[000:00:00;00] they say that seeing people come out and protest, others say to agree with these people, it turned out to be 300, 300 for 40 million of ukraine and for ten million at least loyal to the moscow patriarchate , at least a foreigner, three executions is nothing , that is, there are no such protests. for civil society, the presence of such crisis points well, i would separate religious life, church life and civil society are a little bit different things, although really there are quite a lot of public activists, the church itself maintains contact with organized direct organizations that can be called civil society , this is true, but these are slightly different things, if you are talking about the moscow patriarchate in

ukraine in particular, it is obvious that this religious organization has a network of its public associations the network is quite widespread, it is branched out, it is a variety of charitable foundations , public organizations, er, even specialized public organizations or associations, it is er, even a couple of military formations, although that is what you call a variety of cossacks of the moscow patriarchate, which guarded the same lavra until recently, these structures are connected with prohibited political parties that were on the border, on the one hand, they were headed by their representatives there, deputies of various levels, or the opposition bloc or the state party, and on the other hand, they were the structures that guarded the various church property of the moscow patriarchate on the territory of ukraine and the mobilization power of this or that network is quite high. i

would not ignore the fact that they even during the war, they were allowed to organize processions, for example, to the pochaiv lavra, there were several thousand people, that is, tens of thousands disappear into themselves, and in fact , more than five thousand people took part in these events, that is, the mobilization power of the moscow patriarchate is still high despite the fact that there were preventive measures, despite the fact that there is martial law, they are capable, you will be people for this, partially motivated people who are dependent directly on the church will receive money, funding, feed around of church property, and there are really fanatics of the russian world of the moscow patriarchate, who, er, are such a combat unit, the loudest, the loudest, in which they throw people at the cameras, at journalists, and the moscow popes are here

, the point is that yes, this is power, but is this church ready to use it all its mobilization resources for the protection of paul taken separately, to what extent the moscow patriarchate in ukraine itself is ready to protect him to the end, because with such means it is already a problem for discussions, we see that part of the brethren and the lavra e-e chose to separate from of the moscow patriarchate and remained in the lavra, she took the side of the church in ukraine . - there are people who do not want to protect the church of the moscow patriarchate itself, people who do not want to protect paul in raw power or personal competition or there is some kind of hostility or

because he is too toxic for in general, the moscow patriarchate, and they would like some kind of constructive cooperation with the current government, that's why you. his circumcision resource depends on this. i think that if the entire structure of the moscow patriarchate got involved, they would take out a little more people . look and why does this sympathy remain, no matter what they say, i may be wrong in the numbers, but what remains in my head is somewhere well, there are more than 10,000 parishes of the moscow patriarchate. and how many ptsu the orthodox church of ukraine i do not know

there, well, 500, well, 1,000, well, 1,500, well, many times less, that is, people who continue. well, how to say sympathize or simply by inertia go to the same church that once belonged to the moscow patriarch and there was no other patriarch in the soviet union, they continue despite the war against the victim against checking against the fact that millions of ukrainian women and children go to europe and so on, that is, there is transparency, it ’s not just that, and with others, there is also transparency. equal, you have a door, there is a place to go and nothing to change, well, that is, not a breaking point, it changes, it changes very , very, very slowly, why slowly, well, first of all, this situation has become a hostage to legal forms and legal support for functioning of church and religious organizations in ukraine, primarily due to the fact that there is er jurisdiction , the relationship of this ecclesiastical jurisdiction with

ukrainian legislation, how it is registered, who owns the property, does it belong to the church community, er, moscow priests before the great invasion, starting with in the 19th year, they tried to transfer the church property of the parishes to the jurisdiction and subordination directly to the clergy, i.e. the archbishop, and such a vertical would be built, and then the decision of the community about e-e exit from the rpc and transfer to the psu e-e also leaves a certain imprint e-e on the other hand, it is impossible to say. what do you see? there are 10,000 parishes of the moscow patriarchate and a small number of parishes there. if they are growing, in fact , it is worth looking at the mood among the faithful, and we can see that this change of mood has already occurred

in a large part of active orthodox laity. who saw themselves as part of the uoc , consider themselves loyal to the uoc and not the uoc of the moscow patriarchate. -secondly, the local er-e they are proteges or clients of the same archbishop, the archive of the list of the metropolitan, they are dependent people and go to the ptu, they simply physically cannot do all that there are many threads that are holding and their believers only went to their church there, let's say from 200 people , it has decreased to 20 and i see this everywhere, for example, i am not in kyiv now, it is located in the vinnytsia region, and there are several local churches in moscow hut , one is closed because there are no believers, and the other one

is for us on the verge of bankruptcy, i said it myself, the moscow fast itself, but it does not go to the ptu, although the faithful are already traveling a few kilometers away to the church that belongs to the ptu , here it is, this is already happening. well, what about popularity, or let's say what keeps people in within the framework of the moscow patriarchate, first of all, the presence of phobias, established myths, the tradition of closeness, personal acquaintance with the priest, that is, there are many factors. well, there is no such high dynamics of the transition, because this was determined to a large extent by this phobia of preserving belonging, this identity to the russian orthodox church, which is more than

ukraine to the russian world to tradition of russian orthodoxy she kept one part, then this part was reoriented, first the use began, by the way, they were unchained, there are others who are outspoken pioneers of the russian world in the interpretation of gundyaev and russian propagandists , they are, so to speak, the part that passively supports the aggression is passively supported by the russian peace, which extends beyond the borders of russia, they see themselves as parts of the future russia of the russian empire, which must come here, so they may not do anything before this because they are afraid, but passively by supporting the church, they are thus participants in this crime. and there is another part that is open. their agents occasionally reveal these agents . as for the monastic brothers, it is among the priests who act as frank adjusters of fire in

ukrainian cities. or is it? hmm, the same networks of clients, so-called public initiatives or organizations near the moscow patriarchate and which interact with the russian baroshka , especially in ukraine, and look, mr. vitayu. and what to do then, because in the discussion from the communities of various citizens, different in ukraine, there are some options , there is a very part that we always see, it is such an active part that says that it is necessary to prohibit at the legislative level to take away and not to let in the mp of the uoc mp there or here or in the lavra is generally closed everything is to be forgotten who say, let's be careful, let's give quietly, let's give selectively, if there are any pavel , then if he has an element of a crime, then

let's mean then we will prove this element of a crime through court processes and say whether he is guilty or not guilty, and then we will act according to the law people are even more careful who say let's not do anything and you just illustrated it, why don't they say that, they say that very gradually but after some time people will stop going to the moscow patriarchate, well, most of them will go to other churches and it will die on its own you don't need to help him to die. but wherever you are, where are you, all of you, all of you, what do you think should be closed by law or not touched at all , because religious problems are very acute and there is a lot of it. you yourself know better than i do. they stopped precisely because of the religious factor well, as an atheist, it is quite difficult

for me to comment on any church and religious matters. i am not vindictive, moreover, i openly stand on tourist positions, and for me it is part of the political process or there to the study of society as a phenomenon a- and that is why i cannot judge from the point of view of faith. whether i am a believer, i can say. as a political scientist, as a political scientist, i have already expressed this and wrote an article about the crisis of the secular state and argued that in the event of a war, the state has the right to protect the national of security, if a religious organization or, say, an organization called a religious organization participates in open collaboration with an aggressor enemy, the state has the right for a certain period of martial law to introduce a ban or temporary suspension of the activities of these religious organizations, and the property must be sealed and for the time of judicial investigations to be under under the control of the state period this applies to both the orthodox church

and the so-called moscow patriarchate such dictates of the control center located in moscow or in russia in general so it is not only one moscow house does not apply to one moscow house, there is conditional fuel or onufriy well, if we because this is such a principle is applied, then these cards should be where they are placed. and here is this triflingism that we pushed a little here , here we are a little persecuting pavel. we have a tolerant attitude towards the general existence of the moscow church in ukraine, as for me it only creates problems and not you, the legal uncertainty, which is usually used by the enemies, the last question , mr. vitaliy, and it is important, you just mentioned this exactly they said, and in general, the future of eastern europe is an atheistic future, let’s say more like this, a trend towards more atheistic work or towards a more religious europe, that

we don’t touch the poles there either, because there is catholicism, let them figure it out there, and countries like belarus, where the religious factor exists, ukraine, where the religious factor exists yes, moldova, where the hellenic factor exists, if it were not somewhere more, somewhere less , this, this, this, what can this crisis of society lead to , how will it affect the religious crisis, well , first of all, it is obvious that we are observing a certain desecularization of the state, that is, in fact, this process of the return of the church as an active actor in state institutions to a certain extent, even the intervention of the church in education, state administration, politics, presence in the army, etc. including in the constitution of ukraine and many other

states, but in my opinion, this process also has a certain reverse effect, because the presence of several orthodox confessions that compete with each other created, for a long time, such a condition from the efforts of some one church in our country is impossible for the state, and the church because it is automatically or not opposition. we have the ukrainian greek catholic church, there is a ptsu between them , it is obvious that there will be competition to one degree or another, even before that time there was a moscow patriarchate between them competition for believers would be competition for influence on the authorities, and this created an opportunity to maintain this balance in favor of the witness, now this balance is broken, as far as i am concerned, and we will still rake out of this situation because, uh, it is a violation of the principle of lightness affects the fact that the religious religious mystical situation, if we accept it on our consciousness, then this is another story alone. we have a pseudo -religious consciousness mixed with mysticism

, which weaves certain social patterns in us . people, instead of sincerely believing in the church, believe in the theological foundations of the foundations of religion . they pray by urinating at the village club, as was the case in ternopil oblast , that's what i'm afraid of, when the priests decide which movies to watch in the cinemas , they impose the necessity the study of the law of god or the foundations of christian morality in schools starting from the first grade or in preschool institutions, this is what i am proposing. i hope that this is not permissible, while preserving the secular character of this state, and with regard to the europeanness or the future of eastern europe in general, i think that the future is not for religious renaissance, but i am interested in atheism , the future gnosticism, that is, the majority will be diagnostics

. personally, thank you for finding time for us. now i'm standing on the threshold, i still don't understand. i can't speak a single word of russian . is there any more? and that is, they tell me that until july 17th, i can still speak a little russian. why am i thinking aloud with i will discuss with you here, because mark fei is a russian oppositionist , public politician, lawyer, blogger. well, in general, such a famous person, and i will speak russian with her until july 17 , as far as i can tell. that is, we need to get used to what will happen now until july 17. intensive conversation with russians in russian, stay away, the russians won't understand anything, they won't be able to talk to them , hello, yes, they say that we need to translate, i will , i will learn fast translation after the 17th, one person can't do simultaneous translation

by himself, but i'll try marfedin, hello well, i understand the ukrainian language, so it is possible because soon the crisis will come to us legally everything starts now everything is already flowing and already flowing and the majority of people are not interested in it but there are problems well, let's discuss russian russian agenda yes, there is an anti-war conference in riga in latvia, what happened there ? what should you pay attention to ? the general rule is that somehow you finally do something with this putin, but no one means no , no, nothing unites

. is there a future in russia? well, what can i say to the authorities ? well, i do not take part in the meetings of these . indeed, in terms of unification, the second initiative has meaning , which seems to be taking place in berlin at the end of april, initiated by mikhail khodorovsky, well , next to others, there is also lycia, that is where the question of unification positions will stand. well, again well, on what basis will this be a consultative body, perhaps, and the initiative came from okudarkovskogo , we still don’t know how it will all end, let’s wait and see, eh, but this is a pain in the future, than eh, one-time participation in some riga conference, what kind

of mass is taking place, you know the anti-war organization of the committee is only one of the organizations and not the most important thing, let's look at the fact that the strength of the positions represented in emigration is quite sufficient. groups, in principle, they have a chance to take some steps in terms of unification , the creation of some kind of unified coordinating body, and in principle , why is this necessary, the main thing is, and it is necessary for the reason that it is possible that only someone who strengthened ukraine to win the war will not be enough it is still necessary to create problems in moscow itself. inside russia, and this is an important thesis . you understand, eh, because these actions and voices are already sounding that one counteroffensive will not solve the problem , perhaps the next one will have to be prepared. what's up

it is necessary to start some kind of political process inside russia, and maybe even a military process, which, if you translate it into foam, will protect the power within russia itself, a war in ukraine, and i think that what exactly is the position, and there is no other one , it should be adapted to this ? well, then the question arises, ukrainians have been waiting for more than a year. well, how are they waiting? no one is waiting for anything. but how would nadezhda have been in the past? or they will take to the streets in huge numbers, not 20,000, not 40, not 60, but 150,200, nothing happens, as far as it is possible to believe , and people who somehow criticize the opposition

. here you are one of the representatives of such critics. how or opanamarel says that something must be done, uh, with weapons, you can’t prove anything to anyone with words , putin just shoots you, or him, there ’s riot police, someone. that is, there are people who are completely radically different. the socialist expression of society is so clear, but at the end of the day, they express a radically different point of view, and they arouse my interest, and because i see that this is not just what he told me , let's come up with something, let's call someone . let's go somehow, concretely, do something already if there is a chance. only you are the central issue .

looking for money to buy weapons to ship them to russia because everything else doesn't work. you said that even 150 million will leave russia in its current state. the number of people does not solve the question of power. the number of unarmed people does not solve the problem. 140 million will leave. i know there are a million people who will be armed, study power, and they will win this battle, therefore, in fact, it is necessary to try, in any case, this year is decisive in many ways, yes, with the help of the west, somewhere with the help of gromov's forces, this is a different question. it is already possible to discuss it, but it is possible to adopt exactly this tactic . all the others simply do not work. in two decades, we will try everything that is only possible. everything is only possible except for weapons. it means to humble yourself that you will defeat this power in russia. putin's kremlin can only be attacked by armed means. this is now and the demand of some kind of radical, conditionally

, we call it a wing, and positions will be imposed precisely on this representation to achieve agreement with him. of all the forces that the liberal post-liberal anti-liberal right-left centrists and so on, that is, if everything converges in this chapter, here we have a second list of tasks completed, the task is already in the bryansk raids, you know, and not in that they will come out with specific slogans, 10 points, a student of the family are they standing? russia is in such a position that china determines who will be its president. well , he came from the earth and says, “here are you, or made for the next year .” it was not about the elections, it was said about the future of the russians as a whole , so that your future is putin and, uh, it is possible to change this advice.

we don't have a very reliable sociology, but if any percentage, ok, one percent of russian people are not political elites, not positional ones who understand that the armed path is important because in belarus, we also saw a million people on the street, but they all took off their slippers and white with their socks, they stood on some benches and said something with balls. now it seems that some people are appearing. we will play already , they say that we understand that we need to arm ourselves, but so that not 25 people come out, not 250, and not the entire opposition and she even has at least one 140th part, so that 1 million russians who have played, i accept for myself the option that it is necessary to take up weapons

. it doesn't really matter of course, people don’t take judges, is the percentage one or less or more ? it’s really who considered it. well, it’s just that the belarusian experience, including on the other hand, and there if other people for this reason, why come here about the fact that all requests peaceful protests, all requests for a change of power, not by armed peaceful means, they do not give anything , because the power in russia is actually even worse than in belarus, because the belarusian compact small one still has variants of er transgranichnosti determined from ukraine half of klinovskogo can easily cross and run to minsk to the capital in a few hours, but if he wants to, yes, and russia is not like that , you know, with russia, everything is more complicated , here is belarus, it is mono-ethnic russia, it is complicated, and so on . i'm sure that there are people in any nation who have long-willed people with such impudence . they always exist in russia. they are another matter. it's

a complete fact that they are all located in the liberal part. not a fact at all. i don't even even there is a minority, but these are people who, in general, are ready for the sake of this, for the sake of this goal , for the change of power in russia to take the most decisive steps, they can be . the political position in emigration was able to emit this process, this process is directed to noise , it’s very difficult, it’s not simple, but it’s handed out in your hands . how to write in the bible. i like the prices, when the brushvili tell me, you know how to shoot the balls, but i don’t know who saw it. a beautiful scene will live. that’s how, if this one percent will turn to the position, he says, send us weapons, transport him, drag him across

the border, give us the opportunity, oh, obressiyu yes, but they will say no. let's go around with specific placards. well, then nothing will work, you understand. it will end as it has already ended in white socks and on benches . that's the problem, by the way, the guy is beating us. как которые сегодный клиновского после тереомулсион сейчас находится в украине vzu, this is the symbol, you understand that's why well, i welcome any request from the opposition to at least start such a conversation, he will probably start soon, yes, that is, he started it. i also meet a lot of people here . open, you understand there, too, your fear is there, too, familiar life is not something you want to take, it carries such a responsibility, god knows what this is still a ghost, that is, this is a problem, that is, mark, see i will ask for such a thing now a superphilosophical question. it concerns without a doubt the kremlin and the kremlin’s neighborhood. why? well, i asked myself this question a long time ago, many years ago

, many dozens of times. why dictators are very often not patriots. they simply say that they are patriots, they are all super patriots, but hitler already sees death. not only himself, but also the death of that german, and the emperor of japan with everything and from the second opera i understand that well, that’s all already well, that’s all we’re losing, all the same, we ’re continuing putin already the whole world is saying well , dude, you won’t have a victory no, i i will continue to destroy the foundations of russia's economy and philosophy, the russian as a culture, he does everything so that russia does not exist at all, and the answer is very simple, everything is dictators, the truth is in the finitely determined . they

already fear the height of their power. for patriots, that is, they hate this nation, they are the main misanthropes, you know, suffering for the country, because they consider the people to be innate, any manifestation of loyalty, and they don’t remember how. well, live like that they will perceive how i accept the threat to myself and therefore, yes, at all times, and especially in russia, especially in russia, especially in russia, where is the cryptocratic power, the most important one, the kambradorskaya, which exported this capital. why, in order to create prosperity for yourself outside the borders of russia, don’t believe in the future of russia, that’s it due to the fact that he is afraid of his own people , he is afraid that this people can scratch him, and everything is due to these knee-jerk reasons. putin is the main anti-patriot of the brand, which is worse , i think, and he is so anti-russian. he turned to china, you will remember. yes, that is clear. yes, maxim is ready to sell to china