[000:00:00;00] repetition, first of all for the sake of justice, i will say that from the moment i started talking about schizofascism, it turned out that there is already a russian thinker who uses the term schizofascism , which i did not know about because i invented it , what is in question so, schizofascism means that i am a fascist, but i say that you are a fascist, this term helps us to understand what russia is, i.e. two fascists talking about fascism so, fascists talk about fascism, that russia in the russian language, nazis or fascist means my enemy , that is, not a russian, there is none meaningful content, so when the west hears the word fascism or nazi, we think hail, you talk about concentration camps, a one-party state and all these things, but in the official russian political language, it simply means the enemy of someone who i don't like today, it's all those who are against us. that's what it is therefore means people who are actually fascists , such as oleksandr dukhin or prokhanov, they are without

a doubt fascists of those who are liberals or democrats, because for them it simply means that you are against russia and you are my enemy, whose enemy am i chose for myself today and it is important because in fact fascists are constantly looking for and talking about enemies and someone like that should think a little about it the fact that fascists call you fascists actually means that they themselves are fascists mr. snyder when i read about this term schizofascism i i immediately thought about the term that is possible one day there will be a schizo putinism sketch putin i will now explain what i mean when i read russian newspapers on the internet when i watch russian propaganda tv channels it seems to me that these people consider putin the only leader who can save russia. they think of him as the son of god who came down to earth

in order to save them, liberate them and lead them to russian prosperity and some russian light. may also appear, i don't think, although you make a very interesting remark about the difference between ukraine and russia and i would say about ukrainian political education. i have been coming to ukraine for a long time and let's look twice at the truth and this idea that someone will save us was very common in 2004 in 2005 it was a good idea we will get the person we need and then everything will be fine but if you think like that you will not really have democracy and you will think that everything is fine as you said it will be the savior the right person you really need to have a leader, you don’t know, you had kravchuk, you had kuchma, you had yushchenko, yanukovych, you had poroshenko , and you and zelensky, you had all these different people, they reflect different moments of your

history. order in a completely normal way isn't it this is something that is not in russia i mean that putin is not just putin as a person the fact that he has been in power for 20 years is terrible for russians because it makes them think that it is not about the system is not in the rules and not in the elections, but exclusively in the one and only putin, the savior. if you think like that, you will not become a free person, you will be passive. and you will think about politics for yourself constantly. they often say that all wars end at the negotiating table, continuing what you said about schizo-fascism, do you think it is likely or possible for us ukrainians to sit down at the negotiating table with schizo-fascists ? let me answer this question more broadly. the second world war ended because

the germans lost the french war. ended because the french lost the french war will china ended because they lost our war in afghanistan and iraq ended because we lost and it does not end when people there may be negotiations, but there may not be. we lost the war in vietnam, and then we went to negotiations , that is, first someone has to lose . maybe they will be after the victory of ukraine. if russia wins, then they will definitely not be there. if you continue to fight, they will not be either. the only way to negotiations is the victory of ukraine. whether you sit at the winners' table with these people or not is up to you. the solution even with schizo-fascists, history already sees this. if you decide to negotiate, you do not choose with whom you will do it, but

it will be your sovereign decision, which you will later praise in view of historical models. and you know these historical models very well, which future awaits the country which we now unfortunately call the russian federation , answer this question i will do what you cannot do well, i am not demanding this from ukrainians, but i will ask what is the real interest of russia. i think that putin it's really not a terrible geopolitician, it's terrible that people look at him as a leader with a certain charisma i don't understand it because i don't feel it, people think that he made russia great or something but this whole anti-western movement that they started around 2000 or maybe even earlier georgia cyber attack and not estonia, the invasion of ukraine in 2014, this whole movement against the west. and

from the point of view of russia’s survival , there is no sense in sovereignty, because if russia is going to exist and be strong, if it really believes in a multipolar world, what about which is often said this means that they should be one of these poles , well, we will cooperate with the west and sometimes with china, but they pushed the west back by invading ukraine, although there were so many people who wanted to cooperate with russia, this means that now they depend on of china and the process has already started, the driver that now before our eyes russia is falling into a certain dependence on china, they talk about sovereignty, but in reality they are increasingly involved in dependence on the heavenly, they are dependent on china, well, every day and not in ukraine will only increase this dependence, that is, every day when they bring their soldiers from east asia to die in ukraine, they make

china stronger, supply china with everything at chinese prices, they make china stronger, the chinese just watch and enjoy all this. so where is russia going, is it becoming dependent on china? yes this is exactly the direction they chose. i think the secondary question is who actually controls the resources in the russian far east because russia's wealth depends on moscow's wealth moscow's wealth depends from the resources located in the russian far east who will control these resources in the long term will moscow end it or someone else is the disintegration of russia possible so again i am doing what ukrainians are not expected to do but if i thought about the future of russia i would try to stop the war already today they replaced putin on someone else would try to find a way to talk with the west through the withdrawal of russian soldiers from ukraine. it would be all because when all the russian soldiers

left ukraine. yes, putin made a mistake, but we want to start all over again and the west should have said so because we withdrew all our soldiers from ukraine and then russia had a chance to become a sovereign country because it could maneuver between the ends of the west. i think that putin is actually burying russian sovereignty , and the longer he fights in ukraine, the worse it is for russia itself, and you have already said that putin is a bad geopolitician, but what was the biggest mistake he made when he first thought about starting a full-scale invasion of ukraine and then when he decided to do it. we are now in lviv in the world. we are in the village of austria. one of the great austrian writers was robert musel . he wrote the book a man without attributes . a wonderful character from this book. italian

diplomats say in diplomacy, never do what you want to do, and if you feel that you want to do something, don't do it, just don't do it, don't do it , a person who understood better what could happen, what the consequences of his actions would be with age, after reading bad literature, he kept getting more and more into full of his own ideas i think that the invasion of ukraine was what he wanted to do in this way he violated the basic rule of international politics don't do what you want to do i think that he wanted to invade ukraine and it will either be a disaster for this russia will also destroy his reputation. if he had done something else, he would have been remembered

in a completely different way, but this last year, nadiyka , will etch putin in history, but is n't his reputation already destroyed, you know. everything could be worse, i can't say it in russian leaders, what should they do in the end, i don't know, no one knows what people close to putin think about it. but with each day of his stay in power, the situation becomes a detail , i don't think we can change it, someone else has to do it, maybe one day someone will be able to let's talk about the ukraine of the future, the future after the war , after our joint victory with allies and partners , what kind of country do you think ukraine could become? okay, this is a great question.

horizontal cooperation is something that you should continue because it is a way for citizens to believe in themselves that they can do something for a free ukraine - it is very important that they do not believe that they are implementing changes, that they are not helpless, that they are not paranoid believe in conspiracy theories , they can act themselves and this is very good, another very important point - these are successful elections even during the war, and this is regardless of the personalities of poroshenko and zelenskyi, well, it is very important that poroshenko lost and zelenskyi won you had a change of power during the war and this is all very well in terms of what we have to worry about in the future so this is how to rebuild ukraine and the danger for you is that we give too much money to one person we should not do that we america, the west and so on must find all these hundreds of non-governmental organizations to help them, we must cooperate with all regions, all cities and towns

, helping them here is not about ukraine, but about the fact that, as history shows, it is worth doing decentralized we do not want ukraine to find itself in a situation where the central government suddenly ugh we will manage to do it, i can already see and see a ukraine that will be better than ukraine in 2021 better public transport better city squares better kharkov although i really like kharkiv eh with modern cities by roads, all of this can be achieved if the reconstruction is carried out correctly, and europe needs ukraine. i mean that getting out of the influence of the russian empire is an opportunity to become ukraine but also to be with all other countries and europe need you because they need a project, they need a story about themselves, a new, fresh story, their

story about themselves is connected with 1945, but they need a more recent story, they need a success that they can call their success, and this success must be post-war ukraine becoming ukraine is great mr. sniper my last question for you today is what will be the historical responsibility of russia not putin but russia for everything it did during the war this is a great question because i believe that responsibility is a key term in international politics and it is related to what you said about the law, maybe we want putin to be arrested, but it is important for us to say that you are responsible, we believe that you are responsible for everything we believe in responsibility, but one of russia's problems are a whole culture of impunity, they do something bad and then something even worse, and

so they stop believing in these rules and we will not be punished, of course in every country people try to break the rules but if we say that there are no rules, that nothing matters, and this is exactly the situation russia is in, that is why, firstly, it is very important that russian assets are used for the restoration of ukraine, for this we need to find a way a, and secondly, from the point of view of historical responsibility, and i i'm not saying now, as a historian, people should think about how russian history was written, how we all thought about russia, that one of the reasons for this war was that many of us believed for too long a certain story about what russia really was then russia invaded ukraine before we understood that the story about russia that we believe does not allow us to understand some other historical realities ukraine is one of these

historical realities this is the city of ivano-frankivsk - it is also our own responsibility for the reconstruction of european history or history from the west in such a way that ukraine fits into it and the most interesting thing is european or western history will become much more interesting and will make much more sense. there should be long, boring trials in which people are found guilty and then it will be possible to talk about relations with the russians , we are all united by a common problem. we look at history and say that we have always been innocent, that we have never done anything wrong. they can also say that, russia shows us what happens when you push yourself to the extreme in this regard. how are you putin and

putin's astra j is that the russians are always innocent, you are always guilty, someone else has always been a german in the shooting of the jews brussels berlin, washington, it was always someone else, come here, the language of comradebentrop never existed. we have never done anything wrong. russia is decent. now i will talk about things that do not depend on us. but in order for the renewal of russia to take place, they will have to admit that there is a concept of historical responsibility. that the word responsibility is very uhu, but we cannot force someone to be responsible, you can try to bring others to responsibility , say that there is a law and you you no, we have a lot of money, we can do it with russia, but in the end, responsibility is also something internal, something that needs to be felt. we can't do it for russia, but we can do it for ourselves. thank you very much, mr. snyder

. thank you for agreeing to talk, for answering my questions and for sharing your thoughts about the past, the future, and about our victory. thank you very much. well, it was timothy snyder , a professor of history at lille university . they talked with him, obviously, about ukraine, about russia , about the past, about the future, and obviously about victory. see you soon, and now live broadcast on espresso tv channel. informational and analytical marathon now we are adding our next speaker to us, he should be viktor bondarenko, a well-known ukrainian political scientist with a registration in sumy yes, but yes, the voice of the north, but still an important signal from the border guards who detained the border guard who tried to leak data to the fsb about the protection of the northern borders of ukraine.

this is how it worked this is, so to speak, a character in the chernihiv region, an inspector of the chernihiv border detachment, who before the start of the full-scale invasion was recruited by a personnel fsb officer. well, after of a full-scale invasion, the enemy activated his henchman, so to speak, to carry out various reconnaissance and subversive works against ukraine. well, he was supposed to photograph engineering, technical, and various structures and the state border in the networks of the chernihiv region. secret phone, well, however , the sbu employees worked and promptly exposed the traitors. ray was detained, so let him sit, let's add viktor bondarenko, a political scientist, to our conversation, he is already with us on

viktor, we congratulate you glory to ukraine glory to you good health well, let's start talking about the actual situation in the sumy oblast, uh, there is such an observation that the russians, in addition to the already traditional shelling of the border with the russian federation, are increasingly using air bombs to attack the sumy oblast, your guess what are they trying to achieve here in the north in particular, and how is the situation in the sumy oblast, please? well, they got to uh, they hit the white dust, it's 50 km to the north. well, a little northwest of sumy, it's the former regional center - it's a big, interesting, very beautiful picturesque the city, which is actually 11 km from the border with russia, so they can direct a bomb to the controlled bomb during the flight without even entering our airspace . well, they dropped several bombs at once

. and it seems like eight of them. and they took off and bombed the mykolaiv community a lot there, and today, by the way. they also threw a bomb again. well, they shoot white-white-white all the time. in general, they are shelling us 18 communities in sumy oblast out of 501 which are in the zone of achievement the range of their artillery is up to 25 km, which can finish, let's say. well, there are mortars up to 10 arc up to 25 well, actually, planes, so that 8 of my planes will take off, eight bombs will be dropped, and without crossing the northern airspace of ukraine. well, in this way they do it for why is this so much, it is done only so that we do not withdraw troops from here

, that we do not withdraw our anti-terrorist defense, that the battalions do not transfer to other areas of the front, in addition to this, they launch all kinds of ipso there. well, you will go there to the store there there well as a person public, somewhere they know, what they say, it will be there again, russia comes in, where did you get it from? why do you think so? well, there, obs , you know, one grandmother said, that is, such rumors are spread. they are then spread through the telegram network or any chat rooms. that's the main thing to start. and he's there for himself, then this snitch walks by himself, er, incites the enemy , incites. that is, these are not random conversations , this is a deliberately directed campaign in order to break down the psyche of extremely strong and of the brave people of sumy. everything is correct. well, yes, it is so, but you know, with all that , many people are already returning, even those who

are there, especially on the conclusion , are coming back. they are returning there under bilopylla, the strength of the river is even closer to the border , then it’s there. and why did you come back? they were fed up there, they rode somewhere in central western ukraine, somewhere in poland, they were there, they worked somewhere, that’s all, but the children missed the others there, the fun of their grandmother there and arrived well, this is courage, which is sometimes on the verge of prudence, because , for example, i didn’t bring my children, i didn’t return them, but they are still sitting there, far away , far away. us when the alarm sounds, few people there pay attention, they scratch behind their ears, that's all viktor

and what flies, what splashes, information flies over the ledge so we understand whether we want it or not , but there is a certain communication between different regions, yes, and across the state border with the help of messengers there or i don’t know if there are any additional devices there, we are very interested in how the residents of the russian border are experiencing this whole russian military aggression, because , as far as we understand, it sometimes flies to them . well, at the same time, some of their children return home in graves after the execution the attack on ukraine, which is being repelled by our armed forces, that now i am wandering around in the russian heads, it is not enough for us to understand that it is not far from here behind the fence, but there is an aunt grayvoron, these are the former hundreds of soums of the slobid regiment. that is, there, er, somewhere 70 kilometers

deep into russia. well, in general, the entire south of the belgorod region and part of kurshchyna - these are ukrainian villages where they still speak ukrainian , well, at least the grandmothers there are 70-80 of them now and spushkin's two words won't be connected for that, a portrait of shevchenko and kobzar. they read eh, but at the same time, young people are already there, they are already there, well, at the same time, you shachucha, there are already a lot of marriages there such mixed although i tell you honestly, we are still at the beginning in the 2000s, they were taken there specifically to study their folklore, they took our, our faculty of philology of the sumy pedagogical university, so uh, they didn’t mix there until the early 90s, they didn’t mix there , the principle, in principle, there, how to take a woman, mom , it’s 7 right here, more south, ukrainian villages,

more north, russian well, we don't take girls there by zaseynom . they are powerful, they know how to cook , why do they not drink moonshine, they drink lamb, i tell you honestly, but now it has changed. 50 out of 60 who still lived together in the soviet union and they call each other, well, there is a skill, there are people who understand everything, and there are people who, well , somewhere, the bags have frozen a little and they are there , what do they hand in, would you live together, how did you live, why , why, why? it is necessary. well, we would live in the soviet union. how good it was in the soviet union. well, it’s like that somewhere, or it’s been a long time. i was there in the 14th year. run to us there, bandera people, it's calm. i myself bandiruetsya there when from whom

i'm running away from my own people and they're like this, that's it, that's it, but it's among the ethnic ukrainian population that there is more understanding . the hetmanship was there, but then there is the kursk region, where the course is nightingale eyes, everything is bad there, they are there, if there are any relatives, then they are there. well, what is there, beyond kursk, to ethnic already russian lands, eh, there, ryazan, there, it was all the same. well , for now mr. bondarenko and i are discussing these important topics on the sidelines is no less important story that president zelenskyi has already managed to visit sumy oblast and took a look at how is the protection of the state border with the aggressor state carried out? well, we didn't know about it, but we found out after the fact. viktor

is approaching the pension meeting today. okhtyrka trostyanets suffered a lot, well even more than sumy sumy there in the vicinity a little last year and trostyanets okhtyrka is very strong well, i would hope that volodymyr oleksandrovich asked how they spent the 400 million allocated for the same okhtyrka and trostyanets on reconstruction and what was the kickback for him to ask the local officials, it must be the officials, and there were already suspicions and so on. well, you wanted to ask how the investigation of these cases is going now after, well , as a result of which the head of the sumy military administration was dismissed, and a new one has now been appointed. what's up with casey now, i think. well, everyone says that now , today, they will appoint it. it's a military secret. well, i also didn't understand why to make such a military secret with the appointment instead of saying what's up.

we have several alternatives there, ivanenko's opinion, sydorenko's opinion there, it's like, what do you think, is there a military man there, a scientist there, or an old corrupt official, that maybe we'll bring back someone from donetsk, but for some reason, it's a secret , all of him, all of his arrival is a secret well, i understand that a visit by the president of a belligerent state is possible under such circumstances . especially in the front-line border zone, it should be a state secret here , yes, but it seems to me that it is necessary. well, anyway , less ostentation, more concrete discussions of flights because well, all the investigations are hanging on me right now, and how the same good russian vysotsky sang beg na meste объехное примяющий i took the good russians in quotes

according to the method of running on the spot, i generally try it on. that is, they suspected something somewhere. and then what else, uh, next to the investigations. well, we are now conducting a new investigation. so, uh, and i assure you that the new investigation will give new, very interesting results. and now they will highlight new ones money for roads there is up to 10 billion and again there and again eh well, the insider is talking about what's going on there, well, it's terrible, sad. and i wish that volodymyr oleksandrovich didn't say that we don't have corruption . he said exactly that. he came for uh and there he photographed the anvil of those who carried out corruption there, so here's something, this one is sitting there. he is already giving evidence, there is something else, well, they haven’t seen it yet, they have seen it. only, slavsya got lost and i was driving today with a taxi driver. the taxi driver very aptly said that he says that there are a lot of national police. well, how many, what, too

many here, if here why spies can they can calculate that zelensky is in sumy because there are many more military than on february 24 of last year. and that's why every russian spy can say something is wrong here. apparently zelensky is coming, and the taxi driver said that there is a guy who is coming. zelensky is probably coming. and why do you think so? well, then that the national police will show us the corner here, they are checking the documents here , it's scary, scary, what's going on, they stop the minibuses , they disperse everyone, apparently, zelenskyi will come and he said and then finishes, uh, to maintain his rating, that is, some taxi drivers understood everything security measures should still be in place, mr. viktor, thank you for including viktor bondarenko, political scientist, voice, voice of sumy region, he was in touch with us now, we have news time on the espresso tv channel, and i will present melnyk on eve . congratulations, colleagues, i will tell you about the most important thing together with the news team, i will start with that that the prosecutors appealed the court's verdict regarding