[000:00:00;00] in germany, munich or franco is what provincial cities, that is, in europe, in western europe, the concept of the concept of a province . there is an imperial center, there is a province, let's say some kind of federation yes yes and then we are in today's world well, the center of the world is where you want the whole center of the world to build, you can live in a village have a computer and create a revolution in it but this idea of ​​provincialism is here artificially implanted so, yes, yes, and the concept of the first capital and the concept of this connection with moscow, for it is undoubtedly a soviet concept. after the 90s , they tried to extend it until today.

- was perceived differently. i believe that the people who lived here in kharkiv in this soviet myth of the first capital , they believed that this adds to kharkiv's sympathy from , say, the center, and i came across in one of the polish jewish publications the memoirs of the singer's older brother after visiting kharkiv, let's give a map when he was in the capital of the ukrainian ssr, and here he tells that he is traveling in a compartment with uh, well, it is exactly the same as what he sees in warsaw or in lviv, in lviv, and the russian officer is angry, what is kharkiv kharkiv and what a hairdresser and look well, that's right, but it's a play, it's life, there's nothing this russian lacks, if you accept a nationalist , he's a ter-nationalist, he came to the soviet city, he's the lord here, but he feels himself, i

also wrote him a completely artificial what's behind this the same imperial chauvinism simply stood as a takeaway under red flags. it is also clear that all this uh-uh all this attempt to reconcile the national idea with the international idea ended in the 1930s, 33-37. when in fact kharkiv was just a flamboyant character, it is called vinegar a can of pepsi is empty when you twist it like that, this is exactly what kharkiv was like in 1937, when the capital was taken from here, although you also know that, yes , you know this is a myth, which you actually know, in fact , it is not so clear-cut on the one hand, well for me, i definitely do not accept or unequivocal any negative connotations of the term the first capital, because behind it is simply the defeat of the ukrainian people's republic, the defeat of ukrainian statehood and this quasi-quasi-independence of the ukrainian ssr, and on the other hand, well, it was some kind of desperate attempt , after all, you know how to stand on a tightrope and

to still try to combine internationalism and , conditionally speaking, nationalism is to combine soviet classism and this is the brilliant generation of artists, engineers, scientists and political figures in the 20s who tried after all to get used to the side of the minotaur, they didn't succeed. or maybe it's the other way around, maybe it's just people, people who lost, tried to take advantage of this situation that they were put in to save at least something, this is how i apologize to the warsaw ghetto theater. you understand that the ghetto is already closed, everything is closed, but you still you always try to play performances, if it is similar, in fact, you know it , well, i don’t know, it’s obvious to someone, it’s obvious to someone, the defeat of the unr and it was a big compromise and it was an opportunity to just continue to talk or write or sing in ukrainian but it is clear that this is just a huge compromise and the concept of the concept of catastrophe is just a-a well, it brings a little postponement, but for someone, well

, i am convinced that for whom it was sincere, that is, it was falling in love with the left idea, falling in love with the bolsheviks, falling in love with the soviet government, it was quite possible sincere for this generation means who did not fight, maybe or who fought but from the side of the reds because , well, there were many of them too, that’s right, someone went from the ranks of the energizers to the ranks of the red writers, and someone from the ranks of the soviet government and someone from the soviet army, someone has been here and there, like volodymyr sausyura, for example, i once passed such a person's house in kyiv on a green day yesterday, and i think it was already a reconstruction, and he told me that he once walked here with a peasant. wow, they were going to be captured by the central committee you can probably which party yes and what did you discuss melenchuk question and here gonchar tells me he told me olesya you will not live but where i live but you will definitely live to the moment when

my rita will be here our flag i can't believe that haha -ha well, gonchar did not look like a good person to listen to something, besides, he didn't really like er, er, er, these people, as we can see about the diary. i think that it was so, well, we just wish. in this way, he could have said everything about it, and it could have been an intellectual provocation, also from the side it is desirable, but on the other hand, it is desirable to have been the son of a maneriv woman. listen, well, and desire. you know this, in principle, as a person, a metaphor , as a person, an emblem of the entire ukrainian soviet culture. that is, you can now take the pose of such a radical and say that all this means a venal generation that betrayed the ukrainians gave, as i said, and nekedonosilo, and so on, all these tychyns of sosyura and bazhan, on the other hand, one can imagine what would have happened if they had not existed, one can imagine what would have happened if our ukrainian culture really had a break in the ties between generations. let's say that the culture was an emigrant, it is certainly possible to imagine , for example, that the soviet

government, the kremlin government, is just starting a policy of russification much tougher and much earlier , and let's just say, why do you want ukrainian soviet literature? so be it. just soviet literature and why do you need this ukrainian encyclopedia that you were working on, mykola platonovych, there is a beautiful encyclopedia in moscow, everything is there for you, we did it all , why do we have this institute of literature , why do you need the shevchenko museum, why do you need any national things at all if we have an internationalist and this do you know that it can be assumed that it is like and that it is some kind of fantasy it can be assumed that it could be quite realism , it is not a fantasy, this is what is happening in russia now , what the bolsheviks could not do to the people is happening to the people of russia of the soviet union because they were afraid, they saw the national movement and they understood that this is something that somehow does not grow, that is, if you do not give, if you do not seek it in time , if you do not submit, then it will grow because these are the things that they you can't stimulate them, you can't artificially create it, well, it's something on the level of mentality, on the level of identity, well, it always breaks through

, that's right, but on the other hand, really, norwegians always suffer with this, i would say the knuto hamson complex, i was in norway at the moment when they seem to me to be the first time either they issued a postage stamp aha or there was some series they issued e-e discs of movies on e works well there are absolutely some jubilee things it was some kind of big anniversary and for the first time after the second world war they allowed themselves such a street no but on the other hand just to say that here is a great writer, well, again, i don’t even know if the norwegian people would be the way we know them without knut hampson, because it’s almost like shevchenko for ukrainians, and on the other hand, a man was vacillating and wrote an obituary. what’s up with that? to do this is a question of the splitting of the soul, it seems to me that ukrainians really want a situation with this soviet poets and this should

be said to themselves and to writers and to understand how to live with it in general, it seems to me no , it's a little different well, these are fundamentally different things because we were a colony, we were occupied. that is, it can be called of course . i think that hamson had the opportunity, i don't know, to leave, even like, for example, brecht , of course, if he were not supporters of views. and we are also talking about people who they were conscious workers, in relation to the same bazan or in relation to the same saussure or in relation to what you have done, how can we now read the consciousness and their attachments to the soviet government and in principle will prove communism and it seems that we are so broken everything is so broken it is ambiguous what to do now such simplified some give simplified estimates well this is honestly not quite correct it means being smart in retrospect well i am just looking for exactly this is this this opportunity this is interaction because

i believe that the people cannot abandon their own culture if its representatives, say, acted in a contradictory way. yes, but this contradiction is also the same. it is the same. i would not simplify it. do you remember that this is a study by meiss, where he tried to show this whole project of the soviet from the point of view of ukraine, the people who created it at the national level, not from the point of view of moscow, but from the point of view of the colonizers who came here, brought the troops here, they brought the troops here, so the nk of vodists hired people who started working for them, but from the point of view of the people which ones otherwise, they tried to see the meaning in this, in the construction of socialist ukraine itself, attempts to defend some national interests, and here everything becomes much more paradoxical and much more ambiguous , let's say the figure of skrypnyk, here we have a monument to a violinist, and someone says that it is definitely soviet the figure of which it is necessary to decommunize it and so on . and i think that well, a lot can be said, and this is far from hidden information from the other

side, and the very phenomenon of ukrainization, and the very phenomenon of cultural development, which is great to the extent that the fiddler was lobbied and supported only by people who have no monuments and who can play an even greater role as christians rakovsky, the first head of the soviet union of ukraine, he came to kyiv for negotiations with the government from skoropadskyi and spoke about why the main thing in этом языке разговоряется этого языка no , but a couple of years later, he was the person who convinced vladimir lenin that ukraine should be a sovereign republic of the soviet union and advocated ukrainization. of the soviet government, or in order to show how interesting this process is, but it should be studied. in fact, it seems that in order to agree that more communism can be built in the ukrainian language, you just have to not be a chauvinist, and the problem is that the soviet union was built after the ministers of state it's not intonationalism anymore, it's just

russian that the minister cleans it, even petrovsky well, i said 10 minutes ago that in fact the soviet system is what is behind the red scenes, of course, imperial the chauvinistic model, that is, the same thing. just undertones of internationalism with quotations from marx. well, the question arises as to which country to build culturally now, how far is it possible to build a ukraine, let’s say, in which people realized the value of their national cultural achievements, to what extent can ukraine be imagined in general, what kind of people look specifically at kyiv and they don't feel like provincials. it seems to me that something similar is happening now. it seems to me that just well, first of all, this is really me, i see it, there is a big demand for some cultural values ​​on their own historical narratives on their own well, in principle, on their own values, that is, people are trying to understand and what we had here

and what i don't know and what i managed to miss and what i didn't read what i didn't hear what i didn't see and you know that this kind of liknep at the level of the whole society is very interesting. i don't know what will come out of this yet, but it is very interesting and it is obviously not enough for the construction of some new cultural model. it is obvious that it will not be enough. it is obvious that our ukraine is bigger and here if we want. indeed to build some kind of harmonious model. yes, we have to understand, we have to know, we have to take into account the historical experience that we have, which is not terribly ambiguous and not terribly, but so broken, and here is also the austro-hungarian experience and the polish experience and some other things because well, ours, we talked here about the fact that the russians imposed on us the opinion that odessa without russian culture is not odessa, that it is impossible, if another thing was formulated that, for me, ukrainian culture is without the presence there

, for example, of the peasant bruno schultz or joseph company or konrad and well, this is also not quite a complete culture, so it seems to me that there should be a change in us here, not in who is included in the school program, but in how passionately we relate to our history and our culture. ukrainians already have it significantly. i don't know. agreed. you disagreed. there is this big flaw. we are very easy on our own. but you want to take malevich and take away. do you want to take away bogomazov ? he is an expert. do you want to take away? i am not talking about the textbook case with gogol. do you want it? take away 100 years from us, we don't need your gogol and this only applies to a thousand of me and why do we have to scatter them if it's all ours, that's a component, the question is in what form it should be united, that's definitely why actually consciously or unconsciously, you called the writers how they wrote in the polish german language on this territory and on this territory they wrote in russian no less

, even more well, you, gogol, then yes and but there are the same russian writers who lived here like konrad , like british-polish, well, if you don’t know polish, british arose i don't know anything, i won't even talk about the textbook example of bulgakov, but there are a lot of such people. and where do you put them? victor is not handsome. whose writer is boris? was he our kharkiv kharkiv symbol - what does a symbol mean? well, a person who was very important for democratic kharkiv kharkiv is that well, that's what we all need , i'm not talking about the fact that we must include all russian-speaking writers or russian writers in ukrainian and literary i'm not about that i'm about what otherwise, we have to take into account that our cultural process is a-and it cannot be reduced to this , the ukrainian newspaper. well, this is wrong.

for example bulgakov well, here is the path, because i want a gym in kyiv, which is located on yamska street, and this is the same street where the action of kuprin’s novel took place, and it wasn’t in russia, it was in kyiv, i understand that yes, but for me it is outside the ukrainian cultural context of ya i always think, that is, when i lived in moscow. well, i always equated it with this novel of cuprinations, which later, over the years , i realized that it was not in moscow at all. well, look , i’m rather talking about theatrical circles, about artistic circles, in which the position is traditionally expressed a conversation because here it is very easy to mean that it is enough to mention bulgakov's last name and a quarrel begins and everything goes on constructive conversation is proved ah in fact it already is a cultural process it is already much broader than just a-a russian-language or ukrainian-language literature of course, i think that this is a mutual perception. none of us perceives mickiewicz, chopin and simkiewicz, or as part of the russian world, they are all exposed to the russian language, they had russian passports, yes, yes. well, plus, you also understand

, here, too, you mentioned mickiewicz, you also mentioned the jealousy of mickiewicz's argument between lithuania and poland is also where there is a normal attitude towards one's heritage where there is no repulsion. and i am probably the opposite. here is this passionate absorption, that is, we appropriate to ourselves what has a relationship with us , what worked, decides what did not work against let's put it this way, by the way, it's already a formula that it worked that they work for us because well , if bulgakov was an undisguised or poorly hidden ukrainophobe, then it's obviously ridiculous and harmful to try to insert him into this canon and obviously he won't be there is a local very important writer for kyiv and because this myth of andriyivskyi is undoubtedly by and large but you understand what it is, let's say this myth , how pro-ukrainian is it, how harmful or not harmful for us why why not replace it's a ukrainian myth of e-e transport, which i think can be quite easily formulated because it is kyiv, a ukrainian city, and why should we use other people's narratives? i'm not saying what

we have, i'm saying what we were doing now. you understand, i 'm talking about how it is in our country. it is being done. well, in our country, for a part, even those who are kyivans who were born and grew up in kyiv, who love their city, love their country . persian because it was created that way because of upbringing because of reading through school because of safety school because of education yes well then you can say a very important thing is actually the teacher wins so we always talk talked about education it's always a question of what i think if they don't just if there wasn’t i can say yes to bazhana tychyna and sosyura and if there wasn’t a ukrainian teacher even in a russian school, i don’t know what it would look like, i don’t know because i saw soviet schools in kazakhstan, there were no longer any in belarus there was much less kazakh or belarusian teacher there than one of belarusian language and literature, which language is literature, there was not this

clear desire not just to interest, but clearly to say how to us who was told by one of my teachers of the ukrainian language at school if you if there are not, you will not be able to pass this subject anywhere won't go anymore, that's why i was with you, too, i was defensive, i'm with you, i don't just agree with myself, i absolutely agree, because, well, look , actually, since the 14th year, my friends and i have been doing a lot of volunteering. self-education system in donetsk region, luhansk region, and here in kharkiv region, we cooperated with dozens of boarding schools, lyceums, universities, in particular, you mentioned donetsk national university in the conversation today, and well, it was obvious from this that teachers are interested in having their children grow up in them talented self-sufficient implemented ukrainian but they had opportunities and they gave an incredible result i remember, for example, well, definitely , i often remember well, not often, regularly

i remember from time to time i remember now we have battles for flint, i had a fantastic lyceum there, there were incredible children who participated in some programs of the academy of sciences , who constantly went to some olympiads, who constantly wrote works there, and you were in kriminia , it's not a big town, it's such a village, even that but there is this lyceum and it is obvious because there were incredible teachers there who, first of all, loved their work, secondly, their children, and thirdly, all this was somehow consistent with their attitude to the country, well, that's what what you are talking about is not provincialism such a tool can exist, it is not necessary that it was in kharkiv or in kyiv, yes. well, like in great britain somewhere, there is a cambridge-born man. but it is silent to stand outside london, which is the center of civilization, and it seems to me that we had such places. well , ostrog, yes, stop, definitely and definitely, well. you also understand us , for example, in our country, all these new educational projects are a little bit autonomous, these are old universities

, for example, our karazynskyi, which to this day remains a certain symbol and a certain engine of the city, because to a large extent, a lot of things are happening, happening, i am convinced that what will happen next. and there are such new structures , for example, uku, for example, ostrog , for example, the mohyla academy, which i seem to have a certain moment . they are interesting, it is a completely different model of education, and a completely different philosophy of education, and it gave results again . tell me what you think about ukraine after the end of hostilities, we should talk after the victory but the victory is not just over there, once it is over, it is still later, people are not easy, social. will it be a rejected society, and i think it will be a large number of social problems, it is already visible, demographic, social communication , and in fact, in fact, it is no less frightening than the situation now at the front but now we are already

a topic for a separate conversation because, well, there is a whole complex of huge problems, such as today , he is appointed, he is accumulating, he is growing, and so far no one at all is with him works well, here is the question: what can we really do about it , what can we do about it , this is the work of society? society, interaction with the government puts pressure on the government or replaces the state well, that i have never considered good no , i don't think that i am replacing it, it seems to me that it puts a shoulder when the government is forced to respond to a public request to the public press to public pressure to public claims and reacts in one way or another, and then something positive will happen where the government takes the initiative, well, the state, i said the government , the state, yes, it is not exactly the business of the government , because the government can be a different state when it takes this initiative very often . it is not he gives himself advice because well, by and large, our state means that it is an old

soviet car, and even if this car was not pushed by society, this car has not gone far, this does not mean that this car does not need to be modernized, it cannot be modernized yet it is possible and necessary to modernize, but experience shows that in our country something most interesting happens where there is no interaction between society and an active society and the state. i just always dream that the state was effective so that people could clearly know that they paid their taxes in turkey, and we all the time, and we are , by the way, by and large , the phenomenon associated with shevchenko created such a psychological people of uprisings and ukrainians can stand up to defend themselves. shevchenko, yes, that is, to beat, to ring the bell, to raise the community in order to solve everything here and then return to work , well, listen to this, of course, that these are not the most important things, that it would be better to live in a calm

, stable political state system and not have a clear substance to have other problems but well, it fell out to be used at this time and here we can either fold our hands and then they will solve our problems for us and it is not at all necessary that they will solve them on our chicken not so effectively well, but the simple question is how capable ukrainians are this is the most important question right now, are we able to build an effective state? because the problem here is what, if it turns out to be so , we can conditionally find ourselves in the euro, the european union, but from the statue of this periphery, which i really didn't want to be. well, i won't call the countries of central europe but i am also certain countries that are simply lost in all this, the organization and the united europe, they are walking. well, i think we have sat, we are definitely not in danger . reform drive again, i understand that many people laugh when they talk about ukrainian reforms, how can i not laugh, i actually watched with great interest

what was happening in our country in the 14th year , it seemed to me, well, i looked at it with cautious optimism therefore, it seems to me that we felt that we cannot influence our country, we can influence the authorities, we can influence the local authorities in kyiv, but because there is no particular difference, because, again, this is a provincial complex. it seems to me this is something that ukrainians are leaving forever, that is, regardless of where you live in a small village or, say, in lviv. you can take a train and go tomorrow to the maidan in kyiv and demand from the authorities the changes you need. a possible lesson this year is that the local government really has a real meaning, and not just in the repair of sewers, but in the unification of communities where the mayors have proven to be effective and ready , the world looks completely different there than where the local government has appeared. well, listen, and agree or not agree and what about this decentralization reform itself, well, it was very important for years, that is, it immediately began to change

the rules of the game. i think it is that the politicians in kyiv did not have time to notice this, that they, for them, it turned out to be a surprise, because in the future , and some of them did act according to this model in kuchmiv, yanukovych ukraine, where i am the center, but there is this periphery that we are talking about, but in ukraine it has already stopped working, and it seems to me that if it were not for the war - it is a big one, then we would have very interesting things were happening now i won't say the processes by region, i won't say by province, because we agreed not to use the word by region. and it's possible. in this way, ukraine is already insured against the vozhdyk-type regime , because after the war, the regime is a vyzhlyv-type regime for a long time, and i think i think so , definitely more well, it seems to me, again, remember history, usually the government that wins the war, and we are far from winning this war, but if we believe in our victory, we believe in the victory of ukraine, and again, we remember that history shows that the government that wins the war very quickly loses its popularity, and if you are on a horse today, if you are a hero

today, if you are on the covers of all magazines today, well, i don't want to name your name, but we understand that if you are the leader of the free world and a country that is fighting, this does not mean anything at all that a year after the end of the war, you will remain on these very covers, or if you learn to solve other problems, it seems to me that like you, like them, no matter how perfect you are , no matter how efficient you are. otherwise, a change, a change in the atmosphere, a change in the very situation, the end of the war, if people will also solve their problems at that time, or do i see, well, experience shows that, well, all the winners quickly lost their popularity, some of them then came back, some did not come back. yes, yes, or otherwise, even churchill. remember the story, that’s why i think that we are definitely not waiting for the stalinism of the later years, the coach is not waiting for it, there is no doubt about it, and the people who will return from flanto will be participants in the political process and

how effective it will be if society, let's say he fought, let him solve our problems today, because you probably are. to be honest, talking with our troops, well, it's also obvious, i see that the military is very different from us. so, sometimes they talk about the armed forces of ukraine. and about the volunteers and about the mobilized as a certain whole , which is something so homogenous, in fact, this environment is very different , well , there are very different. weapons in his hands, but he doesn't even know the president's last name, it's confusing, so i think it 's unlikely that these people will be returned. he will not go

. well, you will understand that the ukrainian army ukrainian army - this is quite precisely the growth of ukrainian society, so obvious. well, as for me, for any country, this is how i read a poem about them. they are professional, yes, professionals . we are a little different from the army. well, all the more so because it is formed in such conditions of fire directly. yes when people just ran, they ran from there with some kind of bags or with hunting rifles to the checkpoints and only there they already got normal weapons and normal normal uniforms that's why it's a little different here. and the last time you look at the streets of kharkiv and optimistic. do you feel realistic, let's say yes, i am realistic. i understand that kharkov . well, you understand. well, what is this realism? it is not pessimistic and it is not involved in despair, it is involved in enthusiasm. i understand that we have a lot of work ahead of us and it is probably a lot well, this is the one. i will never say that the war brought any benefit and that thanks to this war something will change for the better in any case. it would be

too cynical, but in one way or another , on the eve of the war, kharkov had a lot of problems , the problem of the development of strategy problems problems with values, problems with declarations of these values, with their observance, and well, one way or another, it happened that this war started, and , well, now we simply do not have the right to leave these problems unsolved, because, well , we pay too high a price for what we continue we remain a ukrainian place where we continue to remain a part of the state of ukraine therefore we must prepare to be ready for work and as soon as there is an opportunity to work take up this job thank you see you see you in myrny kharkiv thank you

good evening for your attention news and this the release begins with operational information from the general staff during the day the enemy carried out 11 airstrikes and carried out 17 attacks from rocket salvo systems, in particular , they hit the civilian infrastructure of the city of kherson and along the entire front line in donetsk region, there is damage to residential civilian private and apartment buildings, unfortunately, there are casualties among of the civilian population , on the other hand, the enemy continues to suffer significant losses, the aviation forces of the defense forces of ukraine delivered four strikes on the areas of concentration of personnel and military the occupiers' technicians, according to a report from the general staff, in the horlivka area, the occupiers conducted an on-site