[000:00:00;00] worth exactly so we have two peace plans at once, as from the year of plenty to the anniversary of the beginning of the war, two peace plans appeared at once, one of them was voted on february 23 in the form of a resolution in the un general assembly, which is based on the ukrainian peace formula or the so-called zelenskyi peace formula and the second. literally 5 hours after that , china's peace plan appears. although china itself, by the way , abstained from voting for this resolution in the un , 5 hours later, it introduced the world to its sledgehammer, so to speak, so i refrained. from this word, jenya, you gave and said your own peace plan

, which consists of 12 points so that the audience can more or less understand what we are talking about. it is a call for territorial integrity. well, it is written in all countries, but first of all, of course, it is about ukraine, including crimea. in addition, it is the demilitarization of zaporizhzhia by the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, a ban, an absolute ban on the use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances of the circumstances, the movement towards negotiations under which a ceasefire will become possible is not just a ceasefire, as, for example, mr. orban from hungary called for, namely, a movement towards those conditions when a ceasefire will become acceptable and possible for ukraine, including ukraine's rejection of military blocs, this is something that we certainly did not like and one more unpleasant point for us is the cancellation of sanctions against russia. well, actually, this is the plan on

the one hand, as i said. it caused a restrained positive response from kyiv, and the president also responded quite positively to it zelenskyi, the minister of foreign affairs kuleba, on the other hand, the head of european diplomacy, josep borel, stated that this plan is not very good, at least because it puts the aggressor and the country that is defending itself on the same board, and instead talks about some parties that should strive to resolve the conflict as if they are somehow equally to blame for this conflict, although in reality this is not the case. so, mr. ruslan, here is the first question i want to ask you. appeared at all, because china is not known for any great successes in peacekeeping anywhere in the world, so that china has achieved something somewhere, on the contrary, it now has such a slippery situation when, on the one hand, it supports the aggressor, on the other hand , it does not speak about it directly and avoids all kinds of

direct references to the fact that it in general, it is on the side of russia. well, at least look at the reaction of the chinese media themselves, which are only state -owned and not free. we all know this and understand why china rolled out this plan, what does it want to tell us? well, let's deal with of the main things, in fact, this is not a plan, but peaceful initiatives. let's say it's a positional document, a non-paper is what diplomats call it when the state presents its positions on this or that issue. the plan provides for the deadlines of the executors, that is, it is clear what needs to be done by which deadline and who will be responsible for certain things. therefore these are peace initiatives, secondly, the second point is better than what the russians said when they read this plan, i will not say how they consider it, this peace plan, firstly, they approve it, secondly

, they consider it as a tool achieving the goals in one's own political and diplomatic way is the essence of what russia saw . our enemy is therefore what the russians like to us a priori cannot be suitable for that. in 2013 and look at the concept adopted by china in building a new world order, it as a country positions itself as a country that is equal to the united states of america and offers an alternative to creating international relations. the concept was called a community of common destiny for mankind, the so-called key and basis of this concept is a challenge to hygiene for the united states of america between civilizational universalism, it was based on marxism plus confucianism, confucianism is the golden

mean, balance, so they say about harmony , balance, peace and development in principle, and so on this concept begins we have the confrontation of the united states of america since the 13th year since the 13th year the united states develops the concept of this s litelis developed the concept of the strategy of the united states in relations with china and where it prescribed that it will be a balance without deterrence, that is, how will they deal with the fact that you are a country that actually creates an alternative system of international relations . we live today in the bretton budd system , which was created as a result of the second world war, this is a security system, an economic eye , international institutions, the imf, the world bank and it all dominates here in the united states of america in fact china is fighting this dominant russia is an ally of china and also torpedoes

in fact even china you know looks like this of a shady dealer who put his fighter in the ring and who fights for him, in fact, this is what it looks like. and behind the scenes , it is the master of this fighter who collects the biggest profits. that is how he is the overlord, and russia has already become a vassal, it has ceased to be a center of power, it has become a vassal of china and undoubtedly , china also uses it as a tool , so this confrontation resulted in what in this concept that i said chinese for humanity of a common destiny, they even defined the regions for which they will fight, they will to fight for central asia, they will fight for latin america, for the arab world and the countries of asia. that is, it is the global south that we are talking about, with which we will not finalize. but it was heard before that that ukraine is not finalizing with the african countries with the countries of the south, so china is already in fact with in the 80s, it strengthens its position in these countries through finances, through political relations, through peacekeeping missions, increases its

authority in the global south, this is competition, this is a document, this is a tool for the continuation of this competition, combined states of america, why did the plan appear now, it didn't appear for a year, and here it suddenly took off and appeared because the balance of forces on the battlefield was disturbed , russia began to lose, therefore, to lose its subjectivity precisely because earlier russia claimed that it wanted to overcome take on the role of the other pole. and now, in fact, the master of this fighter must go behind the scenes. china itself must come out because russia has already lost its subjectivity . precisely because it is defeated on the battlefield. document to start political and diplomatic maneuvers to prevent russia from losing because when russia loses there will be consequences for china as well. russia can be reformed into a democratic country that will actually be

, let's say, to contain china. that is, it will become a partner in measures to contain china and then china will not be able to achieve the strategic goals of the world economy by 2049, how does it set strategic goals for itself, and how does china move towards this goal, and what if it needs to achieve this strategic goal china, then we will understand politics and how to deal with china. china china needs peace inside, that is, a balance of social and political peace inside and on the external circuit, so that precisely in this document there is a restoration of these logistical production chains, it says that there should be no nuclear war, this is all china is doing in order for it to be able to increase its potential and become the number one country. and when it becomes the number one country politically, there is no need for any wars due to its influence and soft power, it solves all the issues of taiwan why did this plan

appear just now? volodymyr zelensky commented on it, i will quote it verbatim. it seems to me that it was a non-peaceful plan of china, not a resolution and not a declaration , it is not an infrastructure for something. the explanation of how he sees this war before this was only a statement that they do not allow the use of nuclear weapons, that this is unacceptable. and then this document appears, and after that there is a visit to lukashenka in belarus oh, to lukashenka, to china, before that there was a visit of the president to iran, also to china, that is, some kind of raffle begins. and this begins political and diplomatic maneuvers. china joined the game, let's say, when he saw that i was trying to formulate my place at the negotiating table in order for

him to share positions itself that it is generally a separate center of power that opposes another center of power by the united states of america, it considers all these moves tactical only in the corridor of confrontation with the hegemony of the united states of america, its goal to discredit the united states of america and to raise its authority before the countries of the global south, and this peace document also has a second purpose behind the scenes, the first one is proposed as an alternative to the already existing peace plan, which was developed in the camp of democratic countries. it is offered to them . they reject it and he says they rejected it. our peace proposals, they supply weapons to a country where there is a conflict

. because they actually add oil to the fire of the conflict, as china says, and they advocate peace, certain forces in the west can really accept this thesis and it will fall on fertile ground, so to speak, if china really says well, we wanted to, but you see, instead the west, on the contrary, is pumping ukraine with weapons. thus, it contributes to the continuation of the conflict, and in fact there are certain circles in the west for whom this will be food because, well, we remember this confrontation between the trumpists and , let's say, another part more inclined to common sense in the united states and actually , in my humble opinion, why did putin even dare to go to this war simply because he believed that the united states is so divided now in such and such a situation when biden was perceived by many as some kind of grandfather who has already lost his a connection with reality that will no longer be able to unite the west and in general

america itself is already being torn apart by contradictions within itself, so remember at least this rapture of the congress, this is how you remember it after the elections, after the victory of biden, and europe is divided and it is not may not be able to agree among themselves on some decisive decisive response to russia because it is completely dependent on russian energy carriers and is generally focused on its own benefits and so on. we would certainly not dare to say that this is an illusion for 100%. but nevertheless, this background seemed to him quite favorable for starting this aggression, and accordingly, what you say is absolutely true and it also seems to me that it will find its supporters, but on the other hand, we understand that there will not be a critical number of them, since the same america that seemed to us

divided after the capture of the congress, now we see how united and unwavering it is in supporting ukraine, despite the fact that there is still opposition to this support, so what then then china calculates what it seeks. it seeks to build its alternative system of international relations where it will dominate , although the main slogan is peace, harmony, prosperity and inter-civilizational universalism, i.e. security for all, relations are equal and peaceful for all, but look, if you remove the blocs in the system that currently exists, what china is calling for and everything, then china becomes potentially stronger than any country, stronger than germany, stronger than france, if there is no european union, there are no blocs, there is no nato. europe in front of china cannot do anything with the potential, in fact it is not a competitor of china china will dominate although it will offer the rules of the game today it uses the existing

system and existing tools existing international organizations in order to strengthen its economic potential uses globalization and these production and logistics chains in order to increase its economic potential and then convert it into political and political international influence, and then the task is to move away from this system and already dictate its own rules, which they believe are more universal and more acceptable and what is the difference, they say that the west formed its system based on common interests, and interests are fleeting and change quickly. this leads to conflicts, we suggest forming a system based on values ​​that take longer to form, but to look for common points up to these values ​​and then we get universal cooperation between universal civilizations and no civilization should dominate, that is such a concept in china, although according to its potential china will a priori dominate, he does not

say that it will be the greatest in population by economic power, political influence and so on, that is, i actually have this war on the territory of ukraine as my own proxy war against the west, why i will return to your question, why putin decided to strike right now over ukraine because he saw that a war with ukraine should have dealt the final blow to the western camp of euro-atlanticists after afghanistan when they when the west lost face the second defeat in ukraine the west is losing its hegemony and is actually collapsing these institutions of a unipolar world what putin called for putin china is talking and now let's to build the right what i propose on the basis of values ​​but i think that maybe our viewers will agree with me maybe you don't but china has now become

the golden action in this war which it in fact, it is now trying to sell. everyone understands that if china provides direct military support to russia, it will be very, very difficult for us on the front line, and frankly, it will be very difficult to withstand the onslaught of russian infantry, which will be equipped with chinese military equipment, on the other hand , russia understands that if china bends to the point that russia should be condemned for this war , support sanctions and thus take the side of civilizations, then for russia it will mean the end because even in the matter of purchasing oil and gas there will be no cooperation, there will be no money at all, and china, realizing its dominant position in the fact that everyone wants to attract it to its side , and china is now trying to sell it as expensive as possible based on this initiative , that is why it seems to me that lukashenko has

already run to china and is already praising there is the second day of the idea of ​​a peaceful concept, everyone says it's very cool in its own way lukashenko yes, it's a very wonderful plan , it's just so brilliant, it's so simple, but if you could write something better, i don't know, guys, i could do it, i think he wrote it a freshman at the diplomatic academy, because you and i could sit down and write the same thing for everything and against everything bad . how should it be implemented? disagree with this plan . well, really, you are not for peace, we are also for peace, that action in this war china is creating a lever of pressure on the united states of america . first, it harassed and discredited the united states of america. the war is weakening the west because the potential of the west is weakening. china is not yet at war, it actually does not support russia and

it is building up its potential, that is, equalizing potentials further china will actually be how this lever of pressure will work in the second position if china says if they listen to my peace initiatives well then to even out the balance and demonstrate that this conflict is going nowhere that it can last two years three five i connect my potential and don't ask why i started to help, you rejected my peace offer, you already supplied weapons, i connect in order to equalize the potential and demonstrate that it will not be as you want, that is, he will press to plant us at the negotiating table, and the peace plans, if we evaluate them as a whole, it really comes down to simple peace in exchange for territory , no more, no less, if we discard all diplomacy, peace in exchange for territory , that’s why it was liked. in this regard, both putin and lukashenko

immediately what does it mean to stop the war immediately and sit down at the negotiating table, the third and fourth points, we stop the war, the occupied territory, we start negotiations, and for 200 years, as in the framework of minsk, we discussed nothing , we do not come to anything, because we have different potentials with russia and everyone from the sea will support this for the second war, no one will come to support ukraine, that is, we will be forced to divide part of the territory between north and south korea and give it to the aggressor, thereby encouraging further war, do you think that china will dare to supply russia weapons, military equipment, and so on, because, well, a certain concern is already being expressed in washington by the fact that, well, at least until the spring campaign , certain military equipment , body armor, and so on can be supplied there, but before that, china refrained from this, which may have changed in such a way that china can dare and

still supply weapons and military equipment , because we remember somewhere we have such hope that the united states can still initiate such trade sanctions , such economic sanctions against china, which will simply suffocate without having sea trade , without having certain mechanisms there that can block the united states, and they are afraid of this. do you think that they are so interested in russia after all did not completely lose that they can dare to do such a thing. let's consider how they can develop, well, imagine how the trends of these events can develop now. china has started political and diplomatic maneuvers in order to equalize potentials and still not let russia lose. if it does not succeed to do this through political and diplomatic means, he will then act according to the scenario described in the art of war in sundzi, everything is very simple

, it means first, break the plans of your enemies , the first point of the plan, the second point of the plan will break the alliances that they have created against you and the third, if you have already failed to do the first and second points, enter into a direct confrontation like this. today he is on the first point , he breaks the plans, so to speak, of those with whom he competes, he breaks the plans of the united states and its coalition and the democratic one that supports ukraine to change the situation on the battlefield we will fight for the european union why because china from china's point of view the european union is a weaker bank in euro-atlantic relations china for china is very important relations with europe very important trade relations with the united states america, but the united states of america is united - it is one fist, and here there are separate countries that are united in a union that does not have its own security policy, that is, it is covered by the umbrella of nato. in fact, china has already invested a lot in

trade, it is a manufacturer, and the sales are actually the european market, and it invested there, bought ports, directed investments there, and he earns there, but he earns even more in the united states of america: 765 billion , bilateral trade is 360 billion plus, that is , china earns plus these funds, but they are so connected to the united states as connecting the vessels of about 365 billion, which states actually pay more to china for this money, china buys securities of the united states, that is, returns them to the united states so that there is no imbalance in trade and there are no claims from the united states to china, they are interconnected very strongly and therefore it cannot be said that the united states will reach into the cup, that means they will wave and everything will be, china will simply throw the securities it holds onto the market, and it ranks second after japan

in terms of buying securities in the united states states and everything and the financial crisis on the market of the united states, the crisis with the dollar, which actually provides the currency for the whole world, and we will definitely return to china now, but we already have volodymyr fesenko, a political scientist, on the phone. let's add him to our broadcast, congratulations you, mr. volodymyr, thank you for joining our studio , we began to discuss the fact that on the anniversary of the war , such a competition of peace initiatives began, and immediately after the un general assembly voted a resolution on peace in ukraine based on the formula of president zelenskyi, it immediately came out china with its peace initiatives. please give your assessment of what is going on in this confrontation of peaceful formats , what did china want when it came out with its concept, how will

the zelensky peace formula develop against the background of the fact that china put forward its own vision well, first of all, there is no the standing of peace plans , all the more so there is no opposition between zelenskyi’s formula and chinese initiatives, moreover, it is fundamentally important that china announced its position, there is no non-peace plan , there is no peace plan, there is china’s position in relation to the war between russia and ukraine although earlier it was announced that some initiative of the peace plan is possible , but it happened, let's say , a less resonant event than expected.

and this was done, which is also important, not before the voting of the resolution in the general assembly, and after that, there are many in the west that if china announced its position and formulated a separate draft resolution in the general assembly, then this there was a confrontation, and yes, there is no confrontation, moreover, i drew your attention to the fact that president zelensky formulated a sufficiently flexible position, there are no illusions , there are no illusions in relation to the chinese peace initiatives in kyiv, but at the same time, i think that for us and for the west, it is important that china does not go directly cooperation with russia so that there is no strategic alliance between russia and china, which is opposed to a collective measure, this is the main interest of our western partners now and it corresponds to ukrainian interests, therefore

a sufficiently flexible position in relation to china and by the way, we see, let's say, i think it's purely tactical, slightly different positions of europe and the usa, a tougher position, and europe shows a more flexible position, a more constructive willingness to negotiate, scholz went to beijing, macron is going. well, regarding the topic of arms supplies, i think that it 's not about russia leaks of information, it is not that china is going to supply weapons to russia now, it wants to save russia, let's say, but china does not want the complete defeat of russia because it will weaken china's position in the confrontation with the united

states, but economic and that's what my colleague is talking about i just said and gave a whole bunch of examples that it is economically unprofitable for china to engage in a large-scale geopolitical, especially economic, confrontation with the west because it will hit china's economic interests very powerfully, and this is how the problem arose during the covid-19 epidemic and the strict quarantine, and the consequences of the conflict with the west will be even greater. serious. it seems to me that the leaks of information about weapons that china can supply to russia are such an easy indirect blackmail of the americans , they say that if the united states will actively arm taiwan, then we can supply weapons to russia so here the question is not about russia and not so much about the ukrainian war between russia and ukraine , in which i think china does not want to get involved. it is rather a contradiction around taiwan, where the topic of russia and weapons for russia is used as a tool for clarifying relations between the neighboring

states, mr. volodymyr. how are you? do you think that the united states has enough effective levers to restrain china from something that we all really do not want, namely from providing the russian army with the equipment and weapons that it currently lacks? i think that the main safeguard is the economic interests of china, not the united states, but the economic interests of china, why is china involved in this war now? why, in order to create economic problems for itself ? china if there god forbid something happens and if it happens if sanctions can arise against china, it is not so much in connection with the supply of weapons to russia as in connection with , for example, china's direct military aggression

against taiwan. then the question will arise about sanctions, but we are talking about the supply of weapons, but here it is not about american sanctions. i think that both china and the americans will act very, very carefully in this matter, and if china will help russia , then it will be done unofficially and on a very limited scale. and so that this does not become a reason for sanctions against china, such people, for example, trade with russia and bypass the sanctions regime with russia. yes, but large chinese companies that work in western markets avoid cooperation with russia, and in this sense the situation is more or less balanced, so i think that china will not destroy this balance, the main safeguard against the trade in arms between china and russia or the supply of arms by china to russia, these are

the economic interests of china, you know . so a little skeptical because they do not lead to anything except for the political plane and political declaration. and a week ago , when the un general assembly voted to support the peace formula proposed by our president, everyone voiced the question, well, well support and what's next. please, first decipher the concept of this peace formula, well, its points. we all know what will happen next , how we will act, how to implement it and why it was very important for the un general assembly to support exactly this format of seeking peace in this war, see mir zelenskyi's formula not