[000:00:00;00] tive people who enjoy respect in their region and are potentially capable of non-violent resistance, even armed resistance, there is no such thing as the so-called elite , that is, the topic is what the local community is based on, and therefore, if you want to control it, you have to destroy this layer, you must destroy it, that is active people , but let's remember something. we sent mobile groups there in april. i see vorzel for a week in irpin, these are photos. russians shot people on the street on bicycles not because they were pro-ukrainian or they were deputies or they were journalists. they did not know who these people were, they shot them because they could, and for me this is a sign that this is political persecution, which is prohibited by international

humanitarian law, but they are targeted because they concern a specific person, they have turned to total terror let's talk more about this, so we'll come back in a short break, and i have an important question about this , because many of us still imagine a tribunal over putin, that's how it sounds, and everyone thinks that one day they can potentially attract the responsibility of putin himself. and what about those ordinary soldiers who did this? as you said, they killed people on bicycles, they themselves pulled the trigger, they killed these people, and they should also be held responsible. how should they be punished? talk about the ukrainian people and their responsibility, let's talk further in a few minutes. 1+1 returns to the air, the e-e discussion platform night watch continues the discussion of the important topic of crimes

by russians in the occupied territories of their responsibility and before the break, we came to what is actually happening the genocide of the ukrainian people, the russians are destroying not only active pro-ukrainian and pro-ukrainian-minded people, they are simply destroying these people in a row, ms. anastasia , what is happening, if you know, on the remains of the temporarily occupied kherson oblast now, well , first of all, on the left bank, uh, all this time is happening harsh repression of the ukrainian population well, the last thing you can remember is that they force you to take russian passports. well, how does this happen, for example, they set up roadblocks in the cities, people are not allowed to go, for example, to the market, understanding that people want to shop there and a person needs to go there to at least provide himself with food, but

only on the condition that if a person has a russian passport or to the cemetery, the last thing will be the case, now they have already put forward such a demand that people at the cemetery on the left bank, in some localities, they can visit their relatives only if they have a russian passport a-a hmm, what else is going on, well, from some localities a-a there are reports that children's phones are being checked for so that the child was not registered in the ukrainian educational process, which takes place online, it is not everywhere , but there is still such information, they grab people on a daily basis and take them to prisons and basements. these are usually occupied departments . -e of the police or these are administrative buildings such as for example the administrative building

of the management of the north crimean canal or this is the building next to the dolphinarium in skadovsk or this is the orchid hotel in henichesk or for example the last thing that is known is on the arabatskaya strelika there is a whole recreation complex. what is it? well, it is of the soviet type, these are old houses. but nevertheless , they converted these houses. now they serve as cameras. they keep people there. there are two security perimeters there, so it is impossible to get there in the civilian population there, that is, if we we know that in kherson it was possible for some of them to be active in transmitting some programs if the family knew for sure that their native e-e was being received there, then it is impossible here. and how many people can receive there? they send people, well, in that investigation on radio svoboda, i read in the story that

the guy was just leaving work, a car stopped next to him, they asked where are you going, he said, come home from work, well, sit with us, we went, and that 's how he was sent to the pre-trial detention center, kept for several days, tortured, then released is there a principle at all? is it just a simple outrage on the territory without rights for today ? in general, a certain principle can be singled out . there were different waves. they were immediately occupied by activists, journalists, volunteers, then, closer to september, they began to take away the training camps of teachers , this was explained by the fact that the goal was to establish the educational process according to russian standards , so we had many educated teachers on the coast , in particular, who got into these training camps and there they were trying to get the schools or the school principals to switch to the russian standard of e-e education e-e then

it was the doctors e-e before e-e the russians wanted to achieve that- they probably cooperated with the russian federation and m- m possible they helped or switched again to the russian standard of treatment, and right now it is the most popular motivation for detaining ukrainian civilians, the russians are looking for gunners, correctors, and actually they always manage to find someone who really is a corrector, but they often end up in prison people who passed by, for example , we had such a case when a person drove by without knowing that the base was captured, it is on the left bank, there is a small tourist base there, and a person drove by and ran to it russian soldiers took him away, tortured and beat him for a long time and got him to say what he was doing there, in fact he was just

going to see his mother. he didn't even know that there were russian soldiers behind the fence. it was an important thing to note. it's all together. that is, there is no no possibility to protect your life, your health, your rights, your freedom and your loved ones, and that's why in our questionnaires i always ask what you were arrested for and i still remember because it has been going on for 9 years in the 14th year, the first and conclusion was that there is no algorithm of behavior that you must adhere to, to ensure you one hundred percent that you will not suddenly cross the road in front of someone's car, and someone there in that car will not like it and you will not be taken away from the territory without rights and freedoms absolutely, that is, roughly speaking, you can want the arrival of the russians and you may have a portrait of putin hanging in your bedroom, but this does not guarantee you anything, and to what extent is this a war crime

? i will say the first thing, because war crimes are often confused with war crimes , war crimes are violations of the disciplinary statutes of the armed forces of ukraine , and there are such crimes as looting, voluntary abandonment of a unit, etc. on the systematic and widespread nature of this practice, we can already say that these are crimes against humanity, in fact, this is exactly the assessment made by the international commission of inquiry, which was created by the un human rights council in a recent report, they wrote that they were shocked by the amount of torture and treatment of civilians in the occupied territories, and that this is necessary, of course, because they have proof of qualifications, but they are considered

crimes against humanity, who will be responsible for these crimes, let's take the latest case investigators from they found out the specific name of the person who gave the order to bomb the mariupol drama theater and serhiy troshchenko's maternity hospital. this is a russian guy . the question arises if this mr. serhiy will go on vacation to egypt to sunbathe and drink something. on the inclusive or dive with diving and look at the fish and the beautiful landscape of the red sea, he can be detained here on vacation or the probability that he will accidentally die there on yes and he his she is more obvious well, let's now talk about the problem of prosecution about the existing mechanisms oh well the first problem is that you are talking about a person who was identified. and we have tens of thousands of criminal proceedings , more than 70,000 are opened in the office of the general

prosecutor's office, and you can imagine how many first of all, human efforts are needed to establish the culprits in each proceeding, and this is precisely the purpose of this whole machine, because we must give a chance for justice to every person who suffered from e international crimes, and not only to those people who suffered from high-profile crimes to which media attention is focused or which is mentioned in the reports of international organizations, i.e. the first problem is that the national system is simply overloaded, but that's how it is, for example, when these russian soldiers leave somewhere in turkey or to egypt, but it is possible there if they are installed yes, and they have been officially declared suspicious here we are talking about two levels, we have the level of the international criminal court, there is the level of the national system - this is what exists . opened under universal jurisdiction in several dozen

countries that have the opportunity to open criminal cases because international crimes are considered to be a matter of concern for the entire international community and therefore even if their citizens do not appear there or it committed on the territory of another country, if their legislation allows it, they can open it and some countries have opened it, for example , i met with the prosecutor general's office and the relevant department of france. of these two, this is vladimir putin and his commissioner for the protection of children's rights, maria lvova bilova, more than 120 surrendered to three countries that are parties to the rome statute, they owe this warrant finally perform only in relation to these two people, if we are talking about the international criminal court

, if we are talking about those whom ukraine is investigating and bringing official charges, then for this there are international legal bilateral agreements between countries and there is the interpol system, and the interpol system in we have had big problems for a long time, i remember how they couldn't bring igor strilkov there, he is a zhehirkin because they said that there could be political motives and well , in general, this is an organization that, let's be honest , is managed in chinese and russian the leaders impose their order and influence, and it is quite difficult to interpolate. the interpolator was often used to persecute precisely the opposition from authoritarian countries, they gave them a red card and detained them in european countries and caused her a lot of trouble, because until

they figure out that this is actually a political motive , but it does not work so easily in the other direction when it is really necessary to detain war crime suspects, do you remember the story when a powerful earthquake occurred in turkey, one of the rescuers went, they recognized him later that he is here served under anything and killed some people. well, it was also in social networks, the history was actively discussed, and there is a third point that should not be forgotten, because it is all based on the good will of the countries to fulfill all these agreements, but hungary declared that she will not be with vladimir putin if he comes to them, she will not comply with this order, this arrest warrant, and the international criminal court , she interprets the vienna convention so differently.

there is no criminal court, there is no international police , this is completely different mechanisms will be involved, sustainability, you mentioned the resources we need to carry out a full investigation of these criminal proceedings, now there are 70,000 of them and the number is increasing, and the case is not yet closed , they are still being investigated, do we have a human a resource, a professional resource, in order to quickly investigate this and not to turn these investigations into, well, excuse me, we have an example of the maidan case, when we all wait , wait, the years go by there are a lot of questions about these investigations, but this is where we want to quickly understand and close these cases in order to bring human rights organizations to justice. they are often in such a position that we criticize public authorities and point out where they could have worked better to protect human rights etc., but here i can't even criticize anyone because it's simply impossible, we don't have enough human

resources, i always say that you are an international partner in an initially full-scale invasion sent a large number of consultants to a greater extent . including the ukrainian authorities, so that it also promoted that we need to involve an international element at the level of investigation and justice, that is, a group saying, we need a specialized investigative body in which worked, including international investigators, international detectives together with national investigators and a specialized court also with international judges and national judges

or a separate specialized chamber in the supreme court of ukraine, and this is what is needed, this mechanism needs to be created and needs to be strengthened, otherwise , frankly, we will go well, then we let's go, uh, we will have priority cases, some priority categories, well, sexual violence, everyone is interested, the media will write reports, the attention of donors, well, but i do not belittle the importance of investigating such the type of crime is more than a hundred. especially since it is a very meaningful hidden type of crime. i know from personal experience that people can tell you the most terrible details of torture . and you know from the people who sat next to you that this person was subjected to sexual violence, but she prefers not to talk about it just forget that it was, but there are other crimes too , they must also be investigated. today we are talking about the fact that justice should be

visible and that the trial of putin, so called , should take place in buch, where numerous crimes were committed and people were abused and they killed ukrainians, but skeptics will say well, we don't believe in the trial of putin , we don't believe that's what the skeptics say. what can you, anastasia, say such skeptics personally? do you believe that one day there may be a trial of the presidents? well, i think that we are at that stage , when we need as much as possible pay more attention to the collection of information and there well, whether or not our goal will be to collect everything and help the bodies of e-e justice establish these crimes or whether you will then be putin or not will there be a trial in what form well, god forbid that it happens focus on the crimes, we have a somewhat different approach. back in april of last year, i began to ask myself who we

are documenting all this for. it is not important to document it, but i am not a historian. i do not do this for the national archives, which is also important, but i do it as a lawyer for that that sooner or later the people who commit the crime with their own hands, the people who give them orders, make a decision about this crime when they are punished, and then when you look at the existing international and national architecture, you understand that it is unable to fulfill this task, and we have been working on it since last year in order to change the global approach to justice in the field of war crimes and i would say more broadly international crimes, because we are used to talking about war, but there are crimes against humanity, there is the crime of aggression, there is genocide, which you mentioned today, which is also the topic of a separate conversation, and there are several tasks here, and the first of them, it was picked up and even these , i would say, initiated by the ukrainian state itself, the creation of a special tribunal

for the crime of aggression, so that the people who made the decision to initiate the planning and start of the war, which resulted in all these crimes which we are now recording, they were punished. and this is one of the examples of the fact that it is necessary not only to document, but also to change the architecture of international justice and national justice , what will you do next? i said that i was visualizing this meeting in court in gaza , you said in buchi, but hmm, even a special tribunal will most likely be in gaza, and the netherlands has already said that they are ready to host it there, to become like that, to accept it, then eh and eh and you know, here

i agree with my colleague that it is difficult to predict the future, but we must do everything so that the future that we want is real, and for this we need to manage it with this future, mrs. anastasia . do you believe that we will be able to reach ordinary russians with this information? in belarus, a screen broadcasts lukashenko's and putin's appeals about the war and shows footage of them having sex in buch in irpen . so what do you believe in the fact that we can influence russian society if we convey this

truth to them? no, unfortunately, i don't believe it. i'm listening. people after torture and they say that well, maybe it's funny, they told me that this is a person who was tortured for 5 days and they got humane conditions. she said that they told him about fighting geese well, i don't believe it in all seriousness well, that's what a witness told me, so what to him they said that it was really a white laboratory and everything and it wasn't the last person, it was some captain of the fsb standing or something, well, something, some kind of leadership of the fsb, that's why i personally do not believe that we can maybe because of the punishment, really when, when, first of all, the awareness of the whole world will come, because no, not everyone in the world yet realizes the scale of what we know and what people know , for example, in the occupation. and when it is de-occupied, what will they tell after that ? someone will be punished, the russians

will realize that this is really, well, that's the question culture, unfortunately, it is a culture with violence and denial of human dignity sewn into it, because the russian military committed war crimes, terrible war crimes in chechnya, moldova , georgia, syria, malii plivia they have never been punished, never, they just believe that they have the right to do everything to people that you don't want, and that's why it's so important for me as a lawyer that this legal mechanism finally works and this circle of impunity is broken so that we don't have as with our fellow russian human rights defenders, you know, they have 1 million cases of chechens, they documented everything they could, how it helped them, no one was punished. and because then no one was punished , today they are doing it in ukraine for their crimes, and he and his entourage thanked you

very much for visiting our studio and giving this time is very important. thank you very much. we practice different religions , but we all equally believe in ukrainian independence, we turn to god differently, but we all share the belief that today god is with ukraine, we pray in different languages, but side by side we fight for our state.

for the victory of light over darkness for the victory of will over slavery for the victory of life over death and life will win, we all believe that our dawn will come soon heh pesach itself christ has risen ramadan-kari life will win there are people who do not hide behind their backs who listen to the call of the heart and are the first to go hugs, people of great strength, people of unbroken spirit

, people of good will. glory to the ukrainian volunteers. i lost my job and could not sit idly by the ground all my life . grand for the greenhouse, now i have a job and the whole team thanks to this , too, you see, the state supported me. and now i’m building it together, and we’re building it a little bit, because i’m a job . government grants are available. apply for her job. diya.gov.ua and develop your business. you know, yes. some people, of course, fell out immediately, and some, on the contrary, we became more united, it is like a circle of evil that has come to us. as they say, it flies and that's why we became like native people, even if not

native. when the siren sounds, you have to hide. to the camp in a t-shirt, we came from the city of gulyaipole, e.e., polonsk district, now

we are in the city of zaporizhzhia, there are hostilities due to which we were forced to leave, we left for the city of zaporizhzhia on june 18, for me, the war began at four in the morning on february 24, i did not sleep. i decided to fix it at home, my screen was leaking, this time i turned on the television, the same thing is happening and now you and i were simply left with no other option to protect russia, our people, except the one

we are forced to use today in the house where we lived, there was no hmm basement or such a room that could protect us , our family consists of three children, my husband and i have an older child who is 15 years old, her name

is tanya, there is a middle child who is 9 years old and the youngest is anya, she is three years old, so it turns out, if i understood correctly, that they are tatov's daughters, and the son no longer obeys the mother, yes, children cannot be divided, they are both ours, let 's tell the story of the basement, the story of

how the war started for you on tv i found out, we watched and i don’t remember everything, to be honest, i don’t even remember what was being broadcast, like giving birth, i was taken aback, the siren started to worry, we heard , this is where we were cooking. there was a long table like this. and when you turn from er to the right, you get a staircase. we have a small corridor , then a large one. one room is on the right side , another family has been burned, and on the left, as soon as you enter, our family was sleeping and there there were beds where three more families were sleeping not far from us and there were also two tables where the children were playing