[000:00:00;00] i mean, flying a helicopter over, respectively, the army 85 km from the position of the armed forces is the decision of the matter and the main thing. the scale and the main thing about those structures there are underground communications , bomb shelters there, that is, those engineering capabilities that give the armed forces of ukraine a chance to hold a long-term defense, so when they talk about the exception of individual

units as a tragedy. let's talk about planned rotation. mykola, the main thing is that we trust our own defenders to the armed forces of ukraine. the expert sang of the public initiative the right deal was in touch with us and we will now talk with the international renaissance fund if we have them in touch oleksandr sushko executive the director of this international revitalization fund - in other words it is sometimes called von soros and besides other things, he is also a political scientist and a public figure good health mr. oleksandr thank you for what is the time for us on sunday and yes and the first question is simple and difficult i don't know if you ready for a difficult question for whom, and what does the renaissance fund do now, once when i was

involved with it, i gave myself a report like this what does he do and now the war is already in its ninth year , the 10th has passed and the acute phase of the war is already over year, what is the renaissance fund doing at this time, because my colleagues wrote to me to ask you about the legal possibilities, let's say of legal proceedings against the russians , then i have a question, and the renaissance foundation sponsors the training of prosecutors, lawyers , judges, gives lectures, once i even participated in such lectures myself mr. oleksandr, please give me a word, you see, you have already named one of the areas of our work today , for which i am truly grateful

. politically, this is where we include work on the crime of aggression, that is, bringing to justice the highest officials of the state, and we really help in international courts and also in conversations with world politicians, preparing er support er actually working on solidarity approaches so that in the end in the end, we came up with a single mechanism that will allow putin and his publicists to be held accountable . in addition, this is responsibility for war crimes, and here already the criminals are specific e military personnel are their commanders, and we help our human rights defenders to collect specific cases, evidence, properly process them and send them to international judicial authorities, first of all, this is cooperation with the international criminal court, but not only. that is, it is the whole complex of works in

order to help the state process this incredible number of specific cases war crimes, the number of which is uh well, according to our official data, there are already more than 60,000 today, it is clear that no law enforcement system can cope with this on its own, therefore the help of non-governmental organizations of international donors is very important here, we are working on it, in particular, from recent events , i want to note that yesterday and today a high-level conference is taking place in lviv, which is completely dedicated to the issue of responsibility for the war, and very serious steps have already been announced regarding the creation of an international mechanism that will work in gas in the near future in order to coordinate all international efforts to bring russia to justice, this is one of the directions above, but

i would call it a very different direction work to help our public organizations that help us achieve victory i.e. here i have the logo of our competition keep in line see this is ours you can already say a branded competition for volunteer organizations thanks to which they can support their e-e staff support people who obviously after a year of tireless work they new forces are burning out, we need, in particular, qualified personnel in many fields, and we help volunteer organizations to support their own capacity, their effectiveness. i'm not talking about the fact that in the first months of the war we focused on direct

aid there and helped hospitals and local communities and just public organizations that took care of e.g. displaced persons or wounded people or people who lost their e-e family members although we are not a humanitarian as an organization, we do not provide humanitarian aid in the classic form, but we try to help those on the ground who have faced these unprecedented problems in order to increase their ability to do good deeds, oleksandr look, this is such an absurd question for i think that i would be laughed at by lawyers, lawyers who have graduated from law schools, because

i am sitting, you mention the figure of 60,000 possible cases. you roughly understand how the x case is going, and then if it is actually similar to game z and so on, then you can act like this and then it is no longer 60,000, but let's say twice less, yes, well, that is, the burden on judges and lawyers there are fewer prosecutors as well, but the continental law in ukraine, where there are no precedents, it just forces and will force such a process that they take to continue . i do n’t know for decades. i imagine that in gas, somewhere in europe, the law was considered quickly, what do you say, but definitely it is not about fast, but it is about

not avoiding punishment, so i would like to say that the matter is really not easy, but you say that we lack some kind of precedent law, but i i will say more, we lack even an article in the criminal code that would establish responsibility for war crimes, we simply do not have it, unfortunately, and the draft law that was already voted in the verkhovna rada has not been signed yet . in the 1st year of the war in the second year of the full-scale war, we still do not have sufficient legal instruments to punish war criminals. therefore, this is one of the directions of assistance to the state. we are cooperating with the parliament and the government where possible

in order to speed up this process and complete it as soon as possible. at one time, a lot of effort was made and a bill was passed that covers these gaps, but so far it has not been acquired or it has not been signed. entered into force. i don't quite understand the logic of ours. it's okay, it's not for you, mr. oleksandr. i think you're in the know , but it's simple for the audience, but keep in mind, gentlemen , viewers, ladies and gentlemen, that if it's not signed and hasn't started to take effect, then the law of retroactivity there is no and all charges that will be brought against anyone pease that happened before the approval of the law will be destroyed in the european court of rights in the court of human rights automatically because there is no reverse law if he committed what we now call a crime in july 22

and the law will be adopted on the fifth of march of the 23rd year, he is not liable to this person, so that he does not cheat, because according to roman law, it is a law, and there is no retroactive effect, and the act must be recorded in the law , if it is not recorded there on the 20th, it means the second year a person can do whatever he wants, but if he does not fall under this law , it is very difficult to prove later in the european court that he will go to court and win the case. yes, of this type, that is, we do not have a separate category of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and this is a problem. in a certain way, this problem can be filled by our cooperation with the international criminal court, which has already undertaken

several dozen of the most uh, uh, uh, very vivid cases of crimes, this bucha, this mariupol, some other cases, but the capacity of the international criminal court is also not unlimited, in the best case, they will take 20-30 such cases, and they are already, as we say , more than 60,000 ago it is clear that we still have a lot to work on about international politics. my colleagues here tell me what to ask you. i am not convinced that you know the answer to this question . i do not know for sure . presidents of the united states well, unfortunately, i don't know, we don't know, nobody knows who williams is, well, that means she won't be the president of the united states. because if mr. sushko and i don't know, then

there aren't that many people in america besides the neighbors of ms. williamson know about its existence , but in principle, if you look at it today, why am i asking you for the audience, because after all , the soresus von virodjanje soros foundation is an american of hungarian origins , but can you be interested in america, and how likely is trump's victory? you are sitting in the kitchen and drinking some with friends or maybe a beer and discussing something and suddenly you are discussing the election of the president of the united states, what is the future like today, because many people are worried that trump will come , destroy the aid system, end the war in favor of the russian federation, he has already made such a statement that i i will finish everything in a day if i come to power. and they say that he has a lot of support in the republican party. he is an absolutely real candidate for them. what do you say

about trump and his political future? well , look, it is clear that in a democratic system nothing is excluded, er, each of the leaders can win. but as of today, trump's chances of returning to the presidency are less than they were a year ago . first of all, it is the governor of florida, disantis , who has gained quite serious support, and to date, trump is far from guaranteed a nomination from the republican party, he will still have to fight for it we'll see, but this is only the first phase of getting the nomination from the republican party, and then we will have to fight either with the current president biden or with another representative of the democratic party if uh

biden decides to retire, we all don't know that yet so, so, so, i think that there are still many opportunities for trump to lose his chance, alexander, the last question , a peace agreement is not excluded, we do not know in detail what is going on, and biden-sholtz and the chancellor, uh, talked about it in german, what did you are you thinking about that if? well, very carefully, but they are starting to talk about a peace agreement, what kind of peace agreement is it between kyiv and moscow , what can it be and can it be, from your point of view, at all? well, with their intentions, they say it because, in principle, the majority of them, well, almost all wars end with some kind of peace agreement, but

there is nothing sensational here, it is another matter who dictates the terms of such an agreement, who has a stronger position, and here, of course, the situation depends on the picture on the fronts from the general stability that the parties can demonstrate yes who is more ready for a decisive breakthrough in this war and therefore it is clear that we are now focused with you and our entire people not on a peace agreement but on how to knock russia out of our territory and then someday the question of a peace agreement will arise, which will first of all include the restoration of the territorial integrity of ukraine and the punishment of criminals actually, but i think that under such conditions we will have no objections to such an agreement. but today these talks are very

theoretical today, no one is seriously discussing the parameters of such an agreement because , in principle, both russia and ukraine today hope primarily for success on the battlefield, and in the future it will already be clear who will approach that phase more convincingly. will come when the final parameters of the peace will be determined by some kind of peace agreement. thank you oleksandr sushko, executive director of the international renaissance foundation, a political scientist , a public figure, was in touch with us now , let's talk about russia, let's start talking about russia, oleg dunda, the people of ukraine, and we just want to sum up before the voting of the online referendum began. we took place in the russian federation. good day . good health. let's start from another place

. i will continue the referendum. the topic with mr. soshkovo is not very interesting. well. he is me he is at his place on sunday as is mine as is yours as i am at work he was just at work you are at work now but i can't force mr. sushka to do anything on his day off i don't say that force is very it is interesting that the peace is applied agreement, because i hear a lot about it, and here i am really interested in how people who talk about some kind of peace agreement with russia, how do they imagine putin medvedev, who is conditional, sitting there and signing with zelenskiy or zaluzhnym or someone else or with baid, it doesn’t matter the essence, it doesn’t matter, they will sign the peace water and in in this year of peace, it is prescribed that war criminals, including those who sign on the side of moscow

, must go through a judicial procedure and to the extreme. if you want to know an answer theoretically, i will answer you. although i am not a lawyer. but you know, it will be the same as we will say in 1998 about sloboda on milošev, what was said about who walks , who will rub him in the mouth, how can it be he is the acting president of serbia yes, he successively attacked slovenia and croatia and so on, but the time has come when the government of serbia itself betrayed him and why does anyone think that putin or medvedev will sign the peace agreement first. regarding putin, i have strong doubts. and if the bear becomes president and he will explained and it will be explained to him that either your country will die altogether from various sanctions or you will turn out to be a war criminal for us and then we will not touch you and betray you as a little one, moreover, i will absolutely convince

you that russia will persuade ukraine and the west let's lift the sanctions and we will putin блюдечки злой бойкой емочкой different things happen in the world, why did we think that putin is sitting there forever, but i have another question for you , a small trailer, look with mr. not loshavych, any agreements that are signed with the younger, who did not foresee what he would give a war criminal, including himself, let's not exaggerate, secondly, that mr. milosevic is a story from yugoslavia, it was a different serbia, a completely different story, and serbia then suffered a military defeat and they hit belgrade. the past 45th year e-e signs the reasoning we will not be the program is hosted by mykola veresen and not the hundah that is why we will now talk about referendums online in the russian federation because

we spent 5 minutes, i.e. a third of the time 33% , to talk to you and now in a wide one public organization, they need to be worked on. and since come to lviv, we will sit down for a beer, we will talk about everything in the world and about serbia, the deficits and about putin, the agreement as the capitulation of russia, it is very important for ukraine, and not just important, very important, but as soon as you come to my place, i for yours, you will immediately choose the whole and i will sit there and obey because you will demand from me as a journalist so alexander of the regions ural siberia kuban and konigsberg in short there are some regions , we will not name all of them because there are such exotic that i don't even know how

the st. petersburg region is separate, how far these online referendums are already going, how many people took part and how they vote, because they started something else in february this year, and it's already march here, mr. mykola, then i'm a little to be clear, they started on february 16 and ended on february 28. that is, there was a referendum . we passed and participated in these referendums, more than 5 million respondents from the representatives of the russian empire, and there are no strange regions there, there are five regions that are known to absolutely every ukrainian this is the urals siberia, kuban, tuningsberg, it is zheka, leningrad and st. petersburg, it is already an ingredient, it is the primary name of this region, few people know such a word , but nurg will now know, now they will know, because when a separate independent sovereign republic is created there, it will most likely be called indrian and st. st. petersburg, we can see that st. supports

independence 72% he will come, that is, he will come himself 66 kuban 56 siberia 53 and the urals 50 68 for independence well, accordingly, the minority is against independence and now the question is how many are you you say that's all 5 million people took part 5 million six hundred thousand for 10 there was some kind of oppression, someone checked it there, the fsb of russia monitored well, in short, what was the reaction of official moscow , the official kremlin and the carning of the bodies of the russian federation to the holding of these referendums, was this reaction, well, let me remind you about this referendum for the first time, well, the first time was expressed in brussels in the european parliament at the end of january and somewhere, it seems, at the beginning of february, the site was already created, it was already being prepared for a long time and on the second day how

did roskomnadzor create it this is a russian one we call a law enforcement agency that looks after internet communities the very next day banned it and tried in every possible way to put up any barriers so that people from the russian empire could not enter there and vote there and they could not enter there at all, but from the very at the beginning, when this garden was created, such a procedure was proposed that would allow a little slower but still without a vpn to log in and vote, it took a little time, but it was possible and that is why it worked as it should in the future, things happened very interestingly, many of uh, the propagandists of moscow started to make fun of this, well, 5-10 propagandists will vote somewhere there, and yes, i actually saw it , very good russian liberals were also made fun of, and i also asked different questions to different people, what does this mean that they do not even

understand what they empire, even liberals and that something should be done about it , and they continued to think that they have an empire and everything, that everything will be as it once was, good russian so-called. and venediktov and shepherds, they all admit that the empire is what they are now doing, trying to find any uh-uh arguments so that this empire no longer exists, no one at the same time khodakovsky began to shout that the empire must exist because the collapse of the russian empire threatens some kind of cataclysm for every future region that is, they are imperialists , there are no good so-called russians, no matter where they go, they return to before the referendum, uh, at the beginning, they scoffed because they thought that they would vote there 5-10 thousand but sometime after february 20, when they saw that the vote had already

exceeded several million, they had the impression that the island had reached them, and somewhere 2-3 days before the end of the vote, it came to the point that even putin and medved never once did they publicly talk about their fears and about the development of the empire, they started shouting one uh through a television interview, it's putin, and medvedev started saying that this is the first threat to their power , to the existence of the russian empire, it's a collapse, and the same medvedev wrote about it and by the way he is he himself admitted that an empire, any empire has a finite life, its own history, and it is a matter of time when it will disappear, so i want to tell them, taking into account how many people voted in this referendum, this worries the citizens of the russian empire, and it is very disturbing and the question and existence is already a question of a rather short time . olezhe, look at another such question. maybe you know, maybe not

here, here, no one can, no one knows, i just personally know. it is very interesting . konigsberg, that is, kaliningrad. what are they for independence, for secession? and what do you think, if the question of the so-called east prussia were to arise, would they have voted by the same 72 percent for joining the federal republic of germany? well, i won't delve into the history, it's a terrible story, how it got into stalin's hands, this territory was simply exterminated, and when churchill asked stalin what was happening there, he said, "i

can't do anything stalin's, there's no one, they all ran away and that's why the navel is empty. well, here then, if there are empty spaces, then the russians will live. and what to do. there, someone has to take care of this territory, even though there was no birth there , there was simply a mass murder, rape and expulsion of all the people who lived there. so they can ask to go back to germany p mykola i have an answer to this question because for two separate regions it is quicksberg and he i will remind you once again that the so-called leningrad region and st. petersburg there, the question for them was slightly modified and there the question is not only about sovereignty and independence, but also about the future fate of these regions as part of the european union, that is, not as part of a separate state, but as part of another state, or poland, or the baltic countries, or as you say, in the east precisely as an independent state that is part of the european union, for example, like belgium conditionally or the czech republic, and these percentages that

are currently on the screen, 72%, say that the residents are those who live in the end-bergs. they are, after all, supporters of being a part of the european union as an independent and independent state is normal and there are no borders. then there is no difference whether you belong to poland or you do not belong to the czech republic or latvia or other countries. you also have no borders . trade without taxation is the only one, as it is called in this case, it is better for them to be separate from the independence of the state , moreover, he noted that we are civilized western democrats, including ukraine, according to our norms and according to the norms of western democracy , none of this country has the right to claim some other territory, the borders are established and there is no need to open pandora's box, it is better if someone wants their sovereignty and leave the russian empire

. ship, but i have the impression that, for example, kuban , about which many ukrainians say that it is ukraine , and it really is ukrainian territory historically , but oleg, it seems to me that it is so russified, they are such russian cossacks here are these cossacks, er, they are not me, i imagine yours, i just don’t know about anything else , about that, about this. i’m more or less interested because these are ukrainian lands, but i don’t think it ’s easy to say there whether you are ukrainians, and i recently i was watching some russian program and there they performed a song in the pure ukrainian language and someone asked and what did they say

, this is ba lat, this is a kuban accent, it is called chatter , that is, they do not understand that they are ukrainians, that they got there from ukraine, that it was many centuries ago, the cossacks got there ukrainians and so on and the like, they are russian people. pay attention to the results of the referendum. it was kuban that showed the lowest results for its independence there under 60%. and all the other four regions gave more for more than that. i want to note that we have ukrainians in kyiv. as i already said, there should be no territorial claims, our strategy should be simple on our eastern borders , independent republics should be created, and kyiv should be the leader in this, let’s call it the territory of montenegro, around which should be arranged