[000:00:00;00] in ukraine, the seats of the moscow patriarchate and its structural division must also be implemented by the tomos issued in the 19th year , which is exactly what the economic situation foresees and stipulates that all settlements must then take place at the inter-church level . well, there is a government bill that provides that it will be necessary create another commission and conduct an assessment, accordingly, gave another one in the 19th year, there was a parade assessment, in the 23rd year, there was an assessment, then another one will be conducted, and after all, it will prove for the third time that the uoc is such and then the mp should leave it, as pasha is leaving it on this mercedes, so they should leave it. and if they are the moscow patriarchate, and they are the moscow patriarchate, then we call for this decision to be adopted as soon as possible and for law enforcement agencies and state officials to have simple reinforced concrete foundations for not

for violence but for legal actions regarding the return of the reserve of the ukrainian people. she would have behaved differently and would have agreed to some dialogue that you are talking about. i think that there would simply be an initiative then, and the state would have it is more difficult for the moscow patriarchate to concentrate on one point . well, that is why we also propose that not only the kiev-pechersk lavra and the historical and cultural reserve should be returned to the ukrainian people. but there are also other historical temples that we have in different communities in different regions, it is also worth raising the question of their return to the management of the relevant local self-government bodies or, if it is at the national level , then to the executive power bodies, and i

think that then they would have less of such aggression of such a desire to show and give the last and decisive fight. because few people can stand up to the people and in the end we see that they did not understand anything. we see in the situation in khmelnytskyi yesterday that they are still trying. excuse the last barking. we hear that they are somewhere there the boy was hit somewhere there, they got into a fight somewhere there, they are screaming and cursing, that's all, eh, they should have dismissed and instead answered the questions of their own believers, that is, their own parishioners . how did it happen that she lied to them all these years and decades that they are the moscow church and even then something must be done to transition or at least negotiate with the orthodox church of ukraine, mr. rostyslav, in your opinion , didn't pavlo, er, the one who petro lebid become a bargaining chip between the uoc mp and the state well, it just turns out that they got rid of him as the biggest irritant, and

will it not happen again? everything will return to the way it was before, because you yourself mentioned that there are many more such churches of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine, and not only the clergy behave there but also the parishioners of these churches are very, very aggressive, well, look, literally on the day we happened, well, the swans of the lower lavra and the so-called, and there, the head of nuphrius, metropolitan nukrius, and together with that paul, they prayed, and onuphrius called, in fact, to the same thing , that is, to say that there is someone there it makes it difficult if someone in power was hoping for some kind of understanding, which means that they switched to loyalty and so on. it seems that this is some kind of council on your screen, and if someone was hoping for some kind of understanding there or some political one, then these are simply not the right people and on and structure, they fear the mask more than god. not to mention the ukrainian state, that is why it was necessary to act a little in advance, but

since you already know the conditional method , it is too late to say so, then there is another way , the one he is talking about, which is to ban the moscow church in ukraine and to speak also about other historical buildings , i’m just talking about the fact that sanctions were introduced against paul and antony, but paul was under house arrest , and antony, as you mentioned the day before, as we can see, was serving in the lavra together with the onuphrians or there is no contradiction in this, well, you know, pavlo also spoke and nadiya pointed out with these curses, with these watering of your colleagues, behind all these conversations that you presented in the plot, when i understand it already, the sbu submitted what is called only pots, there it is possible, especially those who follow i think that many similar questions can be raised from this actor, so i think that it is simply that any boundaries have already been crossed and any trapeze has broken in, but the same can be said about

antony, the same can be said about others there the leaders are far from the only one, that's why it would be very dangerous here to let the situation go to its own devices, because the further it drags on, the more they will try to raise their strength to incite this enmity, you see, they have fallen a lot here, they are leading this in the regions, including and obviously, this is the reaction of society’s response, so here we need to act simply in advance and we really hope that now it will not be postponed and this etherism will be forgotten at the time, which is very popular and will still be calm without violence and without any actions incompatible with martial law and still payment will be made. and in your opinion, this without violence depends on well, because so far we see violence and attack aggression only on the part

of the uoc mp, that is, what can the state do here apart from dialogue police and apart from legislative documents of the legislative framework what can the state do to avoid such an aggressive aggressive confrontation in this matter? well, i will say briefly , you see that paul violated the law and that the state was able to apply measures to him. we are watching, actually, this is also precisely about people who have been told one thing for 30 years, and now i somehow need to understand that the church is taking part in this war and not on the side of their state. i think that different believers and parishioners also have different lauras, and moreover, there are different methods and forms of non-violent work with parishioners because they are citizens

of ukraine after all. i think that the opportunity was simply given to think about the head of the moscow patriarchate still thinking about the fact that there is a case in court and similar but even if the government decided to wait until the court decision , it will be soon, in a few weeks, the court should meet. well, there will be an obvious appeal , there will be further appeals. but nevertheless, this ball will be unraveled sooner or later and therefore simply do not create a point of effort for this type of parishioner when they have to defend the laurel at any cost. just to show that the moscow patriarchate as such will have no place in ukraine and they simply will not be opposed to everything ukrainian society and the ukrainian state, everywhere in the regions and communities actually mentioned the trial that will take place in a few weeks, 60 days, we know house arrest, but why do you think

the brothers of the uoc mp did not come to the court to support paul, only the lawyer was next to him? well, you see everything is just a continuation of this line in which we say that there are not so many of them, in fact, they scared us here , as she said, be afraid and be afraid that there will be some rallies and everything else, there is no such thing and there will not be, and it is precisely about this topic that they cannot give the opportunity to provoke and create such a source of instability and , er, collect er, well, the most aggressive of its representatives , so i think that if everything is now put into the logic of the fact that the moscow church should not be in ukraine, there are no mothers of movement and historical buildings, then there will be much it's easier with that situation, in short. and how can the events around the lavra develop further ? are there

any scenarios in your opinion? a scenario that will be harmful to the state and society , there is some kind of forceful seizure or something like that. which of these scenarios would provide for a gradual resolution, this is one of those that seem to have decided to go ahead and wait for the court's decision to remove no more diodes and the like, but that's it it is threatened by the fact that for many such radical elements in the moscow patriarchate and for many of their curators in the russian orthodox church, it may give the impression that something may come out of them and it may then be delayed and uh, you can to create a long-term problem here with our own hands, that's why we actually advocate another scenario that would provide for, well, after all, it is said in the scriptures that whether your word is yes or no , it is still not the place to say that in the moscow patriarchate it is not the place to clearly define it

after all what is the mechanism er and what is the responsibility for er staying in the russian orthodox church in ukraine er and then let them determine how they act further because they did not manage to tell that they are not the moscow church, that's the commission that was acting now she clearly placed the dots does not give well in the end, anyone can read their charter. although they didn't publish it, there are enough open sources. they don't even hide that they are connected to orthodoxy through the russian orthodox church, so just say that nora, then you choose either russia or ukraine , this

, i think, will speed up the resolution of this issue. with the pochaiv lavra in almost all regions, because even under kuchma, they were leased for use. yanukovych completed this , uh, indefinite, long-term, free of charge, and so on. i think all available mechanisms for such a transfer were used, and in practically every region, every regional center in the district the center everywhere is the main temples that have historical and cultural value from just pearls of cultural history , for example in chernihiv , you are right about the pochaiv lavra to once again the regional centers of any we can see it is the moscow church in its historical temples, and that is exactly what has a proposal to make an inventory, check, investigate , and execution is a security agreement, a so-called contract that clearly undertakes to comply with the monument

of security legislation, unfortunately, this is your colleagues very often they say about this that they unfortunately, they violate the terms of their own use , and on this basis it is possible to terminate its contracts and, at the same time, resolve the issue of canonical relations regarding how they still saw themselves moscow church well, then then you are not the church of the aggressor state with all the appropriate settings if they are ukrainian orthodox but want to resolve this some canonical status well then there is the orthodox church of ukraine then please i am the negotiation process i have many historical precedents but then peacefully without violence go to the negotiations and the orthodox church of ukraine i spoke many times about negotiations without any preconditions, and it is no longer up to the state and you and me to dictate how they will agree among themselves, but the main thing is to start negotiating so far they don't want so far they think that they will win the ukrainian society of the ukrainian state, but now , especially in the context of a full-scale invasion, no

society is, the state cannot afford this i thank you for joining the broadcast rostyslav pavlenko people's deputy of ukraine representative of the profile committee was we are in direct contact, thank you. well, in the meantime , ukrainian ex-people's deputy, businessman, lyricist, pc mp, vadym novynskyi shined in zurich, switzerland. i will add that now novynskyi is under the sanctions of ukraine during this reform, he personally served in the sunday service in the church of the resurrection of christ of the russian orthodox church around the church, but there are ukrainian flags hanging around the church, a portrait of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi , our colleague, the correspondent of radio svoboda in zurich, novinsky said in a comment on radio svoboda that he does not live anywhere now and he came to switzerland from germany to return to ukraine in order to support, for example

, the governor of the kiev-pechersk lavra pavlo currently has no plans novynskyi answers that he literally works for peace in ukraine , as you said, yours came here from ukraine, ger mania, like in germany, just like that, on foot , not on foot. this is due to the pressure on the bishopric, the priests, uh, the falsification of facts, not a single case that was started there eight months ago, it is not necessary to complete it, everything , everything, the main events are simply lies and

manipulation, the law enforcement officers must be omitted the anti-terrorist committee of russia accused the special services and supporters of the anti-corruption fund of oleksiy navalny for the murder of maksym fomin, who called himself avenkor vladler of the tatars, in addition, the investigative committee of russia already reported on the detention of daria trepova, at first she was called a suspect in the murder, because the investigative committee opened a criminal case specifically under the article murder. however, the article was later reclassified as a terrorist attack. and according to the investigation , a box with a statuette in which there was an explosive device was installed, the russian media also write that the security of the institution did not want to let her in. however, she asked for help from the tatar himself and then went to the coffee shop. during the detention, trepova said that she had been framed. it is interesting that the head of the communist party of the soviet union, wagner yevgeny prigozhin, said that he would not be held responsible for this event to the ukrainian special services, according to him, it may be the work of literally individual radicals

, the russian media also write that previously the cafe where the tatar was blown up belonged to prigozhino well, it is worth adding that the institute for the study of war generally ignores that the murder of tatarsky may also be a warning to the founder of the communist party wagner himself, the murder of fomin may have been intended as a warning to prigozhin, who is increasingly questioning the main theses of the kremlin about the war in ukraine and even a scythe signals an interest in to the russian presidency, either in competition with putin or as his successor , fominna's biography and behavior are similar to prigozhin's biography, since both, after imprisonment and pardon, became by well-known ultra-nationalist figures, i will add that the murdered tatarsky was born in makivka, donetsk region, he was not a journalist, he supported the war of the russian federation against ukraine, he fought as part of the pro-russian forces in

donbas, as the media write before the war in 2014 , tatarsky was in prison for armed robbery of a bank later was engaged in propaganda activities as well as kremlin blogs, in particular known for the fact that after the ceremony of the so-called acceptance of ukrainian regions into russia, he published a video, you can now see it on the screen with backstage, in which he promised to kill everyone, defeat her, rob her, about the fact that he died during an explosion in the street bar cafe in the center of st. petersburg, it became known the day before in the evening, the russian media also reported that the event was a creative evening of tatar , and about 100 people were present from the explosion another three dozen people were injured in the cafe well, the actual explosion was apparently caused by a statuette given to the tatar ivan preobrazhensky, a russian political scientist from prague, joins our broadcast ivan good

evening i greet you good evening well here the ukrainian special services are officially accused in moscow of the institute for the study of war says that prigozhin's warning is possible because of the liquidation of tatarsky and prigozhyn himself nods to the right of the radicals, who in your opinion could it be profitable to kill tatarsky , how influential was he in the russian media space, well, in the russian media space he was elastic by the only so-called military leader, i.e. , the rpg, which is the sole justification for russian aggression against ukraine after february 24, which constantly advocated from the position we know about the prigozhyns that there was a conflict between the prigozhyns and the ministry of defense, so the majority of the popular so-called military people quickly moved to the positions of the ministry of defense , they want to do this, they were cut off together with the entrance hall, and the so-called tatarsky, rather, remained in the

positions of the prigozhyns this is a rather important fact, therefore, in principle, the version that it could be a signal and the beauty cannot be ruled out, especially since we know that indeed it is so including him personally, it may not be there from the other side . it is completely calm . it is a provocation of the russian special services. because they are actually now the main culprit. more especially propagandists are not close to the russian special services about the fact that the girl who allegedly moved this statuette was once a supporter of the mass movement about the fact that a positional

journalist living in ukraine set her up for this, not in general in some way, they are trying to reduce all this to the theory supported by the state-backed anti-corruption fund of alexei navalny , alexei navalny, the next court is coming soon. the name of the pseudo-poya scheme in russia already exists when the organization is accused, and then anyone who does not hide his membership in this organization can be charged with collective guilt, which is called jehovah's witnesses in russia they banned the palm fund itself with corruption. well, alexey navalny can come, well, the latest version, of course, that it was really possible , in principle, to be organized by someone from ukraine, who , how, in what way, what about the fact that the russian investigation cannot be trusted

146%. we don't understand what she is saying. this is the girl who brought this bust to yakova. was it really her, and not until some normal independent investigation is conducted that the russian government in the regime, it is impossible to understand that this is the so-called high-rise, where are we, who are the investigators, it is impossible to establish what actually happened there, there is no one who will make different statements, it is possible that there will even be someone who will take responsibility ivan, here are the statements of tatarsky, in which he actually recognized the presence of russian military in donbas since 2014 , when the kremlin was baptizing participation in the war in ukraine, this could play a role in the events we are talking about now, or for the kremlin, in principle, it is no longer important to deny what is happening now

. well, i think there is no point in reminding him that it is not prudent from the kremlin's point of view to state such a long time ago. more than enough, the more that there are more clashes , for example, around conflicts in the control of some businesses by enterprises in the occupied territories, it is known that the same zakhar prilepin when some time eh-eh did not play the role of a mercenary there, he managed to do something himself, maybe there are some that is why there are absolutely no gangster showdowns, the more so that we understand that this is like a blogger, like a writer, in fact , she is not for an ordinary fight kiev bandit well, you remembered about the fact that it is hardly possible to count on any kind of rassle results

of this investigation. until a-a . in any case, one of the versions is that the national intelligence committee accused a-a of the murder . recognition of the right to the work of the russian special services. here they announced the ukrainian special services in the murder of dugyna, and now , in fact, in the center of st. petersburg, the ukrainian special services were allegedly able to carry out such work. what kind of reaction does society expect in such statements, well, on the one hand, yes, this is an unconditional recognition of the imperfection of the work , at the same time, we understand that one way or another, from the technical point of view, it was socialist because of it how it was organized, we can call it this father, no, the essence is technical, it doesn’t change, it will prevent such a kind of periodicity , some well, how do you say it , i don’t know, an attack on some individual persons

is absolutely impossible. countries in order to completely avoid such a possibility , respectively, from one country, it is obvious that a significant part of russians will therefore at least not be destroyed. more than enough, these people will clearly appreciate the work of the russian special services, or a sign of dignity that does not protect their agents, their rpg-dists, on the other hand, of course , the special services use it, including for attacks, as if heated in society, look , they are blowing us up, for example, the st. petersburg governor alexander beglov tried to link to this a terrorist attack in the subway, which

he himself was the second in his time . here it is like terrorists. there is no difference , there is no russian aggression against ukraine . it is clear that no one mentions this in such statements, so there are both minuses and pluses for them. what they can detain for conditionally to knowledge to write this off in lena’s fbk bulk, that is, er, in parallel with something, maybe they are conducting i don’t know real investigations to use it immediately for political purposes, if something expensive happened, they most likely it is something else, they would have come to the main story if they now need an additional term in payat, that is, they use it situationally and technologically

let’s say so for themselves in their interests ivanovy now you are talking about what they they can use it to fight against the fund of the bulk base a-a mm personally in future courts and can they use it for the war? well, because now kremlin propagandists are very active. excuse me. everything is in this spirit, but will it be used for the next wave of mobilization? is it possible for this to mobilize society, which i was told about once here, there is such a possibility under one wet condition, if this murder was organized by the russian special services, exactly with this goal, if this the big thing is what is called a conselological special operation, then unconditionally - it will be used precisely for inciting additional hatred, this is at the

very moment when this obviously, the covert mobilization that has been going on for most of the winter should come to the surface of russia , it should try. well, at least they will resist the ukrainian counteroffensive or attack itself. we don’t know what they are planning strategically there, these russian generals, yes. if it's just a showdown between some russian security forces, then that's all there is to this cry and 100 russian propagandists, it will end in the course of the next 2-3 days because there's more the first two factors are sound . they will immediately

bring it in to demonstrate their loyalty to vladimir putin personally, his closest entourage , one way or another, not about dim sotriven, the willingness to hate the murder of ukrainians, and so on the loyalty that they say in every such case happens accordingly. as soon as this is said, if they do not have any other far-reaching goals, then it will all stop , because in fact, if the mobilization has not yet come to the surface, then they absolutely do not need to additionally intimidate the russians, there will be no effect absolutely obratny understood that now a new offensive will begin, the russians will start a mass, basically, they will ask to evade in any way from participating in military actions

, from getting there, and not only yesterday they announced a hotline phone, there is something for those who want to serve under a contract from the first of april, they have a call for conscripts according to the new rules, there is no, they are new , including technologically, all of this was directed so that people could not be smeared from electronic novels. for some reason, they will frighten these people additionally. no, it doesn't fit like that, yes. in this building, ivan thank you. thank you. ivan preobrazhensky, a russian political scientist from prague , was in direct contact with us. to the russians to spend the rest of their lives in the basement in conditions identical to those in which the residents of chernihiv oblast arrived during the russian occupation. zelensky said this after visiting the village of yagidny in the chernihiv region, in particular , visiting the basement where the occupiers tortured and held local

residents hostage for almost a month. today is the anniversary of the release of yagidny residents. from the russian occupation , we came from such torture, such a terrible path , the path of absolute heroes, from children to people of elderly adults, different, as we passed and passed i thank them for the fact that they survived and were able to wait for our soldiers and in order to tell the whole world, as well as the tragedy brought by the russian federation. spend the rest of your days in the basement and with a bucket instead of a toilet, that's basically it. for today, that