[000:00:00;00] at the same time, i didn't just say that the russia of the future is for the one that would not pose a threat to ukraine, in particular, to its neighbors , and to ukraine in particular, whatever it might be without collapsing as you say or transforming, well, first of all, i want to say that you should be afraid of your desires and you should be guided how should one be guided by emotions and emotions, and now i believe that ukrainian society is, of course, because of the war , because of the losses, because of all these horrors that we observe every day, of course, they are mostly governed by these emotions, but you are our patriots

it is necessary to think about what will happen in the end from the point of view of benefits for ukraine, what will be necessary so that russia can never attack again, secondly, reparations are needed for the restoration of ukraine if the scenario of disintegration is implemented. and i agree with mr. volodymyr that this disintegration can happen as the result of the civil war. what if the sources of civil war are not there? if destabilization begins due to any reason , then the regional elite can think, ok, there. well, if there is less, let's keep what we already have and to separate eh but but no no no not on the contrary yes, about reparations , who will pay them, well, if you believe marko feygin, then reparations can be divided divided in percentages if, well, percentages, percentages between eh, this is such a plan well, i just imagine myself, i

answer to quotes tatarstan yes, that is, we did not start this, we had no influence on this decision, we lost the largest percentage of our residents in this war, when there is a muscovite at home , why should we pay for this, well, this is simply incredible, the improbability of this rav at zero simply zero okay, it is accepted from the point of view uh of the future. well, we need to understand that ukraine will be the winner of ukraine. that is, the administration will transition to an administration that will be built in russia. it will be built under the leadership of ukraine. if we don't do it, it will be done by the united states , great britain and all the others. but someone will do it. because there will be a military defeat and , of course, there will be no occupation villages

inside russia, but there will be someone who will be gathered from the side of ukraine or the united states, there will be a collective action that will to manage the country that is why we need to set the task of what needs to be done so that it can be more dispersed to attack, so that it is transformed into a safe and modern one, well, first of all, this is decentralization, this is, well, i think that this is the main thing, demilitarization, uh, and where is denuclearization, well, these are the main three the conditions on which we need to press, that is, this nuclear club must be taken away from the kremlin . well, of course, the importance of attacking must be well .

how can it exist and how will it be arranged well, let's give russia a large bloc russia must fill it with real content yes this is a question already yes and before let's say so the administration of the transition period if it is considered yes and until the local years themselves i think that the conditions will only appear the conditions for such an opportunity should be stimulated so that they take it as it is, the son said take this orientation as much as it takes, from the int of his phrase from the 90s, so that they take more sovereignty for themselves so that the process begins this federalization from below not only from the mountain but also from below but here we have a very big difference in attitude, because i believe that it was yellson's approach, take sovereignty, that was bad, because he, as a king, granted sovereignty to the region, and as he granted it, it is possible

and necessary to collect it, on the contrary it is necessary for the regions to gather and create a new center, therefore i believe that the russian federation as a country should cease to exist simply from the bottom from the bottom from the bottom. that is, it should not be an agreement between the center and the regions, but regionov one among others with the creation of a new center and therefore i started the reform at the municipal level, and this is a transition period . we imagine ourselves there at the congress of people's deputies . it will be two years. the first year will be municipal elections created by municipal self-government bodies. then there will be a new constitution and this new constitution is a new federal e-e of the football federation. this is how the formation of local self-government bodies comes from. where does the new constitution come

from ? this is how it is written . where do i come from? already regions because communities are separated from the region, this is local self-government, and do you remember that now the elites are the elites , the regional elites, which are appointed absolutely , so it will take some time for all these national movements there, regionalists, regionalists , some political movements er, they transformed a new regional government and this can be done only if they have a mandate that they receive in local elections, so first a place in this scheme will be allocated to the battalion of free russia, and this is demilitarization - this is demilitarization who

should do this and the whole law enforcement system, who should do this, the panel looks attractive, but let me remind you of something, we have already seen it, and even i remember. although i was there, nevertheless , democratic processes in russia, we saw the euphoria on in the west we saw it and we all heard it, which means it was wonderful, which means he was a chench in the performance of the scorpions group, which played there, i don’t know, from all the loudspeakers , it means when the berlin wall fell there . in trifles, what trifles should not be allowed right now it is necessary to write all the new legislation write who is going well we are now writing this at the congress of people's deputies we are supported by ukraine because there are many people in ukraine in the ukrainian government who

understand what it should be done and who are working over the fact that russia would not be an aggressor country, but a country because it will collapse. well, it will happen without us, well, it will simply happen. and how will it not collapse? and if there is a new government, then let's project what this vla can be, let's project this is a new e-e legislation let's make it together uhu and therefore we will understand exactly what will happen all the following years because modern russian legislation is based on the constitution of 1993, which, as we remember, would have been e-e obtained after the shooting of the white house, that is, the ex-parliament of the russian federation, that is, because of the mutiny after the point yes, and that is very bad. it was supported by all other countries, but what

other government do you want to build if it started they built what they wanted with blood and for a new one, but now it is necessary to do it differently and this is our common cause , i emphasize this once again and who will replace putin, and there will be no one in putin's place because we are destroying the office of the president it will be a real parliamentary republic of mr. volodymyr ugu. do you think that ukrainians will agree to such proposals for such a vision, or are our people ready now, if so, ok, is our society ready, and so is our state? how about building new relations with such a new russia and what needs to happen for us to trust again, well, at least not distrust , if you understand, well, i repeat my thesis once again, we need to be ready for different scenarios, yes, and this is the price of the scenario. i would say it

is so close to the optimal one, yes, and that's why it is necessary to keep in contact with various layers of the russian opposition and eh let's say keep your finger on the pulse and it is possible to influence some processes eh and that's why i agree. which suits and ukraine and, let's say, other centers of influence, because today, well, let's say, we know that let's say, the west, just like in 1991. even now, he is not very interested in the disintegration of russia itself because of the fact that there are problems with nuclear weapons, so what now is it better to have one entity that controls nuclear weapons than there will be a spontaneous process of disintegration and it is not known that there will be a normal line with these nuclear weapons, there is china that will influence

the processes yes and uh this should also be taken into account, so it is really necessary to proceed from such models that will suit us and not only us. yes, so that they suit the international community, in particular, and our western partners, and it is necessary, i think that special attention should be paid to the transition period, because that is when the prerequisites for how russia will be laid further development is what i see as the risks here. it is not about what model is attractive for us, but it has been outlined , but democracy. you mentioned what happened to russian democracy, but now the scenario is being discussed even in the russian the opposition, let's assume that after a certain time there are elections, democratic elections in russia, and in these elections, as in the 90s , the communists were the leaders, yes, yes, in these elections, yes, and zhirinov, modernity

, see you next year, zhirynovsky, yes, i remember yatayu this is a memorized phrase, russia is fooled, yes, yes, yes, when did he say that, yes, koryakin, yes, a famous russian writer, yes, an intellectual and a democrat, yes, he could not believe it. and what could have happened, and then the communists , the communists also appeared and here revenge on the part of putin's forces and a lot of voters part of the voters well, what is called the weimar syndrome in the event of a defeat, the problems are social and economic and so on , yes, the longing for strong power, which used to be for scraps. %. supporters of the opposition are also 15-20%, the truth is that a lot of people left, these people will return, but the bulk of them are swamps, that's the same as

they said back then during the times of perestroika , the majority is aggressively obedient, that's what to do with them, yes, they can be loyal, er, for a certain time it is important to the new government that this is why i say that the scenario of disintegration seems attractive, but god forbid if this disintegration is spontaneous , because manifestations of internal war can affect us and create problems for us, therefore it is important that these transitional processes are sufficiently managed and here we need to think about the fact that, even through democratic mechanisms, there will be no revenge of these post-putin forces, or imperial forces , because the risk is such that there are enough passport forces, it can look like this, apart from all

relatively speaking, the players that we have listed, we would not if we did not pay attention again to one very powerful player. and this is the former soviet special services, which normally absolutely survived the yeltsin times, waited for time and brought out their attitude. well, how official is it? maybe you know some other secret there, but the official version is how to overcome the power of these secret special services that seem to be. well, if not all powerful on the territory of russia, then at least very powerful animomighty , but they are not as powerful as ours now the attitude of the outside of the russian federation, they are powerful now because they are pumped with money and supported by the government, but no, they formed the government, the government formed them. they were not destroyed in 1991, and it was very bad because we need

this is of course a mistake, we need a lustration, we need to publish a list of all these agents who cooperated with the special services in a political sense, so absolutely, and we will do this , and this lustration will be very broad. there are approximately 1.5-2 million people, that is, they fall under another family yes, this is militarization , decentralization, democratization, illustration, this is this, it is not. the goal is a tool, this is a tool, it is simple, and even from my point of view, this is such a national compromise. that is, we tell people that we we don't punish you, that is, we put you in prison, but we separate you from any government affairs , from any public activity, and this

even applies to propagandizing this war. some meanings you just said that we are not punishing you, and i mentioned such a thing, and what will happen to those people who deserve to be punished, for example, to those war criminals who go to the international tribunal, that all buryats who raped anything, well, commanders, well, even in at the nuremberg tribunal, how many people were convicted there, several hundred, well, sociun people, well, in our case , it could be a thousand people, but, well, even technically, they will not be able to, uh, the russian government or the new russia must guarantee justice for by these people of course 100%. by the way, we and ours can punish the judicial system, especially ordinary criminals

, for those people who made the decisions , international justice is needed. this is simply a matter of justice in a broad context. yes, this punishment is for aggression and for those people who gave orders. for radivyl criminals i think that even a ukrainian right-hand machine can do this, and yes. and there is nothing in the way. by the way, i have heard such an opinion from western lawyers, but in relation to violations, i also want to say about the special services, well, you understand when we we model the situation, you can refer to historical experience, in particular, and russian experience, as it was before in difficult eras, when water was the personification of power, and that’s where stalin dies . according to this logic, then the winner should be beria yes, but they united in

a language that is not directly in the landing yes, why, and i say about this that at first i think it is very good that this discussion is going to the russian opposition, there must really be a transitional period when even elite who is in power now, but who understand that russia is simply in a mess in a dead end. we need to get out of this . yes , they should form some kind of collective leadership. they will begin to lead russia away from the current problems, such a conditional, soft, possible, not direct, but where is putinization? and the next step. it is very important. this is the election. yes, or. this is already a transitional period before the formation of a new political system. and here is the russian opposition that should return. it should have its say and influence those people who can be

the ones after putin, and i think that, after all, i don't believe in the scenario. when will it happen, you know the new regime of the special services. they won't be able to to rule russia is normal now, if only conditionally there were no violina and there are some other people in the russian government, would putin himself or patrushev be able to ensure the let's say yes, the regime is stable . i am developing very strongly. kdb in the soviet union on the territory of ukraine was much stronger than in russia , and we had putin and all these special services appeared , you would have medvedchuk and you would have all this , all the same uh, but there is no medvedchuk and everything goes the one in a different way so i didn't exaggerate this factor and by the way i apologize yes but i 'm just talking about this topic yes people in the special services can be different yes er yevgen kyrylovych

er marchuk the late yes he was also a member of the kdb yes but together with kravchuk, then together with kuchem, he in principle ensured a normal peaceful transition ukraine to independence to the sovereignty of the new structure, well, belonging to the former db or to some current special services is not yet a verdict. yes, what kind of worldview does a person need, does he aspire to real changes or does he want to reproduce the same regime that is now in russia, gentlemen we have literally 5 minutes of air time left , but it seems to me that it is enough for one meaning . just these minutes when you and i are talking. somewhere far away in moscow, the goods are all uh-huh, that means comrades in law, and that means

this part, and so on, and i mean that, for example, china is not uh-huh, it’s not a big big revelation there. that china in principle suits him putin they know it's putin you can negotiate with him or not negotiate in any case here and there the switch handle , which one can be controlled or there, uh, i don't know, can't control, from which you can get something, it's known and the expected situation for china and for the chinese is important for the chinese mentality for chinese politics, would china be okay with a radical change of power and in general the structure of russia, well, the collapse of russia, of course , the main beneficiary of the collapse of russia would be china itself, and precisely and precisely for this reason , the united states is categorically against the collapse of russia, this is not

only uh-uh, because there we are talking about nuclear weapons and everything else. and they are not interested in strengthening china, and they believe that this is a more important priority for them than even the victory of ukraine in this russia. the acquisitions of china will invade china and that is why i believe that it is necessary to have such a well-informed strategic plan of the future of russia for ukraine, it is very important for the victory precisely because we are restraining it, restraining the supply of weapons to ukraine because the united states is afraid of the eventual final final final victory of ukraine that this process may be insufficiently managed and china will take the initiative so i added, you know, an interesting historical parallel, if we say yes

, china is interested in something, yes, they are formally not interested in the collapse of russia, but if a spontaneous disintegration begins, yes, the fall of the regime, but you understand, china will act according to circumstances. and here i will recall an interesting historical parallel. a few months before the collapse of the soviet union and before the putsch in august 1991 , the then chinese leader came to moscow to meet with gorbachev, if i am not mistaken . months ago, the soviet union did not exist. yes, well, china was in a different state , so that it was not the same, and so on. but nevertheless, china accepted a new, accepted a new reality. to its opposition by the united states a-a but er-e, depending on the situation, china will

change the strategy and tactics of its actions, and we also have to take this into account. that but to create something like a degenerate lpr there yes so such puppets er-e quasi-held so china also needs to be amended a-a but so that it really corresponds to the interests of the stability of democracy yes and e is acceptable for us as fuel for the future i thank you very much for the conversation, in fact, we were planning a conversation about how russia will collapse, but you seem to have put forward both quite reasonable arguments in favor of the fact that it is not a collapse, but if the transformation is radical, but the transformation of russia, including in the interests of ukraine, and well, our viewers can judge that for them, which option is closer, but in any case, thank you for talking about it , i think it is important. i think that today we had volodymyr fesenko , a political expert, and ilya

ponomaryev as guests. news continues my name is oleksiy fadeev and continue to watch the marathon and help the armed forces of ukraine defend your own beat fight revenge because war is revenge for mariupol and bucha for the dnipro and stanislavskii kruchi for the ayu-dag and every latticed roof for every scar foreign ministry of internal affairs of ukraine is forming special brigades of the national guard of the state border

service and the national police, these are elite combat units equipped with the latest equipment and technologies that will return ukraine its lands, eight brigades - one goal finally destroy the enemy with honor and no regrets until the last battle, join the ranks of the guards, it's time to return my own, i'm a father, i'm a younger brother for vadim minibus , i'm getting married soon, i'm panas shakhtar, the head of the sales department, i'm a foreman, i'm a programmer, i'm a witness at

yura's wedding, i'm a physical education teacher, i'm a geologist student your dima, i am a better friend from school , i am a neighbor who always knocks on the battery, i am the only

son

. good evening, we are with ukraine

. good evening. we are from ukraine , our weapon is the truth . congratulations. on the front line of the information front, our people overcome adversity, united news together, we are