[000:00:00;00] a student city where there were under 400,000 students, a lot of foreigners, which is a sign that people felt confident if foreigners stayed here, but i think that this means that behind this relaxation was the understanding that if it starts, it will start from us, because we are really the closest to the outpost. yes, we are actually the frontier, right here behind the garden, russia begins, and i think that well, one way or another, the city was ready for this war, it was ready for sports, i think the russians were not ready for what we are ready for because when they came here they are for them, it is. well, it was supposed to be such an easy walk, they think that they are entering a russian place at all. well , firstly, they were, i think, convinced that they would be greeted with flowers here. forces right there on the border, that when the russian columns entered there, our border guards immediately left there and fought . there were no such small battles, and the russian officers just above ours, in such a complete state

of relaxation, calmed down the place. they played frantically wait, we are now passing kharkiv quickly on the district road, we will not go to kyiv, we will replace you with power and you will live as we do . they were absolutely convinced that this would not be a war, that it would end in a quick year . yes, special operations. the northern peasants, that's actually where the biggest battles were in the first days. and we came to them on the second, third day of the great war. we went to their position. they were there in the houses. they entertained the local population from there. they took positions in the extreme row. house and they are saying how they understand what is happening because i am the russians are setting up a column, we are destroying it. not too soon , they are setting up the next column, we are also destroying it . they say that we have already destroyed three columns, that is, they were absolutely not ready, they did not understand what to do as he to fight. they thought that they would simply drive into the city in a column, take flowers from the hands of the local grateful population . well, i don't know, they would change the flag above the city council and the regional council . well, they would go on and on. that's probably how he

saw it all, but if we talk about it this year how the mentality of the east has changed, this is important because we perfectly understand what is happening here. i think that it is precisely in the slobozhanshchyna, and such urban slobozhanshchyna, that this relationship with russia was of a completely different quality than even somewhere in the south in odesa, because odesa lived a myth about russia, it is actually very far from russia geographically, and kharkiv lived a diffusion with russia. at least with this belograd russia, you know, it seems to me that kharkiv's connection with russia is a little exaggerated, so remember how our president said that kharkiv is an endangered city precisely because there is a very strong connection, you know, family. it seems to me that this is a little exaggerated, and there is also a certain kind of operation in this, which was carried out by political forces. everyone

is used to the fact that kharkiv is almost a russian city. in russia and, for example, unfortunately in ukraine, the president is used to saying , in fact, this is the situation of such a real breach, they actually showed that kharkiv has always been a ukrainian city, just take the ukrainian from it. well, maybe it was not so she was decorative. maybe she was subdued somewhere. but in this situation, she was not born like that, because they revealed themselves , well, that is, they were not activated. they were always . it was a ukrainian city. i actually always talked about it. we didn’t just listen, not everyone listened . because you know, right here, even how to say it correctly, the indicator is not how many ukrainian signs we have now and how we change toponymy, because, well, these are rather formal things, these things are related, they called it detection, how much we accept of the decisions of the cabinet will live on bandera street and consider him a nationalist without a doubt. so here it means more and how people began to defend the city

. how many kharkiv men volunteered. to some extent forcibly joined some political processes . that is, these are the people who were not there, for example, on the maidan of the 14th year, these are the people, many of them were voters, for example, of the late kernes , but when the war started, for them, well, it was it is clearly obvious that one must go to defend one's city and one's country, so this is an important point, but still, these people defended the city as a place of residence or the state as a value, or at the same time, i think that this did not contradict the other because here you understand right away very often it works in this war, as probably in any war, a personal moment works , here you can keep your distance until the end , try to be impartial and neutral , but when a projectile flies into your house, well, it already starts to affect you and you already

you begin to consider it your business, according to our revenge, it becomes something very personal for you and not just something decorative at the level of patriotism. i think that patriotism is local, it is it, you know, we are used to it, as it seems to me to somehow relate and correlate with separatism, what if you love your city well, you should love the country first of all, and in fact, i think that there is nothing wrong with low patriotism in odessa, and there is nothing wrong with the fact that people in donbas love their cities well, it's great if they are, if it seems to me that in many cases, in most cases, it's not against things. there was such an internal island, especially after the events of 14th year. well, yes, i think you understand the events of 14th year. again, there was a certain distortion in the tractor of all this because when some of our ukrainian political figures or from our journalist colleagues and shifted the blame to the driver in russia. if you want

to voluntarily gather the supporters of vladimir putin, there will not be many of them on the streets, this is what is called. the assembly of people's deputies of the soviet union is an aggressively obedient majority, well, apparently , this is how we can get rid of it, i.e. do those people automatically support the victor or vo, or will they become supporters of other values ​​after all, this is a question that must be taken care of of the city and their country well, thousands of kharkiv residents immediately went to sign up as volunteers, immediately went to the military commissariat, took up arms, went flying, well , in any case, it seems to me that even people who imagined russia as such an enemy, how evil they were, did not imagine what it was i am ready to shoot up residential neighborhoods, just shoot up a neighborhood , i didn’t call it any other way, i made programs with him for the russian service, the robot, and well, i think it will be

like it always happens with the mayor of even a military city , a program about specific things, and he realized, i think, what kind of audience he communicates with and this program came out cry of the soul that is, it was clear that such a moral thing happened to a person . expressing himself in a political and purely human way. igor and i have seen how many times this year. well, he didn't talk about the communal economy. well , he talked about some things, that is, valuable things, about his experiences about things and related to identity, and so on. that's it actually well it is very significant that our regional politicians are asking themselves these questions. again, i am. i understand that the question of power and the question of the attitude towards the kharkiv government is an acute issue. many people in kharkiv will tell you different things. there are supporters, there are opponents, but we are

not even about the government. conducted for me, it was very telling. you know, when we talked with him several times, he talked about these things. and tell me. well, after all, if we talk about the space of civilization, then we say that kharkiv is a ukrainian city. this is true , but in any in this case, this is a civilizational one space and media space he is still in the east, but in these areas he is one way or another because he is always connected with moscow more than in kyiv. is it in poltava simply for this reason that all this is closer, which i do not say about relatives, i'm talking about television, about a certain perception of information content about people from youtube, language, closer understanding of problems , closer, e.

i said goodbye and listen again i understand all my subjectivity, the subjectivity of my view, because from the beginning, when i came here as a schoolboy , i communicated with ukrainian circles, that is , political circles, scientific, literary and cultural circles of kharkiv, and therefore i have a slightly different vision of kharkiv, but even if you try to speak more objectively, uh, you know people like that, about people in particular, you've known her for a long time, again. well, what determines the mood of the city? well, you understand that someone was engaged in smuggling or trade with the white race, this does not indicate about uh, let's say mandatory russophile sympathies, if romania were on that side, but they would go to romania to engage in smuggling, that is, well, this is the specifics of any border region, of course, but when people would go to romania, they would relatively speaking, the civilized world of romania was not aggressive in relation to its activities simply i want to tell you how to define, let's say, pro-russian sentiments or pro-russian sympathies of one or another city. well, rather , you know at the same level as

the policy declarations of the leaders and those who are the so -called political elites, yes, this is so funny definition, but we have it, the moral board of shevelov, in particular. but you know that you are now looking at it retrospectively and again without trying to defend, let's say , certain political forces or certain political personalities against whom i always spoke, and still, despite their specificity, despite their certain distance from kyiv anyway well, these were not separatists, not even parties, this was their own vision, their own vision of trying to defend their economic or political interests, and the struggle is a cynical struggle the most cynical struggle for one's electoral field, but to say that there was some attempt to open the gates of the city for russians, i did not see it, well, kharkiv could never be accepted, for example, sevastopol . well, there was no such thing as this russian city, well, even the most our obnoxious leaders did not allow themselves such a thing. and what city

in ukraine, except indeed sevastopol, which you are always in a special situation there, even the mayor has never been elected and is not elected . by the way, what city can be considered russian a city in ukraine, i think it’s like that well, odessa is definitely on their route, well, the russians simply considered it their colony even during independence, let me remind you that it’s just a complete cultural expansion and that it was difficult for them politically to get there. well, after all, they didn’t think that way about odessa they believed, in one word, they believed again, even if they did not consider themselves part of the russian political space, that the state is simply all cultural and linguistic, agree with all these jokes and all these endless tours of russian artists well, it was really done by some active russian maklaum. i say this with great sympathy for odessa. i love this city very much, and i am not saying that there is an anti-ukrainian mood, but the fact that odessa was tried to be interpreted as a certain symbol of russia's presence in the south seems to me to be obvious.

odessa was always considered to me to be a city like marseille, but marseille is the same french city, obviously if you don’t come, you see completely different people, a completely different faction . wait, well, for me, it is obvious that they are afraid, i have seen how russia is just trying to implement and install its cultural model there, that there is no ukraine, there cannot be any country in odessa, odessa is a city of russian culture, even in russian liberals, but i don’t want to name the last name, but even to the last during the period after the 14th year, until the last one, they said that no , wait, of course, we support the ukrainian state. the city of russian culture jabotinsky said 120 years ago that odessa is a city surrounded by ukrainians and a ukrainian will come somewhere with signs in their own language and culture that the ideologues of the russian world read jabotinsky, but that means it was visible even then it was started

and listen to the russian empire for for me, odesa has always been a ukrainian city, and despite what you know there , i remember the 90s, when circles felt like a certain ghetto in kharkiv. conversations so, when we talked about how our cities are interpreted, it seems to me that kharkiv was interpreted to a much lesser extent as a russian place, to a much lesser degree here. for silencing for silencing, but this is not the main thing, that ok, we have capitals, but we are the first capital, that is, there was such a certain fate in our pockets, well, i was just talking about something else , i was talking about the fact that russia could really expand culturally to odesa there of course, an actor or a writer could come there, and the most important thing is that a russian writer of odesa origin could come, without a doubt, although again, you will never

say that the culture of mykhailo zhvanetska is such a russian culture as the culture of a native of bryansk or something. it is difficult to call everything russian culturally soviet culture let's be honest, listen, well, anti-soviet, which means the same thing, but in any case, i probably meant something else , so that it's closer to the other world, and that is, it's also like that, to a certain extent if you want artificiality, the border could have been pushed in one direction by the bolsheviks. the city of bilhorod was now the regional center of the belgorod region of ukraine or part of the kharkiv region, and it could have been moved in the other direction . yes , kharkiv could have been part of the region. i am not mentally closer, and this is important for me. obviously, this is not because i am trying now, we are all trying, but to see what is not there, to see some changes and

some positives where they are. listen, i have lived in the east all my life, for me the east has always been ukrainians, despite the fact that there has always been a certain presence here, and the political and cultural influence of russia, anyway, i decided that in the ukrainian environment, for us, the russians were strangers, they were not enemies, enemies , of course, because we are, i am a soviet child, how could they not be enemies? but it was foreign, it was different, we were ukrainians, they were russians, when you talked about these elites who were never separatists, i thought that it was obvious that no one was a separatist, i am not sure that i asked the question incorrectly because there were no separatists in odesa, since were there people who were ready to simply work for moscow. but i believe that this is not even a conviction. this is an agency, it is absolutely in kyiv. well, i don’t think so. it is obvious that they are everywhere from uzhgorod to donetsk and they are not divided anywhere, that is, they just might be hiding there now somewhere under the real information about them, but the mentality of the ukrainian

ssr is not a separatist meteorite, it is the mentality of a person who believes that ukraine can exist, using levin's words, only in the union, well, in general, it is not a fortress it is the mentality of a provincial or the mentality of a resident of such a dominion, then i would. you know why i said provincial, this is exactly what fits the concept very well with shevelyov, who described and created this chronology of the five kharkiv kharkivs and the fifth kharkiv. he actually got rid of his soviet russian provincial past when he stopped considering himself a part of this great e-e system where there is a metropolis in moscow, st. petersburg, and there are provincial towns in these otherwise, they belong to this great russia instead. well, you understand that the ukrainian political space is arranged in a completely different way, and the state space in our country is basically the concept of the concept of a province. well, it sounds funny . well, odesa is a province. well, how can it be, in

the context of influence, the second place of the russian empire ? it's hard to call crazy, not even odesa, not even donetsk, it's not a province, and even the smallest regional cities, again, it's completely wrong that a province is a russian concept, moscow, and in germany it's munich. fracking is what provincial cities are, in principle , in europe, in western europe, the concept of the concept of province itself is a monster. well, it is the last new one, lately it is not used because these are terms from the 20th century, if not from the 19th , even in-, e dnieper terms for a large turbine where there is an imperial center and there is a province, let's say some federation, so now it's dangerous yes yes and we are in today's world well, the center of the world is where you want the whole center of the world to build, you can live in a village have a computer and create revolutions in it but

this idea of ​​provincialism was instilled here artificially, yes, yes, and the concept of the first capital and the concepts of this connection with moscow, yes, it is definitely a soviet concept. after the 90s , they tried to extend it until today. well, i think that by the way, the first capital - this was also perceived in different ways. i think that the people who live here and in this soviet myth in the first capital, they believed that this adds to kharkiv's sympathy from, say, the center, and i came across in one of the polish jewish publications the memoirs of the writer, singer the older brother of that nobelskaya who, after visiting kharkiv, er, give me a map, when he was the capital of the ukrainian ssr, and here he tells that he is traveling in a compartment with er, a soviet officer from russia, and this officer starts to fight , so they arrive at the station, then together they go somewhere to the center city ​​of singer, like a foreign-speaking person who knows polish

, i know well, he looks at the signs where it says kharkiv where it says hairdresser - this is exactly the same as what he sees in warsaw or in lviv, in lviv and the russian officer is fighting, what is kharkiv kharkiv and what a hairdresser like well, that's right, but it's a play, it's life, i can't understand this russian, what does this russian lack? if the prime minister is a nationalist, he came to the soviet city for nationalism, he's the master here, but i feel like he's in a hostile environment because it is written kharkiv well, because the soviets are absolutely artificial that behind this removal the same imperial chauvinism was opposed simply under red flags, it is also clear that all this uh-uh all this attempt to reconcile the national idea with the international idea has ended

30-33-37 years ago when in fact kharkiv was simply broken , the character is called like vinegar, a jar of pepsi is empty. they found this myth, which in fact, you know, in fact, it is not so clear-cut, on the one hand, well, for me, i definitely do not accept or clear any negative connotations of the term the first capital, because behind it is simply the defeat of the ukrainian people's republic, the defeat of ukrainian statehood, and so on in asia, the quasi-independence of the ukrainian ssr, and on the other hand, well, it was a kind of desperation for an attempt, you know, to stand on a tightrope and try to combine internationalism and, conditionally speaking, nationalism, and to combine the soviet table with the ukrainian, from this, to the brilliant generation of artists, engineers, scientists and political figures in the 20s who tried to get used to the side and their nature didn't work out. or maybe it's the other way around, maybe it's just people, people who lost, tried

to take advantage of this situation they were put in to save at least something. i apologize to the warsaw ghetto theater. you understand that the ghetto is already closed, everything is closed, but you are still trying to play plays. by the way, it is similar , it is actually quite significant. well, i don’t know. er, to speak or write or sing in ukrainian but it is clear that this is, well, this is just a huge compromise and the concept of the concept of disaster is just a-a well , it is a bit postponed, but for some, well, i am convinced that for some it was sincerely, that is, this infatuation with the leftist idea, infatuation with bolshevism, infatuation with the soviet government, it is quite possible that it was sincere for this generation, which means which ones did not fight, maybe or which did fight, but from the side of the reds, because, well, there were many of them, it is someone from

from the ranks of the energivtsi joined the ranks of the red writers, and some from the ranks of the soviet government, and some from the soviet army. he told me that he once walked here with a peasant. oh, you, they went to capture the central committee of the party, you can. it must be what party, yes, and that you discussed melenchuk's question, and here gonchar is telling me, he told me olesya, you will not live to see me, but where do i live? but you must you will surely live to the moment and when my rita will be here, our flag may not be possible, i don’t believe that haha ​​well, gonchar didn’t look like a person who would listen to anything, besides, he didn’t really like these people, as we can see from the diary. well, yes yes, i think that it was so simple the desire was such, he could say everything about it and it could have been an intellectual provocation, it is also desirable to speak, but on the other hand , it is desirable to be the son of a maneriv woman listen, well, the desire is also the same, you know it in principle, it is like

a person, a metaphor, like a person, the emblem of the entire ukrainian soviet that is, you can now take the position of such a radical and say that all this means a venal generation that betrayed the ukrainian people, as i said, and did not carry it, and so on. if they didn't exist, you can imagine what would have happened if our ukrainian culture really had a break in the connection between generations. and yet, you can completely imagine if, let's say, completely imagine, for example, what, let's say , the soviet government , the kremlin authorities simply start a policy of russification much tougher and much earlier just talking and why do you need ukrainian soviet literature let there be only soviet literature and why do you need this ukrainian encyclopedia that i was working on mykola platonovych there is a beautiful encyclopedia in moscow there everything is for you everything why did we make the institute of literature, why did the shevchenko museum, why do you have any national things at all, if

we have an internationalist and you know it , you can assume that this is how and that this is some kind of fantasy. in russia, what the bolsheviks were unable to do with the people of the soviet union is happening to the people of russia, because they were afraid, they saw the national movement and they understood that this is something that one way or another it grows, that is, if you if you don't look for it in time, yes, if you don't take root, it will sprout because these are such things that you can't stimulate them , you can't artificially create it, well, it's something at the level of mentality, at the level of identity, well , it always breaks through, sooner or later but on the other hand, norwegians really always suffer with this, i would say the knuto gamson complex , i was in norway at the moment when they seem to me to be the first time, or a postage stamp was issued

aha or some series was issued, e.e. disks of films on e works, some anniversary things there was some big anniversary and for the first time since the second world war they allowed themselves such a street no, but on the other hand, just to say that here is a great writer , well, again, i don't even know if the norwegian people would be as we know them without knotogampson, because it is almost as shevchenko for ukrainians, and on the other hand, a man who was a gypsy and wrote an obituary tour. what to do with this, this is a question of the splitting of the soul. it seems to me that ukrainians really want a situation with this soviet poets, and this should be said to ourselves and to writers and to understand how hereby to live listen, it seems to me no, that is, a little different . well, these are fundamentally different things, because we were a colony and we were occupied. that is,

it can usually be called. supporters according to their views. and we are also talking about people who were conscious supporters. well, in relation to the same bazhan or in relation to the same saussure or in relation to what you have done, how can we now read the consciousness of their attachment to of soviet power and, in principle, to the idea of ​​communism, and it seems that we have so much everything is broken, everything is so ambiguous, what can we do now to make such simplified, some kind of simplifying assessments, well, to be honest, this is not quite correct , it means being smart in hindsight well, i am just looking for exactly this, this opportunity this is interaction because i believe that the people cannot abandon their own culture if its representatives , let's say, acted inconsistently. mace's research, where he tried to show this whole project of soviet ukraine from the point of view of the actual people who created it at the national level, not from the point of view of moscow, and the colonizers who came here

joined the army... to work for them, and from the point of view of people who, one way or another, tried to see the meaning in this, in the construction of socialist ukraine itself, an attempt to defend some national interests, and here everything becomes much more paradoxical and much more more ambiguously, let's say the figure of skrypnyk, here we have a monument to a violinist and someone says that this is definitely a soviet figure who should be decommunized and so on. and i think that well , a lot can be said and this is far from hidden information from the other side the very phenomenon of ukrainization and the very phenomenon of cultural development, which to a large extent was lobbied and supported by the fiddler, there are people who have no monuments and who can play an even greater role as christians. he came to kyiv for negotiations with the government from skoropadskyi and spoke outside of the main thing na этом языке разговоряется этого языка нет and a couple of years later he was the person who

convinced vladimir lenin that ukraine should be a sovereign republic of the soviet union and advocated ukrainization well, as an activist, of course, here do you understand what this is? what to do with this to justify, say, committee members or members of the soviet government, or in order to show how much this process is interesting, it should be studied, in fact, it seems that in order to agree that more communism can be built in the ukrainian language, you just have to not be a chauvinist, this is the problem that the soviet union was built after the ministers became it is not intonationalism , but simply russian that the minister is clean well, 10 minutes ago i said that in fact, the soviet system is what is behind the red, uh , scenes, of course, the imperial chauvinist model, that is, the same thing. just hints

of internationalism with quotes from mars. to build as much as it is possible to build a ukraine, let's say, in which people realized the value of their national cultural processing to the extent that it is possible to imagine ukraine in general, what kind of people look specifically at kyiv and don't feel like you are provincials , it seems to me that something similar is happening now