[000:00:00;00] needles but we want to start all over again and the west should have said so because we withdrew all our soldiers from ukraine and then russia had a chance to become a sovereign country because it could maneuver between the chinese and the west. i think that putin is actually burying the russian sovereignty and the longer he fights in ukraine, the worse it is for russia itself. you have already said that putin is a bad geopolitician, but what was the biggest mistake he made when he first thought about starting a full-scale invasion of ukraine and then when he decided to do it. we are now in lviv in the world. we are in the village of austria . robert musel was one of the great austrian writers. he wrote the book a man without attributes. a wonderful character in this book is an italian diplomat who says in diplomacy

, never do what you want to do. if you feel that you want to do something, don't do it, just don't do it, don't do it now, there is something about putin in ukraine that he used to be the most balanced person and better understood what could happen, what the consequences of his actions will be with age after reading bad i think that the invasion of ukraine was what he wanted to do in this way he violated the basic rule of international politics do not do what you want to do i think that he wanted to invade ukraine and it will be a disaster for the whole of russia and will also destroy his reputation. if he had done something else , he would have been remembered in a completely different way. and this last year will surely etch putin in

history, but isn't his reputation already destroyed, you know. everything could be even worse, right? i can tell the russian leaders what to do, in the end i don't know, no one knows what people close to putin think about this. but with every day he is in power , the situation is getting worse, i don't think we can change it, someone else has to do it , maybe one day someone will be able to let's talk about the ukraine of the future, the future after the war, after our joint victory with allies and partners, what kind of country do you think ukraine could become, this is a great question, let's consider the positive points in ukraine during the war, well, first of all, this is civil society and horizontal cooperation, this is what you should continue

because it is a way for citizens to believe in themselves that they can do something for a free ukraine - it is very important that they do not believe that they can implement changes, that they are not helpless, that they are not paranoid, they do not believe in conspiracy theories, they can act themselves and this is very good, another very important point - these are successful elections even during the war, and this is regardless of the personalities of poroshenko and zelensky. it is very important that we poroshenko lost and zelensky won you had a change of power during the war and this is all very well in terms of what we should worry about in the future so this is how to rebuild ukraine and the danger for you is that we give too much money to one person we don't we should do this, america, the west, and so on, we should find all these hundreds of non-governmental organizations to help them, we should cooperate with all regions, with all cities and towns , helping them is not a matter of ukraine, but of

the fact that, as history shows, it is worth doing decentralized we do not want ukraine to find itself in a situation where the central government suddenly if we manage to do this, i can already see and visualize a ukraine that will be better than ukraine in 2021 with better public transport, better city squares, better kharkiv, although i really like kharkiv with modern cities by roads , this can be achieved if the reconstruction is carried out correctly, and europe needs ukraine. i mean that getting out of the influence of the russian empire is an opportunity to become ukraine, but also to be with all other countries and europe they need you because they need a project, they need a story about themselves, a new, fresh story , their story about themselves is connected with 1945

, but they need a newer story, they need success, which they can call their success, and this success should be post-war ukraine, become ukraine, this great mr. snyder my last question for you today is what will be the historical responsibility of russia not putin but russia for everything it did during the war this is a great question because i think responsibility is a key term in international politics and this is connected with what you said about the law , maybe we want putin to be arrested, but it is important for us to say that you are responsible, we believe that you are responsible for everything we believe in responsibility, but one of russia's problems is a whole the culture of impunity, they do something bad and then something even worse , and so they stop believing in these rules and

we will not be punished, of course in every country a person tries to break the rules, but that's another matter if we say that there are no rules that nothing matters and this is exactly the situation russia is in. therefore, firstly, it is very important that russian assets are used for the restoration of ukraine, and for this we need to find a way. and secondly, from the point of view of historical responsibility, and i am not saying now as a historian, people should to think about how russian history was written, how we all thought about russification, that one of the reasons for this war was that many of us believed for too long a certain story about what was russia really like when russia invaded ukraine before we understood that the story about russia that we believe does not allow us to understand some other historical realities. ukraine is one of these historical realities, so historical

responsibility is also our own responsibility for the reconstruction of european history or the history of the west in such a way that ukraine fits into it and the most interesting thing is that european western history will become much more interesting and make much more sense because of this. i don't want to talk only about the russians. there are things that we should also do , but then people should be judged. long boring trials in which people are found guilty and then it will be possible to talk about relations with the russians mainly instead of outs i took we all have a common problem we look at history and say that we have always been innocent that we have never done anything wrong the americans can say that, too, russia shows us what happens when you push yourself to the extreme in this regard. how do you put yourself in putin's putination is that russians

are always innocent, you are always someone else's fault there were always germans, austrians, jews , brussels, berlin , washington, it was always someone else, eh. in order for the renewal of russia to take place, they will have to admit that there is a concept of historical responsibility, i say this because the word responsibility is very ugh, but we cannot force someone to be responsible, we can try to hold others accountable to say that there is a law and you you no we have a lot of money we can do it with russia but in the end the responsibility is also something internal something that needs to be felt we can't do it instead of russia but we can for ourselves so thank you very much mr. snyder thank you for agreeing to talk that

answered my questions and shared their thoughts about the past, the future and our victory. thank you very much. well, it was timothy snyder , a professor of history at lille university . we talked with him obviously about ukraine, about russia , about the past, about the future, and obviously about victory, see you, we continue our broadcast on the espresso channel and shchycherenda igrana valevska speaks 10:38 am we thank our colleague yuri fizor for a very interesting and meaningful interview with timothy snyder, you can watch it on youtube search, find and watch when you have time if we suddenly caught only a piece of the important well, we are moving on and we will remind you that we are asking you to help us in the next meeting . our defenders

of the company named after noman are very urgently in need of cars - this is part of the 251st battalion of the 241st brigade. a car is needed to carry out combat missions in bakhmut well, unfortunately, it is very hot there in the conditions of constant hostilities, cars do not last long to move without them well, we understand that it is simply impossible, therefore we need to collect uah 500 well, most of it has already been collected, so please, anyone who has the opportunity to join or who hasn't made it yet we invite you please dmytro shatuzhanskyi should join our broadcast director of the institute of central european strategy founder of the rupin ukraine project we will talk about hungary in particular about its position the leader petersiarto of the ministry of foreign affairs of this country, odious, stated that budapest's call to stop hostilities in ukraine and start peace negotiations does not mean that moscow

will receive all the ukrainian territories it occupied before. aceta siyarto know that stopping the war and sitting down at the negotiating table does not mean that you accept the existing status quo - said the minister, when the war ends and peace negotiations begin, it is not necessary that the borders will be fixed where the line passes of the front, we know this from our own history, the ceasefire must come already now, the minister of foreign affairs of hungary said, using the ukrainian proverb, my grandfather myshko loved him very much, the deceased said to bend down, hrytsko, it's a lie , but that's me when you read it for some reason i remembered that grandfather is folk wisdom. i remembered ukrainian folk wisdom and my grandfather

. well, then about the international topic, the continuation of the topic. well, not the topic of another topic, but also the reaction of various international structures to what is happening. we already talked about what happened yesterday. the farewell tour of the moscow uoc, not the moscow patriarchate, in the kyiv-pechersk lavra, by the way, i also remembered when we were reading it, they showed about well, like what probably didn’t happen when the moscow olympics and when you can see he flew away, they sang to him to i think laskovy mesto where the fairytale forest, by the way, i watched were specially taken to the familiar parents who had a color tv and we watched it on a color tv, this is to say goodbye to the bear, who on the 28th, yes, that is, tomorrow, should fly out of the lavra and the lavra should return to of the people's property and do you know what i mentioned about i mentioned about the 80th year in which year the soviet union began to produce industrial

toilet paper, you know what you think, i was just thinking that you can imagine how many years of ukraine's independence in the very heart of ukraine, the capital of ukraine, we had these moscow popes whom we just saw in cassocks on their mercedes lexus, well, really, who has been to the lavra knows that when you enter there are cars from the class and these are all cars driven by some of these scumbags who introduced themselves as governors there god on earth is actually, well, they are, in fact, according to the russian doctrine, the church is subordinate to the kremlin. and this is a representation of the moscow church and the type no one will understand , and we are not with moscow, we are not here at all, but still, do you know about the life of the soviet people in what year for the first time in the union, they made a toilet apartment, but you won’t believe the year 67.

in 67, people flew into space and landed on the moon as satellites . from 200 because the neighbor knocks and these horrors will come. it's good that that country has sunk into oblivion, and thank you, lord, that the ukrainian church is finally returning to our lavra . dmytro tuzhanskyi joins us. there are some e-e statements happening, in principle, not new narratives , but here are the latest statements. the prime minister of hungary, hergei gouyash, said that despite the arrest warrant for russian president putin issued by the international criminal court in hungary, he will not

be arrested if he suddenly comes there, as there will be no legal basis for this , this is absurd, he is another budapest absurdist. orbán is hitting hungary. i think the consequences are not just some kind of media scandal, but we will see what will result in concrete actions . it's like the visit of petro sirtu to belarus. you know, for the past six months, that is, hungary, she has apologized for such a comparison, you know, she is handsome and cute and a european raccoon. but what type does garmider do every time with nadia that he will be fine if he is hugged and stroked there?

orbany, hungary drove itself into this position, what is their logic and motivation, and they obviously do not see this as a problem, that is, it is gas, oil , they are afraid that putin is crazy and will cut off their gas, as putin did with bulgaria, with its beloved pro-russian bulgaria, is historically there. of course, bulgaria is clearly a part of the russian world many times more than hungary in the eyes of the russians, and they cut off their gas, so orban is afraid of this, and not just of losing gas, like profitable contracts, losing profitable contracts for gas and oil, mykhailo, this moment is not specific , but within a year it means the beginning of the collapse of the orban regime. therefore, this is a trap into which viktor orban drove himself. and he has to keep saying these absurd things, well, not him

personally, his team and uh, if it were to suffer blow after blow, this reputation is institutional, that is, within the european union and so on, technologically, you know, for the hungarian side, they don’t see it. obviously, this is not a problem in this statement, and when they had elections in march -april last year, i worked there as an election observer and , unfortunately, they have a lot of uh. well, what about these international obligations. this is how they interpret them, how they interpret them, they say yes, we signed this convention charter there and so on and so forth similar but oops fulfill them we can't it is not integrated into the national legislation there they are trying to play the same game it seems to me that this time it was actually said by giorgii guyash at this briefing he said that he said it was this rome statute if i am not mistaken and the norms these international these things are not integrated into the hungarian legislation, well, you know, from what we analyzed during the elections there, even some basic things are not carried out under the guise that

there are some international obligations , non-integrated obligations of the law, this in fact, such a systemic crisis of the state institutions of the state, well, the national legislation, that is, there, to be honest, you know how optimistic i was that before that they said , well, how is it, uh, well, eu country legislation , all this must correspond to each other, that's what we 're dealing with now, when we this is ukraine , aka communiqués, we are checking that every ukrainian legislative act must match the european one, and if hungary is there, then it is there. it seems that everything matches , everything should work, and it turned out that you know what it is rabbit hole, that is, after looking there, you think that it is an abyss and there is still work . well, it seems to me that it is no less than er ukraine from the point of view of the adaptation or implementation of european legislation in the hungarian language , or as reputable as it er will

appear, well, there will be losses in why then they will suffer, well, these will be sanctions from the eu countries inside the country, these will be sanctions at the elections of the orban regime , what will this blow be as a consequence? look, these are political consequences, these are political consequences . it seems to me that victor robert is preparing for them. well, let's look, let's look to find the question here that europeans, after all, they are people with patience and people with understanding that hungary is part of the alliance and all this unity is needed. and here is such a turban went to this summit in brussels if they were talking there, but i don’t rule it out, you know what it’s about, it’s such an eternal game there, for example, they asked him that you’re not going to arrest putin and in romance chestnuts, well, listen back and forth it’s mine, there gergel got something mixed up

, he didn’t understand that way that's why this is it this is a question of reputational losses, well, how did it manifest itself before? yes, after the elections there on april 3, 2022, victor roban won there with fantastic support . there are no questions before his victory, but there in the next one. they become the most active from the point of view of international contacts after the election. look at teterpaul. yes, what international activity he has. viktoromanov. no one wanted to meet there , the only thing was that he was accepted by pope francis. the last thing we had in 2020 was the 23rd year, it was a meeting with scholz, after which there was not even a joint press conference . that is, it was a long conversation, and tet, there are even

legends about it, but it was definitely tough, then viktor orbán succeeded if so to ask, so to speak, but not so long ago he had a meeting with macron. well, let's see what will happen after this statement, bilaterally, apart from these so-called general general summits, for example , the polish leaders, neither the president nor the prime minister, between hungary and poland, they are the last ones. of course russian. it was the strongest alliance in the history of these two countries. it seems to me that they are modern and one of the strongest alliances in general in europe, and they do not meet bilaterally for the poles. after this statement about the international criminal court , i will look. well, i am sure that the poles will meet they won't be. so, please explain to me the position of hungary. it's only about money, about energy dependence on

moscow, well, in the burning of resources . are there any other moments in this sympathy? look at the million-dollar question. i don't know. in principle, given the information i possess, i can more or less explain the rationality, which often looks like the irrationality of the actions of the hungarian side, but there are actions that, especially when we put everything into context, that is, why is hungary still after the russian invasion , after all the atrocities and all the actions of putin and well, putin's position continues to speak and act as if it is absurd here. well, how to explain it, you can explain it, of course, it can be explained in stubbornness there, er, some short-sightedness, a lack of understanding of situations . hungarians do not understand ukrainian very well

the situation, that is, they have analytics, well, it is weak. but again, here , the rabbit hole is very deep, which i spoke about in the context of hungarian legislation , its compliance with european norms, uh, this is a big question, this rabbit hole, regarding hungarian-russian relations, to what extent is it deep or is it filled only with gas and oil or is there something else well, but uh, about football, i love football and politics, we talked about orbán and about his scarf, where he came to the dressing room of his national team with a large map of the so-called hungary greeted there are footballers with a win or a draw, in my opinion, so the hungarian football association reported on its website that uefa has apparently decided not to prohibit hungarian fans from using symbols with the borders of the so-called great hungary and during matches that will be held under the auspices of uefa, we are talking about the map with the current territories of ukraine are the transcarpathia of romania, this is the translation of slovakia, serbia is the voivodeship in austria

, burgenland, croatia and slovenia, which according to the terms of the trianon peace treaty on june 4, 2020, hungary lost due to defeat in the first world war, the football association of hungary reported that uefa allowed hungarian fans to use such banners with the image of great hungary, which symbolizes respect for historical hungary and solidarity with fans who were abroad, this is a version of the hungarian federation, while using similar symbols that has a clear message to the territorial claims of a number of european countries, it is possible , according to certain rules, on the banner there can be no symbols or inscriptions, only the use of the colors of the country's flag for 40 seconds. how do you rate it? i think this is still history for a long time. there is the position of the romanian side. i think they will dispute it . it will be an element of some election campaign . well, when we talk about central europe, where in the 20th century the borders there have moved endlessly .

this is a very delicate issue that requires, let's say, a very delicate attitude, from all sides, from all sides , because on the one hand , it is a trianon injury, but the key thing is when these injuries are politely treated, as in this case, i i do not exclude things. to be honest, we have in common the fact that this scarf, viktor orban, is in action. by chance, someone slipped it to him and there was this card everywhere in tourist places of liberals, and this is the unity of society. liberals also experience this trauma with difficulty. of the empire, orbanovsky or liberal friends, we don't have time for a discussion, no, no, no, but there is a danger that it could turn into this , let's go and visualize it.

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