[000:00:00;00] the russian federation or the russians have been working on the chinese track very actively, more actively than we have for five years. we can talk about the fact that ukrainian-chinese relations have been in the right direction for more than two years. we have not had a temporary charge of attorney in china, that is why our task is - it is to convey to beijing our point of view, our position and inform them that we have absolutely clear goals in which we will definitely achieve this is our point of view , we must convey it well, it is obvious that if this conversation takes place, it will to convey to volodymyr zelenskyi his point of view and precisely the points of the peace plan that they proposed almost a month ago . not a plan, even

the chinese don’t call it a plan, if you go to the website of the chinese ministry of foreign affairs, you will see that this document and these points are officially called china’s position on political settlements , they call it the ukrainian blueprint, that is even the chinese themselves call the document a plan. it’s one thing that you promoted it when you went to europe, to munich, then to russia, and it wasn’t so much that it was presented as a plan, which proposal, another thing is what they actually published, that is, the chinese recorded it their position and how they see it. they would like this conflict to be settled and they mean that please sit down at the negotiating table and figure out who has any historical claims. and we, if necessary. we are ready to play a constructive role, but under this wording, a constructive role can be understood as anything at all. ukraine has already reacted and explained that this is not considered a plan, that there are a lot of

points that are unacceptable for ukraine. but nevertheless, we do not have to admit that the first point is -e of this document, for example, on territorial integrity, e-e is absolutely accepted for ukraine. so because the chinese under this clause have the territorial integrity and security of internationally recognized borders, that is, in our case from 1991 and well, is this negative for ukraine ? no, no, the russians can of course twist this point and say that well, i'm sorry, territorial integrity, we russians already believe that crimea is part of the russian federation, the annexed territories from the month of september go all our goal tsarevich 78, but not from the point of view of china, has in mind the international recognition of the border. and by the way, the chinese themselves have not recognized the annexation of crimea since the 14th year and the annexation of new territories and have not recognized that is why for the russian federation is also unacceptable here , for example, about nuclear weapons, or the chinese side clearly stated that nuclear

blackmail is not acceptable, there is such an interesting point that the security of one state cannot be achieved by threatening the security of another state, that is, in principle, we we have to explain to the chinese that this point is also about us, including because we understand that russia is a danger to our country and this is one of the many reasons why we aim to join the north atlantic alliance , including russia fears expansion nato to its borders, if it is actually already happening, and that is why it decided to occupy another state in order to eliminate this potential threat, no, that is, there are points that are unacceptable, even for russia, for ukraine, this is in particular about negotiations, because we all now understand that these are not negotiations no one will lead the russian federation

, this will all happen , we will achieve our goals exclusively through military means, so there is still something to explain to the chinese. bad so, when this plan appeared, the position of a-ah, putin's spokesman, dmitry peskov, said that it was not bad, not bad, the truth is, there are still things that need to be worked on, but in general, the perception of this chinese position in russia seemed to me to be like this. yes, it doesn’t seem that naura is really there, as i already said, the point about territorial integrity, trinuclear blackmail is, well, unpleasant for the russians, but there were functions about, for example, unilateral sanctions, that is, china, ah, well, of course, china follows its national interests when it indicates about this point, because he means as many sanctions against the russian federation as sanctions against china, that's why well, this plan, this position is not an idea , including yes, for moscow, that's why he said

that i have something to work on. because there really is this such a very, very balanced, very much through the prism of chinese national interests was, well, frankly, the right position. china is on a stretch because it cannot, er , abandon the russian federation, and the russian federation for security reasons, for economic reasons, for ideological reasons, even though this and having to continue the line of confrontation with the measures taken by the western countries, therefore, from the point of view of how the world sees this war and china, this position and this document was formulated absolutely correctly, moreover , they understood that this document would be unacceptable to anya in kyiv and not to london anya brussels ani in washington ani washington that is why they published it through the ministry of foreign affairs and not like that it happened that all the zimpin came out there personally announced the price of these items 12 items and then we said that no, sorry, it does not

fit, that's why they understood that on the western audience. these points will not work, but what concerns, for example, the states of the global rooster, dancing points have found positive feedback and i actually believe that if something similar was developed in a similar document, for example, in the same brazil , then there would actually be similar points the global south looks at this war more or less similar to china ms. alina, from what you said, i got the impression that china just decided to show itself to the world as a peacemaker who wants to try to help end the russian war in ukraine, but in fact he does not want us to be this peacekeeper, right well, in principle, the fact is that china should have at least somehow reacted already to the anniversary of the war, although there was nothing new in these points, that 's all - those theses and narratives that china promoted during the entire year of the first full-scale registration. the fact is that

china, on the one hand, is not quite successful in the field of peacekeeping, with the exception of the recent recent news about the normalization of relations between saudi arabia and iran and china, as it turned out, was a mediator, but in general there is no experience in china in settling serious conflicts there. china, for example, participates in the six-party talks on north korea, but as we can see, there are forests there now, but at the same time, it has recently started to increase criticism and negative reviews of china as an irresponsible player who stands somewhere far away and observes this conflict but does not take any part in peacekeeping, so china has already decided to react and to show that he is its responsible player and a global player at the level of the united states, but at the same time, as they say that, well, look, we are the only state of the un security council that, well, at least somehow offers at least some peaceful initiatives and at the same time does not take any

direct not even among the forged participation in the conflict, because i am the russian federation , which is directly fighting, there are the states of great britain and france, which help ukraine and, accordingly , indirectly participate in the conflict, and we do not. we are for peace, and we are at least somewhat good luck but nevertheless we are putting forward peaceful initiatives look how good we are still like this this is how it is understood please tell me how strong china is now in order to promote its own conditions in its position and dictate conditions in the world well, i cannot say that china directly they are dictated that is, it was well, really, as a proposal, well, you want to agree, you want to disagree, it’s just our position , it’s our opinion, i’m an artist , that’s how i see it. who are helping ukraine and ukraine who have an absolutely clear position on the settlement of this conflict, and china

cannot boast of the fact that it, with coalitions of other states, can promote some alternative option for regulating the war, so far china is not alone although, as i said, among the countries of the global rooster, this position is perceived quite positively, because many countries in asia and latin america share the opinion that it is necessary to sit down at the negotiating table for example, where did the brazilian president sit, for example, at the beginning of this year, he called to organize the peace club , where did he go, including china and other countries as mediators who are interested in the negotiation process ? the goal of china or to dictate its conditions china offers very politely very diplomatically but but tries not to be aggressive and not to dictate with its historical centuries-old wisdom

ms. alina, please tell me the last question to you, but russia achieved its goal, the world really became multipolar as they wanted in russia, because we have china, you said about brazil, you said about other players , ah, did russia achieve its uh , its idea is patented by russia, and many countries promote such an idea, in particular china is very active , including brazil. that is correct. in a word , it is currently at the stage of forming a new system of international relations, and some experts are of the opinion that in the future the world will be multi-polar and there will be several centers forces because the state is developing and everyone wants to have the appropriate influence to take the appropriate position and not only china and brazil and indonesia and turkey , saudi arabia should go for it, but we can state that in the coming decades the basis of this system will still be a bipolar confrontation than dads and

china slowly to the multipolar court of the multipolar world. i think we will come , but this is not an idea exclusively of the russian federation ms. alina, thank you very, very much for participating in the program. thank you for your professional comments for answers to the questions about the visit of sijinping to russia and what we should expect from this visit, and the visit will last three days, it started today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, and as i understood from the conversation with ms. alina , we should not expect anything very strong, although the most important thing for ukraine is that if there is a meeting between not a meeting, a telephone conversation between sisinfin and volodymyr zelenskyi, volodymyr zelenskyi, to promote his position, to tell what is really happening. well, thank you once again to alina hrytsenko, the head of the national of the institute of strategic studies before introducing the next guest who is already waiting to join the conversation. i want to remind you that you need to vote on

youtube, don't even vote, but answer the question that we asked you, the question is so obvious, what will sisinpin and putin agree on and 63% of those who have already voted for the end of the war think three options for the supply of chinese weapons for the end of the russian war and your option, by the way, for the supply of military weapons , for a total of 28%. well, 300 people have already voted, and now 1,749 people are watching us on a specially created channel of our program. thank you , join and continue. well, i'm ready to introduce the next guest and the next topic . vitaly kulyk, director of the research center - this is a problem of civil society . glory to the heroes of ukraine well, what are we going to talk about with you , my previous

interlocutor has already mentioned this, she mentioned some very strange reconciliation between saudi arabia and iran , which became known at the end of last week and it became known precisely in beijing, the capital of china, some are already calling it a historical reconciliation, obviously it can be so, a number of people have even invited the president of iran , ebrahim raisi, to come to him and in the office of ebrahim raisi, two enemies of two different religions, sometimes not even reconciliation currents extended their hands to each other miss vitaly please tell me what it is , that is, who and what card can be played in this matter, well, let's start with the fact that it is not necessary to exaggerate this particular agreement

, because it is the history of the truce, the break in relations and the restoration of these relations between the er series of integral it has a long enough history er there in the 44th year they came into conflict with each other 66th year er then 91st year 288th year 2016 they broke the thematic relations, and then negotiators appeared , mediators, they always restored diplomatic relations. by the way, i emphasize that the reason for the break in relations between saudi arabia and iran was always religious issues, or they killed a preacher who was there in saudi arabia, or iran committed some act of aggression that considered against the sunids, which was considered by the ukranians as sacrilege, as some act of religious aggression, that is, the reason for the break, or let's say, the reason for the break, were

religious issues, but in fact there are deep contradictions between russia and iran related to the fact that both countries are regional leaders and have their spheres in the tide of the persian gulf . and in general, in the global middle east, their opposition includes syria, lebanon, yemen, and yemen. by the way, there was a direct war between iran and saudi arabia iran supported the hussites, cheshiin rebels who waged a war against the current government of yemen, which in turn was supported by human arabia , iranian drones in the 19th year struck oil refineries in suduv arabia on its territories and military bases, there is evidence that a direct military clash involved units not only proxies, that is, the yemenis, but also the special forces of lutsk arabia against the special forces of iran, the representatives of

the korm corps of the defenders of the islamic revolution , that is, in fact , many contradictions have accumulated between the two countries and confrontation, the tension reached a certain level, these confrontations, but starting from the 21st year, from the year 20-21, the war in the name will receive a certain er hmm delay slips in april 20 er of the first year two 22 of the er between the parties was the poemin ceasefire was signed and it was more or less maintained, but there remained a whole complex of unresolved issues related to bilateral relations with the opposition of trade policies, the influence of iran on bahrain and libya, and the influence of iran on the situation and political crisis in lebanon where also from the audit

have interests, and there was no point that would reduce the tension between the two countries, which was already reaching a new level , entering a direct military confrontation. strikes and drone strikes on objects on the territory of sumy arabia, and arabia talked about this, that preparations were being made by iran at the time and they said that this was a great danger of a major war in the persian gulf. but after that, china took certain diplomatic steps related to the fact that before the visit from the villages to economic arabia, there was a visit of the president of iran to china, they were received quite well in china , many contracts were signed in the closed type, what are the sanctions against iran between china and iran?

e-e oil and oil products for china china china also had a certain offer for e-e sumsk arabia and e-e china succeeded in taking advantage of the weakening of the influence of the united states of the global west on the security space of the greater middle east a-a china took advantage of this and offered his platform to relieve this excessive tension between hunting arabia and iran . what happened in the form of this so-called truce and the agreement on the restoration of diplomatic relations, why did, say, the village of skaravia , iran took these steps on the one hand, especially which was long enough since the withdrawal of british troops from the persian gulf was an ally of the united states supported all security initiatives of the united states was with the main ally

the supplier of oil for the united states states, it acts now in such a game, a sleeping bag acts as a partner of more chinese people of the united states, and the situation is that, uh , between washington and russia, certain lines of separation have also arisen due to the fact that the leadership of the ruling house of the monarchical paradise primarily supports the republicans and has friendly relations with trump and his family , in particular, trump's son, the crown prince has a good relationship, and bide, on the contrary, is seen as an opponent to whom the attitude is rather difficult, the two leaders have developed a difficult relationship, let me remind you that during the election campaign biden was criticized to the hilt and even called for the downgrading of diplomatic relations, although in fact, the contradictions accumulated long ago, starting with biden in 2015, with the well-known publication of biden's statement that servant arabia

receives too much aid and does not provide adequate support for peace and stability in the region. by the way, then biden agreed to a nuclear agreement with the morning, which worried saudi arabia, and then , accordingly, problems began , internally politically slippery raya's attachment to the breeding of the opposition massacre of dissidents. and by the way, the murder of a journalist in turkey by representatives of the embassy of slavic arabia became the reason for harsh criticism from biden , and er, it caused a sharp negative reaction from er, and you, and these problems accumulated accumulated every year they did not decide if biden made a trip to elyriad and met with the following principle, although they did not shake each other's hands, but the result will be one of

the most difficult trips for biden to other countries without any added value from such a diplomatic visit, such official negotiability, the trip from these ramparts was absolutely accompanied by a huge reception, declarative loyalty, absolutely eh hmm let's say so, the creation of eh green street before the eh laying of various cultural, political, economic and other ot between russia and beijing on the other hand is quite cold reception of biden in sadovsky paradise please tell me, mr. vitaliy well, after all that you have already reported, can official beijing use all its well, without knowing the victory, a victory is possible in the fact that later

it can somehow be presented during possible peace-making steps to end the war in ukraine well, first of all , let's say that the restoration of diplomatic relations between the two countries is not yet the removal of all the contradiction is, firstly, secondly, deep contradictions between the countries. they are so deep that it is not necessary to talk about the complete appeasement of saudi arabia, the leader of the sudden world, and iran from the rashid world, which have insurmountable ideological contradictions, so far we are talking about restoration of diplomatic relations just as it was, say, after 1991 or after 1988 between the countries, no more like this. this affected other partners of iran and saudi arabia in the region, in particular, about the restoration of diplomatic relations between iran

and the land occupied by bahrain. and this is an ally saudi arabia, the closest to this, also reacted positively to this, let's say the maldives announced that they broke off relations with libya , the official government of libya announced that it is resuming contacts with libya, and it hopes to resume dialogue lebanon also hopes, thanks to the fact that iran supports the sbu and is the provocateur of the main government crisis in this country, the morning leadership is interested in the restoration of vkontakte hunting arabia of the tyrant, that is, certain achievements to show that this is a whole case that can be used in the media, so it is obvious that china will manipulate this and talk about it this is a successful story and what can be imposed because there is ectoregulation on the situation in ukraine, but when china is the mediator between iran and judicial arabia, he did not follow the path of a-a

proposal of the other side, a known loser option, he bought the loyalty of the two parties, offered some joint projects that became such a catalyst for the agreement of the parties, we have a rapprochement, at least on this issue, the parties were ready for new meetings at the main stage, the only question was when and how and the circumstances of this rapprochement, the restoration of patriotic relations, i.e. the name war was won, the situation with tension needed some way out, they would have come up with the idea of ​​restoring relations, but popovych's chinese and even under this money, respectively , the parties agreed on this, china was equal distanced from the two sides, he did not support either the situation with the ukrainian case, it is obvious that china supports russia, not militarily, not supporting the official aggression against ukraine , but china’s actions in the situation, and even

the proposal of a plan from us, those points that were voiced by china on the ukrainian gb on the russian-ukrainian war shows that china plays along with russia and does not act as an effective mediator who is equidistant from the parties to the conflict, this is the first thing it consists of, for example, to remove the sanctions pressure from russia to stop shooting without the withdrawal of russian troops from our territory without the withdrawal of troops from the occupied and annexed territories without recognition of who is the aggressor and who is the victim and this is all present in these nasti points . as a victim of ukraine, there is no question of the withdrawal of russian troops from the territory of ukraine as a condition for the peace negotiation process, respectively, china

will play along with russia. therefore , this is not an extrapolation of the experience between iran. peacemaker well, it is clear, well, to play the card of a peacemaker, taking into account his many years of experience and history , mr. vitaly, please tell me, in this situation, i mean reconciliation, rapprochement, restoration of diplomatic relations between saudi arabia and iran. and in what situation is israel now? let's put it this way, if we are talking about the position of tel-aviv, then it cannot but cause certain concerns in israel , because the rapprochement of iran means that relations are actually being built and

it is getting a second economic wind from china early. it is created and early receives technologies that are dangerous technologies for israel, in particular, this is rocket construction, this is football, this construction is this, it is an opportunity to build the same drones with the help and rockets with the help of chinese chips, respectively, this is uh, there is a danger of a court from arabia, israel had such uh due to lack of time 10 minutes seconds 40 please answer of course he will answer i think that we will witness more than one military operation on military objects, for example drone factories in iran, it is obvious that this should provoke push him to cooperate with the united states and israel will demand a new security policy on the part of washington, participation, modernization, strengthening of the military , and this will also push him to interact with ukraine, in particular, about the same licenses for the production of protein defenses, and maybe over time even transfer to military duty of military equipment. who is interested in this?

vitaly, well, and the last question for you on youtube . we asked our viewers today such a question. is coming as you know and you know this very well to moscow to meet at 3:30 p.m. with the president of the aggressor country vladimir putin that's why we in e on youtube asked the audience questions and three in what they can agree on cd-in-pin and with putin the three of us options for answers eh gave the first about the supply of chinese weapons, the second about ending the russian war and your option so if you how would you answer this question i think that this visit is about the fact that russia has a servant to go in the formatter of chinese interests i do not think that the question will be terminated war immediately on certain conditions, uh, china is interested. unfortunately, from my point of view, i am interested in the war continuing , but with little intensity, or reducing

the intensity of the war, about some negotiating points where the process of the deceased would begin, for example , he can speak in full chinese. according to your answer, that is, russia is in the fairway of china and not china in the fairway of russia, of course because putin does not have any alliance relations with the middle ground, he does not give any obligations, and on the other hand, china has a powerful economy the power of the armed forces is the influence of china on the global game, and russia at this time is good because of sanctions because of the war because of being involved in these processes, becoming a country and an outcast, therefore china acts as a patron here and putin acts as a client . thank you, mr. vitaly, for participating in my program. thank you very much for your specialists and specialist answers as usual eh. it was vitaly kulyk , the director of the center for the study of civil society problems. well, i will finish this program slowly . today we had eh three topics at once. three guests

first talked about eh protests which shook france during the past three days, and the protests were still serious in paris, they burned cars, uh, threw stones at store windows, tens of thousands of people gathered, well, as we can see, they want to get the french government to cancel the pension, not to accept , not to approve the pension reform, the second topic - this is jinping's visit to russia, a very important topic for us. well, what is happening in the middle east? the guests in the department answered my questions. finally, i just want to thank everyone who watched us today, both on the air and on the air. and on youtube now about youtube we asked you a question about what was agreed to be agreed january stump with putin three options for the answer about the supply of chinese weapons 65% think about the end of the russian war 26% think well and your option nine percent well, what 's left to wait i think not much, since all the calls came only for three days