[000:00:00;00] oh-oh-oh and the cossack bonfire says that we are the brothers of the cossacks yes mr. vakarchuk performed the national anthem of ukraine and we have in the studio kateryna zaremba political planes not a translator author of the book sunrise of the ukrainian sun is dedicated to the east of ukraine and she does not want to now the most important events kateryna

is now in ukraine the book is being presented, let's start with why you decided to write about donbas right now, ms. kateryna , thank you, good evening. thank you very much for inviting me to talk about this, uh, i actually decided not quite now, i started uh, in 2017 i am very happy to work on this book and show it to the audience. this is what it looks like, and it is really dedicated to the donetsk region, luhansk region, and in a pro-ukrainian way, in fact, to these pro-ukrainian movements, to the communities that existed in the region until the 14th year. my idea was to simply tell about what this there are ukrainian people and ukrainian land to tell us about this region soviet and post-soviet myths and narratives promoted by both the soviet authorities and the party of regions i started work when i actually

got to know many immigrants from donetsk region from luhansk region after the 14th year, and communication with them changed my own perception of this region so much that i became even more interested, and it seemed to me that it would be fair to tell about it to a wider circle, ms. kateryna, well, i'm not an expert, i didn't study it's so simple, but it's actually this region we're putting together with became so comfortable with russian because of industry . as far as i understand it, i could be wrong, but simply because factories began to be built , moreover. my grandfather was just running away from decentralization. and he was lucky that he was a blacksmith and at the factories, kovaliv was hired in the luhansk region, and he was immediately hired at the factory, and he and he avoided the famine precisely because of the fact that

the workers were given a kilogram of bread and the children and wives half a kilogram. they would have been if they had stayed. that is, it was such an industry that created such an imagination, such a myth about the russian-speaking donbas, then the soviet basin . it is really important that the population is from donetsk region, luhansk region and that region, which became known as donbas, although we know that donbas is the donetsk coal basin and they do not coincide a little, so let's look at the borders , playing for this military basin does not coincide with the administrative border of venes of luhansk region. and this is was a region where at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century, the majority of the population spoke ukrainian, this is evidenced by the census of the russian empire

conducted in 1897. at the end of the 20th century, we see the reverse picture, 90% of the city dwellers speak russian in the region, the national industry was affected, the holodomor was affected, russification was affected in this region, as it is critically important for the economy of this soviet union, and after ukraine already gained independence, we actually see that if we talk about the language, the number speakers, the number of those who chose russian as the first ukrainian language, of course, but it actually increased after 1991, and did not decrease. ukrainization did not occur in donetsk luhansk oblast of independent ukraine and at the same time talk about i don't want to just repeat these tracings on the air about this region

as not belonging to anti- ukrainian countries . pro-russian, but then let's interpret what pro-russian or european jews mean, the economic union and customs with russia, until the 14th year, enjoyed proximity not only to one or more luhansk regions, and i just wanted to tell you about what the people were who in march 2014 came out by the thousands to a rally for ukraine in donetsk and luhansk and in other cities and in mariupol there were euromaidans if we say let's accept the data as the beginning of these protests only , more people came out for ukraine in the east than for the euro maidan that's also true well and this is only one, you know, such iskra is, as it were, a small illustration of those processes that were absolutely underground in the literal and figurative sense, those who are interested in the east are sure to know the work of the american historian-hero, bitter

rumours, about freedom and terror in donbas, and he writes about the fact that there were no civil movements in this region, and this is not the case, there were civil movements there, they were actually ukrainian dissidents, and the ukrainian helsinki union and its founding fathers come from the ukrainian east, and this is only, again, this is only one of the historical periods a-a vasyl stus is also a representative of the region as an emergency , we also need to somehow understand it. how did it happen that the region that was the most revolutionary of all ukrainian regions, perhaps except for galicia, suddenly became a center of conservatism politically because i went to the donbas in the late 80s and early 90s because there were shakhtar spices and for all of us it was the same job as going. i apologize to tallinn dovilnis or to lviv. i went to horlovka, i didn't see it. i talked there with people who were my political associates

. they were miners. they didn't talk to me about verbal questions because they didn't say listen. one of the leaders of these mining stage shows, but this there will be people who reminded me of lehabalensa, that's how it was, it was such a political revolutionary movement. i would even say that these people who were in some platform in the cpsu, they were not such revolutionaries, so much smaller, and here suddenly these people were supported massively, i see this the mining community and i then began to think how did it happen that the majority of these people lost this influence and that suddenly people of a completely different er-e type became influential, this economic disturbance or what? so where is the nesa of kazan marina veratynska how ukraine was losing the donbas and there it is just told about how the local is absolutely not loyal to the idea of ​​ukrainian statehood in the summer

and actually suppressed this strike and absolutely illegally so sk-criminal schemes took advantage of those economic and industrial opportunities which in the krai it was almost the same way revolutionaries became the main supporters of this authoritarianism, and what you vitalik are talking about is really important. this is the kind of peasant democratic movement that we actually see now uh in the countries of western europe so when at some point workers do not go to work they go on strike and this is a political tool to achieve their goals well as a peaceful protest, well in donetsk region and luhansk region these peaceful protests were suppressed by force, i see in this such an eradication at a certain point this democratic tradition, which really cannot be forgotten, mrs. kateryna, i also have such a negative person. yes, i just had

a case when yanukovych asked me to make a film about him after his defeat in the orange revolution, and his entourage did not do it and accordingly, this helicopter is not standing nearby, otherwise how would i make a movie, i think i would have a helicopter, the owner is so many who think who offers such movies and then neither helicopters nor movies trust me, i know what i am saying, but that is not the question the question is that i i began to think, in principle, what kind of film about yanukovych is possible, but if a person came from ecuador to new zealand who does not know ukrainian history, does not know donbas, i do not know anything, then i began to understand that when we criticize yanukovych that he was imprisoned twice what i know about donbass, i.e. luhansk oblast and donetsk oblast, if you didn't live in the 60s , then you don't leave our sandbox. that is, it was the norm, it was the inner heroes, so

royally romantic, yes, they were the inner heroes, and then i thought to listen you know, donbass is a huge tragedy. a colossal social tragedy because if we take donbass in the late 1950s and late 1940s and early 1960s, there are either virtukhaye or zeki, and for what variety we see there, for example, the ukrainian insurgent army , who were sent there en masse. but they are on the second generations were killing the language well, because well, it’s fasting shakhtar yes, and there had to be some kind of police around, i’m not the kgb militia . well, to protect them, then doctors and teachers were definitely bought there, because children are born and so on, but my father told me when he was 15 years old er, this is the famous phrase wall to wall was the norm, that is, this

proletarian zekivski is such a leaven, he says i did not fight, but i know for sure that on fridays there were fights and there were one or two corpses, not just with fists, but so seriously, and he says that this there was a problem, a real problem, and people who maybe he sat somewhere for half a year, it happens conditionally but he is the hero of the widget a little higher in class than his surroundings and if you didn't sit, if yanukovych didn't sit, he wouldn't have become the president of ukraine, it's terrible, i said the phrase no matter what they supported in donbas and donbas, i wouldn't delegate him in kyiv somehow, first the prime minister and then the president, you know about yanukovych's election in donbas, when we say, we must remember the conditions under which these elections took place , which administrative resource was used to control this election, so well, i can't say yes

that no one voted. of course, he had his electorate, but you still need to understand that these are not free, free, democratic elections as we imagine them. well , by standards, i want to say, you know, you mentioned your father, and at the same time, you are obviously a ukrainian tv presenter having an education, having a certain upbringing, you read certain books, and people like you grew up in donetsk region, luhansk region, and i am talking about people who were born in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. oleksiichuk could belong to universities like olena styazhkina, and there were quite a lot of these people , they were involved in various fields, the history of father promyslova is such a big true myth, but next to him there were other professions

, other family activities, and among them there was the ukrainian idea. it is important to pay attention to this because the conversations they often have about the book and about donbas in general confirm what we already know about it. yes, it is an industrial region, but not only that, and this is important to me, and you in particular, i think it is also an example of what, you know, wall to wall existed in kyiv . please tell me, can we talk about the unity of the region at all, because, after all, it also surprises me if we look even at donetsk and luhansk oblasts. we see that they i would say that the region in luhansk oblast is a part of slobozhan oblast. donetsk itself is a big metropolis, which is not only an industrial university, scientific institutions , intelligentsia, local theaters, an opera and

ballet theater, to which mrs. yanukovych with his traditions, father. i try, but we all remember. nevertheless , it was a part of the cultural life of the important ukraine, such a simple visa, no, i do not understand at all how it can be united, because it is much easier to unite a part of donbas connect with the e-e sound not a russian city in which the russians destroyed all the mines in the end and there were already cast people who could live peacefully in ukraine, it was the ukrainian ethnic population that was russified because russia decided to divide the donbas on purpose, not by accident. so when we combine simply occupied territories with this term, here i agree to a certain extent with mr. danylov, who himself was the mayor of luhansk, who obviously did not perceive his region as an integral plus of the azov region, yes mariupol well, it is a different world in general, i can only say one thing in the 18th year, if

we remember the history, was there a constituent assembly in the soviet empire, or was it the post-post empire of the saar empire, and as far as i remember donetsk , the kryvorizka basin had then 21st place in the constituent assembly in st. petersburg, which the bolsheviks dispersed in the 18th year in my place we dedicated to him the day of his birth, the fifth of january, it happened from the 21st place to strove from independence to autonomy 18, that is , three out of twenty one stood for the empire, all the rest in one way or another for ukrainian independence or broad autonomy, linguistic , cultural or complete independence well, there was definitely voroshilov as well. i think it was one of these three who said no, no , we will build communism here on magnetism, you can explain it to people today, you can explain it, well, it is necessary. how should i

talk about it? because when we combine it, they gave their the donbas industrial umbrella probably not everyone even knows. so here the contents are layered, but the meaning is that it really is definitely different among themselves, different within themselves, and if, for example, you go to the north of luhansk region or to the azov region of mariupol and ask how do you live in donbas people they will say yes, we are not in donbass, donbass is not here, higher, lower, that is, even there there is an understanding that donbas is not, does not coincide with administrative borders, and our problem, if it is not a problem, is that you are just those who are not in re, we are not see we are talking about donbass is about something so monolithic, and you, mr. mykola, just thank you for the confirmation, uh, he aspires to independence, because the number that i love very much and i always quote, i refer to it , how much of the population of donetsk region did not support the independence of ukraine in the referendum, and this number is more than 80% 80 3

with pennies, if i'm not mistaken , it's correct and the referendum is real . of course, yes. well, thank you. yes, thank you. for example, political analysts. ms. catherine's book congratulations on the release now every book is worth its weight in gold i would say yes and now we will fly to the united states of america now we will have the united states yuri rashkin political and public figure of the united states good health mr. yuri we are switching to the russian language as it were someone didn't like it, but let's move on. hello. hello, yuriyovich. you see. glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes. yuriy . tell me

, please. ukrainians are all enthusiastic, it’s clear that russians are not enthusiastic, they are drooling, apparently poisoned, i suspect it ’s the saliva of the lernai guitar. stock exchanges, banks, success, lack of unemployment, and so on, or still, with one eye, an american is looking at europe, somehow he thinks about ukraine, that i won’t even count on everything, everything is donald trump’s political program, it would said yuri, in just 30 seconds, it is possible for polytechnologists to be calm, we are on forte, we are there, and it turned out well. with yanukovych , it will turn out as of course there. tens

of millions will pay. yes, this is the parking lot. i don’t know at fort vasiliy, but you know the visit , which biden’s visit, he thinks is new on the front pages of our newspapers, and it’s a natural, historical visit . there is an increase in gasoline prices, this will eventually happen, we will forget it. but biden's visit will be remembered for a long time - you will remember and compare it with kennedy's visit to west berlin with reagan's visit to the same west berlin and uh and now biden is in kiev, eh, this is an improbability, a bold concession, and not by night will it be said that trump, on the one hand, hid in a bunker from unarmed protesters in front of the white house, and on the other hand, refused to go and forgive

the memory of the fallen american soldiers in the first the world war, that is, the war has already ended 100 years ago. when at one point he refused , he did not want to go there because it was raining in france, so we see that the big difference is how different presidents are because they make the weather, but on the other hand, of course, the opposition in the united states which were once thought that the controversy ends on the shore as it was said that when the president leaves the country, we, as if everything is over for the president, now it’s over, and the republicans tell us that instead of that in order to go to ukraine, the president had to go to ojai because there was a big life there. a road accident , well, which was also connected with the fact that donat trump canceled and the system there was bioregulation of security, which were brought to well, this is how we go to the club in american politics. so, in principle, this is a historical visit. there are no questions

here, but the opposition will ask us about it. somehow we quickly forgot about it, and when it comes to elections. to that the war will end and the victory of ukraine will come to an end, and all i will say is how wonderful biden is, this does not guarantee him victory in the elections for the second term simply because in the end the question will be what is the situation in the united states on election day or a month before the elections yury a tell me, if you look now and imagine, well, we see that the economy , well, let's say, is mildly sluggish, we see that unemployment is not growing, we see that the stock market is somewhat more or less stable, we see the good work of the central bank of the american uh, we see biden's activity in the international arena, on

the other hand , we see a lot of trump, who came to aha and said that it was necessary to come here. these are two questions : can biden win and under what conditions? the wife just gave an interview and said how many times do they need to tell you that he will be re-elected so that you will finally believe eh, so we are just waiting at what moment, because for now he is pulling his ties to the jews the race for the re-examination of briania, so until he made this statement, until then, everything will be discussed , whether it will happen, unfortunately, normally, and after she announces it, i think that he will not have a serious competitor

in the democratic party, and therefore it arises the question is who will represent the republican party, and at the moment we see two heads of the republican party , such leading candidates , one of them is donald trump, who announced that he is going to regroup because he needs it how would the criminal investigation goes away and the money is collected by the savior , that is why he has already announced, and the second is the governor of florida, desantis, who is indeed a working politician, and therefore it gives him an advantage, he only won in re-elections by 20 points, and the redistricting of his opponent, a democrat, so he can now be like today's winner , and he finally spoke out about ukraine and said that russia is too weak, we don't need to do more at all, and we won't get involved in any conflicts at all because of for some borders, because of some crimea, after this , it became a landing party, everything became clear about him , i will say something about foreign policy, but in today's

republican party, there can be no second chance if you want to win, the rules are that you must be a scumbag, this is a very important quality, and the fact that even trump sometimes does not satisfy the voters because he lost as a loser, star and here is the idea of ​​this anti-zionist idea continues to triumph, so we see such a person with a test on their ability to say that trump it is difficult to win the primaries , after all, his team and those who support him are the worst and they will not vote for anyone else, therefore trump needs now to have as many candidates as possible of the republican side, then this will increase his chances, because this is the crushing of this pie, his piece does not change. according to the size , the more candidates the better, or it is what happened in the 16th year, and then when the primaries take place, the chances are that at the moment trump will win the presidential races for

the general elections , it seems to me that everything is simply decreasing a year and a half for this moment, see there is such a version and it’s interesting what they will say . biden because a young fit handsome paratrooper can win from biden, and then it is possible for the sake of trump, how much is this, this is this , this is logic . he has the right to life.

because it is absolutely the same as what everyone else thinks, they think only about themselves, about themselves, this is ego, so to speak, the classics of ego genres, thinking about oneself, moreover, there are sufficiently serious theories that if the landing party becomes the candidate of the republican party, then trump can simply break away and arrange his own the party will win not even because it can mean something, but simply because it gives him the opportunity to collect gigantic money , again with his own paste, and the fact that the reshablika party will lose at the same time. and tell me, do you understand what the reasons are now eh what is happening eh with the american chinese confrontation you know what is happening eh what biden said about that is that we are ready to compete trade in the economic sphere, well, if china decides that they will decide that it is necessary to invest and help russia , then we will have to stop or

seriously review our trade relations with china, that china is absolutely unnecessary, i am here i really think that if china will supply weapons to russia, then this is not necessarily a winning option either, because i am sure that they will train and teach people there for a long time and nothing will happen to them. i remember the old story about how we ended up in russia. x years machines for roads for asphalt and they immediately broke down because no one understood that they needed to be cleaned in the evening, so simply receiving weapons from china does not automatically guarantee help or any success, but nevertheless our intelligence already says that we know that china will think about it, and don't look at the fact that china has now proposed plan a-a for the regulation of decisions and the world, in general, it is impossible to say that the joint pants are serious and perceive it . as state secretary brinken said more than once today including the fact that this war can end any day if vladimir putin decides to do so. here

we don't even need the chinese at all, it's just that vladimir putin needs to stop fighting, and the relationship between the united states and china is now quite complicated. air balloon who was shot down, but not me, the president doesn’t care about his personal relationship with the russians, he is ready for these, i look at these personal relationships , they are trying to avoid a serious conflict, and we definitely don’t want a war for taiwan to start with the help of ukraine, show china that it is not necessary to get involved in such military adventures. it is a very bad idea, but here. unfortunately , i don’t know how lucky i am, but we cannot solve this decision of china here for them. yuriy, one more important question. they always talk about it in ukraine, these days they talk even more about how you feel , i don't even understand what's not here nobody knows nobody can get into biden's head well, biden

is interested in a quick end to the war in europe, precisely in ukraine, because when ukrainians are talking, we want 23 in the 1st year, he will finish it, he finds a response from biden, what he says, blinken, they say a moment, yes, we need to help , or he says, don’t let’s go quickly, don’t finish, let’s pull it a little bit , let’s go to kyiv, poets, speak zelensky , so that he doesn’t think that we’re the same the same we will help a lot, what biden thinks, what is beneficial, think, think, an eighty-year-old man who does not want to rush, wants for a price, what is this, it sounds somehow unrealistic, ah, so let's all be careerists, eh, first of all, we have financial foundations they will resume the vote, they will vote again, er, in september, october, this is with a new congress , which, on the one hand, i really like that the delegation from the republic of russia appeared in kyiv and declared that they will support

financing and continue financial assistance it is wonderful for ukraine, but on the other hand, the speaker of the house of representatives, a republican, said that we will not give a blank check to ukraine, although in reality he never explained it, and therefore there is a short-term incentive and desires. win on the other hand, we see a historical example when the annexation of crimea and the donbas territories took place and obama began to oppose putin , but apparently he was lucky that hillary clinton read the law after it, and hillary clinton did not got into the white house, therefore, biden here historically understands that one cannot leave anything to be done neither to one's successor nor to one's successor, nor to the next president , one cannot hope and count on the other side, nevertheless, the only thing that is happening here is debt. we hear things about how we will be with ukraine as long as it takes , therefore in what in what global