[000:00:00;00] what was there, er, for the next several weeks, we were constantly attacked, letters were sent to us with proposals to go over to the side of the russians , er, well, all the other editorial offices had a lot of such things, er, but you understand that, well , they had no chance, so there is simply incredible stability and i want to hope that despite everything, even these occupations , people will stand up and drive out the enemy and kherson will return to its normal , calm, peaceful life. andriyanitskyi and will tell us about the news of the economy andriy i congratulate you congratulations thank you colleagues today we will talk a lot about

behavioral economics andriy yanitskyi with economic news on the espresso tv channel as usual on weekdays at eight in the morning and today we have an unusual broadcast because the guest is with us today in studio and it is very nice that our guest is not virtual but real, you can see how he looks in three quarters, yes, not only in the profile ivan pas , so with us today vadim vakhito is the director of the institute of behavioral economics at the american university kyiv , mr. vadym volodymyr

, good morning volodymyr vykhitov, volodymyr volodymyr, what kind of behavioral research institute is this , what kind of research are you doing on people? how people make decisions and we try to understand how people make decisions when information is limited when there is not enough data to make decisions and we also try to understand why some people are advancing, well, let’s say, i wouldn’t say that here it is completely irrational, let’s say in our own interest, that is, now during the war, why do some people live in the shelling zone , or why, despite the fact that it would be socially necessary for us to increase the number of donations to the army, why is the number of donations falling on the contrary or wanted people may not have money. there are rational explanations for this. it seems to me that there is no need to conduct any additional research. well, the war has been going on for a year. it is clear that people have become morally exhausted. do you have any others, even those people who have money. that is, we understand that there are people

who lost their jobs, lost their property, lost everything, and there are no questions for them, but there are people who have money , there is an opportunity, and it doesn’t matter. last year, i gave this something, but i don't know why i didn't give it this year, if you bought a new car instead for yourself and not for the army, yes, and what is it related to? do you have answers to this question ? and in principle, very often it is connected with the fact that how people perceive information in general as people perceive the world, but very often people think that they have enough here. and what is unique is that they know everything, that they understand everything, and they do not see and do not feel that sometimes the information that reaches them is not perceived in the same way as for an outside observer otherwise, all people dose the same information in a different way in their heads, and it's so interesting. that is, you tell them, for example

, now it is necessary to leave for safety, and some people think well , what is the danger? or something else and if they think, i don't even know what this rocket is, but i want to leave right now, maybe we 're just scared . and here they are, they don't explain themselves, but logically, there is no direct logical explanation, because well, we thought the explanation might be that people don't know where to go or people don't have money to go live somewhere or they are just disoriented they need help so that someone just tells them what to do or they hold on to their home very strongly but we see that they lost in the research, we see in the data that it has a violent effect, i.e. the level of money, the level of wealth that people have, it does not greatly affect the decision to go, time, economic incentives will not help to encourage such people to leave, that is, if

you offer them 1,000 uah or 2,000 uah in a new place, then you will move, you will have, for example , help from the state it's not theirs, it's interesting, where can it be, not everyone talks about the fact that it helps someone , it doesn't, that is, it can , it can be some additional factor, but i have a cat here that doesn't want to go with me, i don't want to go. normally for the reason, that is, it was her, or my parents are in this city, and i don’t want to go , that’s also normal, the reason is, either, i have this house in which i lived for 30-40 years, i don’t want to leave it, you did research somewhere in pre-friend regions, we conducted research on all the regions in which the war took place. was it in the summer or was the research conducted back in july? and in all of them, where was the war, where was the occupation after that, that is, this is the east, this is the south, and this is a little north, the very tammer

region, and you asked people who did not leave about their motives of those who left, who left somewhere more than a third of our sample, they left, we looked , they left, i will return everything. how did you return? many left in the first week, and we see that they left. many of them left, of course, in memory, without understanding what was happening. but of all those who left , those who left for the first time in a week returned the most, that is , they understood, overestimated and decided that well , the teams have a big problem. there are people with children, families, there are people who live and have returned to kherson. although it is under fire every day, and especially these parts of kherson , for example, there is a microdistrict, an island, which is located opposite the russian positions, and it seems to me that it was professional to leave their homes, or at least to come to another part cities, at least in the neighboring region, it is not

necessary to go somewhere far hmm can we somehow encourage you said that for some people economic incentives can work, what to do with those for whom the solution is the cause of very often people are afraid to leave somewhere because they do not understand where they will live, what they will live for, that is, it is not necessary to just talk about money, but they will say comprehensively that we will be able to help you settle somewhere , because we will settle you, we will be able to help you leave, or we will take you out we will indicate that the main factor that is absolutely always significant, because the decision to leave or not was the availability of transport, that is, if a person has a car or if a person is near the station, then the person left much more often, we can to be comprehensive, there must be a comprehensive solution, transport, housing and money, some kind of lift so that people can leave, it still helped us to convince everyone, but we conducted

a large-scale experiment and we simply told one part of the people that they needed to leave. how many people do you think will be able to leave ? and other people are not the same message when they asked that in order to leave you need to call somewhere or go somewhere or wait for buses less, i called a message with a plan and we found that there is this plan that we told people formally there was more of a perception that most of the people would leave, or if there was a person, what did she say that they had some kind of previous light. there were few, but there were some , that is, the presence of a clear algorithm is the most important. it is no less important than the presence of the message itself. about the danger, and that is why i would like to contact the local authorities that are involved in evacuation, that e in order to increase the number of people who will go , whom to convince, it is desirable to give them

clearer instructions and constantly repeat it because when people are under stress, they sometimes cannot do some elementary things, that is, they do not know , for example, i should choose such a bag, and they can choose between these two bags for an hour, because the brain somehow stops working the way it works, well, i have a personal example of when it started invasion. my wife and i will talk in the morning. well, at night, when we were still under fire, we talked about whether we were going to leave or not. and we decided that it is safer at home in kyiv. let it be so. in the evening , my wife called me and said where are you still? i came home, are we going to go or not ? well, that’s it. well, it actually took 12 hours to make a decision, although in principle, the options were still on the table in the morning. of course, your institute conducts such research, interviews people and then advises the authorities on what to do. what else?

the institute is engaged in. i understand that you also teach people some economic sciences. what kind of study is it? are the courses short? are these the programs we have as an institute ? behavioral economics course, we called it the behavioral economics course during the war, but in principle it cannot be said that there is a very big difference between the decisions made during the war or not during the war, we may repeat it again in the summer, maybe in the autumn, we will see over time and so, in general, the university has a bachelor ’s program, ministerial programs, and business, data science, and global management, i.e. we have already recruited quite a few people who have managed to recruit and are still recruiting, and therefore we invite you to apply to our university

to the ukrainian leadership with the name it turns out that on the one hand it is american, on the other hand it is located in kyiv, and it is a relatively new, new educational institution, which , by the way, quite irrationally, you can say , was opened practically during the war the day before , i am sure that rationally, because education is what will draw us out after lina always and we offer the education of the world divisions of the day we offer the education that is allocated with the help of programs in america at the american university of arizona now we have in youth and we believe that after the end of the war, which one way or another will end in any case, there will be a period of wartime recovery or even construction. something new, and this is at a time when we need specialists who can manage , who understand how the built world is built , young people who need some kind of work here in any - in any case and that's why we think that this is a rational enough decision, i.e. a rational decision to run - it's when

bombs fall on your head and when it's relatively quiet when we've already gotten used to the siren song , i've gotten used to learning by the way, it's so so big a difference, that is, when it all started, it was so physically scary, it was physically felt, and now it’s like this . well, it’s anxiety again, something is flying again, it’s a little dangerous because people started to ignore it , but on the other hand, the psyche of a person adapts , well, in fact, to everything and that’s why people are really ghosted now. i have already started to build my own, not very long, but plans even during the course of a person. i have not read separate studies about education and war, but i have heard such an idea that during crises, for example , it is the most rational to study from the point of view of, well, exactly economic, because what if you enter the labor market during a crisis to work ? well, they can offer you probably not the best conditions, because the employer

has no money now, the employer is in a difficult situation. and when you go to study, you improve your qualifications and enter the labor market already during growth, their starting positions are better, so i think that this should also be relevant for military times , yes, this is absolutely true, and indeed the economy always moves up and down, and at some point it begins to move up, at least some sectors, that is, well, we cannot say that everywhere. but when it starts to move forward, we understand that the need for people begins to grow, and the better your skills, the better you will find a job, the more emotional you will find a job that will pay more money, you will it is interesting to do this, that is why we are talking about the fact that it is a necessity

. i am talking about the fact that let's postpone it and after the war. we will do something. many things need to be done right now. in practice in real life, i remember the first days of the invasion, when queues immediately formed at gas stations, in stores, er, er, i understand that this is just a manifestation of our psychological reaction to that, to some uncertainty, well, people form some expectations about the obligation necessarily correct. but the expectation was that if there is a war, there will be a problem with the delivery of food and gasoline, so you need to refuel, and it was absolutely rational. i was very impressed that there was still some gasoline and it was already being picked up that i can pay with a card and obviously bombs are flying , i can use paypass at the cash register, it’s just a contactless reform, that is, to calculate, the infrastructure is working, this is very important. the fact that the railway was working and how much they were taking everyone away was a very important step. us and that you could

travel by bus and that, in principle, it was slow but you could move on those roads somehow this is a very big, big asset that the infrastructure worked in the first days because but on it's a pity that we have what is called such a cognitive error, a survivor's error, because many people were not able to leave near kyiv, unfortunately, they simply went on the wrong route or ended up in that place. and by the way, intuitively , many people chose shelter in kyiv region when they thought that it would be safer there than in the capital itself and got into a trap. thus, why did intuition let people down this time ? daniel kahneman, one of the founders of behavioral economics , presents this body. was repeated many times, which you experienced many times and for which you had normal feedback. that is, you could evaluate it as an experience. for the absolute majority of people, it

was the first time in their lives, that is, they did not know what to do. and when they perceived that the village was dangerous what did they think that platyiv would fly and salty would just pass away and they simply did not understand the logic of how it should go, a man in the military they do not understand how it unfolds, how there are certain laws but in order to understand it, you need or to live in this for a long time to be drunk by a military man and a daughter-in-law for military men are not military men , they simply fell into this trap of misunderstanding how should it be and we cannot be blamed because really well, here i am sitting in the village of a godfather , there is a need there, kyiv to bomb here in we will not be there. well, it was logical to think that it is easier to get food in the village. well, by the way , i will say that it is not me. it is possible that not only the people themselves made such a choice, but on the eve of the invasion there were a lot of different trainings. actually, again

, personally, the example of my mother-in-law's wife was at to such a training, where they were told the following things: look, there may be problems with food in the city. therefore, it might be better to settle down somewhere in the village, see, stop, and they were also told that the roads could be very dangerous. well, that turned out to be partially true , but they said that there could be marauders there may be bandits who stop cars, rob cars, about such cases. by the way, i have not heard that someone took advantage of the moment and there blocked the odesa highway with machine guns and robbed those who run into it, and fortunately, that is, our law enforcement system - it was controlled and there was no such thing, it turned out somewhere that the experience of the previous ones cannot be applied in this war. well, because the previous soldiers were there a long time ago and there were no other technical equipment, there were no mobile phones, there was not such a large amount of information that the next one comes directly online there were no working

networks, uh, there was no such fast transport as it is now on balloons, only powerful weapons, that is, there was no such thing as a missile launching itself from the black sea, flying to kyiv in that relatively recently ago that experience could not be used to the full extent, but on the other hand, all the soldiers understood that if the city is surrounded , then it becomes a paska for everyone, because it begins to be simply destroyed in one way or another, and experience massed everything and enough of mariupol it it was shown by the same army. by the way, it actually did such things, but they are very specific . well, not everyone knows about it. they follow how many people heard the promo before i told you about it now. do you really know or who knows what happened there or who knows how many people died there and even now we still cannot say for sure how many people unfortunately died in mariupol who may have thought that

there was an occupation by the russians and donetsk if on the way the occupation here may be something similar, that is, the government is changing the flags are changing, but maybe it will be about the same. i have heard this several times from people who either died in mariupol or someone left mariupol that we did not expect such a great atrocity, we did not expect that the city would simply be destroyed i understand that we were drawn into what hurts, but if we talk about the war from the point of view of the economy , it is not rational, that is, the war destroys the economy as well as that the country that is being attacked as well as the country that is attacking, we see that the sanctions are applied to the russians, so that they stop these atrocities and i don't see any immediate reaction, should

this effect of the sanctions accumulate or are they aimed at the wrong thing to stop and to weaken in what way well, after all, the world continues to use these economic incentives against an aggressive country and do you have gains, well, you need to understand that first of all, russia is big and there are many countries with a huge amount of resources and internal accumulated resources and because of it is simply sanctions, it is very difficult to put it because it is large, it is in a market economy that was sufficiently developed at the time of the beginning of the war , which can block completely trade at the expense of some internal funds oil and gas are good. it is very difficult because russia was and remains an important supplier of these resources to the whole world , and if everything is simply blocked, then half of the world's economy begins to experience big

problems, and that's why the problem here was. financially - financially every day, and on the other hand, let this oil and gas remain on the market for some kind of car, at least, that is, now these programs, what is the sensational program, what is the pension sanction that limits the price of oil, it approximately solves this, but it took time because before that no one here had solved such problems, and plus everyone understands that since russia has a nuclear bomb, there is no need to take very drastic steps, so here, let's do it gradually. that's why it's, well, it's difficult for a small country, there are 140 million people and there is a huge territory, huge paving of everything. thank you, mr. volodymyr. volodymyr vakhitov was with us today in the studio live , as we say, that is, in real time, not directly in the studio, not by skype. fortunately, i love such moments, and volodymyr vakhitov

is the director of the institute of behavioral research at the american university kyiv and andriy yanitskyi, the host of the economic news program on the espresso tv channel, together we will win cheer for dnipro-1 and shakhtar in the eurocups exclusively on megogo, see this week in the program judicial control with tatyana shustrava , the competition for the highest qualifications of the commission of judges as a lawyer for kernes and a defender of drivers are eager for a high position, did i know gennady kernes yes, i knew him and where did the valuable

property of the candidates' children come from, the car is a scholarship see thursday, february 23 at 4:40 p.m. program under judicial control with tatyana shustrova on the espresso tv channel this morning president putin announced a special military operation in many places of ukraine explosions were heard the year of the great war the most difficult year in the modern history of ukraine the most important year in the history of ukraine the year that determined everything in our lives how we lived this year, how things changed, what we lost, and most importantly, who about losses and victories about heroes from the front and heroes of the rear in the marathon of the espresso tv channel, the year of the great war , the best journalists - exclusive reports inclusion and interview on friday, february 24, from seven in the morning to 11 in the evening at

espresso. good morning, dear friends, here we are in avatar . we are back . and we are glad that you are staying with us. not only in the form of rockets, they also attack our youtube broadcast , where the broadcast of our ether is taking place. you reacted the audience the number of likes changed right before my eyes . thank you for doing this. thank you, regardless of all those strikes, they are not strikes, so that they do not try to attack us .

to see you all healthy, we look forward to thank you for your attention to our team for our humble work. we work here for five hours of direct entertainment, and i will tell you this, it is a great pleasure and joy to understand that you are doing something useful for your country and, in principle, for everything he said that ukraine will be in nato yesterday he said and says and you can prepare right now for joining nato and you like in another he meant that let's have even more 155th there caliber of projectiles for zoos in ukraine or more nato standards in the army, then the army already has such nato standards when you look at the ukrainian military and the russian military. it seems that the army is from different centuries in principle, and that is how it is when you look at those new units where all with the m-16 m4 hemkas

well equipped, well, the ukrainian army is already according to nato national standards, the political system, you know , they are according to zanadsky standards , the judicial system, what are they according to nato standards, the economy is not free enough. this is homework that needs to be done today, and this is exactly what the decision that supports ukraine meant while you were talking about the fact that our military is better equipped , they have better ammunition, eh, what i want to say is that our the military is better because uh and thanks to you and me because you and i will support our military who can’t defend the country with weapons can do something in the rear and who can how much actually and we announce

an urgent collection for a thermal imaging sight for defenders for the soldiers of the company named after noman or lebijikhan in the 251st battalion of the 241st brigade, we are collecting money for a thermal imaging sight for the defenders of e-e without those sights , simply no way because the steppe e try to storm e-e at night when they storm they corpses if there is a thermal imaging sight, that is, now without it, every unit simply has to have not just a thermal imaging sight, but the best quality, because watching for hours all night, that sight simply burns out the eyes , it must be of very high quality. to observe and identify objects at night and in the afternoon , you can now see on your screens the details by which you can transfer funds. who has how much

? use this device in any weather conditions, the working time is approximately 10 hours thanks to two types of power supply, the built-in battery and a battery that can be replaced without turning off the scope, now attention, how much do we need to collect? and we need to collect uah 280,000 for it. how much did we take? we took the funds for yesterday. listen, i don't remember, and 50,000 was never for yesterday, it was fantastic, well, scary . thank you. yes, by the end of the day, we will definitely collect it, it turns out that in an hour we have already collected it well, then you said that in an hour everything was already closed damn it, only then they said that it was already closed and this is fantastic, well, that is, really, very much thank you we are probably at the end of the war, you know, we will just sum up how much we collected money with you and it will turn out that in principle you and i could already establish some kind of arab emirates as such a separate separate family because well, we

really have everything for this er. so er. i will repeat the details once again because i know that not all people they know how to use privatbank qr-codes if you have a privatbank card 51-68 74 56 14:21 86 15 there is also a monobank 5375 41 15 05.90 88 68 and please write down your details , transfer money as much as you can and i think that these 280,000 that we need for a thermal sight for our defenders we will close very quickly well and then we will announce something new or all the time something is needed in the war and all the time something is needed for our defenders defenders yes also thank you for responding to

our appeals has already been added also i suspect that as well as money on the card, as well as adding likes to our youtube broadcast. thank you for watching, thank you for responding to our calls, it is very nice, and we are now expecting inclusion from the donbass from the front from under the bahmut, something the editor suggests that it is difficult to communicate there, but it is not surprising that it is difficult to communicate there, of course, i can look at who is so russian. that sometimes the spokesman of the ministry of defense draws him with such a klavovsky nose with such a propeller the head is like that, sometimes there is, sometimes there is not, but there is they have such a funny nose, such a nose, such a slouch like that, well, they produce such uh-funny, but i also forget his last name, well , they have such a one, they have a surovikina, or something similar, but he is a linguist. well, and that and