[000:00:00;00] the punishment was awarded by the court to a colony of strict regime. what are the elections? i am from mitsr and i want to be an optimist. i want to end our conversation on an optimistic note. i am more optimistic about belarus than many people in belarus itself. and i am absolutely convinced that in russia all these problems can be solved, it seems to me that in 2-3 days before the trade will begin and lukashenko himself will trade. you don't need prison, you don't need in gaga, be a little weasel, don't forget to influence the hava and i will do everything according to the case, they will cancel all the court decisions, everyone will be released from prison

in front of everyone, they will also forgive everyone and pay some money, moral damage, and so on, only don't touch i will fly to china or the united arab emirates and you won't see me there until the end of days. that is, it's not me, i'm not saying that it will be like that, but i definitely understand that history shows this . who would have thought that milosevic in the 90s we looked at each other, you laughed if you were me or i would say to you, oh, they will put such miloševs in prison, than they will take away the gaguts and there they will be tried, oh, how is it, milošević, where did you give him and judge him? well, he died, is it so that everything is possible , i always say to myself that we are not, i remember i'm just talking about it, it's very good. like yesterday, who knew that everything would end in three days, the army, the entire kgb, the soviet party, the entire regional committees

, raiko, we are regional committees, i don't know what the whole pelicia is there, all the people are sitting and saying we're taking power , nothing happened in three days, it's over that's why i always think we have to wait. okay, maybe the last question: how much do you think lukashenko will be persuaded by putin? how far is lukashenko's trickery greater than putin's trickery? it is obvious that putin wants something from lukashenko, but it is also obvious that we have already seen for more than a year the full-scale participation of belarus in the war against ukraine and they shoot and attack from territories yes, but uh, well, not like you could attack and shoot a-ah well, i don't think that how much they depend on lukashenko, you're in this

anyway, uh, moscow i still don't want to get involved belorussian a-a share of the belarusian army. yes, there is no such attack because there is no trust. here you show how the belarusian a-a troops will behave themselves, belarusian officers, when they are given the order to attack ukraine, no, well the first days of construction, the active phase began, maybe they would have gone because the second army of the world is there, the russian brothers with whom they graduated from the academy together, and now looking at the number of black packets, how is it that they have a second army the world returned to its own way unicorns will shoot, maybe distrust, but maybe there is a full er-er up er-er from the ability

of the lukashenka to defend well, i don't think that er-er, i don't yes, it's better, after all, the belarusian army alone er-er everything that i'm not capable of expressing this is the placement of russian troops on the territory of belarus, this is a belarusian base for the treatment of the wounded, for the repair of equipment, this is to create a nervous atmosphere on the borders, and not only on the borders of ukraine or on the borders of lithuania, on the borders of poland , it is used here. stimulus which is unknown and for that, he knows what to expect, boys, and again, migration blackmail 2 :0 , and he will come up with something else, well, they use it in a twisted way in the ghetto .

lukasha, a belarusian journalist, editor of the european radio, was in touch with us . it was very nice, we will now be me. at least i will definitely think about it like it is there in belarus. as usual, there are 5-7-10 minutes. we just want to show you that antibarkovsky talked to samuel totten - this is also an american professor of history who just studied genocide , what genocide in the world, what is it like, what is it like, what is sudan, what is rwanda, where were these genocides or everyone knows that there are signs of genocide in ukraine, but i always, when i talked to lawyers, asked the lawyer, he says that it is genocide, it is very difficult to prove an aggressive war, it is very easy to prove, and genocide is very difficult legally, i am not an expert, i am not a lawyer

, so samuel totten and antin berkovsky now for 20 minutes you will watch their dialogue and i will definitely see you in just 20 minutes, that's good i congratulate you dear tv viewers , professor samuel totten, a person who professionally studied the genocides of ireland in sudan and is now professor works in ukraine . congratulations, mr. professor. studio with the press. you have a key story. how does what they did in our country fall under the category of genocide? yes, because there are very strange voices when they say that in particular, when the representatives of the united nations say that whatever was done by the russians does not fall under the concept of genocide. unfortunately, until the intentions of the criminal are unknown, it is difficult to make a final

decision about whether something is genocide , murder, torture or mass murder is not necessarily genocide. it could just be mass murder because of torture it is necessary to find out what the criminal's intention is when he or she commits specific atrocities it is not known that the united nations recently published a long report in which the what happened in ukraine is not considered genocide. i questioned such analyzes because i do not think that anyone can now accurately determine what goal putin is pursuing. in order for something to be recognized as genocide, there must be an intention to completely or partially destroy, many will say that there is an intention to kill people, but it must be a specific intention, if the prosecutor's office cannot prove the intention , then there is no genocide, but my position is that there is one obvious

case that is genocide by its nature , but for some reason the un does not think so, it is about children who were taken from their relatives in russia and given to russian families, they went to school there, live in new uri and are subjected to indoctrination in accordance with the convention on genocide, take children away from their relatives, give them to other families, indoctrinate them into a new culture, this is genocide, judging by how many children were taken out and because of what they are going through right now this is her a clear example of genocide usually hesitates not wanting to do anything i would rather they not publish such a position because it sends the wrong signal to the whole world how do we gather such evidence whatever were accepted all over the world in all international institutions. yes, we understand that the international criminal court has already issued a warrant for putin's arrest, this is the case

of the kidnapping of ukrainian children, but we understand that there are a number of other crimes that should be documented and properly classified . personally, i think that many people are concerned is it genocide or not crimes against humanity torture mass murders wanted people to be shot this is the worst that can happen so if the perpetrators are tried for crimes against humanity they will sit in visitors are as much as they would be sentenced for genocide, there is no death penalty , therefore the maximum punishment that an individual criminal can receive is life imprisonment, i think that the scenario of the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and rwanda will be repeated, the prosecutors will study the evidence, they will try to establish whether the intent was full or partial destruction if so, then they recognize that it is genocide

, if not, they will all be tried for crimes against humanity or war crimes, people seem to have an idea of ​​genocide as something holy it's not like all these others, as i already said, are just as terrible as genocide. but we want them to be called genocide . as far as i understand, in ukraine, thousands of people are collecting testimonies , many ukrainians have come for training on how to conduct interviews with victims and witnesses and it is reasonable because these people know the language and they do not need to contact an interpreter. but there are also people like me who come with an interpreter who have experience in the field of crimes against humanity and genocide who ask questions trying to interrogate people in more detail that exactly what happened and who committed these atrocities, such testimony is very important, but even if it was not possible to collect a single testimony in newspapers in magazines all over the world we saw

the places of mass murders in ukraine in buch and other cities if people are interested they do not care about the fate of others and they definitely know that such evidence is taking place, it is important for the prosecutor's office to find out exactly what these crimes are, so that the guilty are imprisoned , we hope for life imprisonment, if not , then at least for 20-30 years, since it will actually be life imprisonment for many, but the professor would like to ask you what we should do with the qualification of the war crimes committed in mariupol. yes, we understand that there were no machetes. they did not cut off the head of the mosque, but they used aviation. they used long-range artillery. they dropped an aerial bomb on the drama theater where people were hiding. recorded testimonies of those people who can describe

what happened there, those people are alive, they drove, they learned a little, everything was in the blood, everything was internal , everything was broken in our heads, how do we do it right to prove those crimes so that no one, not just the executor, but the people at the top of the kremlin pyramid, could hide like this because the army structure provides for subordination from the lowest to the highest level , and we understand that this is the responsibility not only of the pilot, not only of the aviator, but also of his commander, and this goes to the very top again we focus on genocide as if it is the only thing to accuse criminals of to bring them to justice this is not true every war is not genocide but every war is accompanied by by artillery bombardment with mortars by mining by executions in the style of zac groups in ukraine and the soviet union, it is wrong to use the term genocide only because there is

a war and i repeat again that each of these crimes is very important each of these crimes is a terrible atrocity in terms of war crimes, we know that the russians they beat the schools where the children were, we know that they attacked hospitals together with doctors, nurses , patients, pregnant mothers and babies , this is 100% war crimes and they should be in prison as long as the prosecutors can obtain for each specific case, in order to call a war genocide, it is necessary to find the criminal's intention to completely or partially destroy a certain group of people, what should be understood by genocide we are not talking about the destruction of individual people, genocide is the destruction of groups according to the un convention on genocide under the protection of four groups national groups racial groups ethnic groups and religious groups these four groups have now been

somewhat expanded as a result of the international criminal tribunal for rwanda and when in slavia, which was then, which you mentioned can ultimately be interpreted as genocide if the intention is proven, but for me personally, the most important thing is that the guilty be brought to justice if the international criminal court does not come to the conclusion that this person is general putin. his kremlin henchmen committed genocide then ukrainians should not be disappointed because if they are found guilty of crimes against humanity and war crimes, they can still serve life imprisonment or a long term of imprisonment, so it is a question of genocide complicates the situation too much if we talk, for example, about the collection of certain data on war crimes or manifestations of genocide, how to do it in order to correctly build, for example, the current ukrainian case

, the case of russian crimes in ukraine, so on the one hand, we regularly hear the language of hatred that pours from the russian odesa channels part of the russian kremlin high-ranking officials deny the right of ukraine to full state sovereignty to full state sovereignty they are trying to present us as some kind of the people are an underdeveloped people who were created by the austro-hungarian general staff and so on, that is, they are trying to convince the whole world and themselves that we do not exist, this is one moment, the second moment we understand that it is necessary to document not only crimes in the fields, so to speak. and what is called crimes of the top military leadership, and it was extremely difficult to do, for example, in the situation with the third reich. so we understand how fruitfully the nuremberg investigative tribunal had to work in order to prove that

between the specific crimes that were committed representatives of the wehrmacht or nazi military uniforms and the german main leadership of the nsdp were in direct contact. how to do it. just like the prosecutors did in nuremberg . every time putin speaks on television or radio, collect these recordings and comments because he said certain things about ukraine not being a sovereign state, that it is part of russia, that he wants to return what he considers to be russian territory, but he is wrong ukraine is a sovereign state whether putin wants to admit it or not in this international criminal offense there are no justifications although he can deny it all

day long your also as part of the documentation you record exactly where the hostilities took place what weapons were used how many rockets were fired because of in another city, you look at the complete destruction of cities, villages and towns throughout the country, and all this can be documented, you go and film, talk to witnesses, survivors, ukrainian soldiers who eyes saw what these criminals did, this is priceless information, i want to collect evidence that will later show the world exactly what putin did and the war crimes he committed, the crimes against humanity committed by russian soldiers on the ground and the genocide they committed, in particular in buch , but there are many places of mass murders and i feel that, unfortunately , even more of them will be discovered and this may lead to the decision that it was such an intention to try to destroy a part of the ukrainian people and this is something very important

. if we talk about genocide from interviews that i conducted i understand that often when russia entered a city or village, one of the first things they did was to find out who the leaders were and somehow eliminate them, this happened in many genocides, this was the case in cambodia, this was also the case in rudy, you enter, take away the leaders and then the community is starting to fall apart, so this is part of the genocide. therefore, all this must be taken into account. i think it is quite clear to the world, unless you are an ally of russia, which is led by the lies that putin spreads that ukraine is not a sovereign state. absolutely untrue, a complete lie, and in a certain sense it is the same as what stalin did in 1932-33, he came to ukraine , starved people and basically treated ukraine as a component of the soviet union, and treated people

as individuals who have no importance, he behaved with them as he wanted, killing en masse, certain patterns were preserved that we can see. now i mean the famine in ukraine , about which there was a debate for decades, whether it was genocide or not, in the end. people like james mays, who came from the united states to ukraine and taught at the university of kyiv, he was one of those who conducted a study that showed that it was actually a genocide. i think that in many cases, due to the collected evidence , schemes of attacks, schemes of the destruction of entire communities, schemes of the destruction or killing of leaders, the smell of kidnapping children, will be considered in many cases, so i am convinced that the leaders, including putin it will not be possible to avoid responsibility for committed crimes and crimes against humanity or genocide , yes, noginocide involves criminal intent, in addition

to everything other than the characteristics you described and talking about the famines about james mays, the most important and most difficult thing was probably to prove that there was a plan that caused the deliberate destruction of millions of ukrainians . so it was an extremely difficult job and we understand what forces were resisting the fact that for the tools it was possible to convey the truth about the genocide against the ukrainians at that time, jim was mad he was fascinated by ukraine, he loved ukraine , he really wanted the world to understand what happened to the ukrainian people, he diligently collected evidence about what happened to the people when the people from tallinn came with iron with wires and prodding the ground, they tried to find even seeds, they dug in fireplaces, sifted through cold ashes to find seeds

, the intention was to collect as much documentation as possible. water is not in the pot everything was planned and carried out vertically from stalin down, i will say that he achieved his goal when he headed the us commission on famine in ukraine and the documentation he collected was huge and then his goal was to come to ukraine and do further research actually go to russia and find archives there that no one has ever explored and find out exactly what the plan was but he was killed halfway there he was a young man he was beaten and shortly after that he died i think that jim with his plans crossed the path of someone in russia, i don't know if someone will follow in jim's footsteps, he was a brilliant scientist

of his time, he was a professor at harvard, and his whole life was dedicated to conveying to people that the famine in ukraine was not genocide the responsibility of the church , which saw or perhaps sometimes participated in war crimes or acts of genocide, in particular, it is about the classic scheme that was in ireland , maybe that was in sudan. i don't know what happened in sudan, but the question is also of the russian orthodox church when it hears that voice of hatred that pours literally from russian tv channels and how she behaves in that situation. yes, we understand in the number that patriarch kirill supports putin's policy . putin's policy is manifested in what tens of thousands of killed ukrainians are agree with you 100%.

we did not see this in sudan, but we saw in roland, in uranda, there were priests who called on the people here , those who became victims, to come to the churches as a place of refuge. these priests were hutu relatives of the hutu killers. and when they came to the churches, the priests locked the doors behind them and then they invited the killers to torture them to death. also, as you know, there was a radio station run by an extremist and every morning they called the hutus to go to work, and work was an affine for murders, and so every morning there is a direct parallel between what is happening in ukraine and by those ukrainian priests who essentially support putin. as far as i understand, they are collaborators, these priests who speak on the radio or talk to the press, they cooperate with putin against ukraine to force or try to force ukraine to submit to the will of the russians, and this is an international crime, i am ready to say right here and now that many

of these priests will end up on the dock in the international criminal court and , therefore, where will they have time to think that they are not real christians but political agents of putin in general, the investigation of cases in international criminal tribunals continues, in particular, how long does it take to collect the evidence base, how long does it take for all the materials to be qualified and checked, well , the key story is that we understand that the case can be investigated for a year or two , and it can be extended for five or 10 years, i think trials will last quite a long time. as for the individual trials of individual criminals, it is difficult to say because there are lawyers who will try to get these criminals out of prison. it may take a long time, but i think that ukraine is doing very wisely by collecting documentation right now. ukraine is not waiting for the end of the war until all

the atrocities are committed, it is already collecting documentation . the international court of justice is currently collecting documentation and this should significantly speed up the consideration of these cases than it was, for example, in rwanda, because the collection of evidence began only after the genocide ended there , but not to the extent that we see in ukraine, this is a very unique situation in which ukraine is now at stake and i think that not only more alleged criminals will end up in court, but also at the initial stage the court will move quite quickly thanks to the collected documents and , accordingly, thanks to this collection of evidence , more alleged criminals will be brought to the sub-tribunal. situations when criminals who should be held accountable who should be imprisoned for life or get 150 years for the crimes they committed when they managed

to avoid responsibility it is usually disturbing in fact i know that in the case of rwanda there is shchedrik who was the chief priest in kikala, the capital of rwanda, he used the church as a sanctuary. these are his words, he invited tutsi potential victims there, provided them with lodging and fed them, but every night during the week he approached young women and said he wanted to sleep with them if they refused then he was also female gave women to murderers and that was the end of it. this man has not yet been found guilty and he lives quite luxuriously in france. this is an absolute absurdity. if someone seems to be avoiding punishment, then something is wrong. something is wrong with the system, because these people should be brought to justice. if this does not happen, it is unfair to other criminals, it is unfair to

ukraine, and something needs to be done about it. you probably know that an international nominal court can try so many criminals or as many alleged criminals as it wants, if ukraine thinks that they are not doing the work that you think they should do, then ukraine has the right to hold national courts or create a national court to try such criminals it seems to me that the international criminal court is very serious about this issue and wants to bring criminals to justice, starting from the top with putin, it is a great pity that we have to end our conversation, sharov , thank you professor , i want to remind our tv viewers that professor semyul toten worked for them on the air of the espresso tv channel a person who professionally studied genocides and war crimes, in particular, he worked in roland in

sudan, now he works in ukraine, why here in i have sensitive teeth. they eat ice cream, pain , cold air , pain, sweet pain. the dentist recommended lacalut sensiti what effectively reduces the sensitivity of teeth. and real madrid vs. chelsea the loudest matches exclusively on megogo attention health bracelet sale for only uah 199 ergonomic design clear display and simple one-button control your reliable an assistant in any situation measures the pulse, pressure, shows the number of steps taken and calories burned, displays messages from the phone and many other useful functions

, the strap is adjustable , will fit the wrist of any fullness, take advantage of such a favorable offer, a health bracelet for only uah 199, call attention sale health bracelet for only uah 199 ergonomic design clear display and simple one-button control your reliable assistant in any situation measures pulse pressure shows the number of steps taken and calories burned, displays messages from the phone and many other useful functions , the strap is adjustable, fits any wrist, take advantage of such a favorable offer, a health bracelet for only uah 199, call if you have hearing problems, you cannot hear the interlocutor, we have a powerful solution and inconspicuous mega sound amplifier, call while the video is being broadcast and order at a special reduced price of only uah 399 , the mega device is placed inside

the auricle, and the small size and body the color makes it almost invisible the weight of the device is only 3 g, at the same time it boosts the volume up to 50 db now you won't miss a single sound you won't need to constantly interrogate your interlocutors annoy your loved ones with a loud sound miss phone calls the device works on a battery a convenient volume control will allow you to adjust the device just for you call while the video is being broadcast and order a mega sound amplifier at a special reduced price of only uah 399, a compact, inconspicuous and such a powerful mega sound amplifier let's talk about loved ones, they will appreciate it and hear you, call spotlight ukraine , a new project of the espresso channel, a project about war