[000:00:00;00] of nationalism, to unite the soviet table with the ukrainian one, that is the brilliant generation of artists, engineers, scientists and political figures of the 20s who tried to get used to the side and nature, they didn't succeed. or maybe it's the other way around, maybe it's just people , people who lost, they tried to take advantage of this situation that they were put in to save at least something, this is how i apologize to the warsaw ghetto theater. you understand that the ghetto is already closed, everything is closed, but you still try to play plays. of course it is, well, i don't know for it is obvious to someone, it is obvious to someone the defeat of the ukrainian people's republic and it was a big compromise and it was an opportunity to simply continue to speak or write or sing in ukrainian . for someone, well, i am convinced that for someone it was sincere, that is

, this infatuation with the leftist idea, infatuation with the bolsheviks, infatuation with the soviet government, it is quite possible that it was sincere for this generation , which means which which did not fight is possible or which they fought, but on the side of the reds, because there were many of them, that’s right. someone went from the ranks of inequality to the ranks of the red writers, and someone from the ranks of the soviet government , and someone from the soviet army. from the oleksian championship, the beginning is past the house and i think it was already a reconstruction and he told me that he once walked here with uh, wow, they went to the plenum of the central committee, the desk at the plenum is the party, yes, and that you discussed melenchuk’s question, and here gonchar is telling me he told me olesya you you won't live to see me, but where do i live? but you will definitely live to the moment when our flag flies here, you can't believe that. well, gonchar didn't

look like a person who invents something, besides , he didn't really like these people, as we can see about diary well, yes, i think that it was so, well, it was just a wish , he could say everything about it, and it could be intellectual provocations, also from the side. it is desirable , but on the other hand, the wishes were the son of a manor woman. listen, and it is desirable, too, you know that in principle, it is like a person a metaphor like a person the emblem of the entire ukrainian soviet culture. that is, you can now take the position of such a radical and say that all this means a venal generation that betrayed the ukrainian ideal, that sent and failed, and so on . imagine what would happen if there really was a break in the ties between generations in our ukrainian culture, and such people can fully imagine if let's say so completely imagine, for example, and let's say that the soviet government, the kremlin authorities

simply start a policy of russification significantly tougher and much earlier and let's say simply why do you need ukrainian soviet literature let there be only soviet literature and why do you need this ukrainian encyclopedia which mykola platonovych was engaged in there is a beautiful encyclopedia in moscow there we did everything for you what is the purpose of the institute of literature what is the shevchenko museum for what is the purpose of you in general, the national quality of things, if we have an internationalist and that 's all. in russia, what the bolsheviks could not do to the people of the soviet union is happening to the people of russia, because they were afraid, they saw the national movement and they understood that this is something that one way or another it grows, that is, if you, if you do not pluck it in time, if you do not subjugate it, then it will grow because these are such things that they cannot be stimulated , they cannot be artificially created, well, this is something at the level of mentality, at the level of identity, well , it always breaks through sooner or later, but on

the other hand, norwegians really always suffer with that, i would say knut hamson's complex, i was in norway at the moment when they seem to me to be the first time, or the postage stamp aga was issued, or some series was issued, e-e discs of films on e works, that is, some anniversary things , it was some big anniversary and the first time after the second world war, they allowed themselves such a street no, but on the other hand , just to say that here is a great writer , well, again, i don’t even know if the norwegian people would be as we knew them without knotogamson, because it is almost like shevchenko for of ukrainians, and on the other hand, a man is a gypsy and wrote an obituary tour. what to do with this, this is a question of splitting the soul. it seems to me that ukrainians really want a situation with this soviet poets, and this should be told to ourselves and writers and to understand how to

live with it. listen it seems to me no, that is, a little different. well, these are fundamentally different things, because we were a colony, we were occupied. that is, it can of course be called what we said, too . well, you understand. i think that gampson had the opportunity, i don't know where to go even such as brecht, of course, if he was not a supporter in terms of views. and we are also talking about people who were conscious supporters, respectively, in relation to the same bazan or in relation to the same saussure or in relation to the fact that you have been committed, how can we now read the consciousness of their commitment to the soviet government and in principle, communism will also prove and it seems that we have so much everything is broken , everything is so ambiguous, what can we do now to make such simplified, some kind of simplifying assessments , well, to be honest, this is not quite correct, it means being smart in hindsight well, i i'm just looking for exactly this opportunity, this interaction, because i believe that the people cannot abandon their own culture if its representatives, say, acted in a contradictory way. that's right

, but this contradiction is also the same. that this is a study by meys, where he tried to show this whole project of soviet ukraine from the point of view of the actual people who created it at the national level, not from the point of view of moscow and the colonizers who came here and brought here troops they hired people who started working for them, and from the point of view of people who somehow tried to see the meaning in this, in the construction of socialist ukraine, with a trial attempt to defend some national interests , and here everything becomes much more paradoxical and much more ambiguous, let's say the figure of skrypnyk here we have a monument to a violinist and someone says that everything is clearly a soviet figure who needs to be decommunized and so on. information from the other side, and the very phenomenon of ukrainization, and the very phenomenon

of cultural development, which to a large extent was lobbied and supported by the fiddler , then people who have no monuments and such people can play an even greater role as christians. rakovsky was the first head of the soviet ukraine he came to kyiv for negotiations with the government from skoropadskyi and said, why not the main language in етом языке разговоряться етого языка нет , and a couple of years later he was the person who convinced vladimir lenin that ukraine has to be a sovereign republic of the soviet union and was in favor of ukrainization well, as an activist, of course, you have to do a little with this to justify , say, the comintern leaders or the leaders of the soviet government in order to show how interesting this process is, but it should be studied, in fact, it seems that in order to agree that more communism it can be built in the ukrainian language, you just have to not be a chauvinist, that's the problem , the soviet union was built later , it's not non-internationalism that became warmongers, it's just

the russians that the minister is clean, even petrovskyi well, i said 10 minutes ago that in fact the soviet system is what is behind the red scenes, of course, the imperial chauvinistic model, that is , the same thing. ukraine, let's say, in which people realized the value of their national cultural achievements, as far as it is possible to imagine ukraine in general, what kind of people look specifically at kyiv and do not feel like provincials. it seems to me now that something something like this happens. it seems to me that just well, first of all, this is really me, i see it, there is a big demand for some cultural values ​​on their own, historical narratives on their own well, in principle, on their own values, that is, people are trying to understand and what did we have here

what i don't know and what i managed to miss and what i didn't read what i didn't hear what i didn't see and it's like this you know such a uh-uh licknap at the level of the whole society it's very interesting i don't know what will come of it but it's very it is interesting and this is obviously not enough for the construction of some new cultural model, it is obvious that it will not be enough, it is obvious that ukraine is bigger and here if we really want to build some kind of harmonious model. yes, we have to understand, we have to know, we have to take into account the historical experience that we have, it's terrible not ambiguous and not terribly. but the austro-hungarian experience and the polish experience and some other things are also so broken because , well, here we talked about the fact that the russians imposed on us the opinion that odessa without russian culture is not odessa what is she it is impossible, he formulated another thing that, for me, ukrainian culture is without the presence of, for example, a peasant, bruno schultz, joseph

rota, or konrad. well, it is also not quite a complete culture , that is. in the school curriculum, and how passionate we are about our history and our culture, ukrainians already have this significantly. i don't know. agree, you don't agree. this is a big flaw. we are very easy on ourselves. but you want to take malevich and take away, do you want bohomazov take away, take away his expert, do you want to take away, take away i'm not talking about the textbook case with gogol, do you want to take it away, we don't need our gogol for 100 years and this only applies to a thousand - me and why do we have to tell them if it's all our component the question is in what form it should be combined, that's definitely why he actually consciously or unconsciously named the writer as they wrote in polish, german , yes, and not in this territory they wrote in russian no less, even more well,

you are gogol, then yes, but there are the same russian writers who lived here, like conrad, as a british-polish, well, you don’t know that poles are generally respected as polish, british, but i don’t know, i won’t even talk about bulgakov’s classic example, but there are a lot of such people. and where do we put them? viktor is not handsome, is it the writer boris or our grandmother kharkiv kharkiv kharkiv symbol, you know what a person who was very important for democratic kharkiv khatanov is what? well, this is the problem. i am not talking about what we we must have to include all russian-speaking writers or russian writers in ukrainian and literary i am not about this i am about the fact that one way or another we have to take into account that our cultural process is a-and it cannot be reduced to this , oh, the ukrainian ato, well, this is wrong, this, this, this, this a huge impoverishment of what we have because here it is very easy to significantly reduce everything to the manipulation of the name, for example, bulgakov well, i was not there either, but for the gym i want in kyiv, which is located on yamska street and this is the

same street on which the action took place when kuprin's novel, it wasn't in russia, it was in kyiv, i understand. yes, but for me it is outside the ukrainian cultural context . i always think that is, when i lived in moscow in javanese. i realized that it would not be in moscow at all, well, i'm rather talking about theatrical circles, artistic circles, in which this conversation is traditionally carried out , because it's very easy here. ah, in fact, it already is, well, the cultural process is already much broader than just a-a russian-language or ukrainian-language literature , of course, i think that this is a mutual perception . none of us perceives mickiewicz, chopin and simkevych as part of russian society, often they were exposed to russian, there were russian passports, yes, yes well, plus, you also understand. you mentioned mickiewicz. remember the uh-uh

jealousy about mickiewicz between lithuania and poland, this is also where there is a normal attitude towards one's heritage, where there is no repulsion. and i am probably the opposite of this passionate absorption, that is, we appropriate to ourselves what has a relationship with us, what worked, decide what did not work against us. let's say it like this. well, this is, by the way, already a formula that we worked, that they work for us, because well, if bulgakov, er, was an undisguised or poorly hidden ukrainophobe it is obviously ridiculous and harmful to try to insert him into this economy, so obviously he will not be a locally very important writer for kyiv , and because this myth of andriyivsky zvoz is undoubtedly by and large, you understand that let's say this myth, how pro-ukrainian is it, how harmful or not harmful to us why why not replace it with a ukrainian myth, which i think can be quite easily formulated because it is kyiv, a ukrainian city, and why should we use someone else's

narratives. i'm not saying what we have. i'm saying what we've always done. you understand. i'm talking about how it's done in our country. well, here we go, even for some of those who were born and grew up in kyiv, who love their city and love their country. this is ukraine anyway often they look at certain objects through the lens of the post-soviet post-russian, consecutively persian, because it was created that way because of upbringing, because of reading , because of school, because of security school , because of education. talked about education, it is always a question of what i think that if they are not just , if there was no desire, yes, bazhana is the current sausyura. looked like i even know because i saw soviet schools in kazakhstan belarus no longer had a kazakh or belarusian teacher there there was much less one in the belarusian language and literature speaks about the language literature there was not this clear desire not just to interest

but to clearly tell how did one of the my ukrainian language teacher at school if you if you don't, you won't be able to pass this subject, you won't go anywhere else well, i'm with you it was a defense i'm with you i don't just agree with you i absolutely agree because well, look, we in fact, since the 14th year, my friends and i have been doing a lot of volunteering to help, namely, the education system in donetsk region, luhansk region and here in kharkiv region, we cooperated with dozens of boarding schools, lyceums, universities , in particular, you mentioned donetsk national university in the conversation today and well , everything is obvious here there was that where the teachers are interested in the fact that their children grow up to be talented, self-sufficient, realized ukrainian ukrainian children, and they had opportunities and they gave an incredible result. i remember, for example, well i definitely remember it often well, i don't often remember it regularly, from time to time i remember now we are fighting for crime greminium was

a fantastic lyceum there were incredible children who participated in some programs of the academy of sciences who constantly went to some olympiads who constantly wrote works there and you were in kremennaya, it’s a small town, it’s like that, there’s even a village, but there’s this lyceum and it’s obvious because there were incredible teachers there who, first of all, loved their work , secondly, their children, and thirdly, they had all this somehow agreed and was very loud in their attitude towards the country , well, this is what you are talking about non-provincialism, that is, it turns out that such a tool can exist here , it is not necessary for it to be in kharkiv or in kyiv , so well, how in great britain somewhere cambridge scoreboard stand outside london and are the centers of civilization and it seems to me that we had such places. well, ostrog, yes, the term is indisputable and indisputable, well, you also understand in us, for example , in our country, all these new projects are educational, where they are a little autonomous, there are old universities, for example, our karazinsky which

to this day, it remains a certain symbol and a certain engine of the city, because a lot of things happened around it to a large extent. to the education system, yes, like those islands, such fortresses in their cities, but they are interesting , it is a completely different model of education, and a completely different philosophy of education, and it again gave results. tell me what you think ukraine after the end of hostilities, because we say after the victory, but the victory is not just over there , once they have finished, it will be rebuilt later. well, it is not simple social . will it be a guilty conscience? yes, i think there will be a large number of social problems, it is already visible, demographic , social, communication and in fact, in fact, it is no less frightening than the situation at the front now, but you know, this is my topic for a separate conversation, because um, a whole complex of huge problems, which are today, it is

appointed, it accumulates, it grows and with so far, no one is working on it at all, and here is the question: what can we really do about it, what can we do about it, is it work as a society? only when it interacts with the government , does it put pressure on the government or replace the state? well, i never considered it good. no, i don't think i'm replacing it . social claims and reacts in one way or another and then something positive will happen where the government takes the initiative, well, the state, i said the state, yes, it’s not exactly the government’s business , because the government can be a different state when it takes this initiative very often . it is not he gives himself advice because well, by and large, our state means that this is an old

soviet car, and even if this car was not pushed by society, this car did not go far, this does not mean that this car does not need to be modernized in relation to it can and must be modernized, but experience shows that the most interesting things happen in us where there is no interaction between society and an active society and the state. i simply always dream that the state was efficient so that people could clearly know that they paid taxes, definitely in the one who i didn't want to. and we all the time, and we are, by the way, by and large, the phenomenon associated with shevchenko created such a psychological people uprising, that's why ukrainians can stand up to defend themselves. skovorody is not a model, not kotlyarevsky's model, definitely this shevchenko's model, that is, to beat, to ring the bell, to raise the community in order to solve everything here in general and then return to work , well, listen to this, of course, that this is not the best thing, that it would be better to live in a calm, stable political state

system and not have a clear thing about war other problems, but we had to live at this time, and here we can either fold our hands and then they will solve our problems for us, and it is not at all necessary that our chicken will be obviously and not so effectively. well, the simple question is how capable ukrainians are this is the most important question right now, are we able to build an effective state? because the problem here is what, if it turns out that we are capable, conditionally, we can really be in europe, in the european union , but the statue of this periphery, which we really did not want to be. well, i will not call the country central europe, but i am also certain countries that simply got lost in all this, the organization and the united europe. they wanted , well, i think we are definitely not threatened by it. it seems to me that the ukrainians felt it, the drive for changes, the drive for reforms, again, i understand that many people laugh when they talk about ukrainian reforms, how can i not laugh, i actually watched with great interest what was happening in our country in 14th year

, it seemed to me, well, i looked at it with cautious optimism, that's why i think that we felt that we we cannot influence our country, we can influence the government, we can influence the local government in kyiv, because there is no particular difference, because again , this is a provincial complex. it seems to me that this is what ukrainians always go back, i.e. regardless of where you live in a small village or, say, in lviv, you can get on the train and go to the maidan in kyiv tomorrow and demand from the authorities the changes you need. well , it seems to me. is of real importance, and not just in the repair of sewers, but in the unification of communities where mayors have proven to be effective and ready , the world looks completely different than where local government is possible. well, listen, and agree or disagree. and what is this decentralization reform itself? well, she has been very important in recent years. that is, she immediately began to change the rules of the game. i think it is that the politicians in kyiv

did not have time to notice this . it turned out to be a surprise for them. they acted according to this model in kuchnivskyi of yanukovych ukraine, where i am the center. but there is this periphery that we are talking about, and in ukraine it has already stopped working, and it seems to me that if the war had not been so big, there would have been very i won't tell you about the interesting processes in the regions in the province because we agreed not to use the word for the region and it can be considered that in this way ukraine is already insured against the vozdyk-type regime because after the war the regime is a heavy-type regime for a long time but i think i think so, definitely more than that well, it seems to me again remember history, usually the government that wins the war and we are still far from winning this one, but if we believe in our victory we believe in the victory of ukraine and again we remember that history shows that the government that wins the war very quickly is losing its popularity and if you are on a horse today if you are today a hero if you are on the covers of all magazines today

i don't want to name your name but we understand that if you are the leader of the free world and a country that is fighting it absolutely does not mean that a year after the end of the war you will remain on these same covers, or if you learn to solve other problems . it seems to me that you are the same with them, no matter how perfect you are, no matter how effective you are. anyway, one way or another, change, change of atmosphere, change of the circumstances of the end of the war. if so, her image is the image of her problems at that time. well, experience shows that all the winners quickly lost popularity . we are definitely not waiting for the stalinism of the later years and we are definitely not waiting for a tragedy in this, there is no doubt that the people who return from the front will be participants in the apolitical process and how

effective it will be, how much if society he will say, he fought, let him solve our problems . today, we are certain. to be honest, talking with our troops from well, it is also obvious that i see that the military is very different, but ours is like that, sometimes they talk about the armed forces of ukraine. in general, there are people who protect e- and about the volunteers and about the mobilized as a certain whole, which is something so homogeneous in fact. it is the same environment very immediately, they are very different there. someone left deliberately. someone has their own political views . someone left. as he couldn't help but pick up a weapon, but he doesn't even know the name of the president there, it's confusing, so i think it's unlikely that these people will be returned . it 's unlikely that they will. politics, yes, someone will not go there at all, it will be their life, that is, ukraine will be a state like israel, and in order for you to make a political career, you still have to have epaulettes in the past, i think no, this will not happen in us, i

think not there will be a plus to the same, well, you do you understand that the ukrainian army is ukrainian troops - this is a fairly accurate growth of ukrainian society, so obvious. well, how can i read a poem about them like this for any of these countries ? the army is a profession, a profession. the army is a little different . well, even more so, it is being formed in under such conditions of fire directly yes, when people just ran from there with some kind of bags or with hunting rifles to the checkpoints and only there they already got normal weapons and normal normal uniforms that is why we are a little different well and the last time you look at the street kharkiv, you are an optimist. do you feel realistic, let's say yes, i am realistic. i understand that kharkov. well, you understand because he is this realism, he is not pessimistic and he is not involved in despair, he is involved in enthusiasm. i understand that we have a lot of work ahead of us and this is probably very good. this is that day. i will never say that the war brought any benefit and that thanks to this war, something will change for the worse. no way. it would be too cynical, but, uh

, there was a lot in kharkiv anyway on the eve of the war problems, problems of development, problems of strategies, problems with values, problems with declarations of these values, with compliance with them, and well, one way or another, it happened that this war started, and well, now we simply do not have the right to leave these problems without a solution, because, well, the price is too high we pay for the fact that we remain a ukrainian city for the fact that we continue to remain with part of the state of ukraine , therefore, we must prepare to be ready for work and as soon as there is an opportunity to work

, take up this job. thank you for your attention to meetings see you in myrny kharkiv thank you cinema television sports music education free people have a choice choose what you want on megogo so that ukrainians don't think about whatever they talk about the first place still comes out war war and our victory 7 days a week from monday to sunday to all different spheres of human activity sports culture politics eight presenters espresso journalists experts opinion leaders in real time about

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every day. one by one, two houses were burned, and the natsiks of the ukrainian people are here. that's how we are. here are all the nationalists of the people who resisted, the residents came here, stopped and sent back and became heroes of roman bu and ukraine from the uk project in the documentary cycle de-occupation that on saturdays at 11:10 on espresso watch this week in the program judicial control with tetyana shustrova competition to the higher kovaliv commissions of judges as friends and relatives help to hide the property of candidates whose relatives will not be checked and the superpower of the odessa judge how to make hundreds of decisions while on a business trip, i don't even know what explain, on thursday, march 2, at 4:40 p.m., watch the judicial control program

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