[000:00:00;00] well, when you set some conditions, if you want to trade with the european union, you must, for example, bring all the arrested or detained people out of prisons. transnistria is the first and second, of course, to ensure that the political parties of moldova can communicate freely with the citizens of our country who are on the left bank of the dniester. it is still not a reality. i, for example , many other colleagues who, according to the parliament , are on the black lists of this regime. i can’t just go to tiraspol like that. and meet there with my citizens on topics that could participate in political life because the regime has its own canons and

principles and i have not yet found this formulation and tools in order to influence the results of such an opening in the pronaovskoe region, but i think that this the priority of our actions is demilitarization , which should be combined with the democratization of the region in a different way. i think that any talks on the topic of special status simply do not make sense. thank you, ihor muntyanov , doctor of political sciences, former member of the parliament of moldova and the ambassador of moldova to the united states was in our program and now we will talk about religious topics ihor kozlovsky, candidate of religious sciences, candidate of historical sciences, former political prisoner of the kremlin, and oksana harkusha, a religious scholar, we are in touch and we will talk with you about what is happening around the uoc mp after a decision was made that the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate

should leave the monastery in the lower lavra before it . they refused to use the temples of the upper lavra. let's talk about the civilized legal level of this decision, let's start with you, mr. igor. well, this event is really important now in this historical time, and we understand that there are still many difficult moments ahead that are precisely related to the legal component of this process. well, first of all, we understand that the the church is not ready not only to leave the lower lavra, it is not at all ready to enter into any dialogue with the ukrainian state and all the various efforts of the ukrainian authorities and civil society to establish such

a constructive dialogue, unfortunately, it is not from the side the church itself is not only not supported, but even on the contrary, they are hostile to any such steps that could, from the point of view of us, the religion of the traitors, and in general , our entire civil society, resolve the issue so that the orthodox church finally becomes the church of the ukrainian people, and they most likely on march 14, as it was proposed in this document, well, they will not introduce their representatives, they will drag out this process, they will prepare for the trial before

the trial, and in this way we will observe such, well, again, processes in which the ukrainian orthodox church itself will constantly emphasize that they are a church of martyrs, that it is a church that suffers from the authorities, and we can already see this in their letters to representatives of various religious structures, including the pope, this speaks of the fact that they have not fully realized the situation they are in. they do not fully understand or because of the fear that they will lose leverage over their communities. they have been playing with the authorities for a long time and tried to create something like this. quasi symphony from the ukrainian government. this is a certain period

of our independence. they managed to exist independently, but they were really representatives of ukrainians . unfortunately, the bishop of the church did not offer anything constructive for his church, this led to the fact that the very structure of the ukrainian orthodox church is now in in such a difficult state, and we will not avoid the error of generalization and will not say that they are monolithic, it is not monolithic, but they

offer something at the bottom, but the episcopate itself is in such a situation. i would say that the fundamentalist defense against the authorities will lead to it's a pity that the whole church will finally be put on the sidelines. thank you, mr. igor. so, ms. oksana, how do you see the consequences of this decision? i can't hear you. there is no sound. ms. ms. oksano, we have no sound. mrs. oksana, take it because there is no sound. and you better tell us then, in principle. now, when the ministry of culture warns against the theft of relics of value from the lavra, you admit that

they can take the relics of saints. well, i think that they can do anything, you already saw what they did there when they left from the upper lavra and we know that very often their actions are so christian, but the self-view of their believers, we understand that the church is a christian church, it is an evangelical church based on the principles of christian love , but in reality and in history in modern times we see a lot of examples. when all this is again brought out in parentheses and the church then becomes, well, an ordinary association that uses there on the upper sabers of power those mechanisms that are directed

precisely at them, at their enrichment, at their power, we see that they never leave the language of hatred, which again is not characteristic of christianity itself, and they are still looking for lobbyists and that they can rob in one way or another, well, of course. there is something that really belongs to the state, and something that belongs to the church itself ms. oksano returned to us, they did not return, but not to ihora . i wanted to ask you, what do you think, in principle , that the upcmp community, which is quite numerous, how will it react to all these situations with the lavra will it react at all no, it is already reacting, it is already reacting

and we emphasize once again that it is not monolithic, we have heard the same criticism from father andriy pinchuk and some other priests, but so that already now we can observe such systemic repression which the church itself is beginning to use to these very oppositionists, precisely the oppositionists to the episcopate, to the clergy of this church, this indicates that they work the way they work. by the way, the russian occupying power in our occupied territories is that i should not intimidate the active pro-ukrainian opposition part and further sow fear and this fear will already work and someone will simply watch, someone

will be silent . gospels, what will drive them, i constantly emphasize that you are being persecuted not for christ , i am not persecuting you for christ. you must admit your mistakes, mistakes that are connected with the fact that you never said your word regarding collaboration and bishops, even priests and believers your church and those collaborations that exist both in the old occupied territories and now not in the new ones, and this indicates that the church is not aware of its responsibilities to the ukrainian people, it does not really make such judgments that could at least somehow raise it

there is authority in the eyes of ukrainian society , ms. oksano. yes, i listen to you. let's talk about how you see the consequences of this landmark decision about the uoc mp, which would leave the lavra anyway. thank you, look. so , we had to first we have dispositions, that is, in which disposition do the supporters of the uoc mp see themselves , or is it actually the russian orthodox church in ukraine, how do they compare themselves to ukraine ? today i watched the service in the lavra. we saw the first group of parishioners brought to the genimih fans, representatives of the pcmp, to the lavra to demonstrate that they would move their parishioners if they were against this trend of displacement, and we saw that we saw that the

prayer was in russian. to pick up these parishioners to destabilize the internal situation in ukraine, but again the russian language yes, and further sermon i have already listened to the sermon of anuphrius please tell me well you didn't listen but is the word ukraine at all anuphria was used in the sermon, of course. it was not used. he also spoke about what is needed to bless our land. the lord must bless our land, so that people reconcile with each other, so that shots stop ringing, that is, there is no clear definition of the reality of identity. he does not say that he is in the locus of modern ukraine and its parishioners are those people who are residents of ukraine who are removed from the real flow of ukraine from the reality of ukraine itself, that is, they do not live , they do not coexist with us in our modern events

they are taken outside the boundaries of real ukraine , the point of view is constantly imposed on them that they should be in opposition to this ukraine because the government in our country is persecuting their church, persecuting verst and so on and so on . this is not the disposition of the ukrainian church. the disposition of the institution that is subordinated abroad to the institution that has its own center in the kremlin , and we understand that this disposition is fully consistent with the disposition of, say, the same patriarch kirill, who, of course , formulates his sermon in a completely different way, but at the same time, he is very concerned that his subordinate part will be evicted from the lavra. of course, you know the consequences. i would like us to cleanse not only our material, spiritual and cultural sanctuaries from the presence of kremlin propaganda and kremlin propaganda institutes, but i would also like us to cleanse the consciousness of our citizens can be freed from this

occupation by the russian peace. and tell me, what do you think, mr. oksano, and other lavras can also be questioned from the point of view of their belonging to the uoc mp, first of all, the pochaiv lavra, of course, which has never been a lavra of the pcmp in history. well, i believe that tre should constantly seek to have these lavras released because the lavras belong to the ukrainian people . but this institution, as i have already said and given specific examples, is not a ukrainian church. people, and in this way we need it. i think in general i have not said it anywhere yet , but maybe i can say that i see potential in the laurels , you know in which direction we have many soldiers after the front with injuries, they can no longer return to the front. and we know that

they were filled with monks, and many of these monks were former soldiers . and there the state of ukraine could open rehabilitation centers for our soldiers, and then ukrainian spiritualists could work with these soldiers, and this could, you know, give a boost to the renewal of orthodoxy in general in the world and such a peculiar well , in this way, i would like to see this as soon as possible. thank you, i want to thank the guests of this part of the broadcast , ihor kozlovsky and oksana gorkusha, we talked about what is happening with ukrainian orthodoxy, with the fact that moscow the church should leave the lower lavra, this is such a historical event that is absolutely obvious from the point of view of the future of the lavra, oksana harkusha spoke quite eloquently about the fact that the lavra they should belong to the ukrainian people from the answers to some of the questions that

we have here sofia klinovska you in your column on the local history wrote that when ukraine reads kobzar, he comes across the same shevchenkas and divine sparks that give him the opportunity to feel himself, that are combined with the people. and you feel something similar when you read the torah. and when you first felt a connection with their people, what circumstances became decisive for what to do for those ukrainians who still cannot feel the same connection with their people, you know i believe that a connection with the people is such a thing that consists of two important ones, as i would say components, the first is your inner desire to have such a connection or not , and then no one will force you

, and the second is family upbringing, how does the family feel about it or are they ready to support you in the family? media that either support all this or not support in soviet times, of course, to feel some kind of connection with the jewish people, this was in itself an act of the environment that tried to protect it and help children feel this connection, despite the obvious unwillingness of the state to preserve such an identity in people at all, and people made a choice, someone did a choice at the cost is not even russification. i would say sovietization and these people actually remained without a sense of homeland because they ceased to be jews but did not become russians and ukrainians usually became such i think of myself as soviet people with peculiar life values ​​and cultural preferences, and this obviously applies to people

of different ethnic origins in the soviet union. it was certainly not the case with me because i felt. i believe that this is what all people feel when they hear their own folk music when they take a book that is about their world , about their family, it is not by chance that once the native language, the language of the family, the native culture, the culture of the family , a person feels it, then a simple thing happens, or a person thinks that it is dangerous for him feel now, as we see there, many ukrainians in russia are trying to get away from it. or she understands that it is part of her personality and she lives with it. family, books, conversations, understanding of one's civilizational affiliation , in the end, a sense of pride in the fact that you is a part of a certain civilization, each of us in each nation has something to be proud of, not only dostoevsky's turgens, especially when you

belong to such ancient nations as the jewish people, but i will say right away that for me this part of my identity has always was also connected with the fact that i spoke ukrainian as well as russian since childhood, i saw that the country in which i live corresponds exactly to the ukrainian language, that the russian language is foreign to it, that it does not overlap with its civilizational soil, what should those ukrainians do who cannot feel a connection with their people. i believe that ukraine has a real problem of identity, a huge number of people who live on our land do not feel that they are not ukrainians, this is true, and moreover , they do not feel this country of ukraine, we we can assume that the war has changed it. but we don't know what will happen after the war . i say once again that identity cannot be acquired, it can only

be felt as love. you can of course have a marriage with a person you don't love, but it's still a marriage based on feelings. it will arise, they always said, oh, then, as always, then it will be tolerated, it will fall in love, a favorite russian proverb for all of us, it will not be tolerated and it will not fall in love, and this applies to those people who do not consider ukraine to be ukraine in full, what to do, first of all, help the new generations people who will live here feel like a ukrainian, i repeat to those who want it, to those who don't want it, you will never change anything but those who want it should be given the opportunity to reveal themselves, it's family, it's education, it's also

promoting the development of art, the development of cinema, popular music, you understand for that in order to feel fully ukrainian , the full spectrum of human desires must be satisfied in the ukrainian-speaking world, from the high standards of literature to the simplest pop song from a serious film that was either shot in ukrainian or translated that this terrestrial film with ukrainian subtitles to youtube video about some interesting details of our present that are of interest to a young person to tiktok if a person finds himself in a situation where the ukrainian language

serves only one sector of his life, he will definitely find himself in that linguistic environment in his life completely her whole life and all her interests serve that's why in the soviet union everything was done to folklorize and marginalize ukrainian here you sing dance cook borscht and here is when something serious science, public service, please, in russian, something modern, something new

, please, in russian, and you are talking to yourself in the village, this was real. sometimes stupid, let it be made by any show company of known quality, but it must be in ukrainian, because if there are no such stupid series for a certain category of the population, they will watch these films in russian, well, to understand this, it is not necessary to assume that ukrainian is possible only in the clouds do not fly, the founder of the state of israel, david ben-horion, when he said that he would believe in the effectiveness of the jewish state, when there will be jewish policemen and jewish prostitutes, this is completely related to ukrainian statehood, criminals must speak to their victims in ukrainian when you want to get a wallet, or a wallet, or a life, but

a wallet or life, that's when we can say that the state took place, how strange it sounds. and when they speak with you here in one language, here in another, here you can speak here, you can't here. yes this is how you immediately fall into the world of the empire, from which we need to get out once and for all . for 50 years they did not give march 9 , shevchenko's birthday, the head of the committee makarov explained that they decided to add an additional competition for a contribution to the victory and announce the previously determined laureates and

again on may 22, the day of kobzar's reburial, but on march 11, the winners were announced. what actually happened and did the president sign the award decree ? i don't know what actually happened, like you. i also followed the events in the media. as far as i understand , the awarding of laureates was on different days before and the decree was signed on different days, the idea was that on these days , on march 9, the decision of the committee on the third round of elections should be made public . not on the ninth, we don't know what happened on the ninth, maybe the members of the committee had their own opinions . let them talk about it themselves. this is not my exact competence. the decree when it will be considered necessary, nothing regulates the signing of the decree on march 9 and the awarding of the award on march 9. on march 9

, only the decision of the taras shevchenko national award committee of ukraine should have been made public. it has now been made public and we will wait for the next actions resulting from this publication. so i would not say now that we are waiting for the decision of the president himself and the signing of his decree. so we will wait to see what the competition for the contribution to the victory will look like. the committee must still be working. we have not yet heard his statements about the fact that he developed this provision, the government of ukraine must approve this provision, this is the whole story, this is the budget story, it is not for nothing that the winner of the shevchenko prize receives a reward for this same prize, therefore it must be appropriate as approved in the state budget. you should remember that the laureates of the shevchenko prize receive benefits from your taxes from your taxes and not by themselves, and

this requires a corresponding change in the relevant budgeting legislation, replacing some decisions with others, because the budgeting of this prize for 2023 has already been established in the current budget, which means that certain articles will obviously need to be changed with the participation of the parliament. but i consider it absolutely true that either this year or next. people who are not only the authors of works of art today, but also protect our country at the front and create. perhaps at this time, by the way , such people were also among the nominees of the shevchenko prize in 2023. in general, i think that a very important point here is that we are not honoring specific people with this prize people, only the laureates of this award, we honor taras hryhorovych shevchenko with this award, this is the main meaning of this national

award, that we remind our compatriots of the great importance taras had for our lives, for ukrainian culture, for of ukrainian civilization, therefore, i always propose all the events that take place with the national award since the time it was founded in soviet times to largely replace this concept of shevchenko, because we must remember that the soviet occupiers on ukrainian land used shevchenko, continuing it as an award tried to find themselves already in the new independent state, how did the image of shevchenko change in the eyes of our compatriots with you all these 30 difficult years of the development of the ukrainian state and starting with the new the period when we entered the period of war and we understand that shevchenko is a warrior shevchenko who was clearly aware of all the dangers of coexistence with russia, the neighborhood with this

empire and its actions on ukrainian land, now all this relentless and harsh time of this war he will be with us and we will have to once to think about awarding the laureates of the shevchenko prize in those difficult conditions, i hope that it will be a very mild military action, but this is not the conflict with russia. it can be preserved for the lives of whole generations of ukrainians who have to learn to adapt and live in this conflict because adapting and living in this conflict is now the main task of any citizen of ukraine who sees himself on this land and not in emigration and in emigration will have to learn to adapt to psychological existence with this conflict and with from this point of view, shevchenko as a monoman will play an even greater role because he will support us in those difficult conditions in which we find ourselves and some of which we

are only beginning to get used to we are beginning to realize what an array of problems we are facing, in fact we have been since 1991, we have only been living with our eyes closed, the father opened his eyes on february 24, 2020, in the second year, and now we will have to live with our eyes open for a long time, and shevchenko lived with his eyes open all his life, a victim with himself because in he always had open eyes and this is the real sacred meaning of the shevchenko national award and our respect for it. at this hour, please. well, i am asking you. congratulations , i will tell you about the most important thing later, and i will start this