[000:00:00;00] and the number doubled from 1,200 to 2,000, but more than half of them are technical personnel , and i apologize for telling me. there is little time , but i want to ask a question about the possibility of a war in ukraine. it may affect the dnieper conflict. here is a discussion of what is possible in ukraine. yes, pridnestrovia is related to this, and this is how you see it, and it can destroy ukraine. for a minute, you have a radical image. where they are located, they represent a danger only to themselves and may be partially a part of moldova, but to ukraine they represent a danger

. that russia is looking for a reason to organize some kind of provocation, kill a couple of dozen of its own, and then announce that it recognizes the independence of transnistria and can even annex it transnistria to russia and will announce that whoever will encroach on transnistria for a secret to russia, this is their only exit , and the threat only comes from this to us now. the situation is young, it is unfolding there once again. thank you for joining us, the minister of defense of moldova in 2015-2016 was in touch, and we will finish this year on this svoboda life, we will be back tomorrow

, subscribe to the radio freedom channel on youtube in order not to miss the issue. well, also subscribe to radio svoboda pages on social networks where it is convenient for you, we are on facebook telegram twitter viber instagram exactly where it is convenient for you and subscribe and also i urge you to like this broadcast. that way more people will see me my name is sashko shevchenko. thank you for watching until tomorrow. i feel chained to the chair. everything is starting to annoy me . there is no convenient time for pain, but there is a yellow cream dolgit cream. dolgit cream helps eliminate pain and has an anti-inflammatory effect. dolgits is the only yellow.

cream for pain in the joints and muscle spasms, anticonvulsant tablets for muscle relaxation and circulation , de-occupation, you can live without stopping, it is unsurpassed, the history of the liberated cities of ukraine are gone. let's see how our brothers helped us. one by two houses and the natsiks of the ukrainian people are here yes, we are all nationalists of the people here did they resist did the residents come here stopped and sent back and became heroes the novel was there and will always be ukraine about unbreakable cities of ukraine from the ukrainer project in the documentary cycle deoccupation that saturdays at 11:10 on espresso watch this week in the collaborators program the year of war where the most traitors lurked in ukraine i rotate in the ukrainian forces come this grass sasha

and what fate waiting for buyers whose hands are covered in the blood of ukrainians in february 2023, they destroyed their own, watch the program of collaborators with olena kononenko on the espresso tv channel on wednesday, march 1 at 4:45 p.m., congratulations, friends, i am vitaliy porticos, we continue our conversation within the framework of the pravda reconstruction project, which we demonstrate to us on our channel and on the television channel espresso and today, our interlocutor is writer and public figure serhiy zhadan. congratulations. hello serhii , how was your day on february 24. it was just a day at the border, you can say i was going to vinnytsia, we were supposed to have a concert in vinnytsia

with musicians, and they went earlier by train . and i went, they went by bus, and i went by train , and accordingly, at 5 in the morning outside kyiv , our manager woke me up and said that it had started war, but they said well, then we went back to kharkov and i stood at the station as a goat, they picked me up and we went to the east, and it was such a very strange feeling for us when you go and only military equipment goes from there from kyiv, from the dnipro, from kharkov long convoys of civilians, people are taking their families out, well, that is, practically. you saw it all in reverse, like a film that rewinds in the other direction and the other direction, and what was kharkiv like when you saw it, well, kharkiv was chaotic. that is, we the next day with colleagues with whom we worked, volodymyr and i immediately went to the unit that we supported, they were located in the city and thousands of people were leaving from kharkov at the stations, there was a crowd of foreign students trying

to get out of the city, this was ours, there was such an anteater who entered the gas and just the ants were trying to save each other, they climbed out, ran away, and in the first days there was a simple industry in the city, we people were generally aware of what was happening. i think the khanate, you understand the visual chaos. i think that everyone was just aware of what was happening. that's why they tried to get families out faster, get children out, get older people out in order to get settled in new circumstances, that is, in this external chaos, there was just an internal logic, because i think people immediately determined what to do, either to stay or to leave , if to stay, then what to do. i think that somewhere subconsciously in kharkiv , i was ready for this. and this is a very interesting moment, but a subconscious moment, because i never spoke about it to my kyiv friends there. although i understand that a great attack has on the artist the capture of kyiv, that is, it is impossible to do without kyiv. and that kyiv could be under such an attack, at least under a missile attack, we did not really imagine the troops from the belarusian side, in general , it became realistically possible only there after

2020, but my kharkiv acquaintances always said that kharkiv was simply on the front line here is how far the people who lived here are located, it was always so perfect, measured, mr. illusion, a certain relaxation because the war was going on in the 13th year, and kharkiv is returned that it is 40 km from the border with the potential with an enemy and with an aggressor with a potential aggressor, anyway, it was a peaceful life here, as you say correctly, it was a young student city, where there were under 400,000 students, a lot of foreigners, which is a sign that people felt confident if the foreigners stayed here, everything was fine but i think that this means that behind this laxity there was still an understanding that if it starts, it will start with us because we are really the closest to the outpost . yes, we are actually the frontier, right here behind the garden , russia begins, and i think that well, yes otherwise, the city was ready for this war, it was ready for attempts. i think the russians were not

ready for what we are ready for, because when they came here, for them , it was supposed to be an easy walk. firstly, i think they were convinced that they would be greeted here with flowers. and secondly, they were convinced that the city was not protected. friends from the border villages there, right on the border, told me that when the russian colonies entered there, our border guards immediately left. but we did not fight. how there were no such small ones, and the russian officers just over our attack completely relaxed, calmed down the local population and said, wait, we are now quickly passing by the district kharkiv, we will not enter , we will replace you with the authorities in kyiv, and you will already be like us, it was absolutely not are convinced that this will not be a war, that it will all end quickly . yes, special operations. of the great war, they went to their position in the houses, they entertained the local population from there, they took positions in the outermost row

of houses, and they say how they understand what is happening, because he says the russians are starting a column, we will destroy it. he says that we have already destroyed three columns, that is, they were completely unprepared, they did not understand what to do, how to fight him. they thought that they would simply enter the city in a column and take flowers from the hands of the grateful local population. well, i did not i know they will change the flag above the city council and the regional council. well, they will go on to kyiv. apparently, this is how he saw it all, but if we talk about how the mentality of the east has changed during this year, it is actually important because we perfectly understand what is happening here. i think that it is precisely in slobozhanshchyna that such urban slobozhanshchyna, this relationship with russia was of a completely different quality than even somewhere in the south in odesa, because odesa lived a myth about russia, it is

actually very far from russia geographically, and kharkiv lived a diffusion with russia, at least with this belohorodka russia, you know, it seems to me that kharkiv's connection with russia is a little exaggerated, remember how our president said that kharkiv is a threatened city precisely because there is a very strong connection, you know , family. i think it's a little exaggerated . and in this, too, there is a certain kind of operation that was big and we were dissolved by certain political forces. that is, everyone is used to the fact that kharkiv is almost a russian city , they are used to talking about it in russia and, for example, unfortunately in ukraine, they are also used to saying it in reality but the situation of such a real breakdown really showed that kharkiv has always been a ukrainian city, it's just that it's ukrainian , that's why it might not have been so decorative , it might have been subdued somewhere. how many showed themselves, that is, they became active, it was always there. it was a ukrainian

city, in fact, i always talked about it, we didn't just not listen, that is, not everyone listened, because you know , well, right here, even how to say correctly , the indicator is not how many we have now ukrainian signs and how do we change the toponymy, because well, these are rather formal things, these things are related, they were called identifying how many of us, making decisions of the cabinet, will be on bandera street and consider him nationalists, without a doubt. so , what matters more here is how people started to defend the place, since kharkiv citizens went as volunteers, how many kharkiv women went to volunteer, and this means that these are the people who until february 24, 4, on a large scale forcibly joined some political processes , that is, these are the people who were not, for example, on the maidans of the 14th year are those people, many of them were voters, for example, of the late kernes, but when the war began, it was clearly obvious to them that they had to go and defend their city and their country, so this is an important moment, but still, these people defended the city

as a place of residence or the state as a value or one at the same time, i think that it did not contradict the other. because here you understand right away that very often it works in this war, as apparently in any war, a personal moment works , so you can keep your distance until the last try to be impartial and neutral, but when a projectile flies into your house, well, it already starts to affect you and you already start to consider it your business according to our revenge, it becomes something very personal for you and not just something decorative at the level of patriotism. i think that this patriotism is local he he he actually we got used to him as it seems to me to somehow correlate and correlate with separatism that if you love your city well, you should love the country first of all and in fact i think that this is nothing bad there is nothing wrong with low patriotism in odesa, and there is nothing wrong with the fact that people in donbas love cities, eh. well, it’s fine if they are, if it seems to me in many cases, in most cases, it’s not against things , national clothes, regional patriotism

, part of the national territorial, but it happens that patriotism is the antithesis of state tax, we have always been afraid of this, i think that it was such an internal island, especially after the events of 14th year. well, yes, i think you understand there again after all, the events of the 14th year there was a certain distortion of all this, because when some of our ukrainian political figures or our journalist colleagues shifted the blame for all these events to the population of donetsk and luhansk regions, well , this did not seem quite correct to me. so, you understand well, it is very easy to say that it is they who are to blame because girkin went to slavyansk , well, the state was unable to defend itself against different views, yes, and those who are against , again, well, understanding that, well, donetsk, luhansk region are specific regions, there are specific attitudes there have always been, but again, in my understanding, in my vision, they have always been ukrainian regions, and they will remember the many thousands of rallies in support of ukraine on the streets

of donetska luhansk. smaller yes yes obviously yes this is always another example of the political passivity of the population ready to support mentally certain ideas i think that in russia if you want to voluntarily gather the supporters of vladimir putin there are not many of them either will come out on the streets, this is what is called. we remember this exact definition , which was once given by the russian historian yuri afanasyeva from the tribune, the riding of people's deputies of the soviet union , the aggressively obedient majority, well, i guess that's how we can get rid of it, that is, do you people automatically support the winners, do you will they still become adherents of other values, this is a question that i ask myself , and you understand the restructuring, but in kharkiv , the situation was such that kharkiv well

, i obviously saw the same thing in the fourth year and in the 14th year, he was quite passive, and this was noticeable, and this caused some complaints and criticism, because we really had our maidan, which was attended by a rather small number of people, then the anti-mada maidan appeared, which was attended by a lot fewer people. that is, this is in relation to the total number of residents of kharkiv. i don't know how representative it was, but remember on february 23, 2014, when there was an attempt to hold a congress of deputies of various councils here, and when yanukovych was fleeing from here when it appeared a real threat, a threat to the city, a threat to the loss of statehood, tens of thousands of kharkiv residents took to the streets, just tens, where were these people for three months? why didn't they come out to support the maidan? well, that's a different question, but when the real threat came, they came out in the same way after february 24, when did they appear? the real threat of losing their city and their country is simply that thousands of kharkiv residents immediately went to sign up as volunteers, immediately went to the military commissariats

, took up weapons, went to the gates, well, in any case, it seems to me that even people who imagined russia as such an enemy. how evil, they did not imagine what she was ready to do, shoot residential neighborhoods, just shoot residential neighborhoods , otherwise, i made programs with him for the russian service of radio liberty and well, i think that it will be as it always happens with the mayor , even a military one cities, the program is about specific things, and he was aware, i think , with what kind of audience he communicates, and this program came out as a cry of the soul. that is, it was clear that such a moral thing happened to a person. shock, i would say listen, well, i'll tell you again, uh, without expressing uh, uh, political . but igor and i have seen sotopolis people how many times this year . well, he didn't talk about the communal economy, he talked about some things, namely, valuable things about his

worries about things and related to analytical and so on, this is actually very significant that our regional politicians are asking themselves these questions, again, i understand that the issue of power and the issue of attitude to the kharkiv government is a pressing issue for many people in kharkiv different he will speak, there are supporters, there are opponents, but we did not even talk about the government, we held a question for me, it was very telling, you know, that, well , when we spoke with him several times, he talked about exactly these things, and he will say well, after all, if we talk about the space of civilization , we say that kharkiv is a ukrainian city, it's true, but in any case, this civilization space and media space is still in the east, but in these areas it is one way or another. well, it is always connected with moscow

, maybe more than in kyiv. poltava just from this is the reason that all this is closer, which i am not talking about relatives, i am talking about television, about a certain perception of information content about people from youtube, language, closer understanding of problems , closer, er, the arrival of people from belgorod who come there to shopping centers is closer , that is, this proximity is everything it still existed, you can say that we said goodbye to her today and listen, again, i understand all my subjectivity in the subjectivity of my view because well, from the beginning, when i came here as a schoolboy, i communicated with ukrainian circles. that is, this political circles scientific, literary and cultural circles of kharkiv and that's why i have a slightly different vision of kharkiv, but even if you try to speak more objectively , you know people like that about people in particular, you know again well, what determines the mood of the city well , you understand that that someone was engaged in smuggling or trade with belgorod, this does not indicate the er, let's say mandatory russophile sympathy, if

romania was on that side, but they would go to romania to engage in smuggling, that is, well, this is the specifics of any border region, of course, but when did you want people to go to romania? they, relatively speaking, the civilized world of romania was not aggressive towards people . i just want to say something else, how to define, let's say , the pro-russian sentiments or pro-russian sympathies of this or that city. and those who are the so-called political elites, yes, this is such a funny definition, but it is somewhere in us a disturbance of the moral board of the chevelovs , in particular. to defend, let's say, certain political forces or certain political personnel, i have always spoken about such people, and still, despite their specificity, despite their certain discipline of distancing themselves from kyiv, it's still not separatists, even parties, it was their own specific visa, their own vision of trying to defend their interests economic or political and struggle, cynical struggle , the most cynical struggle for its

electoral field, but to say that there was some attempt to open the city gate for russians, i did not see it, well, kharkiv never it was possible to accept, for example, sevastopol well, there was no such thing as this russian city, well, even the most odious of our leaders did not allow themselves such a thing. and what kind of city in ukraine, and except indeed sevastopol, which you are always in a special situation there, even the mayor has never been elected and they don't choose. by the way, which city can be considered a russian city in ukraine? it seems to me that, technically , odessa is safe in their trapezoid, well , the russians simply considered it their colony , even during the time of independence, it was difficult for them to reach well, after all, odessans did not think so, they considered odessans in one word, again, even if they did not consider themselves part of the russian political space or the state, it’s just cultural and linguistic

, let’s face it, all these jokes and all these endless tours of russian artists, well, they did this is really some kind of active russian language. i say this with great sympathy for odessa . i love this place very much and i am not saying that there are anti-ukrainian names, but what they tried to interpret from odessa as a certain symbol of russia's presence in the south seems to me to be what he doesn't know. it seems to me that odessa has always been considered a city like marseille, but marseille is a french city, obviously if you don't come, you see completely different people , a completely different country. is this a port specific to any, yes, any port city, but come on it is obvious to me because i have seen it, i have seen how russia is simply trying to implement and install its cultural model there, that there is no ukraine , there cannot be any ukraine in odessa, odessa is a city of russian culture, even in russian liberals, i don't want to name the last name, but until the end, even during the time after the 14th year, until the end, they said no , well, wait

, of course, we support the ukrainian state . the russian enemy and the city of russian culture zhabotinsky said 120 years ago that odesa is a city surrounded by ukrainians and that a ukrainian will come somewhere with signs in his own language and culture that the ideologues of the russian world had already read batinsky but not so it was visible even then, it was started, and listen to the russian empire. well, like the ukrainian language for me, odesa was once again a ukrainian city, and despite what you know there, in the 90s, when ukrainian circles felt like they were in a certain ghetto, so only in kharkiv by the way, but this is going back 7 minutes of our conversation, when we were talking about how our cities are interpreted , it seems to me that kharkiv was interpreted as a russian city to a much lesser extent than here. this concept of the first capital is the ukrainian ssr. well, it’s a silence for a silence, but it’s only the main thing. okay , we have capitals, but we were the first capital, and we had

such a certain fate in our pockets. well, i was even talking about something else. i was talking about that. that russia could really carry out cultural expansion in odesa, of course an actor or a writer could come there, and the most important thing is that a russian writer of odesa origin could come safely , although again, you will never say that the culture of mykhailo zhvanetska is like that russian culture as the culture of a native of bryansk or something. it is difficult to call everything russian culture. soviet culture, yes. let's turn away. listen, anti -soviet, which means the same thing, actually, but in any case, i probably meant something else , just to be closer to closer to the other. of the world, and that is, it is also like that to a certain extent. if you want artificiality, the border could have been moved in one direction by the bolsheviks. the city of bilhorod was now the regional center of the belgorod region of ukraine or a part

of the kharkiv region, and it could have been moved in the other direction. yes and kharkiv could be part of the region, of course, no, but here it’s different vitalik, you actually understand the fact is that geographically we are closer mentally but not closer, and this is important, well, for me , this is obvious. to see some changes and some positivity where they are. listen, i have lived in the east all my life. for me, the east has always been ukrainian , despite the fact that there has always been a certain presence and political and cultural influence of russia , anyway, i decided in the ukrainian environment for us, the russians were strangers, they were not enemies, enemies of course, because we are, i am a soviet child, they could be enemies, but they were strangers, they were different, we were ukrainians, they were russians, when you talked about these elites, they were never separatists i thought that it was obvious that no one was a separatist, i am not sure that i asked the question incorrectly because there were no separatists in odesa, such as whether there were people who were ready to simply work for moscow. i

think that this is not even a conviction. i think in kyiv, i don’t think so. it’s obvious that they are everywhere from uzhgorod to donetsk , and they don’t go anywhere, that is, they just might be hiding somewhere under the real information about them, but the mentality of the ukrainian ssr does not mean the separatist mentality is the mentality of a person who believes that ukraine can exist, using levin 's words, only in the union, well, this is medicine, it is non-metality, it is an examination - it is the mentality of a provincial or the mentality of a resident of such a dominion, then i would . you know why i said provincial - that is this very well fits the concept of shevelyov, who described the works in this chronology of the five kharkiv kharkiv and the fifth kharkiv, his understanding is the kharkiv of the future kharkiv, which actually got rid of its soviet russian provincial past when it ceases to consider itself

a part of this great e- e system, where there is a metropolis in moscow, st. petersburg. and here there are provincial towns that in one way or another belong to this great russia instead . well, you understand that the ukrainian political space is arranged in a completely different way and the state space, in principle, the concept of the concept of a province well, it sounds funny, well, odesa is a province well, how can it be in the context of ukraine, the russian empire, it’s hard to call a door even if it’s not odessa, even for donetsk , it’s not a province, and even the smallest regional cities are, again, completely arranged that a province is a russian concept, moscow , everything else is correct, but in germany, in munich or a faction that provincial cities and, in principle, in europe, in western europe, it is a monster, what is the concept of the concept of a province, but it is the last one it is not used recently because these are terms from the 20th century, if not from the 19th , well, even in europe, the term is for large turbines where there is an imperial center and there is a province, if

we say it, some kind of federation, yes, the stencil is dangerous yes yes and then we are in today's world well, the center of the world is where you want to build the center of the world, you can live in a village, have a computer and create revolutions in it, but this idea of ​​provincialism was instilled here artificially, that is, yes, and the concept of the first capital and the concepts of this connection with moscow, yes, it is definitely still a soviet concept after the 90s, they tried to extend it until today. well, i think that , by the way, the first capital was also perceived differently. i think that the people who live here thank you in this soviet myth on the first capital , they believed that this adds to kharkiv's sympathy from the center, let's say, and i came across in one of the polish jewish publications the memoirs of a writer, the elder brother of the nobel singer, who visited kharkiv when

it was the capital of the ukrainian ssr, and here he tells that he was traveling in a compartment with a soviet an officer from russia and this officer starts fighting, so they arrive at the station, then together they go somewhere to the center of the city. singer is a yiddish-speaking person who knows polish. well, he looks at the signs. where it says huts, where it says hairdresser - this is exactly the same as what he sees in warsaw is it in lviv? well, in lviv, and the russian officer is fighting. which kharkiv is kharkiv and which hairdresser ? well, that's right, but it's a play, it's life . i can't understand this russian. what does this russian lack? if nationalism is checked, he came to the soviet city. here, lord, but i feel like we will fence off the environment because it is written kharkiv well, because the soviets are completely artificial that the same

imperial chauvinism simply stood behind this removal, we are simply under a red flag, it is also clear what and all this is an attempt to reconcile the national idea with the idea and international it ended in the years 30-33-37 when in fact kharkiv was just a broken character, for example, like vinegar, a jar of pepsi when it is empty yes, when you twist it like that, this is actually how kharkiv was as of the 27th year when they took the capital from here, although this is also our arty, this is a myth, which in fact, you know, in fact, it is not so clear-cut on the one hand, well, for me, i am definitely not accepting or clear-cut any negative connotations of the term the first capital, because behind it is simply the defeat of the ukrainian people's republic, the defeat of ukrainian statehood and this quasi-quasi-independence of the ukrainian ssr, and on the other hand, well, it was some kind of desperate attempt , you know, to stand on a tightrope and try to combine internationalism and, relatively speaking

, nationalism, and to combine the soviet table ukrainian with this brilliant generation of artists, engineers, scientists and politicians of the 20s who tried to get used to it under the minotaur , but they didn't succeed. maybe it's the other way around, maybe it's just people, people who lost tried to take advantage of the situation they were in. staged to save at least something, this is how i apologize to the warsaw ghetto theater. you understand that the ghetto is already closed, everything is closed , but you still try to play and stage it. by the way , it is similar in reality. well, i don’t know. unr and it was a big compromise and it was an opportunity to simply speak or write or sing in ukrainian. but it is clear that this is, well , this is just a huge compromise and the concept of the concept of disaster is just a-a well , it is postponed a little, but for some, well, i am convinced that for whom it was sincere, that is,