[000:00:00;00] and the balanced position of ukraine and moldova will also not pass . in your opinion, this period of our history will pass there. in your opinion, could it be profitable for russia at some point to try to try to reach some kind of peace agreement with ukraine, but with some kind of conditional territorial arrangements. will these proposals be paid in the end, and they are always the last ones? i also heard that the russian ambassador to great britain said that we are ready to sign any agreements with ukraine even today, we just need a guarantee that that ukraine will not attack our territory from its side, and that it is in russian, there are some strategies there

. keep in mind that the only question is that according to putin's concept, russian territory does not end anywhere, and russia has no borders, er, the borders of russia there are russian interests and this system is a question of course, they have driven themselves into a stalemate, included my constitution as the territory of the russian federation and the subject of conversation cannot be until this rule of the constitution is undermined putin himself well, everything does not depend on us, and the beginning of the negotiations, if any leader of ukraine, uh, in the near future comes out , he will say everything, i will go to putin to negotiate. i think that in a very short time

, we will not have him not only on the bumper, but also in ukraine putin finally wanted to stop this war i think death is in you thank you mr. viktor viktor yagun deputy head of the security service of ukraine in 2014-2015 major general of the security service of ukraine military public figure was with us today we are talking about how er, each of our interlocutors er met on february 24, how did it start for him, what did it start with? well, how has this year changed? well, what to expect, what to wait for next? well, we wish . of course , putin has become a good person. victor, i'm good, putin is dead putin. well, that's how ours with him has such a small cemetery, because his entire retinue is basically the same, and those people who are shouted at, let's give lower ukraine, like that, that military

soldier with medals, it's interesting with not for what he is he took those medals and said that they should be destroyed, just a cue. if you just level it with the ground so that there is a ruin, and put the russian flag on top because kyiv has russian cities. well , there is one medal for participation in 150 solovyov programs. a medal for the killing of thousands of syrian children, they give another order. well, they give a little bit of it, and they are going to do what is next for embezzling a billion rubles there, for example, financing the army, and another medal, so, so, so, absolutely, yes, it’s possible for this, it’s possible, what’s our next guest uh mykhailo gonchar, expert on international energy and security relations, president of the center for global studies, strategy 21

, mr. mykhailo, greetings. good afternoon, let's start with the global issue. china presented its 12 points of a peaceful settlement, or how to stop the war in ukraine, i would look at something or 12 points and thought that they are not much more meaningful than putin's two-hour speech, and he even admitted himself that it was easier for him to say it than to listen to himself, so you know, self-criticism has awakened of the kremlin bunker e-e old man e same p mykhailovych 12 points well, they are not viewed as solid and i don’t see practically any benefit there what is the point well, actually speaking , could you have expected anything else from china , that is, that a certain kind of information ducking was being carried out that here- we see the chinese as a hub, we took initiatives, it was simply to warm up the corresponding positivist expectations, including with chinese propaganda, we underestimate it

, many people, well, and here is the result if you trace the evolution, although it is hardly possible here to say to use the term evolution of the chinese approach to the russian-ukrainian war or how they say the ukrainian crisis in the same way as they do it except that in fact if china uh-uh in its foreign policy activities ideologically and propagandistically it was and is and will be on the side of russia the fact that he has a different vision for everything that is happening in europe, the russian aggression against ukraine, which he does not call aggression, it is quite clear that in china, their interests include

a global character and shiasco putin's blitzkrieg has caused discomfort to china and is knocking off its plans, expansionist plans, aggressive plans . as far as this type of force reintegration is concerned, taiwan, because in the case of the success of the russian lightning strike against ukraine, let it not delay for a long time with the plans to seize taiwan and so, such a protracted war becomes uncomfortable for china. especially since if it not only changes its plans, but also brings a bunch of different troubles, well , it means that in particular in the global food market, china also has some powerful consumers of food and an importer from ukraine, so if in this context china's peace-making proposals

could not be in a different direction than such a pro-russian one, well, what they are calling for are different options for peace negotiations and solving issues through dialogue, in which there is nothing new, they are so to say, you know, the interview was very interesting. here , but more now, i will ask for a continuation of the topic about china. vitalik gave a very interesting interview. where does he think that we are now making a certain logical error? that is, we believe that china is on unlike russia and in russia , the logic is bad there, putin is abnormal and so on, of course, we read it in the dark and scrabble sources say that there, too, everyone thinks that he has gone a little off the rails, but ok, but china seems to be, well, absolutely trust some rational people and they have their own strategy, which is there for 1000 years ahead, but what if everything is not so, what if in fact these dvinkins who have actually usurped the power in china, who have been in power for so many years, that

in fact he is just the same chinese putin what if his rational decisions will not be what if the only thing he sees as rational is that the window of opportunity for some kind of chinese hemonia is closing and that they will lose exactly as k- a capitalist country as less efficient physical countries, well, that is, we know that they have almost recession now, and they grew by double digits all this time, that is, what if he sees in this the last chance to fight for harmony in the world, and this chance lies through confrontation through unification with russia and other such countries that is, will it not eventually lead to a global confrontation, this is a global confrontation, it is objectively a coalition of global evil formed, formed de facto, ask russia, north korea, iran , the most active, these four players are certain satellites that are being disguised, including in europe,

a vivid example in hungary with the morgan regime at the head of a, but here is this core, it is de facto formed, it does not need any formal agreements, agreements and so on, but after all, china is a separate country, nation, civilization, and i would not agree china has its own long-term strategy , it is not in a hurry. that's right, but you need to pay attention to one thing, unlike russia, which is aggressive by its nature , regardless of whether this is putin's russia, the current one , the soviet tsarist one, and so on. china is all - after all, it has other historical tools and approaches thanks to which it ensures its such slow expansion even with the waves when it became the object of colonization and so on

. pay attention to one thing to find there deep into the excursion the more i am not by a chinese scholar, the 79th year, the 79th year was the year when china, so to speak, of our time, resorted to external aggression against a neighboring association, it was almost a domestic company there , a complete failure for china, the vietnamese defeated those chinese forces which entered the territory of northern vietnam and it was a defeat, this is china, after which it no longer acted with methods of direct military aggression, it acts with a hybrid method, bohdan to the china sea, it acts with economic expansion, it acts with corruption, and so on. russia, on the other hand, starting with of the soviet period in the same 79th year of the creation of afghanistan, and then after the collapse of the union, this

intervention was a blunder. in this context, russia is, as it were, such an anti-western vanguard directed primarily against europe. this is such a global alliance of evil, which now, if it were to be restored and modernized, and in this context , of course, china can act as a certain regulator of the pace and speed of advancement, but it is meant to achieve the defeat of the west globally. but again, so far, china is trying to play well with its economic soft power, despite the fact that

the economic situation in china is really far from the best now compared to what was correctly noted when there were ambiguous anti-growth sentiments. but at the same time, they were talking about the fact that these two kindred spirits, beijing and moscow, will somehow, so to speak , diverge diametrically, as someone in washington has the illusion that it is possible, they say, at a certain stage , by weakening moscow, to convince putin. say to stand on the side of the west on the side of the united states in the confrontation with china, promising him some kind of comprehensive marshall plan there, as it were, some loading of relations and so on, that is, seeing in the west in the united states, first of all, the first formations of this, uh, coalition of evil are trying to kill the wedge, relations, but the option

of beating a wedge in the relationship between the two main players, china and russia, by putin 's russia due to the weakening of russia, attracting it to the west, well, this is an absolutely epic plan, and we see that these 12 points are show that china will not, er, try to play its game more accurately and introduce its own, but it will not fundamentally compromise its principles there, and will not take a position to create pressure on moscow so that the kremlin renounces further war, withdraws its armed forces there from the territory of ukraine and that they say that peace and harmony will reign, so to speak, they represent there somewhere . so, this will not happen, and in this context, let's say

that the bet is that china will be able to play some fundamental role in the settlement, as they call the crises in ukraine, well, this is illusory the rate, well, the customs is great - it is understood in ukraine, because we see that if we take , for example, the year that has passed since the first large-scale armed invasion, even such an indicator as humanitarian aid is very telling. of sanitary aid in ukraine, while little taiwan has practically provided aid, and tens of millions there are probably under $100 million in monetary aid. that is, this is just an indicator, and despite all that, not even

a single normal thing happened of political contact with beijing, with which formally there is some strange strategic partnership agreement signed during the time of president yanukovych, it is of course legally worthless, but based on the fact that chinese propaganda claimed that both russia and ukraine are aesthetic partners, then we see just such asymmetric approach to these partners with russia china really interacts as a strategic partner no matter what, and with ukraine the pop behaves according to the principle that they say smaller countries should obey and take to attention to the interests of large countries and this is essentially what is laid down, this is the approach, it may not be read at first glance, but in these 12 points exactly such a chinese approach is laid down , mykhailo, i listened to you so much and understood that

we cannot see peace, but the chinese and russians definitely do not wash, well, if we live in turbulent times and they are there, here, exactly, with italy, the porter, what about the next decade of the world, the peaceful one that we all enjoyed and knew, eh. such a world will definitely not be in the next decade, so , he, eh, if not quite noticeable to us because when there was an invasion of georgia, well, it was somewhere far away on the border of europe and so on , but even then they warned that where would the next invasion be the country of crimea, and then there would be europe. strictly speaking, europe in the context of the european union and nato, if it is not stopped here and now there is no stopping this expansion of the coalition of evil, where russia acts as a global

battering ram against the west towards china as such a power in the background but which nevertheless quietly and imperceptibly plays its game potter of international energy and security relations president of the center for global studies of strategy 21 was also with us, and now we will also continue a little bit with such a global world theme in the context of a full-scale invasion viktor shlinchak , chairman of the board of the institute of world politics , head of the information agency, head of communication with us mr. viktor, we are glad to see you on our air congratulations to my colleague, mr. viktor, if russia still manages somehow to persuade china to help, or is it possible that the world, the united states of america, europe,

will still accept ukraine into nato sooner? it seems to me that these are not completely compatible things, because china's support for russia does not mean that it is more likely in some way our progress to nato. there are more global issues here because we understand that we are now considering china as a possible ally in the war, and here the question is whether china will cross the red lines about which it has already been repeatedly hinted at and about which conditional one-time talk, namely about the supply of weapons, that is, when it continues there some humanitarian goods or cargoes shipping to russia is one story, another story, when will he actually start transferring some ammunition and will he start? it is clear that

the current peace-loving or peaceful plan of his is very beautifully written, except from the point of view of when russia would withdraw from the e of ukraine, having completely cleared our entire territory, when the trial in asia took place and when russia would have paid the number of the operation, then it was possible to move on to this peace plan for all the good and against all the bad. and now it looks like china is trying to sit on two chairs because between the support of putin's critical regime and the economic ties that he can sever with the european union and the united states of america, he has to choose something and it will be one thing, at the same time, china's diplomatic policy has always been based on the fact that it was

set first of all, according to what is happening in patches, that is, what will be discussed in some documents is one thing, and the second thing is how china will behave, and here there is still a question as to how much china is ready to invest in raw materials the appendage that we are now russia for the whale is everyone is trying, of course, to the results of this year's war of the great large-scale war between ukraine and russia , they are trying to somehow try to predict how events will develop further and turn to some historical examples of the past century, in particular, and here in new york- times published the opinion of such a researcher from the cold war, who lives in america there , but of russian origin with a ukrainian

surname, the truth is serhiy radchenko, who spends 51-53 years with the korean war and what is interesting in this story is that stalin, who actually ordered this war to begin, and stalin was in favor of continuing this war already in the stage of exhaustion, because after the first year of the war , when the americans joined it became clear that it would not be possible to win the whole war. nevertheless, stalin believed until the end that the war would end anyway and bring more benefits to russia or the soviet union. those that is, the war ended when stalin died in march, stalin died and it seems that in june or july the peace was signed, the agreement was not signed

, the hostilities actually ended. to continue i believe that the personality factor in history has not been canceled by anyone and unfortunately , it really depends on putin a lot how the events in this war will develop, of course putin's death could start will be the beginning of what russia could change the target, actually we during the last address of putin and did not hear what the actual goals of russia are pursuing, the russians did not start this. i think that many people after this address have even more questions about what they are actually fighting for, because the goals that were announced a year ago they changed over the course of a year, now

there is no common goal for which russian soldiers are dying, and i think that the russian establishment has no fewer questions than why they are suffering, because most of the russians and the establishment were in one way or another integrated into the european economy, they felt very good when they went to european resorts. they felt good in those countries where they had their own villas. now they are for them. putin did not answer the question of why they actually suffer, what their families suffer what are their children suffering for? why can't children study abroad and these issues will increase with each place of war? when the russian economy starts to fall, and it will still fall, maybe not at the pace we

wanted, but because sanctions after sanctions after all, it will take a long time for them to have a significant effect, but when the russian economy will suffer and there will not be enough money to provide for some ordinary needs, they will be sent to go to the army and armaments, and then it will continue to finance this very project after that, i think that there will be even more questions about this regime and , in fact, after that, it seems to me that sooner or later i was in russia anyway, and a mass of people are accumulating who will pass by and ask where we

are going, i mean from the top of our opinion thanks to which it was possible to convince the world that, after all, russia has serious intentions, that russia is an aggressor, that russia is a terrorist country, and who else is still taking such shaky positions . you see that such a natural evolution has taken place among european leaders who periodically came to kyiv, to ukraine, came and went to buchi, after these trips, after all, a lot changed in the attitude towards ukraine and ukrainians before the war. and

actually, after these visits to ukraine, we received a new house, more weapons. we received much more support. at the same time, if we even analyze yesterday's resolution at the un , yesterday only seven countries , including russia, signed up for russia, that is, the so-called little seven now looks like this, and these are the countries that are such a stronghold by russians on this site, but even here the number of these is decreasing because six months ago there were 10 of them, this is a country and it is falling off, even the countries of africa are moving into the category of those who are, well , that is, they are not against it, they are obtained and these countries that are obtained are also becoming fewer

that the world has understood that russia's aggression is an influence on the world economy, it is an influence on the world order, and for many countries that have missed wars because of themselves, many have missed wars for them, the war in ukraine is also such a thing. they take themselves very seriously . well, i will ask you one last question. it is very important that we not only win, but that we also cease to be, relatively speaking, russia

. am i a scoop? i am interpreting the words a little bit. it changed even inside the country less often in sumy. of joining, for example, nato. of course, he spoke about the standards of the army, we all understand that it is not only about the standards of the army, it is also part of everything that distinguishes us from, for example, the russians or from that other club of authoritarian closed countries countries from the countries of the closed world, respectively, well, there is the lisbon agreement, it formulates the main values , for example, of the european union and do we have a situation to which i am leading, for example, with now i will try to legislate to prohibit e-e in chernivtsi to have its own mayor. some very alarming call is happening, this is a parallel process in russia, where , for example, cities are deprived of the opportunity to elect their mayors , it really looks strange because, well, my opinion is, for example, to allow the use of war

in order to well, the simple question is that there is the head of poltava has, for example, so who has tarnished himself with a pro-russian position towards the new and now you are allowing yourself something there , but well, it is, it is, it is, it is a person, people , people chose him and so on yes and this and this and this we put up with it but the problem with the same atroshenko is only that he is from the opposition forces and this and this and this and it looks well it looks ugly and it looks dangerous what do you think about it the fact is that may be against several mayors applied, similar, and it seems to me that this is really the next democracy, and here the main thing in the fight against the dragon is not to become a dragon, here , andrew, hello, we are really fighting with global russia, in which we all know its

cornerstone, and the main thing is that in this struggle, then do not drag all these cornerstones to yourself, it should be surprising. i think that today at the press conference of volodymyr zelenskyi, he will be asked a lot of unpleasant questions about this, because there was such a public consensus that we conditionally saying that we do not criticize the actions of the president and his government team in general, but when some red lines are crossed, i think that society is not ready to turn a blind eye to such facts, and it seems to me that it would be fair if the president reacted to these facts and he himself would take such a position. well, it will not be there. unfortunately, yuriy butusov, in order to ask, for example, this