia in ukraine uh it's corruption or because of corruption, all those connections, all those inefficient affairs, all these disintegrations, they protect themselves and receive

, they simply get rich at the same time. efficient, independent, truly principled, prosecutors and judges, this is a task that i know, thank you, as oleksandr wanted, unfortunately, they do not have time to ask why we do not have a memorial to those who died on the maidan in nine years, and who is it for the question and when it will be completed but this is already a story, a separate discussion, we will talk about it in our next broadcasts yehor sobolev oleksandr romantsova thank you for participating, and now the expected broadcast from germany , we are watching this fight and help from countries around the world will stop but will it be peace of course that no, because the part of ukraine that is now nomadically

under the control of russia will remain under the control of russia, and those who say simply now immediately stop empty actions and peace will immediately come. this means that we will give these people who are ukrainians, we will and we will give them to russia, but we are talking about issues of international order and international law, and president macron spoke yesterday. my neighbor's forces and i also want to say because i think that in germany people are also talking about this, if we had provided weapons at the beginning maybe there would not have been such aggressive hostilities and i

think that we should put differently question if we had not decided on february 27 in the german parliament or on february 24 the whole world had decided to support ukraine, there would not be 13 million refugees from ukraine , in particular 1 million refugees are in germany, in germany we know how large the population of ukraine is and therefore if if we did not provide support to the ukrainians from february 27 , we would see much more buch - mariupol people throughout the country, so if they ask such questions as what are the results of international aid sanctions, i want to answer that the results are that unfortunately, we cannot

give peace to ukraine already because russia still wants and continues to bomb ukraine, but we sheltered refugees, we protect them every day, i want to ask, when we talk about peace, we are talking about russia returning to the u.s. and withdrawing its troops from the territory that was free before the start of a large-scale invasion, because we understand that ukrainians really want and worry about the crimean issue, first of all i want to say how great an honor it is to be here in munich again and it is very

nice to be in such a company of my friends and the office of partners, colleagues, we can really see the actions that germany is taking, how much aid germany has already provided to ukraine, what steps have been taken, and indeed, this is a very big job, and i want to give it to the minister of foreign affairs, mrs. verbok, and i really want to thank the minister of ukraine, because the whole world is inspired by the struggle of the ukrainian people . thank you for your personal courage, for the extraordinary manner in which mr. kuleba conducts his work.

colleague, our friend ukraine, ukrainians should decide what and when to do, first of all, we should not lose sight of and not shift the focus from the fact that there is an aggressor. hostilities, that would be the end of the war, but if ukraine decided to stop fighting , that would be the

end of ukraine. the question of peace is now at stake, the strategic peace of the future, and this peace concerns every country in the whole world , we are now fighting against the supremacy of power and if we have an aggressor, that is, we will open pandora's box and such evil will spread further, we want long-term peace. and this means that we must do everything so that russia does not have to repeat such an aggressive scenario again next year or in two or three years , respectively. we must also help strengthen the defense potential in order to have be able to fight back. if this can happen, we also have to look into the post-war future

where there is security for ukraine and for this europe . i still need to go to her, er, i already. this is the third time they ask this question. i don’t want to bother someone who has already heard my previous answer, but in fact, for us puppies, we understand that there is a short scenario for winning victory, which is the complete restoration of territorial the integrity of ukraine, and there is also a long-term victory that includes compensation for the damages caused and the prosecution of all criminals. and the most important thing is the complete

change of russia. i have no doubts that we will become a member of the eu, nato - it will happen, but in the end only long-term peace in the euro-atlantic space will be possible possible if russia no longer poses a threat and for this to be achieved we need russia to change , we understand how long the road to such a goal is, but if every day we see this the goal will be in front of our eyes. as long as security in the euro-atlantic region has lasted, and in which ukraine will be a full-fledged member , it will inevitably be useful to prevent russia from posing any threat, we understand