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, today the parishioners of the uoc mp were not allowed to enter the lavra, the holy fathers let go of journalists, and under sanctions, metropolitan pavlo threatened to beat with sticks, how will the lavra passions end , let's talk against the background of the tense situation around the lavra, a member of the spiritual council of the kyiv-pechers lavra, archimandrite avraham, announced his transition from the ukrainian orthodox church to the autocephalous orthodox church of the church of ukraine, epiphanius appointed him to perform the duties of the vicar of the lavra, and in the ukrainian orthodox church he was called a schismatic. and what is the significance of this transition? well, russian forces have made a slight advance in bakhmut. this is reported by the american institute for the study of war, and british intelligence informs that russia is preparing to mobilize 400,000 people under the guise of volunteers, what does it all mean , today we speak freely and life, the commission at the ministry of culture, which was supposed to conduct an inventory of the property of the kyiv-pechers

nature reserve, was not allowed to enter the lavra today parishioners of the ukrainian orthodox church, well, that of the moscow patriarchate, and the abbot of the kyiv lavra, or the former abbot, now we will say pavlo lebid told the parishioners that the commission cannot work under any circumstances. he threatened to beat them with a stick and break their cameras, when a photojournalist , for example, yan dobrnosov, asked pavel why he was threatening him. pavel replied that it was not he is threatening, on the contrary, he is being threatened, another incident happened with the participation of a journalist of the espresso tv channel, metropolitan pavlo pushed her and said that he did not invite anyone to the lavra, and therefore does not want to talk to anyone . look how it was for me, or i will beat you again

all your questions. and why are you threatening us? take it out of your sight, please. why are you threatening us? i'm not threatening you. it's like money . why are you threatening us? now you're threatening us specifically. i didn't invite you to the magazine, it's a state institution, and i'm telling you once again that it's land on some kind of land, please dial, i don't want to talk, communicate with a person. me too, people, don't take off what they showed later, it's not a state institution, i'm not a state institution, it's a person. well, the social organization will contact the police regarding the obstruction of journalistic activity on the territory of the lavra, when today the journalist of the social organization tried to ask a question to metropolitan pavlo the priest on the territory of the lavra, he pushed her and broke the mount on

the operator's camera. look how it was it is important to check well, what else happened today in the lavra on the territory of the reserve, roksolana bychay, our colleague, worked all day, her report, we show it next, they did not open the first complex that we were supposed to check, we came with the commission and were supposed to go to the 111th building and start the check, so how people pray and sing , but for reasons unknown to us, which we will now install, the building is closed, that is , the church is closed, then we will now fix all these things and continue our activities , our orthodox church stands for its own no one can come to the shrine and tell me that the station is russia, because someone wanted to, and i told you so. well, excuse

me, don't you know what is said about our church ? we didn't build it, it's not the same, we don't give it we want our shrines to remain our shrines, we don't do something we come to your house and don't say that let's live here properly, but it's not your property and the property of the state well, what right does the state have to attribute here and who should go here to decide the state property property of the national reserve kyiv-pechersk lavra we will find out for what reasons the premises were not opened, this is more a question for the monastery who were warned by a member of the monastery is in our commission but let us record it all we will make it comply with the requirements of the law and within the limits of our

powers, you see truly , there are no eternal resurrections, and faith in god is eternal kyiv metropolis of the ukrainian orthodox church 31 years and seven months why are you not interested because that you are deaf, you don't hear your family, that you want a person, the girls are still the most beautiful, you stay, be blessed , don't pay attention to anything, christ, don't

take offense at the sick. read on the internet i can't explain everything, we didn't invite you and i shouldn't call you i'm a dog because i told you i'll beat you with a stick i won't promise i'll do it well, i'm a person, i'm also a person, she's nothing does not just scratch the tongue and collect money, they can go on to do more go there cow you will come you are caught here today the state does not have the right to check contracts only four months after martial law everyone continues and we were interrupted that's why i call you all once again brothers and sisters to stand up for the protection of your

shrine, the reserve appealed to the national police, a statement was recorded accordingly about obstructing the work of the commission and obstructing access to state property by unidentified persons, at first it turned out that there were no keys to enter the temple, and then unknown people appeared who sang and prayed to leave it until there is a court decision and it is not the music director who passed it, the executive power should be in the classical sense, as we plan , we were not able to work it out. with a statement about obstructing the activity of the commission to the national police and tomorrow we will continue the work about which all members of the commission were informed. tomorrow

we will go to the 111th building again and try to do the same the work assigned to us as part of the activity of this commission, the approximate term of the commission's activity is three months , i cannot say exactly when the work of the commission will be completed . who am i, but they just said on the phone that we closed the temple ourselves , everyone is listening well, how can the events in the lavra and around the lavra develop further, does the state have grounds to put pressure on metropolitan pavel and demand from his eviction from the lavra and what will the state do if the leadership of the uoc mp does not fulfill these demands literally before the broadcast , less than an hour ago i asked the minister of culture

oleksandr tkachenko, listen to his answers , mr. minister, and please tell me how to now correctly call metropolitan pavlo, who else was until yesterday, he was the governor of the lavra. is he still the governor of the lavra? well, you know. i don’t know. he is probably still the metropolitan. well , that’s clear. is he the governor of the lavra? well, that’s a good question. we’ll have to find out. i don’t know. i don't know, i won't say. okay, then the next question is what you saw on the tv channel today. it's not correct to call it an attack . it was okay not to call it. okay, then what you saw today on the territory of the lavra surprised you how the parishioners of the ukrainian orthodox church did not allow the commission to accept the transfer of property. is this

did it come as a surprise to you or not? well, you know how the brothers of the russian church behave. and i call the priests of the russian orthodox church , the priest must be officials from the church, because their behavior is, in principle, gold mercedes, of the current reading, it is also characteristic of the representatives of their branch in ukraine, but this aggression towards people is simply towards people who are fulfilling their public duty . about uh, what their declarations to god are really worth, as well as the attitude towards journalists whom they tried to be with or towards ordinary people, only their point of view is, and it is, so to speak, final, in fact, no. there is

respect for the state called ukraine. there is respect to the laws of ukraine and they, as citizens of ukraine, have to be guided by them. well, did their behavior today surprise you ? it didn't surprise you. what's more, we know from the previous vivid statements of metropolitan pavel that his statements very often differ from the facts, look literally last year in october you gave an interview to radio svoboda and then our colleagues asked you whether it was advisable to ban the uoc and you said then i quote you literally, you said that the preservation of religious peace in ukraine during the war of war is an extremely important point, so if the russians want to confuse the situation somewhere, it is exactly religious and ethical ethnic relations that we need to maintain that level of dialogue here

from the uoc, who was there before the war and understand that a correct civilized attitude towards certain religious associations must be preserved, you still advocate dialogue with the uoc, well, you know if dialogue does not work, despite all attempts if they refuse to dialogue, instead they help, the representatives of the uoc-mp collaborate with the russians, and actually then the state has the right to use its a-a levers of influence. agreements, as in this case, where they ended, and it was with the representatives of the uatc of the mp, and unfortunately, at these objects, they do not allow representatives of the state to go there, museums or nature reserves, from which they belong to the

state, these objects belong to the state, and we are forced file a lawsuit, which should establish that, so to speak, force them to act, to do what they are currently preventing state representatives from entering, and to those temples that belong no less, it seems to me that you were among those politicians who advocated dialogue with them until the last, and you can correct me, you were definitely not the driver who initiated the termination of the contracts with the uoc mp. it was probably an initiative from the president's office. well, you are probably better informed than i am asking you. no, this is a consolidated position and a political position it is not about the political position in the termination of the agreement, it is about the attitude

towards the uoc mp, including the laws registered in the verkhovna rada, and regarding the uoc mp. it is quite simple . representatives of the uoc mp when they say that they did not receive this. this is not true. including recorded illegal buildings and the transfer of the use of property to third parties, and on the basis of this , a letter was already sent in accordance with the law the uoc mp regarding the termination of the agreement has been met. all deadlines of 20 days will actually expire on the 29th. on the 30th , the commission started work, which i very much hope will visit the territory of the lower lavra tomorrow to sign the acts of acceptance of the transfer of those objects that were at their disposal. and if the komi they won't let us in again

, well, let's see. they were hoping for some kind of court decision . today, the court decided to deny them a-a to cancel our decision or suspend our decision, so to speak, as a guarantee we are acting absolutely legally. i hope that the representatives of the uoc mp will come to their senses, so to speak, and if, after all, neither the court decision nor your agreements on the termination of the lease with them will become convincing for them, what will the state do then by force , we will somehow pull them out of there to act according to the law and what is it that the law provides in this case, the law in this case provides that if there is no possibility in a civilized way to take over the management for ourselves, we record, as today

, the police recorded a case of non-admission and next i quite understand the procedure for carrying out, so to speak, the execution of those who do not want to comply with the law . can you describe how it will happen, they will be expelled from there by force? submission to the court and while the trial will continue, they did not stay long because this is an obstacle to the activities of representatives of the authorities and the authorities can use force if necessary and i say the procedure once again.

once it was recorded, they are not allowed a second time . objects, then it should already come into force, so to speak, law enforcement agencies , i understand, ah, bailiffs are in the house , well, that is, there is a whole set of measures, so to speak , when the state is not necessarily a force, it is execution of court decisions in the summer of the year of the epiphany of the orthodox church of ukraine with the orthodox church of ukraine to conduct services on the territory of the lavra and later our colleagues from the program of the scheme turned to the ministry of culture of the department you head with a request whether anyone at all responded to the request of the epiphany and then from the ministry of culture to our colleagues

a letter arrived. there was a message that uh , because it is currently impossible to provide premises to the orthodox church of ukraine, because all all territories, all all premises, more precisely, are occupied now, since the ukrainian orthodox church is allegedly vacating these premises, can you state or announce that a place for the ptsu will be found first of all, as of last summer, on the territory of the upper lavra, e.e., also two temples, the stairs to the church and the dormition cathedral were in use by the opp e these agreements ended on december 31 of last year. as you know, there was an epiphany service at christmas. i think the position is more than clear. it is possible. i think that the religious life

should in any case continue in the lavra but the state should manage such an object. well, as far as i understand, the epiphany service was in charge there. it was such a one-time event . then we had it one more time and one more time. he was satisfied, there will be other requests, we will consider them if , for example, the orthodox church of ukraine will claim some part of the premises for use on a permanent basis, if they ask for their brothers to live there , the state will accept it. and let's move consistently, let's first return this object to state management. although all the decisions are necessary and legal , we do not yet have physical access to these objects, as soon as we will have this access and

receive appropriate requests from e-e we will consider them, thank you. well, following the conversation with the minister, i would like to add something. literally less than an hour ago, the commercial court of kyiv refused to secure the claim of representatives of the kyiv-pechersk lavra of the uoc mp to the national reserve of the kyiv-pechersk lavra. i would like to remind you that the deputy of the lavra m. mr. tkachenko said it is possible to no longer call pavel the vicar of the lavra, nevertheless pavel stated that the clergy of the uoc mp will not leave the territory of the lavra until there is a court decision, but the court decision appeared and the court decision refused to secure the lawsuit of representatives of the uoc mp, this means that they after all, they have to adhere to the contract to comply with the conditions and vacate the premises on the territory of the lavra as required by the order of the ministry of culture, we will monitor how this story will end today, metropolitan pavlo

also commented on the transfer of the archimandrite of the kyiv-pechers lavra of the uoc mp avramiya to the ptu about his transfer, i will remind abraham to inform the previous day, as reported in the ptu, he himself turned to epiphanius with a request to approve him as a brother in the ptu monastery , epiphanius agreed and now abraham will perform the duties of the vicar on the holiday - assumptionist who is part of the pechersk lavra, abraham yesterday in his address called on other monks to transfer to the ptu and at the same time stay in the lavra. the uoc reported that metropolitan onufriy imposed a ban on archimandre and avramius from serving without the right to communion for evading schism and gross violation of the oath , i.e. they said he was a schismatic. avramiya to ptzu commented today and metropolitan pavlo, listen to what he said. and why was avraniya forbidden

to serve? this is judas, a thief who secretly took out some things and entered. i should not be in front of you. this is the man in front of you who answers and reflects and i am not in front of you current passions, if i may say so, in the lavra and around the lavra, we will discuss with a religious scholar , andriy smirnov , a religious scholar, doctor of historical sciences, is joining the air, can you hear me? good evening. i would like to start with this parish, avraamiya, the transition to ptu avraamiya, who since 2021 has the rank of archimandrite - this is our highest rank in christianity, so the religious experts with whom i have already managed to talk in these two days call this transition a great success psu of the orthodox church of ukraine, do you agree with this and what does this success consist of, so that it is clear to people who may

not be related to religion, father abraham is a latvian , a very authoritative monk and answers to a person who has always taken a patriotic position , this is not some situational decision, but follows due to his inner convictions , negotiations were held with him for a long time on the subject of joining the orthodox church of ukraine, but only yesterday this event was officially announced. he will now perform the duties of the vicar of the kiev-pechersk lavra of the orthodox church of ukraine and i want to draw attention to the fact that this is not just an ordinary monk and not just an archimandrite, he was the rector of the monastery and a member of the spiritual council of such a peculiar monastic government. the pechersk lavra will also join the orthodox church of ukraine , did i understand correctly that avraham will now

replace paul in the position of er-e governor of the lavra , not quite so, because there are two legal entities , respectively, there are two monasteries, two lavras of the ukrainian orthodox church in unity with the moscow patriarchate and the orthodox church of ukraine so vladyka pavlo remains the vicar of the lavra of the uoc mp well , father avraham is temporarily again until a brotherhood is formed that will be able to elect a full-fledged permanent vicar a-a well, he will actually be formed brothers i.e. , both churches now, the orthodox church of ukraine and the ukrainian orthodox church , also called the moscow patriarchate, have their governors, two lavras, two governors, but neither church has an agreement rent for the use of either the upper or the lower lavra is state property, and now the state is trying to return the use of the lower lavra, and the great pavlo, his

supporters are interfering with the authorities, influencing them to provide premises for the brothers of the ukrainian orthodox church of the orthodox church of ukraine. now what decisions can we expect from the state? we just spoke with the minister of culture oleksandr tkachenko, he did not rule out that some part of the premises will be handed over to the orthodox church of ukraine and then question and which brothers will live there, can there be brothers from both churches? will they still have to determine which church they are with? this is a difficult situation. it requires an intensive dialogue between the church and the state than the ukrainian orthodox church and the ukrainian orthodox church. the question will not succeed. unfortunately, the bc mp has taken such a destructive position, a position of confrontation with the state and does not make any concessions. i think that a compromise could be some kind of temporary

peaceful coexistence of the uoc and the ptu in the lower lavra . or maybe it is worth handing over the upper lavra for of the orthodox church of ukraine, which really appealed to give premises where monks can live, but at the moment the ministry of culture has not responded to this appeal and we probably have to wait until all these court processes are completed, because the refusal to satisfy the demands of the lawsuit is only the beginning, but a full-fledged court hearing will begin only on april 26, and until april 26, by and large, representatives of the uoc-mp can stay in the lavra. this is how we saw today that metropolitan pavlo is still there and says that he is not going to leave anywhere, even after their stay it is illegal because the contract of invalidation has been terminated and the court actually refused to satisfy the lawsuit, that is, for the period of the trial, the state's decision is not suspended , it is valid and it is necessary to implement the legal and

state's decision , bishop pavlo refuses to do this, that is, they will come to the territory of the lavra every day and will pray and they will block the work of this commission, this is it. see, no matter how controversial metropolitan pavlo's reputation is, did you pay attention to how big a support group he has? did it come as a surprise to you? the surprise of today's events in the lavra, of course, is that the ukrainian orthodox church can mobilize significantly more of its believers and supporters, if there is a need, they can bring them together. with all of ukraine , at the call of metropolitan onufry, they can organize a pilgrimage, but the fact is that this does not solve the problem, the supporters are - these are very specific believers who have such phonetic religiosity, they will really support bishop paul and metropolitan onufriy to the end, but this does not solve the problem , the situation only worsens and creates